I'll try to keep this brief...

We are both in our early 40s and married 20 years. 3 kids, 2 away at college and one in the 4th grade.

Our last 10 years of marriage have been up and down, with last year very difficult. We began marriage counseling in early July. Three weeks later, I discovered that my wife had started an affair in early June. We are both in individual therapy for depression. We are also continuing couples therapy. My wife agreed to put her affair on hold for six months and not contact him. She has not seen him in person as far as I can tell though she has sent him a few emails and written him two letters. Thankfully, it appears that he has not responded -- probably because he knows I will immediately expose him to his family if he does. (He is divorced but has living with his ex-wife and kids in an attempt to reconcile). I have gone "above and beyond the call" in working to reconcile... changing old habits that were a problem, being willing to work on agreements etc.

At this point, my wife says she does not even know whether she would want to build a new and better marriage even if it was possible. (She acknowledges that other couples in our situation can and have done so). She is depressed, and when she talks about one thing or another, she does not make a lot of sense. She "still loves him" and thinks they could have a lasting relationship despite the statistics and conventional wisdom. Obviously, her inability to make a commitment to do much more than go through the motions with our relationship, and her "love" for him, do not help my goal of our working toward a successful reconciliation.

At this point, the only people who know about the affair are me, my wife, the OM, two close friends, and our therapists/counselors.

I have two concerns about keeping the affair a "secret" from people like our two older kids (who know our marriage is in trouble and that we are in counseling), my parents (who know we are having some trouble and are in counseling) and her parents (who know nothing other that what they probably have sensed when they have visited or called her on the telephone) because...

...I wonder if it makes me an enabler by allowing my wife to continue romanticizing her adulterous relationship. Because it didn't occur in the "real world" she does not have to face the big realities of what friends and family might think, whether they would accept their relationship and him etc. (Of course, they didn't need to contend with day-to-day living either). The only sense of that reality my wife has gotten is what I have said (often angrily), and, what her "tell-it-like-it-is" best friend (who I am also am quite close to) tells her. That friend is gradually pulling away from my wife because, while she loves her, she is having trouble abiding my wife's continued selfish and unethical behavior. And my wife is pulling away from her friend because she doesn't want to hear what she knows, in her head and heart, it true.

In addition to my (likely illogical)desire to protect my wife's feelings and reputation, I know that bringing everything into the light can backfire...enraging my wife and driving her further away...and I cannot be sure how others will react. OTOH, my hope would be that it would help her "snap out of it" and do the right thing.

And...I have to admit...given that our chances are not good, while I am willing to accept my share of the blame up to the time we started counseling...for my own relationship with kids and parents, I would like them to know that this is not a case of "irreconcilable differences" and that I did all I could to form a new and better marriage and that my wife would not, or could not, do the same.

How often are affairs like this kept a secret from kids and family? What experiences have people had telling/not telling others "what really happened?" How likely is it that they will find out anyway?

Any other comments/thoughts would be much appreciated as well.

Another issue:

The other man, who is 60, played the role of the sensitive and benevolent listener -- which he may well have been (though some of the emails I intercepted could reasonably be regarded as manipulative). And he did tell my wife that he was divorced but living with his ex and kids in an attempt to reconcile. (He also told her that said reconciliation had failed and that he was giving up...but who knows whether that is true or not.)

I have done some investigating of this guy. He portrayed himself as a successful businessman in the process of selling his business and preparing to retire. In reality, that business failed 5 years ago. Another business he ran previously also failed. My b.s detector is going off big time on this guy. In particular:

*I would not be surprised if he is still trying to "reconcile" with his wife and that my wife was simply some [censored] on the side.

*I would not be surprised if, given his business record, his story of his own wife's alcohol problem might not be his own story.

*There is some indication that he might have personal financial problems. My wife and I are well off, which brings up the question of "gold-dipping"

*I think my wife said that, after his divorce and before attempting to reconcile with his wife, he had a relationship with another married woman, which brings up the question of whether he is a "repeat offender" to some degree.

Question: Should I hire an investigator to try to answer some of these questions? What might be the usefulness/negative consequences of, as I expect, proving to my wife that he was not the man he said he was?

Comments/thoughts would be much appreciated on this issue too.

jcw-newengland,

I’ll respond to your questions in reverse order. My take on the investigator issue is that if you can afford it, then do it. But you will more then likely have to keep your source quiet because it may not make your wife happy. That flies in the face of radical honestly, but in love and war all is fair. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in the need for radical honesty. But right now you and she are not on the same page. You have to protect yourself, your wife and your marriage. If this man is a con man then it’s best to find out. A little knowledge, presented to him correctly might even make his disappear from your life. The more intelligence you have about the entire situation, the better you will be able to fight it.

