I am so mad/sad/upset/ right now.... My W went to the mountains this weekend with the OM that she is in an EA, and possibly now a PA. This is a result of a PA I had 5 years ago and we never dealt with.

She met him at work and he moved one month later. The cabin is a quaint little place, with a jacuzzi tub, hot tub and secluded romantic setting. He flew in from the West coast to meet with her. I have been plan A'ing for only two weeks now and not snooping. I had an appointment with SH but had to cancel it last week due to work here in my deployed location.

I found out about her going with him through snooping about three weeks, ago and it made me feel so bad I stopped. Well today I had this terrible feeling and had to snoop again. I found an email talking about how she was nervous to see him again, how the success of the weekend fell on her shoulders, etc. It has me so confused and mad right now, that I am tempted to call her on the cell phone, she is driving to the airport with the OM right now!!!! She talks to him everynight on the cell phone, I hate that the statements are online, she says she talks to him once a week, but I know that too is a lie. This weekend was just supposed to be her going somewhere to relax and think about us, but I know I wasn't even on her mind. I gave her the EN questionaire three weeks ago and she hasn't returned it. Says she is too busy.

I am in Afhanistan right now I want to confront her about it, but she doesn't even know that I know. Another email she wrote to another friend said that there are things that she won't tell me over email or the phone, only in person.

I have been doing a good job w/ plan A, she even has noticed a difference, and I thought maybe things were getting better, but now. I know two weeks isn't a long time at all and the fog is so thick right now. I just can't handle the picture of here sitting with him snuggling or even worse... I just can't take it. I can't come home for at least 55 more days. I wish I could just tell her that I know, but the snooping would be one of the biggest LB's that I could do.

stuck_in_the_stan,

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I will never understand how WS (wayward spouses) can do this.

About your wanting to call her. I don’t know what others think of this. But I’d be very tempted to do it. To just call and tell her “I know where you are headed and with whom. I am sorry for what I did in the past. But your doing this will not fix things. It only makes them worse.” Or something like that.

I would not expect anything from her. She will not be remorseful. She may well deny it or blame you for finding out. And only do it if you can keep some control over your emotions. The reason I would do this is that I affairs can only exist in secrecy. When tend to die in the light of day.

Of course if you tell her what you know, she may figure out how you found out and change her password.

This is exactly why the military is so hard on families. There are extended periods of separation and during them there is nothing little that either separated spouse can do. I wish the military would do more to help the families.

Do you have much of a support system where you are? Have you talked to your Chaplin or anyone else in your command? How can you possibly be affective where you are?

This happened to my husband in his first marriage. He was out on maneuvers. His wife ran off with some guy. He told his commander and the commander sent him home on emergency leave. It did not do much good because she had already left… took him a year of searching to find her.You are not an affective fighting man with this going on. Can’t you get sent home on emergency leave to deal with this?

Z-

Thank you for the advice. I talked to her last night, it wasn't a good conversation at all. I might have blown the last three weeks of trying to plan A, all in one conversation. Called her, it started out normal, then the conversation turned to our problems. And of course I mentioned the OM, not in the sense of an A, but in the sense that she cares for him. She said that I should not expect her to give up friends, I told her that wasn't my point. I told her that if one of those friends became romantic then I would expect it. She got really quiet and didn't answer. She says he is good for her, says that maybe we got married to young, maybe we stayed married after my A out of fear or shame.

I didn't bring up that I knew about their weekend together. But of course I snooped email and she emailed him as soon as she got home and said she had a wonderful time and can't wait to see him again soon.... I need to stop snooping, I was doing a good job for the three weeks that I wasn't looking. I did tell her that the cell phone record shows she talks to him almost everyday. She didn't deny it, but said she talks to alot of people. Ya, alot of single guys who are her emotional crutch. She won't use any of her family or close girl friends for help, only single guys.

