I think we are in recovery. But we go through peaks and valleys. His A ended a couple of months ago. He was depressed and I was strong. But then I was depressed and he was strong. Eventually last week, we reconnected.

Things were good until he told me two nights ago that when we fight, he thinks about the OW. He backpeddled and said that it wasn't because he wants to get back together with her. Our fights are usually about our personality differences. He loves sports; I don't care for it. The OW loves sports. So he says when he thinks about her, he thinks about how easy things were with her. He claims he didn't mean to upset me; he simply wanted to be honest and clear the air.

I think he is trying (unless he is pushing me away) but I was crushed. Am I overreacting?

My other issue is how to get the memories out of my head? For example, I know they lunched at a particular place many months ago. But everytime I pass it, I think of them together. And it drives me to tears. We've talked about moving, but it seems like we are running away. And our last move was hard on both of us. No need to put us through that now.

And every brunette I see, I wonder if it's her. I think about her more than he does. Is that normal? How do I cope with this? Any suggestions? I know that I have a good imagination so everything is probably worse in my head. How do I get this stuff out of my head???

The best way to get this stuff out of your head is to make a conscious effort to do so. It's REALLY HARD to do at first, because we condition ourselves so easily from our triggers. Then we fall into a pattern (mine is when I do dishes. I get those pots a pans scrubbed cleaner than you could ever imagine! LOL). Someone once referred to it as 'mental masturbation'. It's just a habit we have to get ourselves out of.

And how do you break a habit? Usually, by replacing it with something else. When I quit smoking, I used pretzels to compensate. When I do the dishes and start thinking about OW#1, I start thinking about something else. Something POSITIVE in my life. If you know that particular restaurant is a trigger for you, then do your best not to drive by there.

Sometimes moving is the best way to start over. Dr. Harley certainly doesn't discount it as an option when recovering from an A... especially if continued contact is inevitable - or even just possible! Just don't make any decisions lightly. Think about what it is you are really trying to run away from. If it's marital problems... then they'll only just follow you to your new home. (my H wanted to move too. We both feared running into the other women. It's been 1 1/2 yrs now... and we have yet to see any of them).

The other way to get it out of your head is to talk to your H about it. Sometimes just that simple release helps more than we think it could. If you're worried about causing him undue pain, then journal it on here or in your private diary for now. Any way you choose... as long as you get it out, you'll start feeling better.

Karen

This is also my biggest problem regarding recovery. Whenever I pass a certain chain motel, I knew they were they. I knew certain restuarants where they were and when we drove past, I would just think about them being there. I cannot sleep at night and it just goes over and over in my mind - the things they did together, how he let her in the house when I went to work. The worst is trying to sleep in a room where they made love.

We did just move about a month ago. To a new city, new jobs (I'm still looking), nearly a thousand miles from the city where the affair took place. I still obsess about her all the time. I wish someone could just erase my memories. I think about her all day everyday and hope she's having a miserable life. WH says he never thinks about her at all now (this woman he planned to marry so few months ago), except when I bring up her name.

I have asked before - but does anyone know - can a hypnotist lessen these memories? Are they really successful in helping people stop smoking or stop other bad habits? I know this sounds crazy, but I am desperate for help.

I read somewhere on the boards a truth that I understand but find hard in practice

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Acceptance comes when you realise that you cannot have a better past

I guess when I can let go that's when it starts to fade. Here's hoping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I post here as I'm running a similar conversation on another chain. But the subject -- those little mental triggers -- is close to my question of whether or not you need the specific details of the As (as in when, where, how, how many times, etc.) Is it enough to know there was an affair? That the affair is over? That the WS provide whatever proof you need? Do you need the details?
Based on the replies I've seen here, and on my own experience, I wonder if it wouldn't be better not to know where he lived, for example, or what restaurant they frequented.
Do we really really need to know? Or is it, as one post said, simply mental masturbation?
And if that's the case, will we grow hair on our heads? Since I'm balding, maybe I'll obsess some more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi, thought I would join in. I too have thoughts in my head - day in and day out.

However, now my triggers are causing huge amounts of resentment. Sometimes I look at my husband and I really and truly hate hime because of what he did! It's like back to the same old question "How could you?"

