Well after a few more snooping lb's... and another phone call... the big lb... to some new friend of h's.... that he plays guitar and sings with... a female with an accent in texas... oops did I say that?

ANyway... she was not thrilled with my call asking what she is doing talking to my h.,... etc? well she called him and reported my call...

well... h already ha d this demand on sat. , but now demands that I work out a schedule and let him know on paper and in advance when he gets the kids... his threat is if I dont he wont give me any money... then his next threat, veiled is.. it will cost money to go to ct to work this out if I refuse to negociate on HIS terms. He in fact, called this his requirement.

He also told me he does not get paid until sept. 15, he has a new job , suppossedly, it was alluded to .. and he will get paid for 3 days on the 15th....

well, what else? he emailed me this... he says he will no longer take my calls since all of our converstaions from here on out need to be documented. what else.... he says if I email him repeatedly he will blcok my email address, and report to my company thtat I email him from work... says he has saved all previous emails I sent him and that he will sent them to hr at my job... ??? go figure?

OK? REmind me please, is some of this fog... or this plain alcoholic jerkville>

We used to have the most wonderful times together and we really had a great family... NOW LOOK!

I hate this...

Also do not want to mke def. arrangements for kids because of the drinking scenario.. and if I go to court... lb.. then I can make him pay an d ask for supervised visits ...

? well, maybe since he will act sooo sober and together if interviewed... he is very good liar... it will be hard to prvove... am I doomed with this kind of a visiting alcoholic dad for 2 wkends a month for life?

Thanks, still praying he could become sober and be the man he promised to be when we married. OK, I am nuts.

thanks, HONEY

Honey,

He is threatening you. Why don't you take his advice and do what he is threatening you with. If you have valid reasons of course and sounds like you do.

Then he would have to pay for child support. Bottom line is that you want to take the steam out of his jet on the threats. Don't show your fear, just take it in stride.

As for the communication documentation do the same with his calls or e-mails. Don't tell him what you are going to do, just do it. No sense tipping your hand to your worst enemy.

Proceede with caution.

L.

Honey,

Orchid is right, as usual. Post this list where you can see it several times a day:

---- do what he is threatening you with.
---- take the steam out of his jet on the threats.
---- Don't show your fear,
---- just take it in stride.
---- keep copies of everything and don’t tell him
---- Proceeded with caution.

On the child time-share issue, have you spoken to your attorney about these issues? There are things you can do. You can ask for a custody evaluation. Tell them what you know of his alcoholism. There is usually not just one interview. There is an entire series of them. If you contest hard you can get a through psychiatric evaluation done. That’s what I did. My H is a doc and very familiar with the tests they gave. Yet even he could not hide is mental problems from them. The outcomes of the tests were that he had the profile of a disturbed person who was working very hard to conceal it. He lost his bid for custody. The people I’ve run into who do the custody evaluations are really good at picking out really good liars.

I spoke to one the other day. He says that when he runs into a client who is a ‘good liar’ he acts dumber then he is. The liar is so amused at this dumbo who is interviewing them that they start putting on a great show and getting more and more brave about their act. He says that it works every time because a con-person is very impressed with themselves and thinks they are smarter then everyone else. So they want to show off – if only to themselves. You are going to have to trust the system some. It’s scary but most of the people I know have had success with it.

You can ask that they do urine/blood/hair tests for alcohol and drug use. I do not recall if your H uses drugs. But it will show up. Tell them that you are afraid for your kid’s safety. That until he can pass a test you would like to request that he has only supervised visitation. Cities like Houston have places where he can go for those visitations. It’s some sort of a safe house. You drop the kids off. He comes and visits them there with staff visitation. There is usually a sliding scale fee. Your attorney should know about them. I did this with my ex for a few months until he calmed down and stopped being a threat.

Has your H ever gotten a DWI? He may have some and you don’t even know it. You may want to go down to the courthouse and have them do a search on him for DWI and other kinds of violations. If you turn up any, it would help your case.

If he is living with a known alcoholic or drug user that will help too.

Until you get some sort of court order you have no more right to your children then he does. He could take them and refuse to give them back, get an attorney and fight for you to only have them two weekends a month. It happens. My ex tried that game. I was one up on him.. thank goodness.

Yes it will cost you money to negotiate child custody / time share. But you need to spend it to protect your children. It will cost less to do it up front then to have to take them for psychiatric care later.
Does not matter when he gets paid. He has to pay support when due. You cannot put the kids in the deep freeze until it’s convenient for him to help pay for their food.

