All,

I am not in desperate circumstances by any means compared to the issues many of you are dealing with. My H and I are both in counseling with SH and really doing well in recovery. The saying that this is "simple" in principle but "difficult" in living is accurate in our circumstance.

I would love to have your feedback to the letter I will probably read to H tonite at our "feedback on meeting ENs" appointment. The emotion has been building up inside me and I don't trust my perspective!!

H,

This is difficult for me, but necessary especially since we have both listed Honesty & Openness as our #1 EN.

To refresh my memory I have written the MB definition as follows: Honesty & Openness (revealing positive and negative feelings, events of the past, daily events, and schedule, plans for the future; not leaving a false impression; answering questions truthfully and completely).

What I am being honest and open about is that I am seeing how difficult it must be for you to refrain from making deposits in other women’s LBs. What I am not sure of as I try to process this is whether this is related to the weakness of having A’s that you need to protect yourself from; or if this is something totally separate.

Regardless, when I observe you making deposits into other women’s LBs it’s a huge withdrawal from my LB. I know we have not discussed Love Busters with each other because as SH says, the hope is that as we continue to become experts at meeting each other’s needs the Love Busters would take care of themselves. My concern is that this one however it is defined will not take care of itself.

It seems to be either engrained behavior; or the payoff to you is so great it is a need that is more rewarding to you to be filled by other women. Regardless, it is important that I learn to be open and honest in communicating to you how painful this is for me to observe.

Recently it has taken form in 2 ways.

The first one being your continuing behavior to invite Jane Doe into our life in new ways.

What I need is for Jane Doe to be compartmentalized at best in as small of a compartment as you can possibly make; instead of inviting her to participate in our life at new levels. There have been too many boundaries breached and she has been over involved in our lives for me to develop a comfort level of any sort with her. Your mutual intoxication I have observed in the past makes her a danger to our marriage.

I am sad about this because I like her too and I know how much she can help us out with the new project. But what I can’t change is the pain I have felt as a result of actions on your part in the past that puts Jane Doe in a category of someone you have to “protect” yourself from in the definition of MB. As you have said in the past, you can see why I might have thought you and Jane Doe have or have had an affair, and that you have thought her interest in you for a personal relationship was great. I would like to suggest that based on these issues that she is a continuing threat to our marriage.

The second example of my observation of you making deposits into another’s women’s Love Bank was yesterday with Judy Doe. Her name has also come up as someone you have demonstrated skill in meeting emotional needs. We have also discussed how she responds to your deposits and makes deposits back to you.

It was painful for me to see you rush to her car to help her with the baby yesterday; then as I am trying to process the boys in to the go-cart track; you’re back at the door talking to her. I felt like I had to drag you away from her in order to get the throngs of children moving.

I am probably “over-sensitive” to these women. This could change as time goes on and we learn and grow through MB. But at this time, it honestly hurts badly, and causes major withdrawals from my Love Bank.

As you know I have been processing issues in my head that I have been unable to discuss recently. It seems to take time for me to translate my experiences into MB principles. My hope is that with practice I will become more proficient in communicating these to you.

I would love to have your thoughts on the above.

End of letter!

What do you all think? Any love busters in there? I used some phrases that Bramble posted awhile back. They are "I am uncertain", "I'd like to suggest to you", and "What are your thoughts?". Are there any others that you can see I can use?

Thanks, CSue

Csue,

Love Busters are in the eye of the beholder. I don't think the letter will give your H "warm fuzzies", but I do think it is honest, and I really like the fact that you gave him some specific examples of what is bothering you.

It seems to me a good letter. It is concise, it explains what your issue is, you give examples, and you really don't accuse him of anything directely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I say it should do the job it is intended to do. Go for it.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thanks, for your response. I feel like I have come a long way since I first found MB. I also have an idea of my limitations which is why I knew I needed to write down what I feel vs shooting from the hip!

What I would like to understand at some point is whether his weakness for having an A is a separate issue from what SH has described as my H's ability to advertise the ease in which he communicates his ability to meet women's typical top ENs.

Part of H's recovery plan was to temper his talent in this and concentrate becoming an expert on my ENs. We don't have an appt with SH for another couple of weeks and it's causing me such new anxiety I had to throw this letter out to the forum for all of you to review!

