OK guys, think plan a has bit the dust. OW is in hospital so today WH picks up phone to call and check on her. As he is getting off the phone, he says it.
OK, I get upset and leave for awhile. Come back and he is angry at me for being upset. I tried to tell him exactly the way Dr Harley advised. In a calm voice I say, "It hurts me that you are still in contact with her and it hurt to hear you tell the woman you are having an affair with I love you."
He didn't get it. He felt justified in being angry at me.
I said, should I just move out?
No.
Why do you want me to stay?
Because it would be weird.
Weird how?
Us not living together.
So in my best plan a voice, I try to get him to talk. All the while he is still playing his game and chatting with a friend he hasn't heard from in awhile on the game.
I say, don't you think it is more important to talk things out?
No, I just want to play the game.
Why?
(Little history on this next part)
One of the guys he played with all the time committed suicide and he found out tuesday.
"I don't deal with death well and the girl I am talking to I haven't talked to in a few weeks and the last time we talked she was raped and almost killed and it scares me that people I have feelings for could die and I wouldn't even know it."
To which I reply, "What about people in this room that you have feelings for that need you?"
No response.
It is over. I am filing tomorrow and as soon as I get home I am moving his stuff out of our bedroom. I can't take dealing with this insanity. He is a child who just wants what HE wants. I asked him what he thought we could have done to make things better, his come back was his only regret was not telling me sooner. I found out about a week after they "confessed" their love for each other.
Screw it all. I am going to go off the deep end and I don't care about plan B. Why should I subject myself to the mixed messages and getting my hopes up.
I guess secretly I am hoping someone can offer something to make me not give up.
Please get back to me soon, I am dying here guys.
Layli

Layli,
All I can say by way of encouragement is that the immediate after shock of these kinds of incidents makes us crazy--mostly I think because of the utter and complete lack of empathy on WS's part for us. Here we are doing everything to try and build things back up, and they are deliberately hurting us. I had a similar incident and decided the next day (after a major LB--so you did great!) that I had to begin Plan B. Who knows where we will end up, if he will ever see the light. But I am plan B'ing because I don't want to have major regrets that I didn't try everything I could.

I don't know your story and have to get off the computer, but I know just how you feel and I am sorry that you are going through this. Know that you are not alone and that there is someone out there praying for you and hoping you have strength to hang in there.
Anne

Thanks so much ann. I have spent the night bending my best friends ear on it all and I have decided to prepare seriously for plan B.
I am going to wait until our next sessions with Steve, but after that I think it's adios for Layli for awhile. H4f told me on my last thread plan b would probably be the only thing to cause him to wake up. Now I agree.
Thanks again,
Hugs,
Layli

Oh, L, I can't believe he did that! Just FOG, FOG, FOG! Insane, I know!

I know it all seems so hopeless, and when the anger and frustration are present, we often just want to chuck it all! Been there.

I wish I could offer real hope or somehting you can hold onto, but I can't. Only to try to stay calm, and think things through when you've cooled off.

You've come a long way, and being able to not LB under those circumstances proves it! I'd have had difficulty doing that. Lost it for much less!

You've put a lot of work into this and into yourself, and you owe it to yourself to try to see it through. Plan B may be the option you need to remove yourself from such abuse and pain. And I think he'll feel it; said so himself.

Try to hang on, Layli. It may be worth the effort.
Big hug!

layli,

I am sorry that the one you love is treating you so poorly, but to not even stop playing or chatting while you are trying to talk about something so important is pretty sad and says a lot about where your WH is emotionally.

IMHO I would say go Plan B, don't think that there is much else left for you to do.

Are you still living with his family? Can you move out on your own? I know that the Southgate garden apartments there are studios for only $300 something a month and are furnished, is that something you could do?

I really don't know what hope it is I or anyone can give you til your WH comes out of the fog or off the game screen. It is sad that the friend committed sucide, get over it. Heard the song and dance routine of the "friend" having been raped and needing support. He is not the person to give her that support at this time.

I can and will pray for you when I go to bed in a few, other then that I can offer you my opinion but will not tell you what you should do that is something that you have to decide for yourself!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Layli...hon...I wish you wouln't file right away. I know he's really really confused and lost...but did you hear what he said? He DOESN'T not want YOU. That's more than my H got from me. I ASSURED INSISTED AND DEMANDED that I no longer wanted him and he needed to get on with his life.

You have every right to be upset and hurt...HOWEVER...

You aren't currently sending clear signals. Now, I realize ANY IDIOT would get that you don't like how he's treating you, he's acting inappropriatly for a married man, and you will not take this indefinatly. But he isn't any idiot...he's a WS...and worse yet he's a MAN!! (sorry...just a little man bashing humour...you know I don't really mean it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) To him, you're simply informing him you don't like what he's doing...then you turn around and treat him like a king and continue to take what he dishes out. Definatly not clear.