His threatening to turn you into HR for your emails is a riot. Tell him it’s ok ‘cause if you get fired then you will be a stay at home mom and he can pay you more support. Most employers allow for sending some emails to family. If yours does then tell him that’s the case and to back off.

It’s both fog and alcoholic jerkville. He has alien brain worms steeped in alcohol. How clearly can he possibly think?

thanks orchid and zorwe b, on my way to work .. had nightmares not about his threats but about ow's and the things he has sd to me, etc. insults... in my dream I found a list he had accidently left here comparing ow number one to me... it was eye awakening, and sad.. one part of the list had my finanical capabilities and resposibilities as apositive for me... ugh. I know it makes me so mad.

well yes , he is threatening... I already have a log.... but I just wanted thing to get better not worse.

but filing is going to be big time lb... that is why I am trying to wait, just in case.

it seems in my case filing will be the end.

honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well after a few more snooping lb's... and another phone call... the big lb... to some new friend of h's.... that he plays guitar and sings with... a female with an accent in texas... oops did I say that?

ANyway... she was not thrilled with my call asking what she is doing talking to my h.,... etc? well she called him and reported my call... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am still trying to figure out WHY you even called her? Why dip your foot in that pool???

Hi,

I don't know how it works for your state. Here is my experience from the time I filed for child support in my state. I went to the county dept that takes care of child support. I applied for support and requested the county garnish his pay check. Now, the support is determined based upon state guidelines. The county I went to said they don't negotiate. They will allow spefic deductions such as union dues, taxes, etc. Visitation has nothing to do with child support. Have the county garnish his check and he cannot get out of paying. Sure he can change employement, they eventually will find him.

I don't know how my neighbor did it, but she got supervised visitation for her kids because of his drug and alcohol problem.

Honey - I have to agree wholeheartedly with Orchid and Zorweb. Take their advice and do everything in your power to protect you and your children.

"but filing is going to be big time lb"

Right now my dear I don't think you should worry about lbing, at least in this case. What is much more important is you and your children and all of yours safety. Do what is best for you and your children. He has made his bed, now let him lie in it. Things will get better or worse no matter what you do, protect yourselves.

I don't have much else to add. I fear for you and your children. At least talk to a lawyer. Oh, and one more thing, he mentioned about the cost of going to court if you don't do things "his" way - well I got new for him, if he is difficult and prolongs the proceedings and forces you to incur uncessary court costs, your attorney can file a Motion for Attorney fees, and there is another one that can be filed which will cover filing fees for any uncessary proceedings due to his irrationale.

My best to you. Take care, and good luck.

thanks again.. he is saying this because 2-3 times lately due to his threatening attitude etc. I went to meet him to give him the kids and left.. him without the kids.. now this is my fault.. he feels backed in a corner.. well we can mention the threateneing attitude and the alcohol on the breath at least one time... that I was able to verify... the attitude says a lot too.

I am thinking on the filing... I sknow it is easy to say file from the outside.. of the situation .. for me it means giving up on my family being together. thanks, H

Honey - It is definately easier for someone else not in your situation to tell you what to do - I know I can feel for your situation - but there has to come a time and a point that you say ok this is enough - I do not deserve this and my children do not deserve this. Before my husband and I decided that we were going to divorce I was devasted (I still am) but my girls ages 9 and 12 - were freaked out - they saw me upset all of the time - always freaking out about their father and what he was doing - and I just came to the realization that he is lost to me right now and there is nothing I can do to help him - I want my family more than anything but I don't want it with this man who he has become now - If the old man comes back fine but not this - You have got to be strong - you and your children have had enough - you have to do something legal if not to just put him in his place and let him know you mean business. You have been dealing with this for so long - and he isn't changing for the better it seems for the worst - You have got to stop thinking about him and start thinking about you and your boys - you do not deserve this... You may have to completely let go to see if you can get it back....

well, h still seems to think he can make demands.. got another demanding email... demanding christmas eve, part of xmas eve, and thanksgiving eve and ahlloween... gee, he gets them all? anyway, sad to think the kids would have to be with him over at his shabby shack... sad. t hanks, H

Honey,
I know states vary, but, since you are separated, couldn't you file for custody & support without filing for divorce?

Also, serving your H divorce papers for his signature, takes place before filing them, and, there is still more time built in between filing the papers, which includes the assest & liability agreements before the final divorce decree.

True, if you serve D papers, you should expect to become divorced, and that you don't really want the divorce yet, but with his threats about custody, visitation, not paying support, I really think you need to know and set his legal responsibilities.

