Pepperband: Thank you for the hugs and confirmation on the babble, obviously I fall on deaf ears, he has cetainly done a 180 since this weekend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Merentha:
[Something has him second guessing himself. My guess is it's not all roses in OWland, no matter what fogtalk he spouts.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He told me things weren't perfect, they had their own issues, probably mostly because he has not pursued the divorce?? Who knows??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>If you remove yourself; the Crutch, as he called you,he will falter, probably fall over.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope so, the pit is bottomless.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>I knew it was true when the fog talk vanished. No more "if we can work this out maybe i'll move home".

His words were: I am going to be the husband you deserve, I screwed up, here's my passwords, here's my cell bill, I am moving home in a month with your permission, I'll do whatever you need. No contact letter? No problem.

Then he did everything he said he was going to do.

Night and day difference in his tone, his attitude and his actions.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He did tell me that, this weekend, he wanted to make this marriage work, maybe he got freaked when I started stating my boundaries, and if he did in that case, no, he is not ready, I want a husband, not someone that i always have to wonder about. It really did feel different this time. the past couple of times it felt like I was "lucky" to have him back. He expressed remorse, apologized many times, told me he loved me, how he felt a cloud had been lifted off of him. My gut feeling is that the OW contacted him with some lovey email or something.

HurtInTexas: What is your experiences during the fog clearing, how did you know, how did you treat him, how did he react during withdrawal??

KK2002: thank you so much for your thoughts and prayers, mine are with you as well!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> You can't 'cure' him, only he can do that for himself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are right, he is ultimately responsible for his own decisions, me nor OW can do it for him, if only he knew that if he continues this path of distruction he will never be happy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>Well, he's far, far gone from reality right now, so...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if i had a clue myself, I would answer that question

(((((((((gc)))))))))

From what I see, its his loss. I say plan-B and take care of you.

don't cheat yourself - treat yourself.

h2bp

WH just canceled his appointment with Steve, will only talk to therapist chosen by his mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

GOING CRAZY - Don't talk to him or very soon you will be true to your name. You do not need to be put through this crap anymore - let him take care of himself and see what happens - In my case I just had enough and didn't want to play limbo anymore - he wanted a divorce so I am giving him one - I am not happy about but I cannot change his feelings I can only take care of me and my children - Good Luck - Definate Plan B

detach * detach * detach

Non-stop anger and non-stop pain is lousy for your immune system.

What he does .... who he sees... what he thinks / feels / eats / throws up / poops out is NOT your concern right now.

Go look into a mirror and say OUT LOUD to the woman you see looking at you:

" I LOVE YOU ! I will take care of YOU."
Do this everytime you think about WH ...

I am serious ... every time you think of him .... go to the mirror and talk to her ....

SHE needs you !!!!!!!! Don't think I'm joking.

If you don't do this .... I'm gonna whack you with the same *waffle bat* I used on hcii
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Going Crazy,
I am thinking of you today, my dear. Prayers and hugs, and sympathies.
Take care of yourself.
Sounds like Plan B is definite for you!
He will be losing so much, hopefully this will make him see that.
KK

Why in the hell did he move all that **** to your house if he was going to pull this?? Tell him you want that crap out NOW, you are not a storage facility!

I feel so bad for what you are going thru, here's a big hug {{{{{GC}}}}}

I'd love to see what her family thinks of him once they learn the truth too. They don't know the real him, only the act he puts on.

Going Crazy,

I'm not sure when he came out of the fog. I wasn't around as I was deeply in Plan B. He just started calling me and taking responsibility for what had happened and asking me to come back. When I turned him down was when I think he really started to "get" it. He'd always assumed that I would always be there. That I'd just sit around waiting for him.

Actually, I was dating an extremely attractive man who younger than my WH. When WH found out about that I think he realized that his time was growing short before he lost me completely. HE started to Plan A with a vengeance.

Your WH sounds so much like mine was. Let that give you some hope. Sometimes they DO come out of the fog.

Something else that I noticed was that when I stopped trying to get him back, OW started dropping the perfect woman act. WH finally started to notice that she was no where near as good as I was to him.

Sounds to me like backing off and going to Plan B is your best course of action right now.

Hang in there! Feel free to email me at suzpreuss@yahoo.com

Hope you are having a better day today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If I could be there to help you move his stuff into the garage, I would!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Remember, look after yourself now. It doesn't matter what councellor the "mama's boy" visits, it's his choice. It's time to stop worrying about him, there's nothing more you can do right now. Just a suggestion ... if you can afford it, go to the spa for a day and pamper yourself.

One more piece of advice. No matter how badly your WH behaves, no matter what he says or does, take the high road.

