Wow- had a lunch date yesterday with ws.

Had dinnr w/ ws and spent the nite there too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> No gf's right now... the last ow has been gone a few months.

Very few lbs. I messed up a little, but all in all came out well. We are giong to a concert tonite! WOW!

kids are with parents, i was suppossed to work all weekend, but am only working some now due to these developments.

Ws apologized for being so hostile, sd I am cute, and sd he wants to be my boyfriend.

he sang the song far away that has a lot of words about coming home in it.... hey let me see if I can post it...

I did it____

Far Away Written by Marty Stuart

Fields are deathly quiet
Where the cotton used to grow
I'm a stranger in a land
That I used to know
In a land
A land I've not forgotten
Look away
Far Away

Everything has changed here
"Cept some things inside of me
I've hid 'em from the world
Kept them under lock and key
Like the sound of my mama's voice
Callin' me back home
To the place
Where I belong

Far Away
Far Away
Don't know why I left you
And look how long I've stayed
Far away
Far away
How'd I get so far away

Carved my name one Sunday morning
On a sweet magonia tree
I cried when I walked away
Broke my heart to leave
Took that little piece of me
Put it in my pocket
I've lost myself a time or two
And I never once forgot it

Far away
Far away
Don't know why I left you
And look how long I've stayed
Far away
Far away
How'd I get so far away

Far away
Far away
Don't know why I left you
But look how long I've stayed
Far away
Far away
How'd I get so far away
How did I get so far away

It was quite sweet, and it does melt a girls heart to be sung to with your h playing the guitar. it was very sweet, I sd not a word about the words, etc. Just yes I like the song... and it sounds good... he doesn't want me to get any ideas here.

he also talked about how he doesnt think he can live with me again, etc. Sd I would have to do everything his way if we live together again... wow! fog land!

I reversed babbled some,a nd that was great..

f.e. ws says "I dont trust you"
honey- "i dont trust you"

thanks O, it was great! he looked confused!

hugs, Honey

About that reverse babble: ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Perfect! Good job! Keep it up!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Honey - good for you - but tread lightly - don't put to much on this turn of events that way if something goes wrong again you won't be so devastated - What brought on the sudden change??? Is he not drinking??? Has he decided that he has a problem and he is going to address it??? Why the sudden turn around??? Let me know - I will be praying that he is getting back on the right track....

Honey,

I'm with maw64, enjoy it for the moment but don't get your expectations up. And why? has he quit drinking? Is he in AA? Let us know~!

D.

what happened to the skin test you were in all week end? wasn't that to get money that your wh doesn't give you?

Hey Honey - OK I was just checking in to see if you had posted what happened last night or may still be happening this morning - I will check back later - I hope all is going well - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!! Mimi

Hi Honey!

WOW! He is quite the charmer hugh? Before getting your hopes up watch for consistency though. You sound like you handled the conversation well.

Good luck!

Hey Honey - Hello I am waiting to see what has happened - hello update... Mimi

Hi guys - No internet at home this weekend... and did spend most of it with him. I missed the skin test due to ws invite to spend time with him, and most went well. lbed a bit in a reality type situation, but not too much. All in all mad e love deposits that were much needed. No, he is not sober, but was some of the time, and not ever beligerently drunk this weekend.

I do think his brokeness and troubles that keep hitting him without me are a wakeup call.

he has lots of anger. As the wife of an alcoholic there are times I believe I mistakenly tough loved way too much. he has been locked out of our home on many occassion, I have kicked him out of a car for cussing and yelling and left him somewhere... thinking he would get a cab... - but I found out this wkend he thinks me cruel for this... i went home and did not answer the phone.. I was very annoyed and very tough love oriented. I was trying to MAKE HIM behave.

I have learned that doesnt work.

I got an I love you or two on sat. The first one could of been nicer. the one that came later was nicer.

Whst else, He says he is still afraid of working this out, but says there is hope, possibility. Last ow he still wont admit to, but she has been gone a few months.

He had a few jokes about his cheating, and i did not like them...

all in all he was sweet. not as sweet as he once was, but I will give it time.

he sd he did not want to be whipped like he used to be by me. OH boy! I know I was too mean, but ... whatever. Man talk , man langauge I guess.

