Cautious: I have, along with many others, responded to you with the "been there done thats" and you choose to continue to justify.

I have pictures of my DH and DS on my desk at work. I talk to him daily (I did at the time before and during the A). Also, the OM had pictures of his W in his truck. Hell he talked to her when I was around sometimes. We were both married, we were both happy, we were just friends, we were not looking, we didn't expect nor want it to happen - BUT IT DID!

I will say it once more - TALK TO YOUR WIFE! Let her know that you feel it is nothing but that with everything going on with your brother you thought it best to talk to her and get her thoughts. Let her know that if she is in any way uncomfortable with it that you will not have lunches with this woman - AND THEN DO JUST THAT. You can still talk at work, be work type friends, and maybe even get together with your wife and her husband. However, you really need to take into consideration your wifes thoughts on this and respect them.

If your wife feels uncomfortable, for whatever reason, you should respect that. If this woman is any type of friend she will respect that as well. Just simply tell her (the woman at work) that your wife is uncomfortable with you going to lunch with her and you think it best if it doesn't continue. Maybe sometime our two families can get together and everyone can be comfortable with it.

That's it from me. I have offered this a number of times. Stop justifying. Stop trying to get someone to say - you're right, there's nothing wrong here, you are fine, keep doing it - it won't happen. Well, maybe it will to shut you up, because you are simply justifying and not really taking into account all the pain people are offering to share with you. Please, take off the rose colored glasses and really read what is being written to you. If you have any value for your wife and marriage, you will do just that.

My best to you.

Why are you holding on to these innocent lunches so tightly...if it is nothing and never will be then let it go. Should be no problem. Maybe you are sensitive because of your brother's situation...but sensative is not paranoid. You havent crossed the line in your mind but buddy, but your toe is getting awefully close. Every rebuttle you make is to defend and justify. No one is accusing you. But havent you ever been in a situation where you just thought, "Man if only someone would have told me before I wouldnt be in this mess." Everyone is telling you. And maybe it would never be you but what about this woman. She is definitely using you to put smiles on her face. Innocently or not. Do you want to be the guy in her mind to compare her husband with even if it happens without your knowledge. Even if you never would cross the line. It is only in TV movies of the week where vixen's target innocent married men to seduce. It is only in TV movies on the week where Don Juan's seduce innocent married women. Reality is...THE LUNCH BUDDY is the prime candidate for an affair. Although people here have a bond we honestly dont need any more among us. If we can save others from what we have been through we would...but it comes down to will you save yourself?

Someone said that my toe is close to the line. How do you know when it is crossed? Today she emailed me a messge that said something like she gets energey and bouyancy from the friendship. is that crossing the line?
I told her that the friendship is fun but I wasn't flirting or anything. This seems to have gone from 0 to 100 in a matter of daysw. Or maybe I am just seeing it through my borhters eyes.
I told my wife I go to lunch with people from work and that is not a secret. The woman calls her husband from her desk at work and talks with him.
do I just tell the woman no more lunches? That makes me look kind of weird to be cold after knowing her for two y ears.
I can honestly say that no line has been crossed. If my wife says to keep going to lunch, I can do that?
I dont know what to turn to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone said that my toe is close to the line. How do you know when it is crossed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you share intimate, warm emotions with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Today she emailed me a messge that said something like she gets energey and bouyancy from the friendship. is that crossing the line?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. She has revealed her emotion that you make her energetic and bouyant. Your EA is off and running.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her that the friendship is fun but I wasn't flirting or anything. This seems to have gone from 0 to 100 in a matter of daysw. Or maybe I am just seeing it through my borhters eyes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello??? Earth to cautious!!! You are playing with fire and you are about to get burned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told my wife I go to lunch with people from work and that is not a secret. The woman calls her husband from her desk at work and talks with him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what? My WW didn't stop calling me just because she was having an Emotional Affair. Your wife trusts you not to have inappropriate friendships with other women. Have you told her specifically you are going out to lunch with one woman - just the two of you? That you are sharing warm, intimate feelings with each other? Your relationship with this woman is inappropriate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">do I just tell the woman no more lunches?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Unless there are others with you. Never just the two of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That makes me look kind of weird to be cold after knowing her for two years.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How wierd will you look when you fall in love with her? How wierd will you look when you violate your marriage vows? What is more important, your wife and your wedding vows, or 'looking wierd?' (By the way, you won't look 'wierd.') There is no need to be cold at all. Just start bringing others along and never, ever be alone with her again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can honestly say that no line has been crossed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with you. You two have crossed the line, and unless you stop it NOW, you will keep sliding down the slippery slope into untold misery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If my wife says to keep going to lunch, I can do that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. Be a good man. Do the right thing by your wife. She either doesn't understand the danger, or you are misleading her as to the true nature of your relationship with that woman.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont know what to turn to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen to us! Please!!! Save yourself, your wife, your friend and her husband from absolute misery. We know of what we speak. We here have unwillingly become experts in this area, and we KNOW what we are talking about!