Resist the urge to retaliate or "screw him over" to get even. This will blow up in your face every time. Do the right thing no matter how hard it is.

I learned this through experience. WH was stealing money from my account to buy gifts for OW, hiding his income from me, not paying child support, etc. He actually sat by and watched as I lost my job, had to pawn all my jewelry to buy food, lost both my cars and eventually my house. All the while, living it up with OW.

I never tried to screw him, even though legally I certainly could have. I did the right thing every time and now he sees that. I proved to him that I was the woman he always thought I was.

And of course, since the relationship with OW has ended he has really seen her true colors. She has tried everything to screw him including cut off his cell phone, steal his golf clubs and other stuff, drove her car through the garage door before she left, etc. While they were together she was gambling and even stole money from his business to finance her habit.

Sticking to my morals and values and doing what I KNEW was the right thing really paid off.

KK2002 - I need to ask a question, my WH also has an apartment, he got it 7-1-02 when he told me he wanted to "get away to think". He confessed on 7-19-92 that he was involved in an affair for 1 year. Now he says he wants to come home, but still stays at apt when works late. Do you feel you can trust your WH when he is in a apt? My WH say a male co-worker is going to take over lease, but I am not sure I am ready for him to move home full time? Just say your signature and thought I would ask.

<small>[ August 30, 2002, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: copswifebetrayed ]</small>

KK2002 - I need to ask a question, my WH also has an apartment, he got it 7-1-02 when he told me he wanted to "get away to think". He confessed on 7-19-92 that he was involved in an affair for 1 year. Now he says he wants to come home, but still stays at apt when works late. Do you feel you can trust your WH when he is in a apt? My WH say a male co-worker is going to take over lease, but I am not sure I am ready for him to move home full time? Just say your signature and thought I would ask.

going_crazy - Just a question based on something you said previously. I assume that the OW is single, but you said her parents don't know he is married. Would they care? He's been lying to them also. Do they want him for a son-in-law, especially if they knew what he has been doing?

I don't know if I'd tell them myself, but your previous comment made it sound like they might have major objections to his being involved with their daughter if they knew the truth.

I guess after all you've been through I'd probably tell them, if I thought they would think his actions are reprehensible and not fit for their daughter. Someone besides yourself needs to tell him that what he is doing is wrong.

God bless...and consider shining the light of day on his and her selfish affair. It affects many people, not just you.

GC -- I am sorry that I have been away for the last 24 hours. I was so disappointed when I read your post of your WH's ramblings/babblings. These are all words I've heard before, but peppered through many many conversations post d-day. To lay it on you all at once and after he was moving home is just cruel.

I don't care what he says, if he was that "in love" with the OW, he would have filed for a divorce a long time ago. He is confused and his brain simply does not know how to cope with his extreme guilt. This is something called cognitive dissonance -- when somebody has to rationalize things in their head because they have done something so wrong that the cannot cope with what they've done.

I agree with the others that you need distance right now. If I were a wealthy woman, I'd hop on a jet, pick you up and we'd go hang out in Mexico on a beach with some margaritas. But, since I can only send my thoughts, I want you to know that you have been remarkably strong throughout this and should be very proud how hard you have tried to hold on to your marriage in spite of what is happening with the A.

One time somebody asked me how in the world have I been able to look at myself and make improvements and get stronger with all of this happening. My response was that my WH had dragged me down into a deep pit and there was only one way but up and I had to climb out and live. That is what you need to do. We cannot get the WH's out of the pit -- they have to want to get out. It's hard to leave them there, but you have to save yourself. In some ways it is like what they tell you on the airplane about the oxygen -- you have to take care of yourself first before you can come to the aid of others. If you spend your time struggling to help another without first getting yourself on higher/safer ground, you will both go down. You don't deserve this and continuing to participate as a support mechanism will only take you down further and probably not help him either.

Here I am dispensing advice I should probably be taking myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sometimes I think we ought to have a lovebuster exchange. We can't LB our own WH's, but maybe we could take it on for eachother. Wouldn't it be fun to call up somebody else's WH from here and say "Hi, you don't know me and I don't know your spouse, but I happen to know you're head is so far up your rump that you got yourself stuck in there. Plus, you have the morals and common sense of a fungus." We could start a business like those e-cards. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Deep down I know the WS are confused and scared, but it's sure hard to have compassion some days with the things they throw our way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HAVE_2_B_PaTiEnT:
<strong>(((((((((gc)))))))))
From what I see, its his loss. I say plan-B and take care of you.
don't cheat yourself - treat yourself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for the cyberhug, I need it, I have an appointment with Steve H at 6AM in the morning. I spent this morning, copying emails into a readable document, before he said he would come home, when he said he would come home, after, and then an exchange we had today. I have no idea what Steve will suggest. My WH has an appt with his own therapist at 3:00PM tomorrow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>GOING CRAZY - Don't talk to him or very soon you will be true to your name. You do not need to be put through this crap anymore - let him take care of himself and see what happens - In my case I just had enough and didn't want to play limbo anymore - he wanted a divorce so I am giving him one - I am not happy about but I cannot change his feelings I can only take care of me and my children - Good Luck - Definate Plan B</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm already living my name, I feel crazy and am majorly depressed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>detach * detach * detach

