((( CLARKIE )))

It's Ok sweetie. Have a great day.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 08, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Ah, Clarkie I did not know. Thanks for the update.

Z

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dac
Junior Member
Member # 18125

posted September 06, 2002 01:28 PM
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Want to read up on cheater antics, which includes making fun of cheater sites like TOW? ScarletA makes fun of TOW and sites like it (ie, support sites for cheaters). MB is not one of those included as strikes me that posters here, generally, except for the cheaters who double-dip in both places, respect and want to honor their marriage vows. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This strikes me as odd.

IF in fact we were to visit a site like this....than we would also have to admit that we are making fun of our WS's.

Is this a healthy way to try to save your M?
I don't think it is.

I think the best thing to do would be to simply ignore everything that has nothing to do with your M and concentrate on yourself and your M.

In my personal opinion.....

Now that my xWH and I are doing very well....I have very little time to be on my computer. I would rather spend what time I can with my H and my family......and keep working on making it better..........no offense meant to anyone....or to this site itself....but those in recovery understand.

IF.....and this is a BIG IF....those of you at scarleta are not BS's or WS's.........then how do you find the time to post your antics.....and why do you waste your time? Why do you even bother.......or better yet....what is the purpose?

Seems so childish.

By the way....I've visited scarleta..........my 11 year old acts like more of an adult than most of the posters there.

I've yet to figure out why we as the BS can forgive our WS's.....the ones responsible for hurting us the most......and most of us never even consider forgiving the OP.

Now the question I will get is......."Have you forgiven the OW?"

I have forgiven her for her part in hurting me.......but have yet to forgive her OR my xWH for hurting my children......I'm working on that.

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</small>

I think the TOW is selfish, and does not give a crap who they hurt as long as they get what they want. They too were probably hurt sometime in there life. They don't think twice about hurting children or the wife. Why do they listen to MM's problems anyway. Can't they understand every marriage has it's problems and the MM should straighten it out himself not by going with TOW. What does BS and WS mean anyway?

The TOW website is a sewer of humanity. It is where the most depraved in society celebrate the destruction of other people's marriages. An OW or OM are cockroaches seeking the crumbs at the table of someone else's life. yuck...

oops! double post!

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Goldie,

You said "Can't they understand every marriage has it's problems and the MM should straighten it out himself not by going with TOW? "

I think it is up to the MM (my H included) to be the one to understand that they should straighten it out themselves. OW's don't rape the MM's. We're talking about two CONSENTING adults participating in behavior that is hurtful to another. IMHO, both are to blame and the MP even more so for the betrayal to their spouse.

BS - Betrayed Spouse
WS - Wandering Spouse
MP - Married person

SS - Still Searching <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can't believe my thread is back after 2 months!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'd really hate to see my thread 'jacked' to vent something really bitter. As time has passed I've realized we all can learn from one another. OP can learn that not all BS are nasty psycho's (as some are told by WS). BS's can learn that not all OP soulless(??sp) demons set to destroy a M.

MY FWH A happened due to problems within our M. Yes, my H chose to run away...call it temporary insanity, call it alien abduction. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> What matters is we realized while we still had a chance, what an A means, why it happens and we can take steps to see it doesn't happen again. The OW in this situation is not part of the equation, never was. She was a symptom, not the problem and never the solution.

Ok, sure this was brought up for a reason, how/whatever it was i missed it before the posts were edited. Like I have said, I have worn ALL of the hats xcept for the WS one. For the most part I get it. hugs, c

Comment: Haven't been back around for a while, saw this topic is again fresh. Question was raised, why lampoon active cheaters, which could theoretically include WS? Because ScarletA makes a distinction between those who are actively cheating, happy about it, and aren't making steps to quit and those who with to repair damaged relationships. (And this ridiculing of TOW and other cheater support boards, which include some from a major women's site, doesn't include BS boards, as there's enough pain and sorrow from cheater's actions already. Doesn't wholesale leave off BS if the BS in question is now betrayed by the person he or she was cheating with-that is just desserts nor does it leave off BS if they are indistinguishable from an OP in their actions or comments). We think that those who are determined to act selfishly will do as they wish without regard to any disapprobation, so no point in attempting to talk any sense to someone not yet ready, if ever, to act responsibly; thus one can only spear the ridiculous justifications and situations that those cheating come up with. So that's what we do, read cheater boards and make comments, joke and vent. There are a few sections that include some rough language, based upon the rough language and vile situations described elsewhere, but those places are clearly warned about before reading.