Thanks for coming here! I hope I am not coming off as too hard on you, but I wish someone had told my WW's OM what I am telling you.

NSST

<small>[ September 11, 2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Not So Sad Tiger ]</small>

Hi, Cautious. I haven't replied to you before, but I was wondering if you've decided how to handle this "lunch" issue.

I think the others have covered how EAs begin, etc., so I'll just stick to your questions of how to tell the woman you can't do lunch anymore.

I work in an office with 5 men, and have worked with several of these men for over 18 years. As close friends as we are, these men DO NOT ask me to lunch alone, and I would never dream of suggesting such either. It is simply not appropriate. Old school? Perhaps, but true. There are a couple of business male ex-employees that call me for lunch every few months, but they WILL NOT invite me unless there is at least one other person present. If that other person has to cancel, then the lunch doesn't happen. Personally, I think it is very sweet and gallant of them to guard my reputation like that.

If you simply say to this woman "Look, I realize our friendship is innocent, but I think it would be more appropriate if we didn't go out alone anymore. It just doesn't look right, and I'm afraid someone might get the wrong idea." Or tell her that you and your wife have made an agreement, borne out of respect for eachother, that you wouldn't visit alone with people of the opposite sex. If her intentions in furthering your friendship are innocent, she should appreciate your obvious respect for her and your wife.

I could tell you that meeting alone for lunch or just a break is exactly how all 3 affairs in my marriage started...but my fellow MBers have already covered that. If you were positive that woman doesn't mean more to you than any other business friend, you would've dropped the lunches when you first had felt that internal yellow light.

Best of luck to you.

Lori

I got this message from the woman I have been going to lunch with. Could a woman explain what this means.

She siad this is like a "platonic crush."

Platonic means just friends, right?

I'm not a woman, but the phrase "platonic crush" is an oxymoron. (It does sound like a good name for a band!) Dude, this is trouble! Don't ever be alone with her again!

NSST

I don't think I have ever been so confused. A month ago this was a woman I would talk with in the halls. We might trade a joke. People were always around.
She is not the flirty type. Not the best lookin woman at work. Is conservative. Has pictures of her husband and kids on her desk. She talks to her husband during the day.
Something seems different and I cant figure out why. It seems impossible for someone to say hello one week and then hae a relationship the next. I think I've been seeing too many lifetime channel shows or listenign to my brother story.
Someone on here said an emotianal affair is when you exhcnage feelings. That has not happened.

Uh, Cautious, that means you're meeting some of the EN's her husband should be meeting. It is also a very obvious sign that she wants to have an emotional affair with you. She just proved that she's not the sort of person you should be involved with. You sound pretty smart, so I know you have enough sense to realize that. But then, I had enough sense and continued on with an EA that went PA...so I KNOW from whence I speak!

The very fact that she would TELL you something personal like that is a HUGE sign that she's not happy at home and is looking for someone to fill her needs. Don't let it be you. Please.

Lori

I am thinking more about all this. This woman is the last person to be involved with anyone. Three are women at work that everyone knows are having affiars. But this woman is quiet and loves her husband. She is not the kind of woman to have an affiar.
I am not trying to say Ishould keep going to lunch. It just seems I might be overreacting. She is like a librarian type of woman.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cautious:
<strong>I got this message from the woman I have been going to lunch with. Could a woman explain what this means.