Thank you, I have always found your advice impeccable! CSue

<small>[ September 04, 2002, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,

Thanks, for your thoughts! I'm curious if you feel that using the MB terminology sounds inflamatory?

My H is the one who introduced me to MB, and it was his reading of HNHN that convinced him that he needed to tell me about his A.

He is on board whole heartedly with MB being the way to go and he has completely embraced SH's advice through counseling. Knowing this do you still think I should take out MB terminology?

Thanks, CSue

^^^^^
bump!

CSue,

My $.02 -- I like the MB terminology. One of the primary reasons I like it is because it is less "personal" language. These are principles that someone else has defined and by using them, I think it is easier to give and receive feedback without it becoming an personal attack. By using a term such as LB, instead of saying you were hurtful, mean, unkind, ticked me off, etc., you are able to get the same message across without a personal attack.

Also, since your H has really embraced the MB principles, it will be in language you understand.

FHO

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FormerHopelessOne:
<strong>CSue,

My $.02 -- I like the MB terminology. One of the primary reasons I like it is because it is less "personal" language. These are principles that someone else has defined and by using them, I think it is easier to give and receive feedback without it becoming an personal attack.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FHO - You don't come by very often and I have missed your perspective! What you're saying above is exactly what I am hoping for. By using the MB terminology I am hoping he'll respond in the new ways we are learning not in the old ways that didn't work. We had our regular feedback session last night and it got late so I didn't have the discussion that the letter entails.

We have had a few issues come up recently and we haven't handled them as well as we could have. And the same old pattern emerges. He LBs and I withdraw. What is different is now when we retreat, we regroup quicker and use the MB principles and try it again. So since I am the one with the issue I wanted to start out applying the principles from the start to see if we can have a successful discussion from the start.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By using a term such as LB, instead of saying you were hurtful, mean, unkind, ticked me off, etc., you are able to get the same message across without a personal attack.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, since your H has really embraced the MB principles, it will be in language you understand.]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know he really has. We're seeing such benefits from communicating with what we've learned. I had a rare anxiety attack yesterday and did what I've done in the past which is go to H's work and talk with him. It has been quite a while since I have felt this way; I am sure it's because I need to discuss this with him.

He feels such remorse about the A and that it can cause such anxiety in my still even though rare. I hate to say it; but it gives me comfort to see the remorse. It's reassuring.

I felt so much better after seeing him. I feel 99% sure that he's on-board with our relationship and is willing to do whatever it takes. I'll feel even better if our discussion this evening goes well. Thanks, for you help! CSue

<small>[ September 04, 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,

Thank you,

H & I talked last night, it was our normal feedback session. That part went a little rough, so I didn't read my letter at all.

I looked at it a few times to reference the "Judy" Doe person to make sure I didn't miss any relevant points. I left out the MB terminology which made it sound more from the heart and nicer.

It wasn't the greatest discussion because H is at the place where he is feeling great remorse. I also don't have a good history of telling him when his actions cause me pain; I just withdrew instead. So he isn't accustomed to hearing this sort of feedback.

Since this portion of the discussion seemed to be so hard for him to hear I didn't discuss the rest. It appears as if I need to do some more thinking; and I should probably review this with SH before I say anything more to him.

I did have a good day of making deposits in his LB. It's part of the plan SH had me right. So H and I ended up having a nice lunch that I surprised him with. Thanks for you advice! CSue

CSue, I wish I could contribute here, but mostly I lurk, read and learn, so that perhaps IF my W and I reach this point, I'll have your valuable perspective.
But I did want to let you know I'd been by. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Space,

Thanks for stopping by. It just goes to show you that even with both of us trying to work on the M, it's difficult at times. We're trying to re-write the rules of our M and learn how to play the MB way.

I'm finding out alot of the finer points about re-learning our relationship with the guidance of SH. One of H's particular problems that I still don't know if it's related to his weakeness of affairs, is his ability to draw women like bees to honey.

Who wouldn't enjoy the thrill of being good at that I suppose. And it didn't bother me as much prior to d-day.

So now trying to focus on the behaviors that cause me pain. And cause him pain to hear about.
It could be that this is part of the addictive quality to his weakness.

Hope you're doing ok!! Thanks, CSue

CSue;
Are U OK? Haven't seen you around for a while...