Whatever you do with this information, do not use it to bad mouth OM to your wife. That would lead to the Romeo/Juliet syndrome…. Like teenagers whose relationship grows stronger as the parents object more and more. The old “Us against the world” thing.

As for if you should tell people about her affair. I agree with you that keeping it secret is enabling. If she is concerned about protecting her reputation, then perhaps she can start behaving in a respectable manner. It is my understanding that Dr. Harley encourages telling. Here is a link to a recent threat where this and other MB concepts are discussed. In particular pay attention to cerri’s posts. She knows her stuff.

Zorweb,

Thank you for your reply and thoughts. I did cerri's posts as you suggested, and they are helpful in thinking about that issue.

I don't think the OM is a con man. I believe he has lied to her about his past and that part of his interest in her may be $$. It is intersting, as I said he has not responded to her email and letter overtures in over a month...after I said that I would expose them both if they did not stop and tried calling him at home to arrange a face to face meeting. He already knew I had intercepted all of their email correspondence and done at least a bit of research on him...maybe that will be enough for him to back off.

jcw,

In my case, I told everyone as soon as I found out. Her parents, my parents, all my friends, all her friends. I got that out of the way first. It did allow her parents to let her know in no uncertain terms that the OM would never, ever be allowed in their house. I cannot tell you what to do in your situation, it could cause the Romeo-Juliet thing zorweb referred to, but exposing the A to the light of day is usually best, IMHO.

As far as investigations, at least do an online background check. I only had a name and previous city to work with. I found out alot about the OM in my case. I even found one little piece of information (a judgement and court info) that led me to a gold mine of information. He is like a rash all over the court docket where that one bit of info pointed me to. Contempt of court, many other judgements...

Online background searches are relatively cheap, and can give you leads to further investigate. As to whether or not to let your WW know, that will be up to you. I held my information for a while, and tried to sow the seeds of doubt in her mind about him. I finally revealed my information to her, after she got a fortune cookie that said that she would become better acquainted with a co-worker. I had to be the one to get her better acquainted, as it were. It didn't change her mind too much, as 'love' is blind, but it did freak out the OM, which was a good thing.

Good luck!

ST

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How often are affairs like this kept a secret from kids and family? What experiences have people had telling/not telling others "what really happened?" How likely is it that they will find out anyway?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

IMHO, affairs are OFTEN kept secret from kids and family. Which is probably a shame... because I feel it is likely that we would have a much better understanding of affairs (and experience as couples/families in dealing with them) if we dealt with them more openly and honestly.

My experience with telling is as follows:

Our kids- Our children were 13 and 16 at the time of their father's A. At first, I wanted to spare them the knowledge that their dad had been unfaithful to me; however, it was very obvious to them that things "weren't right" between the two us-- constant tears, constant raised voices, etc. We (H and I) told the kids about their dad's A approximately one week after d-day. We pre-planned what we would say (together). We basically told them that their dad was involved with a woman at work-- that he broke things off with OW-- that we were going to marriage counseling-- that we weren't certain how things would turn out for us, but that we would keep them informed of our intentions regarding the marriage (that we HOPED to remain together as a family)-- and that we would answer any questions that they had regarding what was happening.

I have never regretted telling my children (nor do I think my H has regretted it). I do believe it's been GOOD for my children to see that a marriage can be repaired after an A-- that love and trust can be restored-- that forgiveness is possible even after the devastation of an A.

My Parents-- I told my parents (with H's knowledge) approximately one month after d-day. At that point, our recovery was "rocky" and I was looking for much needed support. Unfortunately, my parents were unable to lend the support I needed. In fact, they have never once mentioned the A since I first "confessed" it to them... never once asked if we were okay... never once asked if I was okay... never once offered to let me cry on their shoulder. They either chose to pretend that it never happened, or simply didn't know how to handle the conflict <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

I sincerely regret that I ever told them. It has damaged my/our relationship with them-- as my mom will sometimes make snide remarks regarding my H's character to other family members who know nothing of my H's affair <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .

H's Parents-- H's parents were told (with H's approval) approximately one month after d-day. In a way, we were "forced" into confessing to them, as OW's H threatened to expose the affair to all my H's relatives. We didn't want H's mom and dad to hear the "ugly" story from a complete stranger.

H's parents were/are wonderful. Very supportive to me/us-- actually called my H on his selfish behaviour and told him to take a good look at the woman he had (awww...shucks!). H's parents were very loving to us. Constantly (to this very day) check on us-- ask if we are doing ok, ask if we need anything, offer to watch kids overnight so we can get away by ourselves, etc.

I have never regretted telling my H's parents.

Friends/Siblings: Neither one of us have ever told our brother or sisters, or our best friends. At this point in my life, I am glad that we did not share this information with our siblings & friends. I doubt that they will ever find out-- unless circumstances change between my H and myself (or unless my mom finally blurts it out without my approval <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ).

