Why does he refuse to talk about issues, even involving the kids? Why does he purposely make the little one cry herself to sleep to get back at me because I know he doesn't want her to? Why does he refuse to spend much time alone with his only son, even to get his hair cut? Why does he accuse me of refusing to discuss financial issues and try to take me to court because he says I won't deal with him directly, when he does not respond to my emails, when I tell him I'm willing to talk about it but he ignores me? Is he trying to make me hate him? I have not LB'ed at all, not at all, in months, and he gets more and more hateful. He gets furious about some issue, then drops it and never mentions it again, even if it is never resolved. The only thing that would make him happy would be for me to be willing to sign a joint divorce petition and request only the absolute minimum amount of child support legally required. They say that women often have financial security as a "need" - he has been angry with me off and on during the last 25 years when I wasn't contributing what he thought was enough financially, but if I ever worked late he got angry. I have been working at least part-time for all but four of the years we have been together, while raising six kids. Until about a year ago, I had been nursing and/or pregnant all but 16 months of the previous 19 years; I had at least one in diapers for 18 years. He got angry if I ever complained about him spending too much time away from home bowling or in other hobbies over the years (yes I am sure he actually was where he said he was), but except for school related meetings, I have gone out alone, without any children, maybe once a year. He told me that my actions always indicated that I loved him, that he has always been physically attracted to me; we shared the same family-oriented goals, many of the same political/philosophical beliefs. In the last few years, we have been spending more time together if anything, not less. I know that this is about him, I know he has been depressed, but why is he going out of his way to antagonize me, even if he has to hurt the kids to do so?<P>I am beginning to doubt that Harley's methods are the least bit beneficial. The nicer I am to him, and I have not been persuing him at all, the more he withdraws, the more he takes advantage of me. He is willing to talk to me about 5 minutes a week, less than one minute per child, all the while standing there with one hand on the doorknob, ready to run. This is co-parenting? Based on how angry he is at our daughter who is effectively in Plan B, I think it would make matters 100x worse. It would have been so much kinder for him to have shot me. My 9 year old told me she is never going to get married, and when I asked her why, she said maybe because then I won't have to get divorced.

By being nice to him you may be heaping coals on his head like Lor's counselor said.<P>Or he may be trying so hard to justify his miserable behavior, he has to manufacture negative things about you in his mind to live with himself.<P>Maybe he is covering his depression or confusion. <P>Maybe it is the only way he has to feel powerful and in control.<P>Just some suggestions...<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I have two ideas:<P>1) GUILT. He knows he is wrong - but does not want to admit it to himself - and it makes him angry that he feels guilty, because he wants so very much to be SELFISH and cold.<P>2) Antagonism. He wants YOU to be the bad guy, but you are not going there. So he must attempt to antagonize you and hurt you - his doing this through hurting his own children is an attempt to make you so angry with him that you will be the one who wants a divorce. Then it will be YOUR fault the marriage fell apart (well, he probably says it is already ...)<P>Dunno if this is helpful at all, but it was what came to mind. I wish you and your family weren't experiencing any of this awful "abuse" at the hands of someone who is supposed to love you ...<P>terri

Hi Nellie -<P>I have to completely agree with FHL and Terri.......<P>It's probably all those things.<P>Harley's stuff will work - just maybe not in our timeframe!!! <P>I'm sure you know most of my story and where I am at.....It's been well over 2 years with the infidelities and only since May that I discovered this place.<P>My H has done all you are describing and more....minus the children factor.<P>Anything to "get" me, and he would do it. And I mean anything!!!!! From big issues to how I walked and talked!!!! What I ate, etc. All of a sudden my very existence was a big annoyance!!!<P>It's the crazed mind of them in full blown fantasy......I firmly believe that and now that I've been apart from H since June - he has lightened up on that stuff somewhat.....Not Completely so I know that he is still in that fantasy, just not as all-consuming as it was.<P>Don't take all of the things he says and does so personally (which is not easy but will definitely help your sanity).<P><BR>Try to remember that in his fantasy he is trying to be Mr. Wonderful and Mr I Don't Listen to My Wife but only to you!! with the OW. That bubble will not last that long....not sure how long but certainly has to burst at some point.<P>I hope this helps some.<P>Hugs and You're in my Prayers,<P>Sheba

Sometimes I think he does feel guilty. Other times I think he is incapable of feeling guilt. <P>I think his "in-love" feelings for me started to go away in about 1.5 years - he has been seeing the OW for 11 months now, out of the house for 6-7. I worry that even when those feelings start to wane, he is going to feel either too guilty or too scared of being alone or admitting having made a mistake to break it off, unless she breaks it off. And apparently she doesn't like being alone either - otherwise why would she be desparate enough to answer a personal ad from a married man, especially one who has no money?

I'm not sure why they act this way. My H is home, and he's doing everything "right" with me, but now is so NASTY to the kids, and I think it's because I react so badly to it, I don't know Mother Bear instinct? But when he attacks the kids (verbally) it's me who gets crazy.....last night he discovered that my 13 yr old son took his bike apart....now first let me tell you I'm not pleased he took apart a two hundred dollar bike!!!!!But he started shouting and even said "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR KID!!!!HE SHOULD BE INSTITUTIONALIZED!!!"<BR>First, he OUR son.<BR>Second, I think this is all alittle harsh<BR>I told him afterwards, that I'm tired.....I'm SORRY that OUR kids are not angels like the OW kid, but OUR kids were angels when they were TWO TOO!!!<BR>Quite frankly, I think he's trying to get ME to be the bad guy in all this.....<BR>Darn it, someone has to stay calm while he's going crazy AT the kids, and then he gets angry at me......because I'm protecting them.....<BR>Now, to top off everything else, if I leave I'll be the bad guy (this doesn't bother me) but my son will think it's his fault because all our heated discussions are about him!!!<P>What to do????? I just don't know!

I agree with all the above. My H has a very sarcastic, ugly side to him which comes out on a regular basis. he can then turn right around and be the man I once knew. He also tends to have selective memory. I believe when they antagonize us, they want us to be the *****es they need us to be in order to justify their actions. It is sooooooooooo hard not to fall into the trap. My H has treated my son badly from time to time but NEVER our daughter. she has never done anything wrong, while our son seldom does anything right. I think he is jealous of our son. He is a good athlete, has good looks, has a good time and does the things my H never could do because he had to work all the time. I think all their problems go back years before they even met us.