Stand behind what you've previously said to him...move to Plan B and maintain no contact without proof to back up any promises. Help him get it!!

(((((((((((((Layli))))))))))))

Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. My WS has told OW he loves her in front of me several times now - the first was on D-Day, when I overheard him not only telling her that he loved her, but how he could not wait to touch her face and kiss her lips and make love to her - ouch!!! Now, after 5 months, we are at the point where he has told me that if we are going to continue our marriage, I have to accept that he is going to remain in contact with OW and that she will be a part of his life for the rest of his life (short though it may be if he keeps this up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> - Just kidding!)

Do not file just yet - talk to Steve and see whether it is time to Plan B.....sounds like it just might be. We have a joint meeting with both ur C's today, after which I will probably be doing same......

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WS-43
DS-10 months
Status: Lost in the fog.

Thanks so much to you guys for responding.

Spacecase- Thanks for your words of encouragement. It meant a lot knowing the trials you are facing at this time. I showed mt friend your thread and pictures last night. On the not LB-ing, looking back i might have lb'd once. I tried to keep saying I knew he was confused and that I have been trying really hard to make friends and family see his side also so they would support and help him. He mentioned he thought it was funny that I went from not wanting anyone to know about A to 3 hours later all our friends and family knew. I told him I was sorry but I was confused and scared and wasn't in the frame of mind to ask him who I could talk to to get support. That was probably an LB.

Daybreak- I am trying to find a home I can rent with my best friend Lance. I have 4 cats and no apts in area will take them. I also have to send my elderly mother 400 dollars a month to help support her so I can't afford much. Plus I am scared to move out with friend. Lance was my friend I would hang out with when WH was unavailible due to game. Lance is gay so I didn't see a problem. I had mentioned in an earlier talk while trying to atone for what i might have done to create a situation for his affair that maybe I let Lance fill some of my EN's instead of coming to hubby with those needs. I am afraid that WH will see this as a threatening environment to move back to with Lance there. My brothers have refused to help out my Mom so I am stuck there.

Hope-I showed Lance your posts to me last night, he agreed with all of them, said you were a smart lady. Even the tough stuff you have said is starting to sink in and make real sense. I will wait to file until I talk to Steve. I guess I misunderstood plan A. I thought treating him nicely in spite of everything would help. Guess I will have to check with Steve to see what I am doing that is wrong.
Brit's brat- Sounds like your situation is 10 times worse than my I love you episode. How strong you are.
Last night when I returned from my friends, WH was being very nice. I haven't been able to log on to the site from my computer and he was more than willing to help me figure it out. I ended up being up, throwing up all night. Can't hold anything down, even water. My head is pounding and I called into work. WH forgot to reset the alarm when he woke me up at 4am. He woke up late for work and yelled at me. I swear I didn't touch the alarm and the one time I got up, when he was supposed to be up it was get to the bathroom, throw up, get a cool washcloth and climb back into bed. So I am the bad guy still.
Our anniversary is wednesday, I am unsure about how to continue with him, in this house, until our appointments and until I move out. Please help me, I don't know what to do and it seems like what I am doing is just encouraging him and making an [censored] out of myself.
I am poised on the brink of a huge scary depression. I know being depressed and despondent in fromt of him every day will probably only make things worse. I don't know what to do. I have never felt so lost and unfocused. And I can't keep missing work and hope to have money to move out. I have an appt with dr tomorrow about anti depressants but I am worried about side effects. Due to everything that is going on, just found out I am diabetic, the medication from that is causing my hair to fall out in clumps, worrying about everything I have a bleeding ulcer and I can't eat so my meds are making me sick when I can hold them down.
I know it sounds like I am throwing myself a big pity party. I am trying not to and I know there are people in the world suffering way worse than I am. I just can't help it. Sorry to bother you guys when you all have so many bad things to deal with already.
Thanks for your support. It means everything to me right now.
Hugs back,
Layli

PS Just read the acceptance is not thread. It helped me understand a little where I wen wrong in the plan A dept.
Thanks for that thread all who posted, it was very insightful.
Layli

"I don't deal with death well and the girl I am talking to I haven't talked to in a few weeks and the last time we talked she was raped and almost killed and it scares me that people I have feelings for could die and I wouldn't even know it."
To which I reply, "What about people in this room that you have feelings for that need you?"

He is dealing with death and rape! He wanted you to understand, give him a hug... Instead your response was very selfish, as if saying "I am more important than your friends's death ... me, me, me".