I can't know for sure, but I do believe that "coming clean" helped my H realize the consequences of his actions-- that many people were hurt (himself included). I also believe that it took the "glow" off the affair-- it was no longer "innocent and flowery" but was now "glaring and screaming" for the "world" to see.

It was never my intent to punish or shame my H with the confession of his affair. My intent was to find comfort and solace in the arms of my family. However, in the end, I think it did allow my H to realize that although he was content to bask in the shadows with OW, he was not willing to bring this OW proudly out into the sunlight for everyone to see.

Dear jcw: Hopefully I have given you some insight-- even if only into how things "panned out" for me/us. Best of luck to you and your W in your recovery! Peace, ~Marie

<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: ohmy_marie ]</small>

ST,

Thank you too for your prompt reply, sharing your personal experience with me, and for your insight.

I was particularly interested in your comment that "it did allow her parents to let her know in no uncertain terms that the OM would never, ever be allowed in their house." While, as one person put it in a different thread, "blood is thicker than mud" and such disclosures can backfire, in my case, I am more a "son" to them than their own sons. (I worked side by side with her father for 18 years, bought his company, we still work together with him as a consultant, and I have been the first one they called when they needed help on various occasions -- like when my father was taken to the hospital with pneumonia). In addition, my wife's behavior -- being dissatisfied for a long time and saying little or nothing until it was too late -- and starting her affair when we had already scheduled our first marital counseling appointment is identical to my former sister-in-law's behavior last year when she divorced by wife's older brother. She is personna non grata with them, while -- in contrast -- they have maintained a close and positive relationship with another ex-daughter in law who had no affair and did work earnestly, but unsuccessfully, to save her marriage with their second son. And...while they are not fundamentalists, they are very religious...I can see them forgiving the affair, BUT, not supporting any of my wife's post affair destructive behavior.

You mentioned online investigative sources. I did use USSearch.com to get some basic information. And I was able to obtain business credit reports on his failed former businesses. What sources did you use, and what information were you able to find from each one?

Something new...my wife and I had a quiet but direct conversation last night in which I laid out what I saw as the reasons I would/and would not want to make things public. As she said, it gave her a lot to think about because she, as is common and like many other things, did not think through the implications of her not being able to maintain secrecy...and, at this point, she did not respond defensively. She still does not appreciate the depth and breadth of the many issues and consequences of her actions.

WOW!! Imagine my surprise when I clicked the link to Cerri's Posts and it led straight to my thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm actually flattered. JCW, I am actually in a similar situation as far as telling anyone. As of yet I have not, but my reasons are a bit different. I was actually going to ask Cerri about this, maybe she'll read this thread. My wife's parents view me in much a similar fashion, and I am sure they would support me all the way. In fact maybe too much, to the point of severely chastising(sp?) my WW. My problem with this is, my WW already is dealing, IMHO, with some seriouse emotional/phsycological issues stemming from a long history of abuse. I am afraid that her parents would perpetuate these problems in an attempt to "set her straight". I am planning to tell our families, my SIL already knows, but I want to try and get my WW into some sort of counceling/therapy first. As for investigating the OM, I agree, go for it. I am doing the same thing. After all, if they are truly solemates, I want to know who will be with my WW having his say in raising my kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I just wanted to add something JCW. Zor was right, Cerri does know her stuff. If you get the chance, try and talk to her. She has already helped me a great deal. I've heard Orchid is very good also.

JCW;
It appears you are new here, so without meaning any disrespect, I'll ask if you've read some of the material on this site, Dr. Harley's principles, articles and Q&A? If you haven't, those are a good place to start.
His books, in particular "Surviving an Affair", should also be on your list.

I think that as far as who to tell and all that, you've gotten good advice, and in the end, only you can judge what may be right in that area. However, I'll say that in terms of having an effect on the A or helping you recover your M, telling or not should be looked at as all you actions/non-actions should be looked at going forward:

"Is what I am thinking of doing going to have a positive effect on my W, my M, or on Me?" If it will, you should know ahead of time what that could be, and if not; best not to do it.

That being said, however, we all make mistakes in this very difficult process, and no single one is ever truly devastating, so don't become paralized in inaction because of fear. Some of what we'll do is trial-and-error, and that's OK.

Regarding snooping, PI's and all of that, my experience is that part of this you "need to know" for your own satisfaction, but be prepared for pain, because much of what you will find, you will NOT like, and it will hurt you. But I understand the need to know.

