My WH has been away for 3 weeks on business. He recently came home and he is very attentive and he told me he's in love with me. He has something planned for tomorrow night that he says is a surprise.

We are currently separated and I had decided while he was gone that I just can't move forward in our marriage. I do love him, but I just don't want to put in the effort any more.

His saying this really confuses me and I don't know what to do. Part of me thinks it might have something to do with his lease ending and he may just be trying to come home and avoid the rent and bills (he is behind in a lot). No matter what, I'm not ready to physically reconcile.

What do you think?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

Well, this is what you've always wanted, isn't it? Don't start suspecting his motives and pulling back when he's coming towards you. (Or you push when he's pulling and you pull when he's pushing - you will never come towards each other.) You will regret the missed opportunity and hate yourself for the rest of your life. This is the time to start working on the marriage, not when he is running away from you. Gosh he says he's in love with you! Not 'I love you, but I am not in love with you' position the others have to start recovery from.

It is time to plan A. Physical intimacy is his most important emotional need. Come on, you know you want him. Give in to him, but slowly and exquisitely.

- Relate

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

relate,

Thanks for your pep talk! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't know if I can get back what I felt for WH even 2 months ago. I'm the one feeling the "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you!". I will try to bite my tongue and see what he has in store for me. I enjoy the time we spend together, but not sure I can keep back the negative feelings. Now that he's back in town I'm once again thinking about him and his coworker quite a bit. I was so relaxed for 3 weeks and the obsession is now swelling beneath the surface again.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, this is a classic case of your Taker trying to take over. Please re-read the articles on 'The Three States of Mind' and about how one spouse can lead the other back from Withdrawal. To quote:

Once they see each other's caring efforts, and rebuild their Love Bank accounts, they re-enter the Intimacy stage. But there's an irony that trips up some couples. Which spouse do you think is the first to move back into the state of Intimacy: the one who makes the first effort to meet the other's needs, or the recipient of that effort? You may have guessed it. The recipient of care is usually the first to return to the state of intimacy, and not the one who make the greatest effort to save the relationship.

If you set a good example by meeting your spouse's needs first, alas, that usually means that your own needs are met last. Your Taker is not pleased with this arrangement, and may try to sabotage it. You will need to make a deliberate and patient effort to override the Taker's instinct to retreat back to fighting and name-calling. But if you resist that instinct to argue, and instead focus attention on behaving thoughtfully and meeting your spouse's needs, your spouse will be encouraged to reciprocate.

Don't let your Taker trip you up now.

- Relate

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Free ~ You've been at this for a long time. What have you seen in his actions that say anything has changed?

I suggest that you ask him what his plan is to rebuild your trust and your love.

Then IF the plan is one you can live with (ie radical honesty, no privacy, counseling, no contact letter), tell him you'll think about letting him move home after you've had a chance to see his actions back up the plan. OR if the plan isn't one that you can live with, say that you'll consider letting him move home after counseling with Steve, with Steve's approval.

Noway nohow any other way. Especially if he's still drinking and not getting help.

If you get on your high horse now, he will loose his love for you and you will loose him. Then you will be back to chasing him and begging him to come back. You will have to backtrack like SeaHorse. You will be letting your Taker take charge against the principles of MB. And you will have BambleRose to blame.

First establish him coming back; then ask him to attend counseling in a loving way.

- Relate

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Hello Free2BMe,

I am glad you posted an update. Having read all of the replies thus far, I must agree with BrambleRose, 100%. Yours is not a case of first reconciliation after an A. Having been down the road of "I am in love with you" and promises regarding future conduct, you know that words only mean something IF they are accompanied by corresponding behavior that is consistent, reliable, and long-lasting. And BR is right that the first step is having a plan that is acceptable to you and the second is to follow it.

If I remember correctly, H promised to go to IC, went to one session, then missed, cancelled or forgot future sessions. Also, some of his behavior has been less than trust enhancing, right? I don't mean to suggest that his behavior needs to be 100% on at all times, but you want to have some confidence that he is actually working at rebuilding your trust in him, don't you?

Is there such a difference between his actions now and the other half dozen times he has 'tried' that you feel he is really working at the things you need him to in order to feel safe? Are the differences in conduct consistent enough and for long enough for you to feel comfortable that they are permanent changes?

Only you can answer these Qs and the overall question of what it is you need to feel safe in trying a reconciliation. Any answers, Free?

Hugs,

OneDay

Relate ~ I've "known" Free for at least a year now. Hers is not a simple situation where her husband just made a mistake and wants to come back.

As a matter of fact, I did exactly to my husband what I suggested to Free above. I'd been burned by false recovery and was divorcing my husband at the advice of Steve Harley.

By doing what I suggested to Free above, I knew without a doubt that my husband meant what he'd said, and I had boundaries in place the protected me from further harm. It saved my marriage.

Free and I also have in common that our spouses are both alcoholics. Unless her husband is taking responsiblity for his behavior and demonstrating active, positive change, he's simply doing what alcoholics do - manipulating their relationships so that they can continue the unacceptable behavior in a comfortable environment.

