Actually SC,

2Long, is just a sick sick man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Of course you have to be to do what he does for a living. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Of course the sad fact is our fields aren't that far apart. Sooooo, I'd better have a look in the mirror.

SC hang in there. Progress is really occuring, just with glacial speed. But, the globe is warming and those glaciers are starting to gallop down the mountains. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

JL:

I resemble that remark! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SC: I posted a joke on GQII that I got in the mail today. Check it out on "2of each: It's the Lord, Noah!"

Well this isn't exactly a joke ... but I'm going to misbehave this weekend!

This is the weekend of our annual sleepover "girls" night. We've all been friends since junior high .... and we get together once a year for a sleepover ... and we are BAD BAD BAD!

Our party is in the desert, in a home on a hill overlooking a valley ... the pool is warm, the spa is hot, the fire pit is lit.... there are no neighbors to spy on us .... and we act as nutty as we feel like!

We eat whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We drink whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We *smoke* whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
We wear whatever clothes we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We discard whatever clothes we don't want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We sing and dance however we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
And ... we do all of this wearing our tiaras <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~NO KIDS and NO MEN allowed!

I love life! I never want to grow up! Here's a toast to our silly sides!

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper:

"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~NO KIDS and NO MEN allowed!"

D***n!!! I lose on BOTH counts!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>
We eat whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We drink whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We *smoke* whatever we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
We wear whatever clothes we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We discard whatever clothes we don't want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
We sing and dance however we want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
And ... we do all of this wearing our tiaras <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohhhhhhhhh, MY!

Grown women misbehaving!
Make sure you bring back pictures!!!

Good evening Spacecase, I usually post on OW/OC board, but I started to lurk here and stumbled onto your posts. I don't have any jokes, but I just wanted to offer you support. I admire how you held on as long as you have. Your persverance deserves to be rewarded. I hope your wife comes out of her fog and sees what you have to offer. From where I am, you are too much of a prize to give up.
Hang tough man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TG

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Texasgirl:
<strong>...From where I am, you are too much of a prize to give up.
TG</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, my...TG! I think I'm in love! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I haven't heard words like that in.......well, forever!

Hi Spacecase. I am sorry I have not posted to you for a bit....I just wanted to say that I think you are doing so well, like all other posters have written. When I started reading this thread I was going to write to you- "STOP! Please, please please go to Plan B! I can't take it anymore! "it" being your wife totally manipulating you and waffling, taking advantage, etc. but when I saw what Dr. Harley said to do, well he knows a heck of a lot more than I ever will about all this, so..........
Argh. Until the 3 way talk, though, can you not talk your wife at all unless it's an absolute necessity? I really think that would help you AND her.

Libbie; Sure I can talk to her. What do you think we can say to each other now?

Spacecase: glad to see you're back!! So how exactly do you feel about what Steve said? Is Tuesday the last chance before (if) you got to Plan B?

SC, the skys have cleared, the bugs are bitting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

hope you are feeling better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi, GC!
How do I feel about it? I'm not sure. I was very frustrated by my W today. After what Steve told me the last 2 weeks, I expected SOMETHING that would at least indicate the beginnings of comprehension. But quite on the contrary, as you saw there was not one direct answer by her. Every question I asked was followed by a quetion by her; the classic indication of a completely closed/reserved person.

I mean this was meant as a talk that SHE initiated, that she had agreed with Steve to have with me, and she said absolutely nothing! I was almost forced to talk, she wouldn't answer anything!

When I emailed her and let her know Steve wanted to talk to both of us at once on Tues. she practically freaked! "Why?", "how come he wants that?", "what did he say?", clearly nervous and I know exactly why...because she was going to tell Steve that she did EXACTLY what she'd agreed to do, and that I had responded negatively. Then she could say, "see, I do what you want, but he's the one who doesn't want to go anywhere."

It's not the first time. All along when Steve asks her to do something, she does 10-20%, then comes back and says, "see, I do what you ask, an he's a brick wall!", bla, bla, bla....

I just ask one thing; what does she want us to do? and even that she's unable to answer...her only answer is I don't know, I need more time, no indication whatsoever of what it is she wants...nothing, just more time. It's been the saem from day one, always buying more time, lying to buy time, hiding the A to buy more time...but after 1 year (DDay was Aug 26/01) nothing has changed in her posture, or her progress in what she wants...just the status quo...I don't really know. And even more amazing, the A is effectively OVER! she can't visit him! Sure they can talk and write, but he's not going to put up with that! She KNOWS that, I've heard the calls where he BEGS her to come see him! That's always the theme of the calls; "When are you coming to see me?"

Sorry, I got carried away.

I will wait until Tues. have the call with Steve and her, and see what happens. I do not see any possibility of any change in posture from her, so likely we've just postponed full Plan B by a few more days. No big deal to me, frankly. I don't have to see or talk to her until then unless I want to (and I DON'T). The only difference is that when I do it, she'll ahve the letter that spells it out and I'll remove part of my financial support. And those will hit HER hard, they make no difference to me.

I'm OK. Just disappointed and dejected. It's unbelievable for me that the person I love like I do, and at least once loved me like that, can be SO calloused and insensitive to my feelings that she does not see the hurt she has caused and continues to cause by refusing to get the OM out of her life and at least comitting to work on our M. A M of 21 years (21st Anniv is Aug. 30)...and we'll be in Plan B then...so, so sad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>

Melodylane; Thanks for the thoughts! I did speak with Steve, posted it. He wants ONE more try Tuesday!

!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sheeesh! And they call *YOU*, Spacecase! I looked for a follow up post about your call with Steve and scrolled right over it! Bless your heart, you are impatient just like me so I can just imagine your frustration! I would be in sheer agony just having to wait. But I think Steve is right, it won't hurt to hold off until next Tuesday, you have waited this long, a couple more days won't make or break anything. Go kick the dog or something, Space! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sing:
<strong>SC, the skys have cleared, the bugs are bitting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

hope you are feeling better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am...Thank you for checking in...

What I meant was I think it would be good if you do not talk to her until that day of the 3 way discussion. I wasn't asking if you weren't allowed to talk to her- sorry!

Libbie; believe me, I have no intention of talking or seeing her until Tuesday's call. I don't have any need to. What we'll see is if SHE does...

I am quite content with my ex-pat life at the local extended stay, LOL!!!

Dear Space:

It is usually very dangerous but I have been thinking about SH 3 way discussion and his advice to hold on. Since he is talking to your W in probably a more open manner that you do with W, he may see that a ratcheting up of pressure is better than a big slam into plan B.

I think he will be able to either a) help get a breakthrough (I don't think it is likely) or b) show her that your shift to plan b is not revenge for the "talk" but a loving move to protect your love bank and allow for a rebuilding.

Just think of a plan B with the twins leaving to visit you and facing your W at home without you there. Your W knowing deep down after the meeting that her actions are keeping her childrens' father away from them (at least part of the time). I would not want that pressure on me, Space.

Regarding the interview, considering the outside pressure you are under you did incredible to get as far as you did. I will pray the other comes through.

Be strong (but cry when needed) and lean on us.

All my best to you.

Jack

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: willmakeitwork ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by willmakeitwork:
<strong>Dear Space:
I think he will be able to either a) help get a breakthrough (I don't think it is likely) or b) show her that your shift to plan b is not revenge for the "talk" but a loving move to protect your love bank and allow for a rebuilding.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you may be right. It'll be good for other reasons also; for one thing, I believe my W has consistently done only 10-20% of what Steve asks for, and then goes back to him and says "see, I do what you tell me and he's still doing the same things. I told you it's his fault" This will probably be the first time we both talk to Steve about a particular event together, and this previous behavior will not be possible.
And of course, Steve's intent for the meeting is to start from Step 1 all over again, on the phone with both of us, so he'll be able to see for himself what she does or does not do.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Just think of a plan B with the twins leaving to visit you and facing your W at home without you there. Your W knowing deep down after the meeting that her actions are keeping her childrens father away from them. I would not want that pressure on me, Space.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, she's going to be hit VERY hard by that. In addition, our older son will leave for college on Monday (with me BTW) and she REALLY misses him! She always hurts when he's gone; now it'll be even worse.
Besides that, she will have the letter where it's all spelled out and in black and white, which is far different from a mental recollection of hundreds of conversations and discussions.
And, of course, the economic impact will also hurt her, even though I am only "forcing" her to pay about $1000-$1200/mo in expenses and I'm carrying the rest.
But perhaps more than all of that, she will now REALLY feel and see how many things I DID do for her all these years that she's chosen to ingnore for so long!
Oh, Plan B's going to hit her very, very hard. She'll be kicking and screaming for weeks, I'm sure! And she'll probably send me a few insulting emails and calls! She'll be mad. No question.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Regarding the interview, considering the outside pressure you are under you did incredible to get as far as you did. I will pray the other comes through.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Needless to say, I was very disappointed. I mean they are looking for a very specific profile and skill-set, and I met 95% of it, except for the tenure...but the Project Lead said he wanted me on his team for sure, and is finding me a spot. So I hope he does.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
All my best to you.

Jack </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you, Jack. I do appreciate the support.

SC,

You have my deepest sorrow for your heartache today after all the work you did this week in your privacy thread. You put in so much effort and your courage in that thread was outstanding.

Here&#8217;s a thought&#8230;..

Imagine you just spent the last year weaving a precious piece of cloth for me. It was your first attempt at weaving so there are some imperfections in the finished product but it is beautiful none the less. You spent countless amounts of time pouring your blood, sweat and tears into it. One day, you come knocking on my door and offer me the cloth. But the first thing I say to you is &#8220;Why are you offering me this? Look at it&#8230;.it&#8217;s flawed. I don&#8217;t want it like this. Fix it and then I&#8217;ll consider accepting it.&#8221;

How would you feel? Not only have I crushed you but I&#8217;ve eliminated any possibility of happiness that I might have gotten out of you offering it to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SC: "Well, you need to end the R with the OM, and you need to demonstrate it in a credible way; we need to ensure that it stays that way, we need to set rules about what we do if say, he calls you again. We need to commit to total honesty with each other, and we need to commit to working on our marriage."

SC: I do not see any possibility of any change in posture from her, so likely we've just postponed full Plan B by a few more days.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I ask this age old question with the gentlest tone...would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?

Yes, you are right that she should end the R with OM. Yes, you are right that she should demonstrate that. Yes, you are right that she should be keeping no secrets from you because she should be trying to earn your trust again. Is being right making you happy?

If you dig way down in your heart, is there any chance you could just accept that there are flaws in the fabric of her character (as there are in each of us)? Much blood, sweat and tears has gone into the building of her fabric over the last year. Could it be that you and her both want the same thing now but she may not be strong enough to do the right thing yet?

Can you look past her flaws and love her exactly as she is today? Can you take the gamble that even if she&#8217;s not completely over the OM yet that maybe her perspective that HE is not the issue is the truth for her? He may be an issue for you still but maybe, just maybe, she's not talking fogese and it is her truth.

Is there any chance that you could find the &#8220;faith&#8221; to believe that you reap what you sow? Can you take the chance that &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221; might just be the best that she knows right now? Can you allow her to be exactly who she is today and trust that as soon as she feels that you love her, flaws and all, that her love for you will lose it&#8217;s fear to resurface. And then she may start reweaving parts of that fabric to make it even more beautiful for you, out of love FOR you not pressure FROM you.

For all the above to happen you&#8217;d just need to do one thing...change your perspective. Focus on what is good and what you love about her instead of what you want to change about her.

I read your privacy thread. And what I saw there was great strength, courage and wisdom on your part. I, for one, believe you absolutely have what it takes to be &#8216;happy&#8217; instead of right. And then you will reap what you sow.

E_C

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Extremely_confused ]</small>

Space,
Sounds like someone needs to invent a super fog blaster and send it your way.
I hope this doesn't sound strange but maybe getting upset and venting was good for you.
Sometimes I worry that you are so focused (which is good) that sometimes you forget about YOUR feelings. Sometimes everyone needs a good cry.
I hope your BBQ was yummy and good.
I hope you find something to do this weekend that makes you laugh. (I recommend the new Austin Powers)
I hope you feel more hope and less loss because God knows you deserve it sweety.
Thinking of you friend,
Layli