Again, if the information you find can have a positive effect for you, your W or your M, then use it in that way. I believe that in many cases disclosure and confrontation with the WS CAN, and sometimes does, help end the A. If it doesn't do this the first couple of times, then doing it any more will just be counter-productive. I found this out the hard way. I will say this; it is unlikely that even if you find very compelling information about how much of a "scumbag" the OP is, it is NOT likely to have much of an effect on your W regarding her feelings. At least not initially.

Hope this helps, and although I'm sorry your situation has brought you here, you will find support, help and experience that will help you through this difficult time of your life.

Keep posting, asking, vent here, and you'll find support and advice.

<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Dear Marie,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. It was particularly useful for me the way in which you separated your experiences with your parents, your husband's parents, your children, and your siblings and friends.

As I think about our situation, telling my parents would serve little use. While they are not religious, they are very moralistic. They would likely NEVER forgive my wife, and, if my wife and I do (somehow) reconcile, they would have real problems just interacting with her. Also, while she cares about my parents opinion of her, she only really sees them a few times a year and could easily "write off" or compartmentalize their disapproval. Same goes for friends/siblings.

Her parents are another matter entirely...as are our kids. She cares deeply about her relationship with both...and both would likely not make it easy for her... but would, at the end of the day, be loving and forgiving.

My question is not driven by anger or revenge. I want to restore our relationship but feel that time is running out. I am beginning to lose my hope and resolve to keep at it...and I think putting the affair into the context of the real world would probably help our chances of rebuilding our relationship since her "love" for him remains a factor in her not committing to give us her best try.

I am also motivated by self interest. I'll take my 50% share of the blame for everything up to mid-late May when I set things up to begin counseling, decided to and began to make a real effort to make personal changes to address that had been a big problem for her and our relationship, and had begun obviously reaching out to her. Her freindship with the OM became an affair in early June -- and it was not a spur of the moment thing. Since D-Day in early July, I have been forgiving, supportive, worked hard on those personal changes and others, reached out...and she has given me little to nothing in return "to work with." If we don't make it, and she has not made a sincere effort to reconcile with me, I want our kids, her parents, and maybe a few others to know the truth of how things went down because it will make a difference in my personal relationship with them going forward.

Again,

Thanks.

This will be quick, because I have to run out the door for a while.

To everyone who has taken the time to reply and offer advice, thank you.

I have been lurking on this site and reading things for over a month now. I did not realize how much good advice, and how much emotional support, this group offered.

Thanks! (and more later)

I do not understand why the BS should feel they need to keep WS's affair private? BS has done nothing wrong and has nothing to be ashamed of. WS has to face the consequences sooner or later, so make it sooner. If there's a divorce, it's all public anyway. Why draw out the pain in silence??

In my case, WS's affair ended within a week of exposure. OW told her H about the A, then she called my house during dinner which forced my H to tell me about the A. I figure anyone that cruel should get publicly blasted from all corners. And she did -- OWs H told all of OWs family, friends, coworkers, about her affair, filed for divorce listing the affair as the cause, and so on. I am sure it had a lot to do with ending the affair. Although my H and OW thought they were planning to run off and get married and live happily ever after, they forgot that first you have to get divorces and property settlements and child custody and go to court and find a place to live and all sorts of complications that are not exciting and romantic. They're expensive, embarrassing and part of the public record. Anyone can go to the court house and get a copy of the divorce, answer, affidavits and all the other evidence entered. If there are photos, they're part of the public record. Embarrass the hell out of the WS and OP. It just comes with the territory, doesn't it? What else could they expect - well-wishes and blessings from those around them?

From all the material I've read here and at other sites, affairs rarely survive the light of day. I agree that keeping it secret actually enables the WS to continue. What I've read indicates that you should tell everyone who will be an advocate of your marriage. I think all possible pressure should be put on the WS to "wake up" and look at reality.

In my case, my WH told me (after less than 3 months of marriage) that he was leaving me for OW. He was furious when I started telling people (especially his brother) but my point was, well - wasn't his family going to think it was strange that the woman he brought home to meet them at Christmas was a different woman than the one he'd just married? ---- I mean, how on earth was he going to explain my disappearance and OWs presence? Did he think his co-workers weren't going to notice his new bride had been replaced with someone new? And that the someone new was still married? Duh. It just goes to show how unclearly he was thinking. (Or not thinking). I mean it was truly horrible for me to have people come up to us and congratulate me on the new marriage after d-day. I'd already been replaced!

Anyway - I agree - expose the affair to the light of day. Gain advocates for your marriage. Talk to WS's friends if they are wise family oriented people. Talk to WSs parents, priest, or pastor. Pull in everyone you know who will be on your side.

Investigate the OP. Knowledge is power - especially if you can discover a history of OP having affairs, a series of financial problems, involvement in lawsuits, mental instability (OW had attempted suicide at least twice prior to involvement with WH) and so on. You never know what you will turn up.