If there is room on the internet for a site that applauds and supports the morally corrupt who wish to deceive, then there is also room for an alternate antithesis site that irreverently, judgementally, and politically incorrectly enjoys pointing out the corrupt and vile, and heaping scorn about cheater antics. That's what ScarletA does, and it is a narrow-minded fallacy to assume that BS are the only ones that are against cheating or would speak up about it; the majority of posters on ScarletA are not BS but people against cheating. Why read boards like TOW and comment on them? Because it's entertainment and a little like watching a train wreck, much like a daily cheap soap opera. Plus it's also a way to express disgust about cheater actions in a very open way. Suggesting as well that for those who are in a lot of pain due to the senseless antics of those cheaters, it may be painful to read jokes about them but if it's your cup of tea, you're welcome to join. But again, to be clear, ScarletA does not welcome posts from cheaters.

Dac,
Becareful playing God...

Yours is a shallow quest...and no good will ever come from plain riduculing and attacking others..
for we a all still responsible for our own behaviors and actions REGARDLESS of the actions of others.....

No good will ever come from destroying others with our words....for in the end it is our own souls that will have to answer for it...

ARK

Dac,

One thing I would like to point out, not all WS's are actively trying to repair the marriage or taking steps to quit the A. Lots of affairs are long term, and as long as the affair is going on, and contact is going on, then the WS's are just as much to blame (if not more so) as the OW's. It takes TWO.

I guess my POV is coming from the fact that as long as I demonized the OW and spent energy hating her, I was diverted from what should have been my true focus, my wandering spouse. He chased her and yes, she chose to participate. And if she had said "NO". Well, I truly believe my WS would have kept looking till someone said "yes". He liked affairs, and the excitement of the sex and the excitemnt of someone new. And he ain't alone. I should know. I certainly enjoyed my A for all the same reasons - in the beginning. And since I too was an OW at one point, I'm not in a position to throw stones.

Yes, H and I are both truly remorseful and in hindsight we realize the damage that the affairs caused to us and to our marriage and probably to the OP's. No one wins in these things.

I really hate nasty flaming posts that get personal, no matter what board they are on. You can disagree with post, without a personal attack on the POSTER.

SS

Wow! What a thread....

I too have lurked at TOW. I don't blame them for my WH... I don't even judge them for having a site of their own. BUT, I do see them constantly defending their position,,, they are truly convinced that they are the true "soulmate" of our WH's.. and that our H's are staying with us solely for children, financial, or moral reasons. They simply CANNOT accept that alot of MM truly LOVE their spouses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> They feel we 'trick' them into staying and make fun of us. They don't see why we're holding on to a cheater who doesn't even love us.. Yet if you read their site.. you'd be suprised at the methods they use to 'trick' our WH's out of NC! So who's playing games??

I have seen them rip apart any BS who dares to trust her spouse.. "Oh Right,, they ALL say that" And laugh at BSs for taking back a cheater.. ????? (who do they think they knowingly got involved with? Mr. Noble?? Oh right.. I forgot, theyr'e "special") I believe that there are some MP who truly are in bad marriages and for whatever reason may or may not divorce their spouse. I do not believe in the all or none theory. Their lack of tolerance and failure to the OUR side is what offends me. And it seems to me that the BSs who go there are ONLY welcome if they grovel and agree. JMHO. The TOWs cannot see that they are even in the equation of broken homes and destroyed marriages.. .they feel that their A with a MM is completely separate from the Marriage Relationship.. which, IMO is total BS (bullsh**)! They knowingly and willingly engage in a R with a MM.. when MY H got an OW, so did I. And the OW got a BS.. We became a 'threesome'-- apparently with everyone's knowledge but mine. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I don't post there, because I know I would immediately get flamed off of their board. If they ever decide to take responsibility for their actions,,If they could ever understand our side, then maybe I would be more willing to be more understanding of their side. However, I will not go to a board who takes joy in ridiculing a BS. It's Mean! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I don't ridicule them and would expect the same in return.