Non-stop anger and non-stop pain is lousy for your immune system.
What he does .... who he sees... what he thinks / feels / eats / throws up / poops out is NOT your concern right now.
Go look into a mirror and say OUT LOUD to the woman you see looking at you:

" I LOVE YOU ! I will take care of YOU."
Do this everytime you think about WH ...

I am serious ... every time you think of him .... go to the mirror and talk to her ....

SHE needs you !!!!!!!! Don't think I'm joking.

If you don't do this .... I'm gonna whack you with the same *waffle bat* I used on hcii
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> [QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't whack me, gotta major headache already, if I do go in front of the bathroom mirror and do that my coworkers will think I have a serious case of the runs, being in there all day. It is so, so, hard. I really "felt" like he meant it this time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kk2002:
[QB]Going Crazy,
I am thinking of you today, my dear. Prayers and hugs, and sympathies.
Take care of yourself.
Sounds like Plan B is definite for you!
He will be losing so much, hopefully this will make him see that.
KK</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KK: thank you so much, I need alot of thoughts an prayers right now, we will see what Steve says tomorrow, he seems to always surprise us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by findingmywayback:
<strong>Why in the hell did he move all that **** to your house if he was going to pull this?? Tell him you want that crap out NOW, you are not a storage facility!
I feel so bad for what you are going thru, here's a big hug {{{{{GC}}}}}
I'd love to see what her family thinks of him once they learn the truth too. They don't know the real him, only the act he puts on.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I took him a while, be he moved everything, and get this, he had moved back about 750 DVD's and his DVD storage wall unit, had set it up and put them all away yesterday afternoon while he was waiting. Thanks for the hug! I don't know if they will ever find out about him being married, they won't tell them, I'm sure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtInTexas:
<strong>I'm not sure when he came out of the fog. I wasn't around as I was deeply in Plan B. He just started calling me and taking responsibility for what had happened and asking me to come back. When I turned him down was when I think he really started to "get" it. He'd always assumed that I would always be there. That I'd just sit around waiting for him.
Actually, I was dating an extremely attractive man who younger than my WH. When WH found out about that I think he realized that his time was growing short before he lost me completely. HE started to Plan A with a vengeance.
Your WH sounds so much like mine was. Let that give you some hope. Sometimes they DO come out of the fog.
Something else that I noticed was that when I stopped trying to get him back, OW started dropping the perfect woman act. WH finally started to notice that she was no where near as good as I was to him.
Sounds to me like backing off and going to Plan B is your best course of action right now.
Hang in there! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for the spark of hope, OW does not know my actions, I can't see her backing off, she's plan Aing him and has been the whole time, she knows he's married, knew I was there, she wanted to keep him, I would like to see her true colors

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>Hope you are having a better day today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If I could be there to help you move his stuff into the garage, I would!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Remember, look after yourself now. It doesn't matter what councellor the "mama's boy" visits, it's his choice. It's time to stop worrying about him, there's nothing more you can do right now. Just a suggestion ... if you can afford it, go to the spa for a day and pamper yourself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the hard thing is, is that is mom does not think we should try to get back together, she has seen us argue, well excuse me, married people do have arguments, yes, we probably could have handled things better, but i do not recall having a major argument in front of her. She only sees the past, and can only here one side of the story, living 16 hours away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HurtInTexas:
<strong>One more piece of advice. No matter how badly your WH behaves, no matter what he says or does, take the high road.
Resist the urge to retaliate or "screw him over" to get even. This will blow up in your face every time. Do the right thing no matter how hard it is.

I proved to him that I was the woman he always thought I was.