He isn't currently, or for some time now, the great guy he was. This guy is a loose cannon, and drunk besides.

Honey - why don't you say ok - now lets sit down and discuss the holidays, their birthdays etc. and make a chart - I mean realistically he is going to want to see them on Christmas but hey maybe Christmas morning he can come over when they open their presents - maybe Christmas Eve you can all go to church or something and then tell him he can have them for an hour or so to see his relatives - make a comprise - tell him you have no problem with him seeing the boys but you do not want him drinking when he is with them - even a drunk should know how dangerous that is, tell him we need to sit down and discuss child support and finances - tell him whatever he wants to hear but make it work for you - The halloween thing nope - you have got to see the kids - tell him you will give out candy at the house while he takes them around or vice versa - Maybe you should just start yesing him to death and stop trying to change him... Maybe you can make a chart and ask him for his approval - ??? It is worth a shot make it seem like you don't care about him but you want your boys to see their Dad... What do you think ????

good ideas and thanks. I have been very fair this yr... sharing xmas , holdiays , etc anyway... so what is his issue? fear, control? i dont know... I hate putting it on paper because it makes it all the more real.. I did email that no drinking is an issue... no scheudle yet. He claims he will not speak to me until I email him a schedule.... only email comm. for now? or court he says until I email a schedule....

nwo this afternoon after my again emailed reply andsuggestion to counseling .. he says I quit the lbs I mentioned above and then he will go to counseling.. he says he is not sure that will ever happen... all me again, right?

thanks, honey

heres my email.. comments, etc.

J-

With the condition of no drinking or other substances, 48 before visits and none at all during visits with the children I am fine with a proposed schedule. I do hope you will be agreeable if special situations do come up. (For one J J is going to be playing baseball again this season, and he will need to attend games on some days you may have him&#8230;.. You will need to take him&#8230; if you do not want to, then we can talk about me taking him to the game, etc.) We need open communication and friendship in order for this to go OK, as horrid as any shared family / split family arrangement is for anyone&#8230; especially the boys.

For now, the holidays are difficult for all of us, and I of course do not mind sharing those days. I do think it would be good if you spend some time with the kids at our home during those times. I have been more than willing all along to work out visits with the kids even without your financial support. I have made special concessions on holidays to share these times, as you know.

Here are the dates I propose for the rest of the year. I hope you will work toward recovery so that hopefully before the end of the year we are a family together again.

Your finanical support also needs to be more definite. I have great issues with it's lack, and this has caused great difficulty for the children and me. It is unfair not to support your children. I need to know when I will receive it, and how much it will be. I need your willingness to increase your support to a reasonable and fair amount and for you to work hard enough to do so for the boys. It is unfair for them to have less because of your choices.

I will go with every other weekend on friday evening at 7pm until sat. nite (to return home sat. evening by 7pm- I am open until Sunday morning at 7am if you are willing to have them home for church.) starting on this Friday and Saturday. You will have to do the picking up and taking home unless I agree to meet you. This has been unfair to me, since you decided to move so far away. I do a lot of driving during the week for the children and your driving to pick up your kids 2x a month and return them home should not be a big issue if you really love them. The kids and I have plans next weekend to go to my Uncles beach ouse&#8230; that is the weekend of the 14th of sept. If you would like to come down and visit some that would be fine. Please let me know as soon as possible if you would like to be part of that.

I am fine with you coming over on Halloween to trick or treat with the kids in their own neighborhood. I do not mind staying at home during part of this time so that you can go alone with them. I am sewing their costumes for them, as well as one for me and I plan to be at the house giving out candy. If you would like to take J J to an age approp. haunted house that would be fine as well.

Thanksgiving I plan to have lunch with the kids and if you want to see them in the evening that is fine.

Christmas, if you want to come and get them after noon on Christmas day that will be fine. You are welcome and very much invited to come and be at our home on Christmas morning to open gifts and have Santa.

All of this is pretty much as you ask. I like the kids home on Sunday morning to establish and maintain their attendance at our church. I would welcome you there anytime, and hope that you will consider going with us at times.

I will not stand for drinking or inappropriate behavior with the kids. This includes taking them to drinking establishments, such as Hooters or the bar at the end of your street&#8230; both, which I know W has been to with you.

I am very upset to discover and find out that J J and W were on your roof last weekend. This is not appropriate or safe. Also I am unhappy to find out that J J mowed your yard as well as your neighbors alone. I would appreciate your not having him do neighbors lawns, and would also appreciate your helping him if he does your yard or house work. He is upset about all of the work you had him do last week.

