Hey Pep; what do you think of Claude Steiner and his TA/Emotional Literacy?

Hey SpaceArian,

I went out today and guess what....I wore my purple tie dye t-shirt in support of your hippie rebirth. Couldn't find my bell bottoms so hey I wore my Mary Tyler Moore pants instead. (You know the ones....tight legs to lower calf.)

Funny thing was....no one looked at me weird. I blended right in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I must be younger than you guys.....I never had love beads. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Or maybe I was just more nerdy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Peace Man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

E_C

I have not read "Achieving Emotional Literacy" by Steiner. Have you?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I have not read "Achieving Emotional Literacy" by Steiner. Have you?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, but there was a prominent link to his site at the TA site you gave us, and interestingly enough he has two of his books, complete, for free, posted on his site, so I thought I'd ask since it'd be a nice thing to share for those who are interested in this.

here they are:

Claude Steiner - TA - Home Page

Achieving Emotional Literacy - Book

The Other Side of Power - Book

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Extremely_confused:
<strong>Hey SpaceArian,

I went out today and guess what....I wore my purple tie dye t-shirt in support of your hippie rebirth. Couldn't find my bell bottoms so hey I wore my Mary Tyler Moore pants instead. (You know the ones....tight legs to lower calf.)

Funny thing was....no one looked at me weird. I blended right in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I must be younger than you guys.....I never had love beads. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Or maybe I was just more nerdy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Peace Man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

E_C</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm Honored!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> (Unfortunately I no longer have any of my pink or british flag bell-bottoms, and besides I doubt I'd still fit in them! LOL!!!)

Have to go home and dig thru an old footlocker I have; bet I'll find all kinds of that old stuff!!

It's been 5 weeks since I went to Plan B, and really not much has happened. When I've seen my W we've been cordial and I have been as tender as I can be, showing her that I care and that I love her.

It is my intent to try something that I now consider might be valuable in re-gaining her trust, and reducing her fear of showing me her true feelings, opening up.

So I propose to say something like this the next time we meet:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I have learned a lot about myself during this past year and about how much I must have hurt you. I understand much better how the things that have happened came to be. I've made many mistakes and I have been blind to many things, and for that, I am truly sorry. I hope you can forgive me.

We were victims of circumstances that were difficult to handle, and I just didn't realize it, nor did I have the tools to deal with them. That is the plain truth. My sad truth.

I have come to realize that no matter what, I will always love you. And I love you just the way you are. I've thought about us and what could tear us apart and you know what? I can't imagine a situation which cannot be forgiven; even if it turns out that you've had many relationships in all this time, or that the twins aren't really mine, I will still forgive you, because I'm in love with you; not with the things that you do, but with you. And I have always been in love with you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Naturally, I don't expect an immediate response, but I believe that with statements like these, she may begin to see a different SC than she has known...

Now IF she were to say something about coming home (which I doubt), I'd say something like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I wish so much that I could. Please know that the issues that don't allow me to do that at this time are mine, not yours. This last year was extremely hard for me and given our current circumstances I don't feel strong enough to do that without potentially causing us harm. But know, sweetie, that it is what I want more than anything.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd appreciate your thoughts and comments.

SC:

I Will be inTereseedT in hearing WhaT The "augusT" MBers have 2 say abOuT This idea Of yOurs. IT reminds me Of my OWn 2rmOil - geTTing alOng greaT, beTTer all The Time, buT knOWing ThaT cOnTacT cOnTinues and ThaT I can'T Talk abOuT iT because iT's a LB.

I've "cOnvinced" myself, WriTely Or WrOngly, ThaT a "pure" plan B WOn'T WOrk in my siTch. We have 2 much daily family sTuff 2 deal WiTh nOT 2 have regular cOnTacT (I alsO dOn'T WANT 2 plan
B, buT WhO dOes?).

I feel ThaT WhaT I'm dOing nOW - sOrTa plan A/sOrTa UlOve - is making headWay. She's THINKING.

I guess The mOsT relevanT Thing I can say abOuT my siTch and hOW iT relaTes 2 WhaT yOu pOsTed, is ThaT The cOmmunicaTiOn seems 2 be The key, buT hOW can One cOmmunicaTe The kinds Of ThOughTs yOu Talk abOuT WiThOuT LBing. GranTed, maybe While in a mOdified plan B The risks Of LBing aren'T sO greaT as When yOu're in plan A, buT There are risks.

ThaT narrOW rOad, I guess. Well, I've managed 2 ramble Off TOpic sOmeWhaT...