Sticking to my morals and values and doing what I KNEW was the right thing really paid off.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is one thing that I have done, as bad as I have wanted to I have not retaliated, it was good that I attended a DivorceCare group right after we separated, one of the sessions was on anger, Yes, it is normal for us to feel anger and it is not a sin, but don't act on the anger in a harmful way. This to me is the biggest change that I have done, I would trigger fights, and I would agg them on, big time. what good did that do, that is what he remembers, so I have been very good. I have had a couple of outbursts, apologized for them, but have not done any serious damage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>going_crazy - Just a question based on something you said previously. I assume that the OW is single, but you said her parents don't know he is married. Would they care? He's been lying to them also. Do they want him for a son-in-law, especially if they knew what he has been doing?

I don't know if I'd tell them myself, but your previous comment made it sound like they might have major objections to his being involved with their daughter if they knew the truth.

I guess after all you've been through I'd probably tell them, if I thought they would think his actions are reprehensible and not fit for their daughter. Someone besides yourself needs to tell him that what he is doing is wrong.

God bless...and consider shining the light of day on his and her selfish affair. It affects many people, not just you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, she is single. Unfortunately, I don't know how to get a hold of her parents, I don't even know where they live (in a different city). I do know that her father passed away earlier this year, WH was thinking about moving back at the time, wouldn't do it, probably because he thought it would be too hard on OW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>GC -- I am sorry that I have been away for the last 24 hours. I was so disappointed when I read your post of your WH's ramblings/babblings. These are all words I've heard before, but peppered through many many conversations post d-day. To lay it on you all at once and after he was moving home is just cruel.

I don't care what he says, if he was that "in love" with the OW, he would have filed for a divorce a long time ago. He is confused and his brain simply does not know how to cope with his extreme guilt. This is something called cognitive dissonance -- when somebody has to rationalize things in their head because they have done something so wrong that the cannot cope with what they've done.

I agree with the others that you need distance right now. If I were a wealthy woman, I'd hop on a jet, pick you up and we'd go hang out in Mexico on a beach with some margaritas. But, since I can only send my thoughts, I want you to know that you have been remarkably strong throughout this and should be very proud how hard you have tried to hold on to your marriage in spite of what is happening with the A.

One time somebody asked me how in the world have I been able to look at myself and make improvements and get stronger with all of this happening. My response was that my WH had dragged me down into a deep pit and there was only one way but up and I had to climb out and live. That is what you need to do. We cannot get the WH's out of the pit -- they have to want to get out. It's hard to leave them there, but you have to save yourself. In some ways it is like what they tell you on the airplane about the oxygen -- you have to take care of yourself first before you can come to the aid of others. If you spend your time struggling to help another without first getting yourself on higher/safer ground, you will both go down. You don't deserve this and continuing to participate as a support mechanism will only take you down further and probably not help him either.

Here I am dispensing advice I should probably be taking myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sometimes I think we ought to have a lovebuster exchange. We can't LB our own WH's, but maybe we could take it on for eachother. Wouldn't it be fun to call up somebody else's WH from here and say "Hi, you don't know me and I don't know your spouse, but I happen to know you're head is so far up your rump that you got yourself stuck in there. Plus, you have the morals and common sense of a fungus." We could start a business like those e-cards. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Deep down I know the WS are confused and scared, but it's sure hard to have compassion some days with the things they throw our way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for the understanding, I think PepperBand was the one that said she would love to LB him for me. that would be fun to have an LB club!!

I guess I was not prepared for this conversation, especially after conversations we had been having, it didn't realize it would be that bad. WH sees is as being totally open and honest with me, I guess I can respect that, but don't respect his actions that he is being honest about.
do you have any links to good articles on cognitive dissonance, never heard of it, I will have to go search up on that, but it does sound like him.

Just trying to keep my head above water. I have no idea what Steve is going to say, I haven't spoken with him for a long time. 6AM tomorrow morning can't come soon enough for my meeting with STeve H

just having a tough time tonight <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , wondering what Steve will say tomorrow

Pepperband: since you are in the Health Care Industry, do you know of any good websites to check the credentials of doctors, I have been trying to find out info on his therapist.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you don't do this .... I'm gonna whack you with the same *waffle bat* I used on hcii </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dahemn, Pepper...Don't break the waffle bat too soon.

I'm just about sure you'll have to use it on me again before this is over.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

HCII

Going Crazy - I am sorry that you are having a bad night still - but unfortunately I am there with you - I don't know it really sucks when you let your mind run wild - I was trying the not talk to thing but you know it kind of got to me that he didn't care if he talked to me or not - you know these wayward spouses are really lost - I wish you luck tomorrow morning - what do you want him to say - if he says go to Plan B are you going to do that??? I mean this situation really bites...Totally... I pray all of the time that I will just wake up and not care about him anymore - I do have bad days like tonite but they are getting few and further between but they still hurt - and the whole situation sometimes is just very unbearable as you can relate - Let me know what happens tomorrow with Steve....