I don't know how to proceed. I am getting back on plan A, because she did notice a difference. But she said that for the last three weeks I haven't been the man she knows. Told her that I am happiest now when I am doing nice things for her and showing my feelings and trying to meet her needs. She sounds like she wants the old me back, but that was what caused these problems. I hope she can get used to me the way I am changing into.

As for coming home, she would be seriously mad if I did that. Told me so. Says we made a commitment to me coming over here, and she doesn't want people to think I came home for her..... I have about 55 days or so left, these will be some long days. The last 60 have been terrible too.

Hi there,

First of all - good job you're doing there, give these al kaida guys a good kicking in the teeth. Regarding your situation - all I can say: you are not alone. Actually, I'm in a v. similar situation, as many others too. Now, that might not help you straight away, but it will give you ideas on how to proceed.
For instance, I understand how the current situation hurts you. Tell your wife, let her know exactly what and how you feel, without shouting, begging or crying. Most WS simply don’t want to acknowledge the damage they are doing.
The other point I wanted to say is that your relationship probably didn’t 'heal' properly after your affair - you kept on living, maybe by just ignoring what happened.
At the moment you're pretty powerless with regard to her actions. You cant make her do anything, regardless whether you're stuck in the stan or actually at home next beside her. All you can control are your actions.

Good luck

Sounds like you did as well as can be expected under the circumstances.

There is an issue as to whether or not your calling about all this is a love buster. Generally if your spouse thinks it’s a love buster then it is. But there is also the rule of honesty, radical honesty. If you do not tell your wife what is going on with you, then you are lying to her by omission. It’s a balancing act. What I have found I my relationship is that the love busting comes not with telling the truth or with telling of one’s true feelings; it comes with the way it is told. If it is told as calmly as possible, with no yelling, disrespectful judgments, demands, etc. then it is not a love buster.

You are probably right that snooping is not a good idea at this time because it will only serve to make you feel worse. On the other hand it will keep you appraised as to where your wife’s head is. Some of the most important aspects of war are intelligence and communications. With out both of these the strongest Army will fail. In many ways the situation with your wife is a war, and in love and war all is fair. So snoop only if you feel you can handle it and you use the info wisely. I would want to know the truth. Yes it would hurt but at least I’d know what I was up against. It’s obvious that right now you cannot depend on your wife for honesty in this situation.

It’s very usual (about 80%) for a BS (betrayed spouse) to have an affair of their own if the fallout of the original affair is not handled. I’m sorry for all that is happening to you. Just know that you have tools at your disposal to help you. Continue your Plan A. Continue as much reading as you can on the concepts. And remember that most affairs are short lived.

One of the reasons your wife may miss the ‘old you’ is that the ‘new you’ makes it harder for her to justify her actions. The ‘new you’ probably puts her in a state of conflict. This is a good thing for you.

There is a lot of support here on MB, it could help you through this. Isn’t the Internet great? There you are in Stan, in a war zone, and you can get online and get help.

Do get a support system there, like your Chaplin, to help you through the next few weeks.

Thanks for being over there. I know it’s a great personal sacrifice. You guys are really appreciated back home. You take very good care of yourself. Keep us posted.

Nick123 - Thanks. It really does help to know that I am not the only one stuck over seas with major problems at home. I bet you wouldn't be surprised by the number of people here who are going through similar situations. I have tried to point a few to this website, it has helped me beyond words. I have told her on a couple of occassions how I felt, how I have seen my mistakes from the past, how I didn't deal with the A I had, how I didn't help her. I am now just trying my hardest to show her what I have realized and learned, most of it from this site <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are exactly right that I/we didn't deal w/ my A. I brushed it under the rug, and she bottled up her emotions and built walls. These walls eventually kept out anyone who she knew prior to my A. Only new people get to come inside. She has kept out family and friends for 5 years now. I am going to do a search on your posts and read about your situation.

Z- Funny you say that about intel. I am working in an intel position over here. I never thought of her not liking the new me because it could be a threat to her EA (???PA???). That gives me some encouragement. This morning was a rough one, but now I am excited and ready to get back into plan A. I know the rollercoaster is moving right along.