-2lOng

<small>[ September 13, 2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I'm in a hurry ... please excuse my rushed comments ...

TOO wordy ! Clip the fat and save the meat.

"I'm sorry I've hurt you. Our love is strong enough to forgive each other."

No bullsh*t ... and it includes HER love ... and is not all about you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Gotta run ... you can yell at me later! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hello SC!

The comments you wish to share with her REEK of Plan A. You've already done Plan A. Your in Plan B. You will ruin your Plan B efforts if you don't stick to it. There is nothing said in these comments that you haven't already said in one shape or form.

This statement concerns me:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...When I've seen my W we've been cordial and I have been as tender as I can be, showing her that I care and that I love her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does SH have you doing some sort of modified Plan B. IMHO, Plan B should be "business" only...no tenderness, no care and love. Not rude, just short and to the point ..distant...withdrawn...to show her what divorce will be like.

From:
Queen Plan B!

oops double post!

<small>[ September 13, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: I LuvNprotect ME ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>SC:

I Will be inTereseedT in hearing WhaT The "augusT" MBers have 2 say abOuT This idea Of yOurs. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2L; I think that with things like this, we will always have the debate of whether there should or should not be any modifications to "orthodox" by-the-book Harley or not. Different people feel differently about it, and I don't think that will even be resolved.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've "cOnvinced" myself, WriTely Or WrOngly, ThaT a "pure" plan B WOn'T WOrk in my siTch. We have 2 much daily family sTuff 2 deal WiTh nOT 2 have regular cOnTacT (I alsO dOn'T WANT 2 plan
B, buT WhO dOes?).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My point precisely; only each of us knows our particular situation and S, and only each of us can decide what will work/will not work for us.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel ThaT WhaT I'm dOing nOW - sOrTa plan A/sOrTa UlOve - is making headWay. She's THINKING.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And THAT is working for you, so THAT is what you feel in your heart you need to do. I can't argue with that, and neither can anyone else, really. Now if it does not work, and you ask for advice, then we'll all chip in our 2 cents!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess The mOsT relevanT Thing I can say abOuT my siTch and hOW iT relaTes 2 WhaT yOu pOsTed, is ThaT The cOmmunicaTiOn seems 2 be The key, buT hOW can One cOmmunicaTe The kinds Of ThOughTs yOu Talk abOuT WiThOuT LBing. GranTed, maybe While in a mOdified plan B The risks Of LBing aren'T sO greaT as When yOu're in plan A, buT There are risks.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I think that in either Plan A or B or modified B, or whatever, these tyopes of conversations should be about YOU. Notice that only once did I mention anything about HER, and that was when I said "WE were both victims of circumstances". Everything else was about me, and only about me. That is as sure-fire a way as I know to not LB.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I'm in a hurry ... please excuse my rushed comments ...

TOO wordy ! Clip the fat and save the meat.

"I'm sorry I've hurt you. Our love is strong enough to forgive each other."

No bullsh*t ... and it includes HER love ... and is not all about you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Gotta run ... you can yell at me later! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why would I yell!?!?! You're one of my favorite editors in the world!
I felt that I should stay away about HER stuff...that's "trying to educate", I think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>Hello SC!

The comments you wish to share with her REEK of Plan A. You've already done Plan A. Your in Plan B. You will ruin your Plan B efforts if you don't stick to it. There is nothing said in these comments that you haven't already said in one shape or form.
...Does SH have you doing some sort of modified Plan B. IMHO, Plan B should be "business" only...no tenderness, no care and love. Not rude, just short and to the point ..distant...withdrawn...to show her what divorce will be like.
From:
Queen Plan B! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, ILuv! Long time no see! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I knew the MB Police would get me! LOL!!!

I love you and I respect you. Very much. You have done what has worked for you and your marriage. And I think that's great!

Now that doesn't mean the same thing will work for me. I would not be willing to have multiple "Plan Bs", and filing for divorce, and separations. If my W and I can agree on something we can both be happy and enthusiastic about and that is the route to repair our M, great. If we can't, then it is my view that the M isn't worth saving.

From my perspective, having multiple separations and filing for divorce every time something your H does did not conform to the Harley principles seems more like "punishment" and "force" than anything else. After all, these things should come by POJA not by coercion, right?

But it is my belief that each of us has to find the right way to save our M for US, and that no matter how similar any two situations may be, it involves different people with different values, fears, and personalities, and as such, different things will work for different people.

Now, having said that, I'll be the first to admit I may be totally wrong on this, and that my interpretation is absolutely off base, and if it is, I take my words back and apologize publicly right now.