Ok in response to the last post, once he explained things I said fine and we decided to talk today. What you don't know is I ALWAYS come in second to hie friends on the game.
I have tried to talk with him about his friends death, I haven't minimized what he is dealing with in the slightest. What we were talking about at the time was important, if you have read any of my previous posts you would definately understand that I have been putting MY needs on the back burner for quite some time, most of our marriage, and after he explained having a hard time dealing with his friends death, I dropped it and let him go on with his conversation. I refuse to justify feeling bad for that and maybe you need to get the whole picture before you pass judgement on me.
Layli

Layli, I cant help but notice that... he is younger.. perhaps very immature here... I am sorry for your hurt andpain.. and I am thinking of you... I know.. how hard it is.. my ws is 35- but acts... 12.

I am so sorry we are both here.. go out and get a manicure or something great for you today , OK?

Hugs, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Honey,
Thanks so much for posting. I have a migraine due to yesterdays stress and unfortunately have spent most of the day as I will the rest of it in bed. Maybe tomorrow will look a little brighter? Who knows.
Thanks sweety, you keep your chin up too.
Layli

Oooh Layli you self centered egotist! NOT!!!

Relate, Layli's H didn't want to talk to her because he's well aware his actions are not appropriate for a 27yr old married man. He justified his desire to avoid the conversation Layli was trying to start with the problems of his internet friends. I'm quite certain that at 27 he was aware of the horrors of this world such as rape and death. While it is most certainly more traumatic when it happens to someone you know...he doesn't seem to hold the same sympathy for his own wife whom he is inflicting deep pain upon through his own actions. So no offense but I totally disagree. If he wants a hug he'd better start taking better care of the REAL people in his life instead of this fabulously free cyber game life he lives in most of the time.

Layli, well...it might amuse you that this tough chick totally lost it in front of some customers today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> A storm popped up out of nowhere and welcomed itself with a HUGE blast of lightening. I was on the other side of the room before I even realized I was reacting. My adrenaline was pumping a mile a minute. I scared the customers worse than the lightening did <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then they started asking me if I needed a bag or an inhaler...evidently I wasn't breathing at that point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> and....then I broke down in to tears. Well gee...ya think they'll be calling me next time they have computer problems??? They'll probly just go out and buy a new computer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> How embarassing....

Anyhoo...it's not that you haven't been Plan A'ing right...not at all!! Plan A is about regaining your own personal strength, and also about showing your spouse you are aware of your part in the marital break down and can and are willing to change that. You've done that!! So you've succeeded!! Plan A sometimes does bring the WS out of the fog...but more often than not it makes them quite comfy with the idea of having both. That's where you're hubby is. It's not that he's a worse WS than most or that he loves you any less...he's just very comfortable with the way things are.

So Plan B is about protecting your remaining love...which will fade quite quickly if you don't get away soon!..and about waking up the WS to the fact that YOU get a choice in all this mess too. They/we often forget that little fact. It doesn't play in to the master plan very well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So take care of you however you need to. If you can talk to Steve before you go that would be great...if you need to get out ASAP then do that! Have you thought of writing a Plan B letter? If you have, or do, post it in a new thread and you can get some great critiquing to help it give the real effect you want it to.

Hang in there!!! ((((layli))))

Oh H4f what would I do without you girl?
I was so happy to see you come charging to my defense I almost cried. You are so wonderful.
Well, I think i can hang tight, WH's appt with Steve is in one week, mine is for the friday after his. So less than 2 weeks. I am going house hunting over the weekend. I have explained to my friend that we need to find something that he can handle if in the future WS wants to return and I need to get a place with him alone.
I hope that doesn't make me a terrible friend. My friend actually agreed and said it made him feel better about getting the house.
I had asked earlier in my thread if this was a wise decision, being that this friend helped meet some of my EN's, is a guy, but he is gay. Sometimes I worry that WH is threatened by friendship. Plus I forgot to tell you, last night before our discussion ended, I said I had been looking at houses because it was something I needed to do for me, to get my independence back. Not independence from her per say but from living with in laws. He finished what I was going to say by saying, "I know, you lived on your own for 10 years before we got married."
I asked him if he felt like he had failed me because we had to live with his parents?
He said, Yes a lot.
I told him while I liked living on our own, our circumstances have just prevented it from happening sooner. I never blamed him and acknowledge that sometimes when I would harp on him about getting another job after our wreck it may have made him feel like that and I was sorry if it hurt him but it wasn't intended to.
Sometimes I feel like no matter how much I repent so to speak, my mistakes are constantly going to keep biting me in the [censored].
Thanks for listening.
BTW miss computer lady, the only computer I can't log on to MB from is mine. It works fine on any other computer. Any suggestions?
Thanks for backing me up hon, I really needed your post.
Hugs to you,
layli

"I hope that doesn't make me a terrible friend. My friend actually agreed and said it made him feel better about getting the house."