I do still love and care for you J. I do not know why this has to be, this is very unhealthy for our kids to be in such a situation. I do hope you will become agreeable to being a real part of our family- and not bouncing the kids back and forth in this inhumane way.

Love, Honey

already got a reply, what do yall think?

Honey-

J J needs exercise, and he needs to understand teamwork.

I will think about your plan today and get back to you tomorrow. (2) things stand out: One evening is not acceptable to me. Two, me having to pick them up and deliver isnotgoing to work all the time.

Also, having "second dibs" on holidays willnot work.

I will not have you dictate what I do in my personal life.

There also needs to be some sort of recourse for your recent telephone calls to my neighb ors, job referrals, and family.

DO NOT EMAIL ME AGAIN PLEASE UNTIL I HAVE HAD TIME TO THINK. I WILL BLOCK YOUR ADDRESS IF YOU DO.

I NEED SOME SORT OF ASSURANCE YOU WILL DISCONTINUE (1) DRIVING AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND (2) HACKING INTO MY EMAIL ACCOUNTS.

I intend to show that J J has been abused into being a "spy" by you, or as you call him your "Private Investigator".

Lastly, forget the beach. I would have considered had it not been for the recent terror of driveby's and calls to neighbors, using J J as a spy, etc.

J

My comments to mbers... per honey

I do nto call my son my priv. inves or use him as a spy... I would guess this is ws response to my problem with the hooters, other bar at end of ws' street and the roof situation... my son just told me, and now this? now the wrath of J will fall on darling os. WHY? what is with this man?

Letting Go and letting GOd. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

HONEY

no advice here, just a big hug (((HOney)))

Aw {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Honey}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}.

First, whatever phone calls, drive-bys you are doing STOP. Your own behavior, past & present is hurting your situation. Don't do anything more that he can hold against you.

Now, for the letters, I'm totally with you that your H should be sober when you drop the kids off and he should intend to stay that way. He should be paying support. The visitation should be regular. It is reasonable that he at least does one way of the travel for the trade, you demanding that he does both every time is questionable.

You know I went through several separations over 21 months, had to deal with Holidays, vacations, visitation, finances, so I have been in similar if not exactly the same circumstances.

I read your letter as...demanding and controlling.

You TELL him you'll have the kids for Halloween, Thanksgiving AND Christmas. It would be nice if the 2 of you could share or trade off during the day/night, but that isn't what he wants. So, offering to share the days isn't compromising. You likley are going to have to give up at least one of these.

I understand you want the kids to go to church, but in telling your H they have to go, you cut down by most of a day on the time he has with them. You are dictating his time with them.

And, if he's taking them to restaurant/bars, that's dictating as well. No, Hooters isn't a great place to take kids, or the most appropriate, but my H & I have taken our daughters there to eat on occasion, and I've explained the waitresses dress like that to make more money in tips, and furthermore, I don't think that is an honorable thing to do and hope that isn't what they will chose to do, a teaching experience. We've taken the kids to lots of sportsbar & nightclub type places.

I don't know about your H's roof, but my H takes the kids on our 2 story roof (plus we live on a hill) every Xmas to put on lights, not to mention they go up to rescue our stupid cats and adjust the satellite dish. If your H is up there with them, is it that dangerous? I spent my youth climbing trees, with no supervision at all, hardly broke any bones <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . My H slept on his roof in the summer when he was kid. Would you allow the kids to go up on your roof? Is it a matter of not trusting your H's supervision or sense?

Your H having your son do chores, again, is his perogative as a father. Kids sometimes complain about chores, it's a given. If this was the first time your son did lawns, it would be a concern that he wore sturdy shoes, protective eyewear, pants, understood how the mower works, but there isn't anything wrong with a kid learning to mow. If he wasn't strong enough to do it, he wouldn't have been able to do it.

I don't actually like taking the viewpoint of your H, because I do think he's done lousy/horrible/unfeeling stuff to you, but unless you go for sole custody...he's right, you can't dictate to him what he does with the kids that's within the normal limits of what parents do and doesn't result in harm.

I know you don't trust him (and I'd be crazy in your spot too), but I'm afraid if you are this demanding, you are backing yourself into a corner unless you do go to court.