Love, SC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ... having multiple separations and filing for divorce every time something your H does did not conform to the Harley principles seems more like "punishment" and "force" than anything else </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeeeew! I can't believe this is my life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your right. It didn't conform to the Harley principles. It is life according to I LuvNprotect ME. You cheat = you leave. You contact = you leave. God help us all if he puts me through this ever again. There will be no more plans. Rather it will be "off with your head".

I respect you too. I think you are doing an excellent job with the Harley principles. Your right, no two marriages are the same. Keep up the good work!

I try and check in from time to time. I haven't seen you lately either. You must be busy living life rather than posting! I'm trying to also. I'm unemployed now and it adds a new dynamic to marriage stress. We have that in common now too SC! I love being off work but my H wants me to work. Anyone want to join me for a pity party?!

Pepper; boy did I EVER think of you when I read this! LOL!!! You're going to love it!

This is VERY interesting; notice the pronounced influence "Facial Expression" has in our communications.

No wonder my W and I are a mess!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Mehrabian Communications Research</strong>
Professor Albert Mehrabian has pioneered the understanding of communications since the 1960's. He received his Ph.D. from Clark University and in l964 commenced an extended career of teaching and research at the University of California, Los Angeles. He currently devotes his time to research, writing, and consulting as Professor Emeritus of Psychology, UCLA.

Aside from his many and various other fascinating works, Mehrabian established this classic statistic for the effectiveness of spoken communications:

<strong>* 7% of meaning is in the words that are spoken.
* 38% of meaning is paralinguistic (the way that the words are said).
* 55% of meaning is in facial expression.</strong>

Mehrabian's model above has become one of the most widely referenced statistics in communications. The model is particularly useful in illustrating the risks of communicating - speaking and listening - without considering the effect of manner, style and body language, as these factors account for 93% of the real meaning (if listening) or perceived meaning (if speaking).

Remember, unless you happen to be a raging autocrat of Stalinist proportions, the ability to communicate and understand real and perceived meanings is essential for effective communication, management and relationships.
While Mehrabian's research was for spoken communications, these statistics also give a strong indication to the effectiveness or otherwise of written (memo, email etc) and also telephone communications, which are not nearly so reliable and effective as generally believed. The Mehrabian statistics also suggest that typical video-conferencing communications are not nearly so reliable as genuine face-to-face communications, because of the intermittent transfer of images, which is of course incapable of conveying accurate non-verbal signals.
More information about Dr Albert Mehrabian and his fascinating work see his website:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mehrabian Communications Research

<small>[ September 14, 2002, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Hi Spacecase,

Haven't posted to you in a long time but have been trying to keep up with your story as best I can - sounds like you are doing good! Lots of support here for you which is great.

I have wanted to post this to you for a couple of weeks, but I hardly have any free computer time anymore, so here's my chance.

I've been reading John Gray's "What you feel, you can Heal" - its style lay-out is kind of simple, to say the least - cartoons on every page - but if that doesn't bother you, the meat and potatoes of the book is very valuable. He talks about how people repress their feelings and the process that takes. He then talks about relationships and how, in an intimate R such as a marriage, there is a "connected tank" effect - whatever one spouse represses, the other spouse expresses. For example, if one spouse is always repressing her anger, the other spouse may express it to excess - he talks about why and how this works. He then goes on with techniques to develop so that you can discern when the feelings you are having belong to someone else, or whether they are your own feelings.

Having got that far, he gives several techniques for rebuilding intimacy between people, including what he calls a Love Letter.

The Love Letter is written as a way of expressing yourself without getting into an argument.

He writes, "The Love Letter technique is the ultimate technique for sharing and expressing the complete truth for resolving emotional conflict both within yourself and in your relationships. It is not only a powerful tool for emotional healing, but through practicing it, you will learn more about your own feelings and about what it really means to tell the truth...
To write a Love Letter, begin by expressing your anger, resentment and blame and allow yourself to move through all the other levels until you get down to the love.
Each Love Letter has five parts -
1. Anger and Blame
2. Hurt and Sadness
3. Fear and Insecurity
4. Guilt and Responsibility
5. Love, Forgiveness, Understanding and Desire.

The purpose of the Love Letter is to resolve whatever emotions are in the way of the love flowing.

So you write the Love Letter. Then you have the person you have written to you read the letter back to you out loud.

