WARNING*** Do not read this thread if you have important things to do (or important threads to read). It contains trivial, catty stuff that I'm sure I'll regret posting later.

This is about normal marital sadism (ala Schnarch).

I have to do my own laundry now and I'm pissed about the whole episode. Well, I'm actually at my office cuz I have lots of work to do, but I won't be able to make a dent in it until I can purge my system of some of this venom-- hopefully once I write it down, it'll vanish.

We have lots of problems with laundry at our house. DW used to do it every weekend. The kids (d9,s14,s16) would bring all their dirty laundry to our room and dump in on the floor; DW would sort it into about 20 loads, and then spend *all* weekend doing it. At the end there would still be about a third of the laundry undone (too well sorted?) and it would sit in our bedroom, on the floor, until the next weekend, when the process would start again.

Bad features?

1)The kids could complain that they brought something down and it didn't get washed- although most of the time they weren't good about actually getting all of the clothes down. Didn't stop them from complaining first, checking later (or never). Oldest son accused DW of "stealing" his clothes when he couldn't find something.
2)Some small loads didn't get washed for months.
3)DW does actually spend lots of time washing.
4)I get to walk all over the clothes on the floor in our room, and I'm not allowed to disturb them! Argh.

I avoided some problems by washing my own clothes if I needed them and they didn't get washed during the "normal" cycle. Of course, "I don't do it right!" so I'm only allowed to do *my* clothes.

DW finally got tired of the boy's complaints and told them they had to wash their own clothes. That actually was a great solution...

...until (2 weeks ago) the younger son asked me about a particular load "Do these go together, Dad?"
DW: "Don't ask him, Dad doesn't know how to wash clothes-- He'll tell you to put them all in one load and they'll come out grungy".
Son: "Why doesn't Dad know how to wash clothes?"
DW: "His mother didn't teach him right... she doesn't know how to wash clothes either."
ME: "If you wash them your Mom's way, you're guaranteed to not ever have any clean clothes."
DW(to me): "If you don't like the way I do them, you can do your own clothes"
YIKES!! How many disrespectful judgements did you count?

Today I noticed that all my clothes were piling up. DW verified that I am, indeed, responsible for my own clothes now. She remembered every word of that conversation 2 weeks ago...and I believe her- she'll never again wash another stitch of my clothing. Punishment for my offhand comment.

This verification came about 5 minutes after DW asked me to cut her hair- another topic we differ on. I keep insisting that she needs to have a pro do it. She says I do fine, but she continually complains while I'm cutting it and afterward always thinks it's too short. After about a week she'll sometimes tell me that many people at school have commented on her new haircut and thought it looked "nice". I don't need that kind of stress but I do it anyway. Well... not today.

So, anyway, I made some comment about needing to think about how to reorganize my life, then grabbed my stuff and left for the office.

I'm not sure, really, what kind of comments or advice I'm looking for here. In a couple of hours I'm sure I'll be calm and level headed again, probably won't go home until midnight though, unless I make lots of progress: 400 papers to grade, a talk to prepare...

I know this stuff is miniscule in the grand scheme of things, and I'm sure my DW's version of the story would seem reasonable, even to me.

I also don't think I'm looking for validation of this as "weird" behavior. It doesn't matter how many people agree with me, this is the approach she has chosen and I feel that she has a right to make such choices. I just think that it violates an aspect of our "shared" life and feel hurt by that realization. These "little" things always remind me of millions of other "little" things and then I question all the progress we've made, and my place in the universe, and...

Thanks for listening,

--Jeffers

I can understand your frustration, but I can also understand your wife's frustration.

We only had two kids, and the laundry would get to the point of being overwhelming, and I would try to wash a few loads during the week, as well as on the weekends. Heck! Even with just H and me, it can get piled up in a hurry!

My H doesn't understand the business of sorting, either. But, believe me...if you wash a nice (and expensive!) white blouse in with a couple of brand new blue jeans, it will come out looking dingy. Also, washing a red T-shirt in with white clothes will almost guarantee that you will have pink underwear.

Now, about the piles of clothes on the bedroom floor...take yourself to WalMart and buy about 4 of those nice, big Rubbermaid laundry hampers. Line them up in the laundry room, label them as "Whites", "Blue Jeans", "Light Colors", "Dark Colors". With 3 kids, you might need an extra hamper for "Whites". Call everybody together and tell them that, from now on, instead of dumping all the dirty clothes into the floor, they will be required to put them into the correct hamper. Tell the kids that anything put into the wrong hamper (or not into a hamper at all) will not get washed. Ask your wife to teach you all how to sort the clothes properly. Also, to help make things easier for your wife, ask her to show all of you how to pretreat stains, etc.