<small>[ September 01, 2002, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

relate,

Like BrambleRose, I have also 'known' Free for a while; since Jan. 2001 to be exact. We have 'seen' Free and her H go through many false recoveries in the past 2 years.

I don't think Free is getting on a 'high horse' at all. I think she is trying to avoid repeating a pattern in her relationship with H of false recovery after false recovery. Good for Free that she is using the MB principles to get beyond the pattern!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by relate:
<strong>.... And you will have BambleRose to blame.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if Free is fallen up side down again, could we blame it on you ?. The only one could decide is Free and no one to be blame ... we are her to offer our oppinion and our life experience. Pls read Free's past posts.

-RH-

Dear F2bme,

Wow, so similar and I can feel that pain. I sound like a broken record saying this sounds like what I went through but it is true.

When the WS came back the last time (called me up from OW's house crying with the OW in the background shouting 'take him back Orchid'), I wanted to say no. I was tired of being hurt.

Then the WS went to counseling, he finally went to one he choose. I did not influence the counselor. While I never found out all the details (Ws' memory loss episodes - LOL!! ), I did know that the counselor was not an A advocate so she did say some of the stuff he had heard from me (cheeze, if I'd known he'd listen better if he had to pay, I would have charged him for all the MB stuff I sent him - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

So when he did come back, it was now on my terms. He was charged to show his worth and value to our family. He was not to make me do all the work. I still keep plan B in my back pocket and have learned the look! Now he is learning to ask me how I am doing. He is learning to communicate better and even though he still has a ways to go, he is headed in the right direction. Even my cousin says she sees a change in him.

So you do not have to step up to the plate again. Let him know that due to past experiences you are having reservations. Know that this could send him the opposite way and if you can handle that thought, then you can say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't give quick responses. Let them wonder but not too long. Don't appear anxious, you really don't have to be anxious. Damaged goods are asking for a full refund. They want to be restored to a good status. But has he proved he deserves it yet?

Put the onis (ownership/responsibility) on him.

JMHO,
L.

Thank you for all the wonderful responses ~ we have "known" one another for so long that I know it's from the heart.

I find myself rehashing all the lies my WH has told me and I think those thoughts are being put there by my higher power for a reason.

I plan on discussing my true feelings with WH soon and I'm prepared for him to move away from me. I started Paxil while he was away and I haven't noticed any change in myself since starting it. My major complaint to doctor was that I didn't have any energy. My energy picked up a bit once WH was back. That can't be healthy that I get my energy from him.

He has blown off his counseling in the past 2 months. That is something I require of him. He keeps using his childhood as an excuse for his behaviors and he needs to put that to rest once and for all.

My WH requires too much attention and affection that I will never be able to meet for him. He needs it from many women and I just can't be part of that.

His going out to party with his coworkers (OW) just before his trip spoke loudly to me. Also his dancing with a woman while gone spoke loudly to me.

I can't dance his dance in life!

OneDay, Orchid, BR, RH and relate, I appreciate all your input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will see what his plan is and watch his actions some more.

Free2BMe - I hope that your husband is sincere. To a certain extent, all life is a "risk", and that is certainly true in the marriage arena. If you decide to move forward, boundaries (like no drinking, etc.) are certainly needed for both of you.

Also, don't forget that "feelings" come later. No one has feelings of "in love" initially. Not now, and not when you first met him. Feelings grow as a result of "doing". That is, you first "give". Love is a choice that you choose to give to someone and the emotional feelings of "in love" come later. So, if you choose to "give it another go", don't fret about the "in love" feelings. If he is sincere, he will be so into "giving" you what you need that the emotions will return in time. This Giving Attitude is a circle that grows stronger as time goes by and before you know it you will wake up one day and realize that somewhere along the way you fell "in love" again. It's an amazing plan that God has, especially when we finally realize that the "tingly, tangly feeling" comes later, not first.

Good luck with what I am sure is a tough decision for you based upon your past experiences.

WH came over and said he needed to download a song he heard while he was away. It's called "Maybe" by Pheabo Bryson and Roberta Flack and it's so beautiful. Here are the lyrics...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
If we both decide to try and make it one more time I hope we take the time to know each other well and if the answers don’t come quick we’ll go with how we feel and some times that’s not yes or no
But… Maybe they’ll be no falling stars this time around I still believe that honesty is all we’ll ever need you and me again… maybe
You keep asking me if I would love you for all time if two of us will be enough to make us strong and if we learn to keep it real and let each other grow we’ll find out there’s no yes or no just maybe there’ll be no falling stars this time around I still believe that honesty is all we’ll need can we make it through… maybe
No candles or guitars this time around
I still believe that honesty is all we’ll ever need you and me again… maybe
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He had tears in his eyes as he played the song and they over flowed when he spoke. He said it broke his heart last night when I said I wasn't sure about the marriage. He said he called the IC and made an appointment for 2 weeks (1st avail.). He says that I have stood by him and showed him what honesty is all about. He says I'm the only person in his life to ever show him and he has hurt me and he missed me so much while he was gone.