My problem now is dealing with this resentment. Can anyone offer some good advice?

In the wake of this thread, I brought the subject up with my IC yesterday. He had an interesting theory I thought I'd share (and he's very pro-marriage, so that's a plus):
He says I'm coping with the issue of what she did when I should be accepting what she did. Coping, he explained, is the act of learning to live with a condition or situation that causes you to act differently than you would once have. For example, coping with leukemia is practical. You have to adjust simply because your body is different. When we're coping, we're allowing whatever has caused this change to dictate how we proceed. In some cases -- leukemia again, for example -- we have no choice. But remember, A's are all about choices. MB is all about choices.
So we learn to accept. Acceptance doesn't mean we have to like it or embrace it. It means, like a death in the family, we simply learn that it happened and ain't nuthin' in da whole wide worl' gonna change it. You can cope all you want, do all the mental exercises (personally, I have a mental image of John Cleese that pops up and says "Stop that!" in a very British accent), bite your tongue, snap a rubber band, whatever. It's not going to stop until you accept it happened and you can't change it.
It's one of those very subtle things, but I understand where he was going with it. Again, it's like a death. When my dad died, I had a hard time playing golf for a couple of years because we loved to play together. When I finally accepted that he was gone, I was able to return to the game and enjoy it for the reasons he enjoyed it.
Look at it this way: If your spouse and the OP ate at a particular restaurant during their "dates," why should that deprive you of the joy of enjoying that same restaurant? Accepting they ate in that restaurant just like thousands of other people gives you back some of your power as a human.
One more example, then I'm gonna shut up: My WW went to an Aerosmith concert with the OM, and once refrenced a particular John Cougar song in regards to another OM. Now, personally, I like Aerosmith and some John Cougar. However, I have to admit, it's been harder to listen to them lately.
Why should I deprive myself of that? Can you imagine how miserable I'd be if she said they listened to John Cougar while making love on a golf course? Yak! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, anybody got any keys to this whole "acceptance" thing?

Sorry - this subject gets me to ranting -
How could you, how could you, how could you!?!!

That's all I can think, too. How could a man marry me, look me in the eye and say his vows, and go be with that tramp within ?? a few days, a week or so - I don't know - he won't admit when he started the A back up after our marriage. Certainly it was going strong by the time we'd been married a month. I have evidence of that.

My WH has much memory loss in regard to the A and would answer questions only in the vaguest manner. I have reconstructed much of it from his credit cards, deleted emails I was able to view from within his cookies file (a weird fluke), and from other things that were going on between us. Hindsight and all of that.

I know I can't change the past. That doesn't change that I obsess about what happened every day. For example, I know that one year ago today she was on her way to my home to meet my when all the news broke about WTC. How could my H kiss me goodbye in the morning before I left for work and pretend that he was about to leave too, but instead stay home & prepare the house for her arrival. How could he look me in the eye in the evenings when he brought her into my home and had sex with her? How could he? How could he take her on a trip less than 6 weeks after our marriage? How could he invite her into his office and have sex there, then meet me later?

I asked him once, what was OW thinking when she came into another woman's home, and got into that woman's bed and slept on her sheets and pillows with her husband, then get into her shower, use her towels and so on. How could a woman do that? How could a woman who is a married mother do that? Doesn't her family count for anything? Why throw them away? Why wasn't she with her little children or husband? What was she thinking???

And all my H can say is : She wasn't thinking. I wasn't thinking.

And then he'll say: When you talk like like, it makes my heart ache.

?????
Duh, what do think MY heartache is like?

It's all just bewildering. I hate OW past the point of obsession. It's been 10 months since d-day and the end of the A. I sent her hate mail last week. I have more ready. I'm ready to send her a wound in the mail everyday for the rest of her miserable little life. I cannot stop myself. I want her to hurt like I hurt. I want her to be embarrased and horrified at what she did. I want her to be miserable. I hope her H beats her for having the A. I want her to pay. I hate her like I've never hated anyone in my life. I hear over and over that I'm only hurting myself. I'm only making myself miserable. But I'm so miserable I just don't care.
It wasn't just my marriage that was ruined - I totaled my car after d-day, I had to close my new business and I lost all my savings because I could not concentrate on work. I'm still so distracted I don't know if I can work for someone else.