On that ScarletA Board.. OMG. I just checked it out. And I think it's childish and immature. I won't be going back to lurk on that board. I don't see how it could possibly benefit anyone.

P.S. Clarkie.. I read your posts on TOW too,, and I think you're cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ((Hugs))

For all of those that blame their spouse equally with the OP, ok, good for you. But if I may describe my OW with the same description as the poster 2 posts back describes their WH, then you'll see why I hold her as more of the "bad guy" in my situation. Immature of me, do I have blinders on? Maybe so. But she did just like the poster said their WH did, when my H ultimately said no (would not make the A sexual), she retried a time or two and then promptly went off to find her next victim. (Also a co-worker who's married with children). Am I supposed to forgive her? Am I supposed to not blame her? The way she initiated their first kiss was to ask him if she could steal a kiss. Yes he consented, but he had prior pulled back from her when she tried to kiss him. She just kept working on him, reeling him in. Was he to blame? Of course. Was I to blame? Yes. Was she to blame moreso? I choose to answer that question YES.

Let the flames come. After what I've been through I think I'm fire resistant if not totally fire proof.

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: jamup ]</small>

I am as my name indicates "holding my breath" that my WS will realize I am the one he wants.

What gets me is that he and OW have emailed each other about how they completely trust each other....should never have secrets or lies with each other when they are finally able to be together, etc.

What do they think they are doing right now? Their whole relationship is based on lies and cheating....how can either one of them really trust one another and not lie to one another when they so easily do that to their mutual spouses.

And as I type this I think how will I trust my H again if he does choose to stay with me....I guess I deal with that when it happens and I do hope it will.

Just kind of ironic the things they write to each other about....

I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but I just don't understand the focus on the OW. Why do you care?

Does focus on her help the M? I just don't get it.

((Katie)) I'll try to explain:

Did you ever have something stolen from you? Long ago, my adorable'62 VW BUG was stolen ... and I kept thinking about the person who stole my car ... *my cute little car* that I really had sentimental value for ...."Why would that person do something SO AWFUL to me??? I would never do anything so awful to them even if I disliked that person"

Once someone has violated something that we see as "mine" ... that violator becomes an object of confusion and hurt .... "WHY DID YOU HURT ME? I WOULD NOT DO THIS TO YOU?"

Katie ... it's human nature ... part of the process for working it all out.

I virtually never think about OW anymore ... but I HAD to think about her to process the experience she helped bring upon me.

Take care ... and congrats on your anniversary!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

No you wouldn't "GET IT", no more than we would "GET" the mind of the OP! "Getting It" usually doesn't come until you have been in that persons shoes.

I guess this just all shakes out differently for diferent people.

It's not that nothing has ever been taken from me. Certainly it has. Once upon a time (what seems like a lifetime ago) I was in a long term relationship and engaged to a man. We had built a life together and had planned to marry. He left me for someone else. I just kept asking myself "what did I do?" Certainly I was heartbroken, but I never thought it was about the other person. I was trying to figure out what happened between us and why I didn't see it coming.

THis guy was the center of my universe (my first mistake) and then he was gone. I moved out of state to get over him. What's more, he spent the next 9 years of his life with this other person. In my mind it wasn't the OP's fault.

But that's just me. That's why I asked the question. I wasn't trying to be mean.

Katie,
The WS & OP make decisions in having their relationship. The BS doesn't have the choice for them to have an affair. It's a feeling of powerlessness, someone else--the WS & OP--change the BS's life, and not for the better.

Also, ususally the BS loves the WS, usually has no relationship with the OP. So the BS has no positive feelings for the OP to balance the negativity that betrayal elicits.

In order for a marriage to recover, the BS has to work through the negative feelings from the WS's betrayal & allow the love to be the primary emotion.

No similar process for the BS about the OP, other than forgiveness and no contact.

And, some OP are aggressive and blatant about the betrayal with the BS, ie stalking, hang-up calls, letters, emails, confrontations.

The OP does have a direct effect on the BS's way of life. The BS doesn't always affect, or even change, the OP's life.