This serves two purposes:
1. You get to hear your own emotions expressed and externalized, thus making it easier for you to let go of them.
2. The person reading the letter will feel their own emotions as they read yours. When you move through to the love in your letter, they will feel themselves moving through to the love as well. If the reader was feeling separate, cold or emotionally shut down before reading your letter, they will certainly start to feel once they speak your words out loud.

...The reader should try to read the letter back to the best of his ability, recreating the feelings of the writer. Sometimes, though, it is difficult to do a good job reading back the letter when you are reading your partner's negative thoughts about yourself. The reader's voice may become very monotone and controlling (especially if he is controlling his feelings while reading). If your partner reads your letter back to you without much feeling, don't accuse them of doing it wrong!
Ask them to read the letter over a few times out loud until their numbness wears off. As they continue to read the words, progressing down through all the different emotions and finally arriving at the love, their feelings will start to flow.

Rules for reading Love Letters -
1. Never stop reading a Love Letter until you have gotten to the end. They must agree to read the whole letter, no matter what it says, all the way to the end. (That way they cannot stop with all the negative stuff, but always get the love at the end).
2. Do not make any comments while reading the letter. No comments are allowed. Just read the other person's feelings and feel your own.

What to do when your partner won't read your Love Letter or write one.

1. Don't use their refusal as an excuse to hang on to your own negative feelings - go write that Love Letter anyway. You are doing it for yourself. You win by letting go of all those emotions in the way of your love.
2. When you are finished with your letter, present your partner with it and ask them to read it.
3. If your partner refuses to read the letter, [bf]do not under any circumstances continue to communicate with him until he has read it.[/bf] If you do, you are sure to get into a fight instantaneously, unless you totally suppress your feelings, which is just as bad. Simply tell the other person: "I felt much better writing this letter. I'd like you to read it so we can make up. Until you do, I don't want to communicate with you because I know we will start fighting. I'll check back with you in a while." Then go about your business and come back in an hour or whatever time you feel is appropriate. If he still refuses to read the letter, leave and try again later. After awhile, your partner will get curious as to what is in the letter and will agree to read it. If he doesn't, you need to seriously reevaluate the relationship you are in and decide if it works for you to be with a partner who won't cooperate and participate in healing conflicts.

Never throw away your Love Letters...You will be surprised to find that the majority of your Love Letters are about the same topic. Most couples fight about the same things over and over again.

This is a heavily synopsized version - the book is great - I highly recommend it!

But I thought this technique was interesting - the Harleys seem to be working with the same kind of techniques. I think his comment about refusing to communicate until your partner reads your letter is interesting.

I hope perhaps this will help you, if your plan B leads to a reconciliation. It is always good to have concrete ideas to work with.

Hope you are having a good Sunday.

Take care,
LIR

Lady in Red,

Thank you for taking the time to post that very powerful concept.

I loved it.

E_C

LIR,
Thank so much for posting that. I like it!! I think it has great possibilities for me. And you're right, it does mesh quite well with Harley, as well as with expressing love...which I think is key!

As I've understood and internalized the fact that my W had an A due to issues "within" her and not due to her feelings about me, it's become less important to me whether she continues contact with the OM or not. Don't get me wrong, eventually she does have to cut contact, but it'll happen when she begins to "see" and not because I want her to.

I don't mean to say I've "gotten over it", I know it's not that easy, but I think I've begun to feel that as we go along. I'm being patient with her, and with myself.

Whether I fully understand just what it is that I'm doing, I'll say this: first I don't really know at this point, and second, I think it's a matter of incorporating more "knowledge" into the process, more tools that just the Harley tools, in a combination that will be different for each of us, according to what "we" feel is right, and probably according to what we "see" starts getting results. I'm giving it a bit of time; this isn't just going to "fall into place" in a day or two.

For instance, I'll relate one thing I did with my W, and we'll see if it has the desired affect, and when. As I've moved along this process, it became apparent that I am dealing with an issue of "privacy/secrecy" which has her believing that "he will NEVER forgive me". (We'd already pretty much established in the "infamous" APM thread that it was probably in large measure due to me and my personality and actions). Since I recognize that because of her personality and her current state of mind she may just choose to not face the possibility of that being true, she'd probably rather just let our M end rather than go through the embarassment/pain of "testing" her belief, since she "knows" that either way, the marriage is over. (If she doesn't tell me, it's over, and if she DOES tell me, but I cannot forgive her (as she firmly believes), it's also over, so why tell me if the end result is the same?)