If anyone knows how to erase your brain, let me know. I need a large eraser. Sounds like everyone here is struggling with the same problems. We need posts from people who have overcome obsessing.

zoatora - hugs to you - sorry for your pain...

js72 - hugs to you as well...

I know your pain. I was fully engulfed in what you are feeling for at least 2 months after D-Day. HOW COULD YOU??!?!?! WHAT ABOUT OUR VOWS?!?!?!?

I am a broken record on this, but help is available in the form of Anti-Depressants. They will help you get a handle on your emotions, and allow you to make rational decisions. Please look into them! They changed my life. I would be divorced by now if I had not taken them.

NSST

Ditto what everyone said,I struggle with this
24-7,I guess I have not come to acceptace yet.
DAve

zoatora, I also had the same problem. I agree with the others, I went on antidepressant and totally made a huge difference. I am the bs. The ow was a friend. This nearly drove me nuts. I have more peace now. Sleeping better, not overtaken by anger, not obsessing as much about what she did to me. supposedly her husband had an affair and she was so upset that my husband tried to comfort her and "it just happened" never mind that they had already been talking to each other behind my back. I confided to her once that I was worried about my husband that he was so stressed out from too much work and other volunteer work that he didn't have time to even hardly eat or rest and since I had visited her church a few times and since we know her and her husband maybe we could go out to dinner or such and maybe they could invite him to church, thinking he might go if friends invite him. I told her he had been out of church for awhile and I wish he would start back. She and I are the same faith, we actually hugged in church before all this. I thought she and her husband were ok, but little did I know that they were having problems. We did go out to dinner with two other couples and had a great time. I thought she was just the sweetest person. Somewhere after that she and my ws began talking to each other without my knowledge, then, I began to notice anytime I was around her, she would suddenly disappear and I said to ws once, I wonder what is wrong? I don't know of anything I've done to make her mad. Ha Ha isn't that funny? Of course she couldn't face me anymore because she had slept with my husband. At first after dday 18mos ago, I blamed ws mostly, I felt like he probably pursued her, he says he didn't but admitted to me he had tried to make a move on her once a long time before anything actually happened and she said to him "what are you doing your wife is my friend" but after awhile I realized she also made a choice to go further. They both knew it was danger and continued their so called friendship until they crossed the line. I called her one day a few weeks after dday. She broke down and cried, seemed remorseful said she knew that saying I'm sorry wouldn't get it, but didn't say I'm sorry. No harsh words just told her it was wrong. I called another time (stupid I know,buthadn't found this site at the time) she proceeded that time to tell me how much she still cared for my ws, which ripped my heart out. So after such a long story, I know exactly what you mean in your rant. I wanted to ram her when I met her car on the street. I didn't and I wouldn't have, didn't want to go to jail, but I sure as heck wanted to do it! Didn't mean to take over thread, just got started and couldn't stop. Have only posted couple times,but this place has really helped me.

I tried the antidepressants for about 6 months. The first thing that I did notice was that they helped control the obsessive thinking. When we made this move to a new city last month I was starting to feel hopeful again and I thought I could do without them. I guess I thought I was going to be able to control the obsessing without them. I must need to go back on them. I was on 100mg of Effexor which I know is a pretty low dosage, but it made me twitch sometimes. Guess I need to just put up with the side effects.

Thanks to all of you for your help, suggestions, and comments. It always helps when I hear from others who have gone through the same emotions and struggles. I don't feel like I'm having to face this all alone (although I would not wish this pain on anyone - except OW that is. I HOPE her H has an affair on her!!!) I know it is evil to think that way. But I can't stop myself. I want her to be betrayed by someone she loves. And then - -- in my more sane moments I think, maybe she already has experienced this pain. When my WH chose to stay with me, maybe she felt betrayed. After all, if she really thought he was going to marry her, and then he stayed with me, maybe he did betray her, too. I hope it felt like her heart had been cut out.

But still, if I saw OW today and had the opportunity to ram her car, I would want to do it. If I saw her, I would want to point and yell - Look - there's the whore.