I still can't bring myself to tell her I know because of the way I found out. Reading her email will seriously set her off and from this distance I don't know if I want that. I understand what you are saying about the love buster and agree that how it is presented makes a huge difference, that is one other thing I have learned thanks to MB, I need to work on the radical honesty part though. It just scares me as to what she will do when I tell her. I will look into the chaplain here, in fact I was working on a computer system in his office today.

I didn't realize that the BS in a marriage that doesn't heal properly has an A. I keep telling her that we are not in a situation that is uncommon. I have asked her to read the site, and she says the next book she reads is SAA. Right now she is reading Dr. Phil Relationship Rescue. She doesn't like the idea of phone counseling, but has agreed to try counseling when I get home and whatever else it takes. I think IC / MC is what we both need. Lots of internal self esteem issues have resulted from this too.

Does anybody have experience with a program by the Catholic Church called Retrouvaille? That is one thing we are both looking at doing too.

Thanks guys, this is great that people from all over the world can work and share.

Hi,
The fact that she is willing to see a C (or even MC), the fact that she is willing in the Retrouvaille programme is very incouraging indeed. I know that many couples go and talk to a priest instead of seeing some (potentially way-off) shrink. I know personally a few priests, and I have to say these guys have largely seen it all and are full of v. good advice.
Good luck,
Nick

Thanks Nick.

I did some more reading on the Retrouvaille program, ran a search on these discussion forums. I can't wait to give it a try. My W and I are both Catholic, unfortunately right now our home town church really upset her about 6 months ago and she refuses to go. When I get home I hope to find another church up the road that we both can attend and maybe talk to the priest.

She finally sent me her emotional needs. After thinking about her and her needs I predicted the order that they would be ranked, wish I had figured that out 5 years ago though. But I am seriously lacking in the top 5, and fullfilling her bottom 5. The way we did ours was that we were going to write a paragraph about each one and how the other could meet it better. She did the first two and then got frustrated because she couldn't explain things right in writing. She said she'll do one a day or so and send them to me. Then she went on to write a bunch of stuff. Stuff that has me confused. I almost feel like she is just now dealing with the A I had 5 years ago. Here is a quick rundown of some of the stuff.

1. She just wants to sleep all the time to not think about things.

2. She says she could easily slip back into comfort and contentment with me, but she doesn't want that. She wants love, whether with me or not. She says she loves me. She said whenever we are together she is comfortable and content.

3. She feels like she tortures me everyday and I shouldn't have to put up with that. She feels like she is a pain in the rear end. I don't feel tortured, I feel lucky to have a woman like her. Her tortured feelings come from her not being able to open up intimately with me, she feels like she is cheating me out of love, out of a life that I deserve that is better. This adds to her guilt.

4. She says she gets angry, wants to throw things sometimes, and hates me and herself sometimes. I was selfish for 5 years, not dealing with the A or helping her. She tried, I ignored, now she wants to know when it is her turn to be selfish.

5. She says hen did we reach the point of no return, or have we? Why did she let me hurt her like I did and why did she hurt me like she did (meaning not dealing and internallizing, but that was a lot of my fault for not dealing either)

6. Says I treat her like every other woman that I meet. She doesn't feel special or appreciated. I can see that, for 5 years I was in an emotional coma. Not now. I just want to hug her and hold her and tell her it will be alright.

Still no mention of feelings for somebody else, OM, or anything. Says that it is the feeling of love she is after, nobody in particular though.

I feel like maybe she is just now opening up and dealing with what happened 5 years ago.

She is "tremendously upset" with me for checking up on her. She said it ruined the weekend she had (guess it was a good one w/ OM) and made the next day a bad day, that is how upset she was. I told her I knew she was on the cell phone alot, and have known since June, also told her that when I send a text message it tells me how many minutes have been used. She still see's it as checking up. To her that is a major issue and I think it set us back to even before I started plan a. I am going to plan A my butt off.