Another idea, if you have the space, is to buy another washer and dryer and have the plumbing and wiring done for them. We have friends who have four children, and they found a good used washer and dryer in the want ads, and installed them next to the ones they already had. They had a big basement, so the space was no problem for them. The plumbing was no big deal, as they just tied into the water/drain lines that were already there. They just had to run another 240V outlet to the switchbox for the dryer. This was a life-saver for our friends, as they were able to have two loads washing and two loads drying at once.

Sit down with your wife and let her know that you appreciate her efforts to make sure that you all have really nicely cleaned clothes, but that you want to help ease her laundry burden while getting rid of the piles in your bedroom. And, BTW, there is really no reason why you and your boys can't learn to do laundry properly. Ask your wife to teach you all.

Lady Clueless! What I wouldn't give for a basement... no such luck in SoCal... I'm with you on the hamper thing... until our whirling dervishes tore it up... we actually had a two bag hamper in their room...white bag... color bag... worked very well... so when they tore it up... we went to hampers.

btw... w/ 3 boys and 2 adults... we actually have a red hamper, khaki hamper, green hamper.... FUNNY!

now if I could only get DH to fold and the DSs to PUT IT AWAY IN THEIR DRAWERS!!! We have Clothes Mountain in the laundry area... clothes that are clean... some folded... most not... 'cause when H finds clothes in the dryer, he just adds to the mountain... and adds... and adds...

Also... folded piles of clothes on the couch that never seem to go away...

Jeffers, I think, because you have teenagers, that a family meeting would be a good thing... where you brainstorm HOW and WHEN laundry gets done and even CONSEQUENCES for the kids when it doesn't happen... at their age... learning to do laundry would be a good thing... I know I was doing my own laundry in high school...

btw... good to see a post from you.

Cali

Lady Clueless,

You are too kind, and not clueless at all. You're right, there is plenty of frustration to go around.

I had considered a solution like you suggested a few times in the past-- seems to occur to me around Christmas time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
(then I realize that's not the kind of 'present' DW would appreciate).

Our house has no laundry room, or much closet space in the bedrooms. Our machines are behind louvered doors in the kitchen. I've mentioned the "hamper" problem to my DW before, but with the space problems in our bedroom, the solution does not seem obvious.

The frustrating part, for me, is that this is my W's problem and she does not like me to get involved in solving "her" problems. I run the risk of getting the answer I got today-- "you don't like the way I'm doing it? Fine! Now it's your job." Sigh... I like to solve problems, but I've learned to back off; my "solutions" are taken as disrespectful judgements.

Also frustrating for me is that I truly do understand the sorting problem. My mother didn't teach me anything about laundry, but I had some college roomates that were happy to. Although, poverty in college meant that everything fit into three loads-- but I don't do that anymore (W keeps referring to that time period). It's just that I think a load should have more than three items in it. I realize that I'll never convince her that having a few less loads won't harm the clothes. Heck, maybe she's right and her load choices are optimal???? But, wouldn't fewer loads mean less work??

I think DW's solution with the boys was the only one that was going to work. They already found it too difficult to just bring their clothes down on Saturday, which was all she asked. They have actually complained less about doing their own wash than they used to complain about the "way" DW did it.

I just hate to be included in that "solution". And, I guess it's a moot point now, since my W has "solved" the problem from her POV.

Am I being a tad defensive here? I apologize. Feel free to slap me around a little.

Clearly my W and I don't know how to work together to solve problems without taking the process personally. That sucks bigtime.

Jeffers

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Clearly my W and I don't know how to work together to solve problems without taking the process personally. That sucks bigtime.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What sucks most--probably--is that if WE want CHANGE it has to start with US...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Cali

Glad to hear you are still around. Feel free to dump your frustrations here like the family dumps its laundry on the floor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LC; why is it that some of us (you) can come up with such perfect and logical solutions to these minor irritants (that turn in to fights and LBs) and some of us (me, my W, countless others) can't?

Weird how we let the "little" things become such problems. If only we treated them with the same seriousness (sp?) and dedication we give to work and big problems, I'm sure we would ALL eliminate many of these potential pitfalls.

Ah, I can well understand the frustration of not having a laundry room! Until we added a garage and utility room onto our house, our washer and dryer were behind bi-fold doors in the hall across from the kitchen. What worked for us back then was to have 2 hampers for light and dark colors in the hallway outside the bedrooms and put the whites into the washer. When the washer got full, we washed them...usually every day. Then, if one of the two hampers was full, we washed what was in that hamper.