I am all in all more calm after some positives. I will keep my distance, andI know this will take time, and may not even happen. I think he is more willing to perhaps work on things as HE SEES ME CHANGING!

thanks for being here, gotta go to work, Honey

Honey,

There is a difference between Tough Love, which I haven't seen you practice, and Control/Manipulation (trying to MAKE him behave, punishing him like a child, etc).

Please don't make the mistake on confusing the two. Tough Love is about boundaries for self and is a healthy thing. Control and Manipulation and Punishment is always wrong.

In taking care of YOU, there will be consequences that happen to him. Right now, it seems to me that you are trying to appease him into coming home, by capitulating to all his demands. That means that YOU are being harmed.

You are very worried about your money situation and were working this weekend to make up the difference. So what happened to that?

Call me cynical...but it sounds like he was broke and needed someone to fund his drinking for the weekend. Please don't tell me that you spent money that you don't have on his fun instead of working to make up for the money you need for your kids?

Honey -
OK I am with BrambleRose - did you spend money this weekend trying to make him happy so that he would come home - when you needed the money to survive?? See I had somewhat of the same problem with my husband he always felt like I was his mother - that I was always correcting him or telling him what he can and can't do - and in some ways he was correct but I also look at it from the view that you know what he acted like a child !!! See I think that the root of your problem is his alchoism and yet you didn't see anything wrong with him while he was drinking this weekend as long as he wasn't trashed - If he is an alcholic then he isn't going to change until he wants to change for himself - you cannot do that for him !!! - Do you really want him back if he is still drinking??? He needs to stop that first - then you two can work on your marriage !!!! Right I mean is he taking any steps to recovering??? Has he admitted that he has a drinking problem??? Is he going to go to AA????

hello, BR, I know my slang def. of tough love is not correct, sorry. I was typing quickly and that came to my mind... that is kind of what I thought I was doing at the time, but at the time I lbed all o ver the place and made many mistakes in how I treated my alcoholic.

I prefer to detach with love, I cant make him stop drikning- and I can take him back still drinking and struggling with some changes.

It is my choice to live with or without the alcoholic.

Our problems were deeper than the alcholiss, but with that as the root... yes.

I know it is a baffling situation, but I still want my husband, drinking or not.

now flame me.

h

Honey -

No is going to flame you - you are being very defensive - I have a question or two because I am trying to figure all of this out - I am trying to figure out - what makes us the BS hang in there and take all of this abuse - OK - Did you ever stop and ask yourself - Why do I want him??? Do I really need him??? Can I make a better life for me and my children??? What is this doing to my children???
Now ok - I know that I love my husband and I also know that I can live without him but I don't want to - but I also know that my children are to important to me - to continue living with someone who does not want to be married to me... My children deserve to have at least one sane parent whose top priority is their well being...I don't ever want my girls to go through a situation like this and I also want them to know that I did everything I could and that their dad made the ultimate decision... So how long have you been living like this??? I mean my situation started last October - that I found out - but he had been cheating on me since around about last april - but you know what I also know that I am worthy to be loved - and that I will make someone a wonderful spouse....

Honey -

No is going to flame you - you are being very defensive - I have a question or two because I am trying to figure all of this out - I am trying to figure out - what makes us the BS hang in there and take all of this abuse - OK - Did you ever stop and ask yourself - Why do I want him??? Do I really need him??? Can I make a better life for me and my children??? What is this doing to my children???
Now ok - I know that I love my husband and I also know that I can live without him but I don't want to - but I also know that my children are to important to me - to continue living with someone who does not want to be married to me... My children deserve to have at least one sane parent whose top priority is their well being...I don't ever want my girls to go through a situation like this and I also want them to know that I did everything I could and that their dad made the ultimate decision... So how long have you been living like this??? I mean my situation started last October - that I found out - but he had been cheating on me since around about last april - but you know what I also know that I am worthy to be loved - and that I will make someone a wonderful spouse....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hello, BR, I know my slang def. of tough love is not correct, sorry. I was typing quickly and that came to my mind... that is kind of what I thought I was doing at the time, but at the time I lbed all o ver the place and made many mistakes in how I treated my alcoholic.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, I used to think that's what Tough Love was too. I did alot of really awful stuff to my husband under the self-righteous attitude that I was gonna straighten him out, or that he deserved it. I was busy being right, and ironically, I was so very very WRONG.

The reason why I jumped in here was because I don't want people to think that Tough Love is what you described it to be. Tough Love is healthy. What you described wasn't and should be called self-righteous Control and Manipulation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I prefer to detach with love, I cant make him stop drikning- and I can take him back still drinking and struggling with some changes.

It is my choice to live with or without the alcoholic..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are awfully defensive about this. Who has said you can't take him back?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it is a baffling situation, but I still want my husband, drinking or not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one has said that you shouldn't want your husband.

Thats the problem though - just because you WANT it, doesn't mean you can make reality match.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">now flame me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No flames here.

But I just want to point out that what you call "Detaching with Love" is really appeasement and enabling.

What is it that you are afraid of? What is your biggest fear? What is keeping you from taking care of yourself and your children, and keeping you in place where you and your children are being harmed? You are right - it is your choice. And it's your choices that are harming you - NOT your husband's.

I just want to remind you - I am still with an active alcoholic. So I'm hardly someone to stand up and insist that you leave him until he quits drinking. The difference between you and I however, is that I learned what it meant to face my fears, talk back to them, to truely detach with love, to stop enabling my husband's disease, and how to draw boundaries to protect myself. That's why I am in recovery with my husband.

What you describe in this thread is not progress. What you are describing is a broke drunk, who was between girlfriends, and who needed funds for his fix. So he put up with you for a weekend.

And you spent money you didn't have and didn't work hours that you needed to in order to take care of your number one responsiblity, your children.

You won't file for divorce to protect your children financially because you are afraid you'll lose him. Ok. That's your choice. BUT, then you come here and complain about it. You are NOT a victim anymore Honey, you are choosing to remain in this situation.

You had some good plans to help yourself and your kids financially. That sounded like a good choice to me.

But when your H beckoned, you dropped everything for him. That's your choice too. But will you be back here again complaining later that he won't financially support you, and you are broke?

This is not detachment Honey, this is flat out denial and fear on your part.

I'm sorry that this is coming across so harsh. But you seem to be sinking into more and more of your own fog, driven by fear.

One thing that I learned in Al-Anon was that decisions based on fear often have the self-fulfilling tendency to turn out exactly as I feared.

Appeasing your husband at your own expense and harm won't fix your marriage Honey.

Honey, I am the wife of an alcoholic also, the difference being that my husband has been in AA for over 20 years, so I know what you are feeling now. I went thought the same things very early in our marriage due to his drinking. He would spend his pay check on drinking, he could not hold a job, he never got fired he always quit before they let him go, he would rather spend time with his friends at the bar then be at home with me and our new baby. I can remember locking him out, taking the car keys, dumping his beer down the drain, all to try and stop him from drinking. I would fight with him, not speak to him for days until he cryed and begged me to forgive him and promised to be a better husband and father. That never lasted long, after a few days he was drinking again, and even when I thought he wasn't he was. Nothing worked. Until I finally told him when he was sober that I was not going to let our daughter grow up with a drunk for a father. I told him get help or he would loss the both of us, never see us again. I packed up all the babies things and mine and told him he could let me know what he wanted to do. That day he called AA for help and has not had a drink since. What I am tying to tell you is you have to make up your mind what you want. If you take him back as he is now you will never have a happy life and neither will he or your kids. He has to loss everything, hit rock bottom to really see that he needs help. I know that it is very hard to do, believe me I love my husband with all my heart and always have. Telling him that I was going to leave him and never see him again was the hardest thing to do, but what kind of life would my daughter and I have had? A life were my daughter would be afraid to bring her friends home because her father could be drunk and her friends could see? A life were we would never have anything we wanted or needed because he was spending all our money on drinking? I could not live like that or do that to our daughter. You also have to remember that a drunk will do things while drinking that he would not do sober. Your husband's ow go along with his drinking. My husband was going though a MLC when he had his A. He wanted to prove he was still young and wanted to get back the excitment he felt when he was drinking. He knew that if he took a drink he would not be able to stop and everyone would know, so he did the next best thing, he had an A. He stopped going to his AA meetings too. He got all the excitement he had from drinking, he was lying and doing things in secret just like when he was drinking. During his A he was what is called a dry drunk, that is someone who does not drink but has all the same attitudes of a drunk. Thank God his A ended and he is going to his AA meetings again. We started MC when he ended the A and he is also going to IC. He is a NYC Police Officer and was at the WTC on 9/11/01 were he was hurt and is also suffering from PTSD so we have been thought a lot this past 16 months but things are getting better. I understand that you love your husband and that you want him and your marriage, but you have to stop and think about what this is doing to you and your kids. Have you gone to any al-anon meetings? I know its hard to hear everyone tell you to dump him, forget him unless he stops drinking, believe me I heard it all from everyone. I know that you are hurt and confussed, I understand what you are feeling, I really do. I understand your pain, you want your kids to have a father and you want the man you love, the man he is when he is sober. I know my husband was so great to me when he was sober, but when he drank he could be mean and hurtful. He would start fights just so he could walk out and go to the bar. He did the same thing while he was having his A, he would call me from work and start a fight on the phone so he could say he was going to just work late and stay at work. I know now that it was so he could spend the night at the ow's house. What I am trying to tell you is there is help for your husband if he wants it, but he has to admit that he has a problem before he can get the help. You taking him back while he is still drinking will not help him. What you do is really up to you, I hope I have not hurt you by anything I have said. That is the last thing I wanted to do, I just wanted to let you know that things can get better and that there is help for you and your husband if you want it. I will pray for you and your kids and pray that your husband can find the doors to an AA meeting. The people that my husband and I have met these past 20 years have been the best friends you could ever ask for. They are always there for us, at any hour of the day or night, willing to help with whatever problem we have. God Bless you and your family, Ellyn