A terrible friend??!! I think being a terrible friend would be if you got a big fancy house that the two of you could afford with the understanding your marriage was over...and THEN ditched him! That's actually happend to me before! I think you're remaining hopeful, and being realistic as to future possibilities.

As far as your H being threatened by your relationship with Lance...GOOD! There's NOTHING wrong with you having some EN's met and maybe a little jealousy on H's part will pull his head out of his butt. His embarassment over you living with his parents evidently doesn't run deep enough for him to do something about it. It sounds to me like another justification for feeling sorry for himself.

"Sometimes I feel like no matter how much I repent so to speak, my mistakes are constantly going to keep biting me in the [censored]."

Well, it's pretty typical for a WS to use all the ammo they can against you so that you feel guilty and take the blame for any marital issues. I did that...and the old ammo was the best because there wasn't a damn thing H could do about it. If at all possible don't take it personally...it's all part of the "game" of infidelity.

"the only computer I can't log on to MB from is mine."

Meaning it won't take your password or what? You can get to the website, right? I dunno...I might hang up my hat as local computer geek and apply for the position of town crier, LOL!!

"I don't deal with death well and the girl I am talking to I haven't talked to in a few weeks and the last time we talked she was raped and almost killed and it scares me that people I have feelings for could die and I wouldn't even know it."
To which I reply, "What about people in this room that you have feelings for that need you?"

quote: ‘He is dealing with death and rape! He wanted you to understand, give him a hug... Instead your response was very selfish, as if saying "I am more important than your friends's death ... me, me, me". ‘

You are kidding right????

It hardly sounds like he wanted her to understand… he wanted an excuse to not pay attention to his wife’s needs. And I suppose that he only wanted his Layli to understand that he loves the OW and the Layli only selfishly wants him to not love the OW and not continue contact?

Here is a man giving more care to the OW and his faceless internet game friends then to his wife. There is a problem. He has no business giving support to the OW in the hospital and to a woman on the internet. His wife is his business the others are not. Note how distraught he was. He was chatting with the game friends AND PLAYING A GAME. Now there’s a really torn up person. The suicide and the rape were just a smoke screen to explain why he feels ok to hurt and ignore his wife.

Plan B sounds like a good way to handle this.

Zorweb said it well!

Who the heck is this person...defending your H for continuing contact with OW?

Circumstances, schmircumstances, it was blatantly inappropriate!

("relate", maybe you need to read up on MB principals)

BW

Layli, Keep the chin up.. ifyou can. I understand about missing work and depression... I had antid's and later lost my insurance and now I do not have anti d's... som e days I feel ok, some I dont... all and all.. some days I just feel I cant take it anymore... The anti d's prob. help.. if you can get them, get them.

This is a hard time for me too, just wanted you to know you arent alone... too bad you are not in houston, we could go to lunch today!

Hugs, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hope-I like the town crier thing. It was a funny story but had I been in your shoes I would have been mortified also. I also liked what you said about the old ammo thing. It makes sense. Yesterdays was so strange, it was almost as if nothing had happened. He came home from work, made me some soup and told me to relax while he made himself dinner. Many I love you's and blowing kisses at me across the room. I stayed mellow and highlighted the last of SAA. Ready to finish his needs her needs.
The only chink in my plan is MB called this morning to reschedule his appt on Monday. He was late for work so he got the call. He explained that it was the only day that worked into his schedule. After he went to work I called MB and begged them to find room for him, his next holiday is the middle of OCT and I don't feel as though asking him to take of work early for C would work. If I have to, I'll try, don't know if I can hold out until OCT. I don't even know if he will still be here in OCT. I really want him to talk to Steve before I leave.
Lance called last night, I was supposed to go over to his house. WH paid really close attention to call and after I hung up asked me who it was. Just said I was supposed to drop a script off to Lance for his input. (Lance and I are budding screenwriters, have a few projects being looked at.) Thanks so much for your support H4F, it is invaluable because it is from the WS perspective. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for it.
Zorweb-Thanks so much for the support. I was worried I was being wrong at lambasting that person for the selfish comment. Having you guys back me up has made me feel way better.
BW-Thanks to you also for the support.
Honey-I have a Dr's appt today and I am going to ask about a new Anti-depressant I read about called lexapro, it is similar to celexa but has fewer side effects. WH is going to appt with me so I won't be able to update dr on my dilema but I think asking for the med's will be some indication. You know I have a friend in Houston that works for cysco, planning a trip soon and I am going to try to make it coincide with one of you guy's lunches. Thanks for your continued support.
Hugs to all,
Layli