She siad this is like a "platonic crush."

Platonic means just friends, right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope ... it is not just a freind, it means I don't love you but I am in love w/ you. Confuse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ... yeap this is a fog talking. I AM NOT A WOMAN BUT I COULD TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE AN EA. I could bet you any $$$ that if you stop having lunch w/ her she will missed you or worst you also miss her too.

If you care about your M and about her & her M ... you should tell her that this is not good and both of you should do NC for a while (6 months) and get your wife's help during withdrawal.

My WW starts w/ complaining to 10 years older b@st@rd than her (she thought it is safe) ... this predator took advantage of her and here we are at the point of no return.

Read Private Lies by Frank Pittman ... he has tons of stats about infidelity.

-RH-

<small>[ September 12, 2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Now I am even more confused!!
A person does not love me, but is in love with me? What does that mean. It does not seem posible

My opinion: She's in love with the undivided attention and admiration she gets from you.

Obviously she's not getting those needs filled at home. It is not your place to fill them. I repeat: It is not your place to fill them. Do not meet with her privately again. So maybe it would stay all innocent...but maybe it wouldn't. Is spending time with that co-worker really worth the risk of losing your wife's love and respect. Nah!

Lori

I am not giving her undivided attention and admiration. Just lunch. How could she think I am giving her that?

Here's the view from a woman's (also a former WS, mind you) perspective:

When you go to lunch alone, you sit and talk to her, just her, and that makes her feel important and appreciated. She sees that you are genuinely interested in what she is saying - even if it is just office stuff - and it makes her feel good. Women LOVE that. You ask her to go to lunch - or say 'yes' when she asks you - so she knows you like being with her, and that makes her feel special.

See what I mean? Women are NOT the same as men, Cautious. It isn't always just meaningless office socializing to a woman.

Lori

Cautious,

PLEASE stop seeing this woman alone.

A guy *JUST LIKE YOU* who was 'just friends' with my quiet, non flirty, pictures on her desk, loved me, called me every day - wife - began to fill a need she had that I wasn't filling. Attention. Dude, you give her attention and admiration when you go to lunch. It may be 'just lunch' to you, but she looks forward to those lunches with you with great anticipation. You can bet that she thinks about you when she is at home, wishing her husband could pay attention to her like you do.

Sooner or later she will reveal to you some of her marital issues or problems she has with her husband. When, not if, but when that happens, you think about ol' Not So Sad Tiger, and all this crazy stuff he said to you that you can't believe. You remember that I warned you that she would do exactly that. I can tell you each step of the way what will happen after that point. Wanna test me? Keep going to lunch with her alone and sooner or later you will find out first hand what it is like to break your wife's heart.

Sincerely,

NSST

p.s. How would you feel if your wife came home from work and told you about her private lunches with her 'platonic crush??'

<small>[ September 12, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Not So Sad Tiger ]</small>

Come on,

This is a no brainer! DUH!

Here is how you figure this out. You want a woman's opinion, right?

Print out all emails, write down word for word any phone conversations, IM's, any other communications. Gather all this info including all that both of you have said at work, at lunch, wherever, whenever.

There is ONE WOMAN ON THIS EARTH who can decide for you and OW if any of this is OK. It doesnt MATTER if OW wants to behave this way. It doesnt MATTER if YOU want to behave this way. The only person whose feelings about and opinions of this situation MATTER is your WIFE. Ask her if all this is OK with HER. Bet you big bucks you dont have the guts.

You are being TEMPTED and you know that and so does OW.

hi cautious,

you are getting a whole lot of advice here from people who have "been there dun that" or are in your wife's position.

why are you so confused??

OW ( other woman since she is not your wife ) has admitted to a "platonic crush" on you. What are you waiting for?? the crush to move beyond platonic?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Replaced is giving you a way to test yourself in this situation...why not let your wife decide with full and frank disclosure of course

sorry for the plain speaking but you don't seem to be able to hear or want to hear anything that says you should not contact this woman anymore.

when she says "platonic crush" which word do you focus on? "platonic" because that sounds innocent and nothing "wrong" is going on so why on maintain the status quo right?