So, how can I begin to get her to "remove" the firm belief that "I cannot forgive her"? I'm not sure, but one of the things I discovered was that by "confessing my sins" I can create trust and set the stage for the exchange of ULove. (As I confess and you show me you still love me, I get ULove which I can, in turn, give to my W, which will, in turn, create more trust. By "confessing" my failings to her, and asking for her forgiveness, she will trust me more.) And I debated how/if I could do this while in Plan B, and came to the conclusion that pretty much everyone "broke" plan B and it did not mean the end of the world or anything like that, so all the more reason to do it if what I'm doing is to show love.

So with a lot of help from a "wise person" from the forum, I crafted a message I delivered to my W, more or less as follows:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"I have learned a lot about myself during this past year and about how much I must have hurt you. I understand much better how the things that have happened came to be. I've made many mistakes and I have been blind to many things, and for that, I am truly sorry. I hope you can forgive me.

We were victims of circumstances that were difficult to handle, and I just didn't realize it, nor did I have the tools to deal with them. That is the plain truth. My sad truth.

I have come to realize that no matter what, I will always love you. And I love you just the way you are. I've thought about us and what could tear us apart and you know what? I can't imagine a situation which cannot be forgiven; even if it turns out that you've had many relationships in all this time, or that the twins aren't really mine, I will still forgive you, because I'm in love with you; not with the things that you do, but with you. And I have always been in love with you."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And in case she said something about "coming home" I prepared the following. (I knew it was VERY unlikely, but prepared nonetheless. E_C once told me she knew a "wise" man who used to say "Plan for the worst, Hope for the best, and hold on to your hats!" I'd like to meet that guy; pretty smart! LOL!!!):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"I wish so much that I could. Please know that the issues that don't allow me to do that at this time are mine, not yours. This last year was extremely hard for me and given our current circumstances I don't feel strong enough to do that without potentially causing us harm. But know, Muñequita, that it is what I want more than anything."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I delivered this message to her. I emailed her that I'd like to "chat" for a few minutes, and went over. We sat, chatted about kids and family stuff a bit, had coffee, and sat side by side at the kitchen table. I turned, held her hands in mine, and said a close approximation of the above (my memory's not what it used to be!). She listened intently as I looked her straight in the eyes, and her eyes teared up as I spoke (mine did too). She squeezed my hands several times as I was talking (see, THAT"S why I wanted to hold her hands while I talked; I wanted to see what her reaction would be.) She rolled her eyes and smiled when I said the part about the "twins not being mine" (heck, they look EXACTLY like me; you take a picture of my younger S at 3-4 years old and one of me at the same age, and we're IDENTICAL except mine is B&W, his is color! LOL!!!). By the time I finished, tears were rolling down her cheeks, and she said "thank you for saying that" a couple of times in a couple of different ways. Then I hugged her, told her I had to go, and we started to walk out. I turned, hugged her and gave her a yummy huge kiss, which she enthusiastically reciprocated, we hugged a bit more, I tenderly touched her cheek and neck, gave her another peck, and left.

What does this mean? I don't know yet, but I did give her a good dose of ULove, I "confessed and asked for forgiveness" and I began to maybe break that "fear barrier" which does not allow her to feel she can talk to me honestly without my losing it or not forgiving her. Will it work? I don't know. But I do feel that ULove, when given freely and honestly is an almost irresistible force...eventually she will have no choice but to return it. That, at least, is the theory. And I believe it.

Later, she emailed me this response to our "chat":

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"Thank you for having come over and telling me what you told me!
Have a good trip, rest and have fun!"
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thoughts about the chat, her reaction, my reaction, and her email?

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

SC:

I sometimes feel like my attempted plan B in July was a "failure" on my part because I didn't have SH coaching at that point in time. Pretty much everybody on this 4um pointed out that it wasn't a failure, that no matter what, we both learned something about our R from the experience.

I knew that was true, intellectually, but couldn't shake the feeling that I'd "failed" somehow 2 go by the book, and thus hurt or delayed our M recovery.

Well, I don't feel like that anymore. Plan B is very difficult when kids are involved. I don't think SH advises a pure plan B for everyone, and certainly not lightly. And all the discussions in this and Kat's thread about Ulove made me realize that I've been working 2ward something like Ulove in rebuilding my R with my W since I came home in late July.

The results of this kind of behavior 2 our WS can indeed be dramatic, as you point out with your W's reaction 2 your visit and her email back 2 you. I don't think you've "hurt" your recovery by leaving your "cone of silence" at all. As you pointed out, she may be so stuck in her fear that she loses the M no matter what she does, that she won't do anything 2 save it. And so you have 2 for anybody 2.

That's my take, at least. Where is everybody? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />