That makes a lot of sense, Pepper. The only thing I don't get is, while the feelings are real and you are in love at the time, but then when reality "rears it's ugly head" and everything is not what you thought, was it really love in hindsight? How can a love based on fantasy TRULY be live in the real life? That's what I am not wrapping my head around. I had only two serious relationships in my life before marriage and during the relationships I thought I loved them both. after the relationships ended I realized that I had not really loved them, I'd just WANTED to love them, liked the idea that I was "in love" and in a relationship.

Lib~~

I have 2 teens ... they fall in love constantly. Their feelings are real, it is "love" ... it is NOT mature lasting love.
Does this make sense?

It depends on what kind of love you are discussing.

My H's love for the OW was real ... in the sense of feeling intensity. My H's love for her was immature based on what it was based on .... more like adolescent love.

English language really needs a few different words for different types of love. One word does not cover all the posibilities.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Definitely agree there should be more than one word for love, or definition for it!

What does your FWH think of the OW now?

... because 'real' love is an ACTION... (Gary Smalley)

if you don't consistently PUT IN THE ACTION the feeling will fade...

... because you have to learn the love LANGUAGE that your spouse 'speaks.' Sometimes we miss them saying they love us, because we don't know their love language. (Gary Chapman and Gary Smalley both have books on this.)

The Harley's concept of the love bank also plays HUGE into this... if we don't make enough deposits into the 'old' love bank, we lose the 'feeling.'

We humans are a fickle lot.

Cali

"What does your FWH think of the OW now?"

He feels bad that he contributed misery to her life and the life of her H (his former friend) He thinks FOW is "an unhappy person" ... He and I both wish her and her H well.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Cali !

Mr. Pepper and I read a Gary Smalley book together early in our recovery. It helped aLOT !!! There was no internet in our home at that time, hence no MB for us .... that would have been so useful for us, but, oh well....

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I'm a WH who ended a seven month EA/PA in June. I certainly felt very strong feelings of love for the OW, to the point of considering terminating my marriage for the chance to be with her. But I had previous relationships with the OW when I was single and had strongly desired to marry her. She and I have a level of compatibility that is almost intense, but yet we have been unable to pull a committed relationship off.

And I was very fearful of the chance of having a successful marriage with her coming directly from the affair. So I was constantly trying to end the affair because I was very concerned about damage we could cause to the possibility of us getting together under better circumstances. But the OW acted on her feelings and I responded to those against my better judgment. And it all ended because I was not there for her when she expressed need for my emotional support and that she believed I had lied to her and deceived her. And I know just by the nature of the affair that it was true.

I tend to agree that the love we felt for each other was not healthy, because we put each other through significant emotional turmoil and I was constantly trying to distance myself from it. I believe that it is very true that the same things that cause the affair to happen end the affair eventually, in spite of very strong feelings and desires not to have that happen.

Hi Randys- I wonder if part of the intensity you had for her (and maybe intensity Ws and OP people feel for each other) IS because there is no commitment, like that makes it all the more free and exciting and illicit? I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

^^bump^^

To quote from a movie (Shallow Hal), "Your mind tells your heart who to love..."

I believe that IF a person THINKS they love someone and they truly believe it, who can argue someone else's truths???

If someone makes up their mind to "love" someone, they have their mind (& heart) made up. If it changes down the road, it still doesn't mean it wasn't real to them inside at the time...

We make decisions based on our current knowledge... as well as mistakes!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

No offense, but maybe it would be more truthful if fully recovered WS's said that they thought they were in love but realized they didn't know the first thing about true love? Because I think recovered WS's get to see true love FIRSTHAND in operation when the BS is working Plan A or Plan B to preserve THEIR love for the WS while the affair continues right in the BS's face...

I think that is true- in my WS case I think he loves what he sees in the OW- up until this point. Unfortunately I don't think he is seeing the whole picture of her- partly because she (like anyone who is in a new relationsip) only wants to show her best sides, and partly because he is seeing what he wants (the fantasy) and not necessarily what is there. Probably true for a lot of WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I really thought I loved ow until the last couple months of the affair. At first I thought
we had so much in common and that my wife and I were from different worlds. Ow and I were planning our lives out, and we could work out any differences, I don't understand how we were going to do that when we couldn't even work on our own marriages . I started having doubts about us when
I saw how jealous and bossy she was and she saw how set in my ways I am and all those other things we actually hated about each other.

After we broke up, all I could think about were the good times and not the awful. I felt so addicted, I felt like I could never love anybody
again. I thought a lot about just getting a divorce because I thought if I could love somebody
else that much then I really didn't love my wife
and didn't deserve her.

Great thread, very informative.

My wife has told me she is in love with OM. This is coming from a women who never has had a relationship last longer than a year, before we were married. She confuses love with passion like teenagers do.

Love is earned and grows through the battle of life with someone. Love comes from some of our darkest moments to guide us through the hard times.

On a side note and sort of a rant.......

IMO, the word "fog" which is used so much around here to describe WS is a bunch of bull. My STBX knew exactly what she was doing. She knew the pain it would cause all those that loved her. She left to start a new life. Starting a new life is easier than dealing with the consequences of your past mistakes. "FOG" in my book simply means avoiding responsibilty for your actions. Affairs are not a fantasy or a dreamworld, they are an excuse for not having the guts to be a mature adult. Sorry for the vent, but I beleived the "fog" idea for a long time. All it did was stop me from realizing my reality. It kept me holding on to dreams that were no longer possible. The belief in the "fog" syndrome really delayed my growth as a person worthy of a healthy relaironship.

So is it Real Love? I thought so. Yes, exciting, intense, hurtful, mutually self-deceptive, it was Christmas every day! And, I probably still miss it (hate to admit); though now realise the impractical and impermanent nature of it.
Were we 'soul mates', probably. Did we mean it all, Yes. Have we wrecked our lives? Yes, we wrecked 4 of them (plus my sons). I just hope that all (our two M) is/are not irretrievable.
Yet I wonder how she (OW) is/is coping! It is still like a huge self-denial, trying to fade. I wish it never had happened.
----------------------------------------------------
myself WH58,BW47,M 27yrs
2 sons 24,19
EA/PA with M co-worker from 10/99, OW42, left home 200 miles away 08/00-08/01, now with BH in recovery (?)
I left home for 15 months 01/01, but never lived with OW, not seen OW since 05/01;
01/02 recovery started, v hard but getting there…. Hoping all the grief will fade.

I agree pretty much with Sapdon.

For me, it never got to the stage where the bubble burst and the reality started to kick in, this is probably why I'm struggling now - I wish I had the chance to see OM in a bad light and go off him quicker!!!!!!!

Of course, the rational part of me agrees with everything else - it was deceitful, not real, passion only, not based on true life etc. etc.

A hard call....

I saw a great quote on this subject last night. Margaret Anderson wrote:

In real love, you want the other person's good.
In romantic love, you want the other person.

That really applied to my H's affair. I don't know about others, but I think it's pretty accurate. To me, affairs are more about getting what YOU want than worrying about the other person. My H was willing to ruin her marriage, her H's business, etc. and I think if you really loved somebody, you wouldn't do those things.