Honey,

I've been following your thread for a few days...sorry it has taken me so long to post a reply. I've been kind of having a pity party for myself..and am attempting to pull myself out of it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he emailed me this... he says he will no longer take my calls since all of our converstaions from here on out need to be documented. what else.... he says if I email him repeatedly he will blcok my email address, and report to my company thtat I email him from work... says he has saved all previous emails I sent him and that he will sent them to hr at my job... ??? go figure?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure sounds like his is getting some legal advice from someone. Or is angling from a legal perspective.

You asked if it was fog or plain ol' alcoholic jerkville? Um...both! As a person who spent over 16 years in AA and as a WS...I can hear his bull all the way over here. I feel for you, Honey...you kind of have the worst of 2 very difficult situations. Dealing with an alcoholic is hard enough as it is..without the A thrown in the mix!! My heart goes out to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Also, no, he would not get them on all holidays. Each state usually has a ratio of holidays and vacation time that they pretty much stick to.

My biggest concern is this...I understand that you are hesitant about filing...about it being a major LB...and feel like that would be the 'beginning of the end'....I'm not sure at this point what more experienced folks..or someone like Steve Harley would recommend...BUT..I am more worried about his drinking. I'm not sure how often he is drunk...whether he drives drunk, etc. etc. - but I would be so very leery about letting a practicing alcoholic drive my kids ANYWHERE! I can't tell you how many times I drove home..and never remembered how I got there! Does he drive the kids places when he is drunk? Since I'm not sure how far his disease (alcoholism)has progressed..I'm not sure what to cover here.

OK...I just finished catching up on your thread right as I was going to post this reply. Honey, for your own peace of mind, consult an attorney ASAP! Show them the stuff he has emailed you and his most recent reply. Find out what your rights are here!

IMHO - if he wants to see the kids..he does ALL the driving...unless you have agreed for some special reason.

He is 'posturing' in his reply..and trying..via his response...to use it as 'pseudo-documentation' from a legal aspect. I would be very careful what I sent him in the way of written documentation from now on. He is trying to position something here to your detriment. He is seeking at any costs to get what he wants...

I'm so very sorry you are going through this.

Hugs,

YR

Honey,

As you know I live in H-town too, I filed a yr ago & still not divorced, so filing doesn't mean you will be divorced in 60 days.

I agree with Lor your letter was very controlling. Give him Thanksgiving, why not give him the whole T week, bet it is more than he wants.

Letting him take them trick or treating in Their neighborhood is good, I did the same thing last yr & except to do the same this.

I would have him take a breath test if you are worried about the drinking when he picks up or you drop off.

And Honey the phone calls have got to stop, the calls do not do any good, they only hurt you. If he has been keeping a log they can or could be use against you.

This is not the time to mention counseling, unless it deals with parenting. Counseling should only be mentioned if your H says he wants to come back, counseling should be a part of the deal 1st.

He has told you over & over what he does not like about you, the constant calling, emails ets, so why do them.

Remember you can not change him, you can only change yourself.

OK, in my defense.. yes I called a friend of his and asked her not to see him.. another possible ow... yest, this is big lb and mistake as the person she was immediately called him and made this claim on me.

Yes, I drove by his house on monday to see if he was indeed working... I get no support from this man for the kids... he was home... I rationaled that possibly he got a ride to work... my mom had surgery monday and I had asked him to watch the kids.. he sd he had to work.

yes, J is a jr. lawyer indeed and has watched his dad go through 4 marriages, and is in the 4th... so not as bad as I say... oh well... his dad is a lwyer.. though criminal does the big D too, and I am sure advises his on on what to do.... even though he promised to stya out of it.

Well, h is very much practicing alcoholic an practicing liar.

Lor, I dont agree with kids in bars, sorry. I wasnt in them as a child and it was all the better for me. As for hooters , imo, it is not just for tips, but demoralizing to women and disrespectful... I dont agree kids belong there. I really do not agree with kids visiting my h during this time ,and I really think I could have visitations supervised...

He suggested tday evening in his orig. email to me and christmas day as well .. he wanted halloween and I compromised, and then he came back with saying I did not comply or give him enough room.

My boys are not going to grow up in beer joints with dad. I knwo in some cases people will disagree... I guess I am in the bible belt here and I do not agree with my kids learning these bad habits... plus if my h takes them there he will be drinking and his drinking does not stop at a few... if you know what I mean, it will not be safe to go home.

anyway... sorry you came to h's defesne lor.. but that is ok.... I do have to control the circumstances with my children and I do feel he is getting a lot of leadway all the while giving me NO FINANCIAL support aand being drunk all the time, etc.

tha nks, H

thanks