How do we work through the years of pain that have built up, tear down the wall she built, I had one too, but it is gone now. How do I help her through her feelings of guilt for not being an adequate wife. I will do anything to meet her needs.

Tomorrow is our anniversary. I have flowers, a teddy bear and a baloons being delivered to her office. I asked one of her lady friends to take her to lunch for me and get her a Baskins Robins ice cream cake, she loves those. Tomorrow will be a hard day. I want to hold her, I could tell in her emails yesterday that she is hurting so bad inside, I just want her to know that she can come into my heart and I'll make it all better.

One other question. I almost want to discuss some anti-depressants with her, her wanting to sleep all the time to escape is normal for her, and she just seems down alot. That is how she dealt with my A. Thinking about them for both me and her. Any suggestions on that issue, I know that the Harley's recommend it in their books.

Thanks for listening.

Hi there,

In summary, I think your wife shows some very encouraging signs to make it work. Some other comments though seem to come straight from the fog department.
I think very encouraging is
- That she actively tries to work it out (MC, filling out EN questionnaire etc)
- That she feels somewhat guilty.. a good start (compared to a situation where the WS stipulates that she is right and always right)

Of course she is very upset by you checking up on her... of course you spoilt her romantic weekend. Now: is it the polices fault if the bank robber gets caught? On this account I struggle myself, but just ignoring it, putting the head into the sand cannot be the option or can it. She sort of has to understand that the burden of proof with regard to trust is onto her, and that, whether you snoop or not, you'll find out one day anyway. That lying is so hurtful. That sneaking away to OM whilst you're far away is killing you. That not telling each other the truth you will go down a vicious circle of lies and deceits. No magic bullet here how to make her realise that - I've tried in vain myself so far .

I think the EN questionnaire will give you good leads what to focus on; e.g. the making her feel special bit. She does feel special to you, at least that's what you write, so show it!

With regard to anti-D's I'm a bit sceptical, I have to say. It's a drug which essentially messes around your brain. Now, in a life threatening situation I wouldn&#8217;t hesitate taking them, but just popping a pill because you feel the blues is surely not the answer, regardless whether a doctor prescribes it (and makes some good $$$ in the process) or not. However, there are other ways with which you can achieve the same result. For example, when you practice sports, your body produces a thing called beta-endorphines which make you vy happy! I'm a marathon runner and absolutely hooked on the so-called "runners high". It keeps you healthy, fit and psychologically stable. Instead of problem-avoiding, drugging, sleeping, whatever... suggest her to do more sports.

Nick

I don't know what to think these days. I know I seriously shook her up on Monday night when I talked to her and brought up the OM. I never told her I knew that she spent the weekend with him, but I think she knows that I suspect something is up with them. She says that she is still shook up from the conversation, feels wierd, confused. She won't tell me why, because that might admit to feelings for the OM, as far as she is concerned I still think they are just friends.

I wrote her a long letter last night, attached it to an email and told her to read it when she was ready. That way she'd have a choice and not read it at work and get upset. In the letter I told her how I feel, the realizations that I have made about how poor a husband and emotionally detached and career oriented I had been. I also answered some more questions she had about my A. 5 years ago when we went to counseling I couldn't answer those, even up to last year I couldn't. But this time I think I am starting to see. Before we were married there was another incident in college when we were dating. Went out drinking with a group of friends, pretty much blacked out and woke up in a another girls room. I don't know what happened that night, if we had sex or not. My W knew about that, I could never tell her if we had sex or not. She wrote back a letter last night saying I played her for a fool, never respected her or had very little respect for her. One other aspect of my stupidity 5 years ago was during our first MC (the guy was not a good C) she asked why I did it? In my stupidity I said that the OW was better at sex. That was my illogical reasoning for the A. That served to totally crush W's ego. It is still crushed 5 years later. I don't know how to show her or to let her know that she satisfies me better than anyone in the world could. She feels compared to the OW and all my past partners before we were married. Plus there is a lot of resentment still.