It was so wonderful to see the emotions and tears from him. I told him I'm still unsure if I can ever get past my mistrust, but I wasn't ready to fully let go.

He still has a surprise for me later today. He said no particular attire is necessary, but to be comfortable. He said I won't be taken too much out of my comfort zone, but he thinks I'll enjoy myself. Hmmmm? I'm curious!

Foreverhers, I've always remained very much in love with my H through the last 3-4 years of ups and downs and it scares me that I won't get the intensity back. I want to love him and be loved by him, but it's been a long road and I'm tired.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ September 02, 2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

Well, let him fill your love bank. Seems like the man is tired of sowing his wild oats and is ready to settle down. He's nearing 40; so it is about the right time to settle down and have kids. Do not love bust while he fills your bank; try and make deposites into his bank. But insisting on joint counselling is a good idea.

Cheers,
Relate

WH took me back to the place we met and he said he wanted to start fresh. We talked about things that we first talked about and it was nice to know he thought of this. He said he had been thinking about it for a month or so.

We talked about my feelings and not being sure. I asked if he had a plan and he said that he didn't, but whats the sense if I wasn't sure. That was disappointing - I obviously stayed with him when he wasn't sure. We talked some more and we decided to see what counseling brings.

Thanks for all the input!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you don't become strong and hold this together, if you put doubts on the table, this thing is gonna fall apart. It is very fragile, but I think you need to be the sure one, and be the one strong enough to pull it back together.

- relate

Free,
I don't think it is on your shoulders. You did your part, got hurt repeatedly, still kept yourself for quite some time at the point where you could reconcile. Finally your lovebank is low, your trustvault bankrupt.

I was like that in our 7th separation. Had done all I could for 2 years, didn't want to do anymore. I put the ball in my H's hands. At that point, if we were to reconcile, I had to see his effort. There were no promises or vows he could say, that he hadn't said in the previous 6 reconciliations, and broken. No words would do. It took his consistant, hard effort, he knew enough about MB to call it Plan A and it took him 2-3 months to convince me I could try again.

The question I asked myself was, if my H was sincere that 7th time, would I regret not giving him the chance? My answer was yes, I thought I would regret continuing with the divorce. We've been in recovery now for over 2 years. It was worth it, but I also believe it would have been worth the try if it had failed...if it would ever fail.

I'd say give your H a month to show you his changes, his willingness before you share a dwelling. Date. What's another month? If you don't see anything that changes your mind, your heart you can give up then.

You can meet him at this time as an equal, but after all this time and his not doing the right thing, he needs to show you now. Because of how you have stood by him, he knows what he would lose.

Seems like I am the only one pulling for the marriage. It is not an MB principle to put doubts in his mind when the spouse comes back. You need to plan A. Certainly you can use other guidelines and not marriage builders. Call it 'marriage doubters' recovery theory' if you wish. But according to MB it is up to you to bring it together.

You need to Plan A. i.e:
* show and express unequivocal commitment to build the marriage
* avoid all love busters
* meet his 5 emotional needs
* put in boundaries in a loving way

Your expressions of doubt is a HUGE love buster and his love bank is dwindling fast with every expression of it. He will be gone soon and you will be nursing your wounds and a false pride, instead of being in his warm embrace.

Think about the wrong, though well meaning, advice given here to both seahorse and going_crazy to go to plan B, both decisions SH came to advise against. Specially since you have no children, you have to plan A very strictly and urgently here. If you call SH, he will confirm this. Remember that your situation is different in that you do not have children where SH advocates plan A as long as possible (seahorse, going_crazy, aanst).

Best make a phone appt. with SH if you want to be sure.

- relate

<small>[ September 03, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Replaced,
After nearly 4 years on MB, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a marriage doubter. My marriage is RECOVERED 2+ years after 2 very bad years, very much in thanks to MarriageBuilders and a great counselor.

My advice is to give Free's H a chance to show he has changed. If he hasn't changed...Free's lovebank sounds as if it is drained and she will likely have gone to the point where reconciliation is no longer the gimmer of an option for HER.

Dr. Harley also recommends Plan A generally last no more than 6 months. I did 18 (marriage doubter? I think not.) Most people can't handle more than 6 with the lovebank drain of an ongoing affair and WS behavior...thus the existence of Plan B, to safeguard what love is left, allow the BS the possibility of reconciliation if the WS comes to that point.

Dr. Harley also advocates honesty in the 4 Rules of Successful Marriage. Free2Be doesn't know if she can do this, or wants to. She would be misleading her H if she said she was whole-hearted.

I'm pulling for Free's marriage.

I believe my marital recovery is stronger for the fact that both my H AND I made a decided choice to stay married and work for it. True recovery takes effort from both, even when the effort doesn't always look or feel the same from each.

My H & I did fail at reconciling many times, and I think part of that was my desperation at having him back at any cost. It didn't work, the cost was too high when he continued his A, and left me more times. It didn't work until I was strong, and so was he.