Honey,

BR said so well what I was thinking. Sorry.

don't take your H back just to have him back.

While all of you have great points I'm afraid they will fall on deaf ears or angry ears anyway. I've watched Honey's postings since she got here and I can say that this is what she wants. It's fairly obvious to anyone that the health of the relationship is not important but rather just having the relationship is enough. Time after time she's eaten crap from this man and taken it, just willing to do anything to get him back.

If you call her on it she'll pull some sort of insulted Southern honor thing and tell you how mean you are and how she's not used to such rude people. Funny, she can put up with a ton of real rudeness from her h but a little lay it on the line advice and she's ready to spit ya' and grill ya'

Honey, I'm sorry but you're frustrating. Plain and simple. You don't look at things with an eye towards surivial or reality. You threw away a weekend's work to play house with your WH, is he home now? Do you have enough money to pay the bills? Does it matter as long as he calls? Will he cough up some money for you this week or will he cry poverty again?

He's had no OW for months now? Uh...that maid's photo was not posted that long ago so either he's making up imaginary OW or he's not being 100% honest.

You're free to make your own choices but if you post them for all the world to see expect people to respond and not all favorably. Yes, this is MB but even Harley would not advise you to stick around in this case. Not until the drinking stops. But then, you're okay with the drinking as long as he's home, right? That's what I get from your posts.

Sorry, flame me, whatever. I had to say it because it's painful to watch you. It truly is and I feel for all the posters who've been trying to get through to you to no avail. I'm only watching this happen and I feel frustrated I can imagine what they feel. Sometimes watching you post gives me the same feeling I would imagine I would have watching someone ram their head into a brick wall over and over again.

Good luck Honey, I truly hope that he does come around and if not that you pull yourself together and watch out for you and those kids.

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</small>

Honey,
It was a good time, nothing more. And that's ok if that's what you want...just a good time with a guy who tells you he loves you when he's been drinking. I know that's a huge improvement over his cruelty that it probably seems quite nice.

And, I hate to throw reality into your happy view of the weekend, but I assume "spent the night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> " means you had sex with him? I posted to you the last time, before the maid, if are intimate with him, you have to use protection. He hasn't had a clear STD screen, right? Be smart.

Honey, I wish as much as anyone that this is a first step toward reconciliation for the 2 of you. Simply deciding you want your H, no matter his behavior, his addictions, is a choice you can make...but it's one that will be difficult to live with, you know that, right?

You people can't get into my head, and you don't really know my husband or me. You see some of posts and think you know the whole situation, when the truth is some of what is said is raw emotion or just angst.

I again feel driven away from MB. I had a wonderful weekend.

I come here FOR SUPPORT and friendship, not YOU ARE WRONG And you SHOULD Do what I say.. .and YOU are messing up because I see me in you.

Everyone is talking from their perspectives, and does not completely know mine.

I see I have been flamed for taking some real steps toward recovery in my marriage. BUT... this might as well be divorce builders in my case for listening to you guys. Just because I say my h is alcoholic doesnt mean he is what you people imagine.

H

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>