I also explained to her about my desires for family commitment. That is one of her important EN's. I told her that over the last 5 years I haven't had a family commitment, I was so focussed on myself. I told her now that I am opening up I do see myself and her as parents of our child. I told her of course now is not the time, until we work through things. She agreed, said that she has wanted a baby for a while now, but I was so emotionally detached from her she knew it wouldn't be good. She doesn't see me as a father, I am too serious, she says she can relax and be free. The OM is a free spirit and that is what she likes about him. I used to be somewhat free spirited, but in my "funk" for five years I became very focussed on fixing myself, lost that spirit, it is returning though. It hurts me so bad to know that I was "emotionally divorced" for 5 years and that pushed her into the "emotional divorce" stage now. She is in total withdrawal, once in a while crosses over to the conflict stage, but then goes back down.

Finally there is the guilt. I dont' know if it is guilt from her EA's, guilt from our poor marriage or what. But she feels guilty because she is in the military and moves every 3 years, that I have to uproot and move. I work for the gov't as a contractor and can easily transition to different jobs. She feels guilty because I have to change jobs, move, can't move up the ladder. I told her I don't care, I love the fact that she is in the military, we get to travel, and I get to do new and different things in my job. It is a choice I make. She can't get over the guilt of "making me suffer" by moving. I don't see it that way, tell her that and she still can't get over it.

She tells me she is honest with me, and doesn't like to feel checked up on. She says that sometimes she doesn't remember everything that is why I don't always know everything. I guess she "just forgot" that she went to the mountains with the OM..... I want to call her on it, but right now I think our conversation on Monday seriously drained her love bank. The funny thing is it was the same conversation we have had before, almost identical. Don't know if it is guilt from this weekend that she is hiding and misdirecting towards me and her feelings for me.

As for the anti-depressants, I agree, I don't like the thought of drugs messing with my brain. She and I are both physically active, running, lifting, aerobics, etc. That does really help. I think it is worse at night, alone, thinking. She is alone in the house and I am here. The nights are the worse, that is when she calls the OM too. They email through out the day too thoug.

Once again thanks for listening.

You wrote:

<strong> She agreed, said that she has wanted a baby for a while now, but I was so emotionally detached from her she knew it wouldn't be good. She doesn't see me as a father, I am too serious, she says she can relax and be free. The OM is a free spirit and that is what she likes about him. I used to be somewhat free spirited, but in my "funk" for five years I became very focussed on fixing myself, lost that spirit, it is returning though. It hurts me so bad to know that I was "emotionally divorced" for 5 years and that pushed her into the "emotional divorce" stage now. She is in total withdrawal, once in a while crosses over to the conflict stage, but then goes back down.
</strong>

Just a few points here on that quote from yours:

Firstly, I understand how her comment re. she doesn&#8217;t see you as the father, must have hurt you. Heard the same thing at some point from my wife.

Secondly, don&#8217;t worry about the "with OM I feel free" / free spirited thing. Pure fog. Read through all threads here and you'll see that this is a very common statement of all WS. You know why? Because the affair is not based on fact and reality but on fiction, free from any commitments. Let them live together for a couple of years, let them sort out all the daily problems and let's check again whether they feel light and free-spirited.

Thirdly, I think she isn't in 'withdrawal'. Rather, she currently sits on the fence, doesn&#8217;t know whether she wants you or OM and quite rightly concludes that she doesn&#8217;t want to do any action which will make her lose you or him. That's why she doesn't like to get reminded of the fact that it is actually a binary decision and the status quo can't persist.

One final comment: I think in one of the Harley books you find a very smart question, which is: "Do you want to be right or married?" Think about it. It has a direct relevance to your arguing with her. Of course you're right, of course she conveniently "forgets" about romantic weekends with OM, of course she should feel guilty and all that. What do you win when you rub this constantly in her face? Not much, apart from the argument, but certainly not any 'love units'.