And, yeah, you really need to wash more than 3 items at a time, although if you cram too much into the washer, the clothes won't have enough room to swish around and won't get clean. My H has been known to cram the washer full of blue jeans and THEN dump detergent in there. Result? There would be big clumps of detergent stuck to the jeans. I would have to dump half the jeans back into the hamper and rewash them to get the detergent out. That kind of help I didn't need!

If you don't have room for hampers in the hallway, keep a hamper in each bedroom and one in each bathroom. Maybe even keep the ones you fill set down inside an empty one to use for sorting. That's gotta be better than piles of clothing all over the floor!

Also, since your wife doesn't want you solving "her" problems, how about asking her to help solve your problem...that of having clothes all over the floor.

Cali, I know all about those laundry bags in a stand. I bought one once, and it fell apart within a week. I like those big plastic ones with the vent holes in the sides.

And, about the folding and putting away...the closest I ever came to child abuse was after I had spent HOURS ironing DD's clothes and putting them on hangers. I had taken them to her room, handed them over to her and told her to hang them in her closet. A few days later, I went in to strip her bed and do still more laundry, looked toward her closet, and there, in a heap on the floor of her closet, with shoes and other crap thrown on top, were her nice, clean, freshly-ironed dresses, blouses, and jeans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Apparently, she was watching TV, and just blindly aimed in the general direction of the clothes rod and missed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And, oh yeah!!! I almost forgot something I did a few times when the pile of dirty clothes got unbearable! I loaded up the blue jeans and stuff that needed to be ironed and took them to the CLEANERS!!!! I've also been known to load the washer and dryer, and then take the rest to the local laundromat and washed them all at once. True, it cost some $$$, but at the time, I felt it was worth it. And, it definitely WAS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi all,

Well, it's a new day and I feel better and quite sheepish-- as I predicted.

I got home very late (1:20am) and all my clothes were sitting on the kitchen table - washed! She wasn't speaking to me this morning (or looking at me, either). Normally I would just sneak out of the house and let things dissipate on their own, but today I touched her and said "I'm sorry". She didn't acknowledge it.

That may seem like an obvious, trivial thing to do (apologize), but for me it's hard. Why should I expose myself by offering an apology that might be challenged, or rejected, when things will blow over on their own? I know the answer here. Things don't really "blow over," do they?

Lady Clueless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
how about asking her to help solve your problem...that of having clothes all over the floor.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is astute. I really don't care how she handles the washing, it only comes up because I relate it to my problem. I'm pretty sure I can ask about the "clothes on the floor" problem without worrying about LBs. At least, I feel safe doing that.

I did the cakes of detergent thing once-- I tried to be too conservative with our variable load adjustment and tried to wash some heavy canvas karate uniforms on the medium setting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I had to wash them twice.

Our S14 would occasionally bring down his basket with dirty clothes and on the bottom DW would find clean, folded clothes from the previous week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SC,

I think of myself as a master problem solver (I know you're the same way), but when it comes to marital stuff I'm clearly out of my league sometimes (a lot of times?). It's embarrassing that there are such simple solutions to problems I'm stuck on... I guess it's worth suffering the embarrassment to learn and improve.

Estes,

Yes, I'm still around and aware of what's happening to people;
I'm the student sitting in the back row, aware, but not involved.

There are lots of reasons why I don't post much anymore. Most of them involve limitations of time and energy.

I get very involved in the posts I respond to, expending a lot of emotional energy to understand, and then a lot of intellectual focus to explain how I feel very carefully. I don't want to be misunderstood, or appear hurtful when I don't intend to be. My posts are very "guarded" in some ways. I consider this one of my major character flaws. I had some hope that interacting with this forum would help me a little there, but progress is slow. Lately, I've found that reading AND NOT responding, takes about 1/10 of my energy and time

When I was here a lot I was not coping well at all with real life (not the fault of MB) and MB kept me sane. I'm still overwhelmed with all life is throwing at me (ie- not keeping up), but my marriage is a calmer, safer place, and I've been able to focus on other things again. I multitask very inefficiently, so I have to limit the number of things I take on.

That was part of my problem this weekend- when I'm stressed out, my ability to handle new stresses decreases. When I can no longer "hold onto myself" in the face of the stress, I retreat. This is going to be a huge, continual problem this semester!

Cali,

Thanks for stopping by, the explanation above was for you, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
What sucks most--probably--is that if WE want CHANGE it has to start with US...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, yes, yes!!!