I don't want her to die. I just want her to be miserable for the rest of her life. The one time I met her (after d-day I decided to confront her) I yelled at her that I hoped everyday of the rest of her life was cursed.

Ugh, what an ugly life I have. I have to somehow move on with life. Someone please tell me how.

To Tiger -

I am at 10 months after d-day and still thinking this way.

Help.

Zoatora -

I wish I had an answer on how to forever get rid of the bad memories. To this day - I turn the radio station when I hear the song "As we Lay". It's a song from the OW to her lover as she realizes dawn means her lover has to go home to his wife. I hate it and when I say I hate it, I mean I'd steal the copy from the radio station & burn it in the middle of the street! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I was thinking last night how I managed to get through all of that pain, and somewhere I think I did 'accept' that it happened andin the end I still ended up with my H not the OW. Right now, having gone through yet again another d-day, I'm sitting here wondering if this time my hopes of finally restoring a broken marriage will work.

It's ok to cry and rant about what happened. But at some point you'll have to let all of that energy go or else you'll hamper the rebuilding process. Our MC counselor would open up the session asking me if I was still angry. And for 3 weeks, all I could say was yes I'm angry. By the time I finally took my 'boxing gloves off', my H thought that our marriage was over & that there was nothing he could do to save it.

There's no easy way to erase the pain but you have to make an effort because you'll drown in it if you don't.

Vee

zoatora - you might ask your doctor for Celexa. That is what I take. I noticed no side effects except for a decreased libido. I am now also taking Wellbutrin. I am in such high spirits that I could handle the worst news with barely a shrug now.

I am still working on not hating the OM. Before the Celexa, I obsessed with fantasies of killing him, beating him up, trashing his car, etc... I am still mad at him, but wish him no harm anymore. He is doing a good job screwing up his life without me helping.

jr72 - you still out there? how are you doing?

<small>[ September 12, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Not So Sad Tiger ]</small>

I tried Wellbutin for a while but it basically just puts me to sleep. I couldn't possibly work while on it.

Effexor didn't decrease my libido, but I was unable to uhmm, shall we say, achieve sexual fulfillment. Does anyone know if that is a common side effect to anti-depressants? Is that what is meant by "sexual side effects"?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tried Wellbutin for a while but it basically just puts me to sleep. I couldn't possibly work while on it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is funny. My Dr. warned me not to take it too late in the day because it might keep me up. Turns out it makes me a bit sleepy too! Not too bad though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Effexor didn't decrease my libido, but I was unable to uhmm, shall we say, achieve sexual fulfillment. Does anyone know if that is a common side effect to anti-depressants? Is that what is meant by "sexual side effects"? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and yes.

Check out Celexa!

NSST

yes, unfortunately this is one of the side effects of antidep. I also went off of antidep for awhile thinking I could do ok on my own but I was wrong. I went back on and will stay on it as long as it takes even though I hate the sexual side effect of it. I want to keep my emotions in check. Not that nothing ever gets to me now, but it's alot better.

Hello everyone saw this post and had to add to it..

"How could you?!" "You just tossed everything WE ever had away for WHAT?" "I'm your everything... yeah right! Me and who else??"

I gotta tell ya.. I had a very hard time getting over the resentment and feelings of being used, betrayed, and tossed aside just because someone "better" came along.. and All these years I have been your so called "rock"? - He turned his "rock" into broken/shattered pebbles.. well.. that other person wasn't BETTER than me and you had thought.. She was everything I wasn't alright.. she was a terrible person, ugly as sin, ill mannered, trailor trash in the worst way.. the list goes on.. so yes.. she was every woman I wasn't. But yet he left me for "that"....

My husband and I have been through alot this past year and I gotta tell you.. It has been all worth it.. there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! It's alot of heartache, sweat and tears.. but from both Husband and Wife.. and You have to want this marriage more than you've wanted anything in your life. You both have to fight hard for it.. but in the end.. you will be together and with a new relationship with each other.. a new level of understanding for each other. There will be peace in the "valley" once again.. with roses! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

*I must add that I have vowed to myself never to go through this again.. and I won't. Recovery is very hard.. but it can be done.. I just won't do it twice!