Let's focus on "crush" what does that say to you? you are right to be cautious...

Be honest and open with your wife communicate your fears to her...you do have fears right? that is why you are here...

save yourself and your wife a whole lot of heartache...protect your marriage from any potential threat. And don't fool yourself into thinking this isn't a potential threat...IT IS...

I'm a new poster here myself, cautious, but I can see the signs myself--plenty of them. I think you're too involved already and don't want to see them. Open your mind, think of your W and family and listen to what I'm saying PLEASE!!!

1. "Later she said she had never had a friend quite like me." from your very first post. This is your first warning sign. Her H may be the type if guy that doesn't notice things like a new haircut or doesn't compliment her on them. You obviously stepped in here and gave her the "ego booster" she was needing or the friend comment would have never happened.

2. "She said me a message saying that our frienship entered a new stage." This is your second warning. A regular friendship doesn't enter a "new stage" just because you start eating lunch together. This woman and you are both headed towards an affair and I hope you take the time to think things over and talk to your wife soon. There must be needs you have that your wife is not meeting just like lunch buddy has needs that her H is not meeting.

3. "It was just this lunch that seemed to make something differnent." Well things are progressing (in a very bad direction) and you are beginning to see it whether you want to admit it or not.

4. "Today she emailed me a messge that said something like she gets energey and bouyancy from the friendship. is that crossing the line?" YES, YES, YES this is crossing the line. I believe you know it also, but maybe don't want to admit it.

5. "I told my wife I go to lunch with people from work and that is not a secret." I notice you didn't mention that you go to lunch with a specific person--made this very general. That makes me think that you are half-assing it by only teling her part of the story. Another warning sign, but this one is on your end.

6. "I can honestly say that no line has been crossed." That's only because you are not "listening" to all these people that have been there before and know where it's heading. I, being a female, used to work in an office with a bunch of men. Most of them were old enough to be my father or grandfather and acted like it, but the only time I went to lunch with anyone of the opposite sex it was when a whole group of people when out for lunch. I also know where these relationships can lead so I'm very careful and "cautious" (lol, sorry couldn't resist) when talking one-on-one with male co-workers. I'm in a new office now and there are only two of us---me and the boss (old man--don't know how old but his hair is falling out and gray, lol). I'm having to try to work and overcome the uneasy feelings about being alone in an office all day with a male (regardless of his age). I've seen this happen so many times in my life - not just with my H; seen it with friends also plenty of times.

7. "She siad this is like a "platonic crush." " This is only getting deeper and deeper. There is no such thing as a platonic crush--those two words don't even belong together. Yes, platonic means friends, but crush doesn't have anything to do with being friends. Things are starting to get really hot and you're going to get burned if you don't protect yourself and your marriage NOW.

8. "But this woman is quiet and loves her husband. She is not the kind of woman to have an affiar. I am not trying to say Ishould keep going to lunch. It just seems I might be overreacting. She is like a librarian type of woman." Your last post...I'm sorry to say but it reeks. You are growing attached to this woman and don't want to stop your lunches with her. I don't know what need she is feeling, but if both of you are "married and happy" as you say this relationship needs to end NOW.

I hate to say this, but IMO if you wanted to end these lunchs you could very easily. You have enough right now to tell her that this is getting way too close and you don't think that the both of you need to be going to lunch together anymore. It may sound drastic, but you may want to pull back some on the office contact--maybe just say hi when passing in the hall and no more e-mails unless they are work-related.

Also, not to slam you, but I have to add that you seem to know what you're doing is wrong (regardless of your brother's situation) and you've been given plenty of great direction on this board to prove it. You won't stop it for some reason though. I think this lady is filling some need your W is not and you need to STOP RIGHT NOW AND TALK TO YOUR WIFE!!!! It's your decision ultimately, but you came here asking for advice and now you don't seem willing to take it. Your defending your "right" to have lunches with her and this scares me for your marriage. Read all you can on the MB site especially the emotional needs section. You say you're married and happy, but that can always be improved, right?

Just my thoughts,

Hey cautious,

At least give your wife a link to this site if you won't stop seeing your 'lunch buddy.' She is going to need it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

NSST