It sucks that we're responsible (and not our spouse), BUT the means to change is also in our hands so we can do something about it if we chose -- we don't need to wait for them. (In fact, shouldn't wait for them!)

Non-useful thoughts: "We wouldn't be having problems if she stopped doing X." ...."I would be happy if only she would do Y", or my personal biggee, "I would have less stress and perform better, if only she would stop bugging me, and support me instead."

Notice that all of these thoughts make her responsible for my problems. (That is rhetorical, cuz I know that you get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

I don't like everything that we're doing right now, but I know there are things I can do to improve the situation. I don't have to wait around for things to "get solved." That's mainly why things have been safer/calmer/nicer for me. It's very stressful to try to force someone else to do stuff all the time, I've tried real hard to give that trait up.

Very longwinded, as always...

Jeffers

jeffers,

How about bring it to laundrymat that do it by lbs. Down here they do it for $1.50/lb min 10 lbs, clean & folded. Get them to pay from their allowance or pocket money.

Glad to hear from you.

-RH-

J,

Nice for the student in the back row to speak for a change. Also isn't nice to know that little things like laundry are a problem for everyone at some point.

The STBX use to think I lost socks to make him mad, finally it got to where I dump them all on the bed & let him put his on away, same with all his clothes, he could never find them when I put them away, he suffered from that gentic male sickness of "Where is my........" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OS & I fight about his clothes ALL the time, so far no real solution, except I tell him he could wash his own, he rather me do it than him. Plus I have threaten to was all of his boxers & then freeze them. Don't know what he will do if he goes off to college next yr; 1)he'll live close enough to come home when clean clothes run out or 2)he will find some hot girl (he's words) to do it for him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad today was better. Good for you saying sorry to your W. Her way was doing all your laundry.

Speak up a little more often, so we know you are back there.

Geeze Jeffers,

I mention you in a thread and poof!! Here you are. Now I read your thread yesterday but I was in the middle of doing 'laundry', housework and working work stuff on-line and just couldn't respond to you without feeling the need to beat up an H!!! LOL! Just kidding <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Guys doing laundry??? Scary for some of us and a turn on for others. I much rather my H wash my car or do the dishes. Oh well.......

By the way, the H did wash both vehicles this weekend and yep, it was a big plus in my book.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok Jeffers, you gotta find a way to get back on her good side. Let's see.....dinner and a movie? Howz about doing the dishes or making the bed only after....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

take care,
L.

redhat,

The laundry idea works if they have to drive and pay it themselves. DW tried taxing their allowance for various misbehaviors before -- they just live without the money. They seem to do much better when we do less for them and give them more freedom to solve problems "their" way.

Hmmmm.....I think it's a sneaky way of saying "I told you so".

Nice of you to stop in!!

Sing,

I need to tell you my sock story... I made an "offhand" comment once about the crummy job she did mating my brown socks... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Well, I've been mating my own socks ever since that day... about 20 years ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I'm still sticking to my story that I was "just kidding".

Wouldn't a really hot babe be able to find a cute guy that would wash her clothes. Man... where do kids get their ideas anyway????

I was always the kid that blurted out the noxious puns in class at every opportunity. And they were funnnnyyy. At least, I thought so.

Orchid,

I saw your "searching for people" thread a while ago and I was going to respond with some nice stories, but I thought about them too long and the thread fell back a few pages and....

There were lot's of posts that I responded to "virtually", that was one of them. Some of what I was going to say is above. So this is actually my second post on the subject.

We got a new van. Well actually *I* got my W a new van. Lot's of deposits there, but that's old stuff now (still smells new though). Our first really new car, as opposed to "new to us".

We seem to be "over" yesterday. Still don't know why DW did my laundry. Had to go back to work again tonight, D9 asked me if I was going out mad again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> S14 told DW yesterday that I must've gone out to a bar drinking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> At least DW knew where I was. We didn't even have a real "fight." Of course, we've never had a real fight so the kids really don't know what one looks like.

Hmmm... how to really get back on her good side... maybe some senseless cuddling (oops.. that's what *I* like)
Make the bed? already do that.

Ah, dishes that's the thing. The boys are supposed to do the dishes. S16 hasn't been doing them and DW does them instead. She HATES doing dishes, plus after fighting with S16 about them she's double MAD. I was a professional dishwasher once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> so that's my bailiwick. Missed my chance tonight - I'm a sloth.

Gonna need more ideas.

Thanks for bopping in,

Jeffers