...and she's off. Saw that one coming a mile away. Of course we're talking from our perspectives, what else should we talk from? Also, perhaps it is because we are not embroiled in this drama and you h's alcoholism that we may be able to see things more clearly than you can right now. Usually when a person is going through this crap they can't see the forest for the trees, that's why so many therapists have jobs.

You know what Honey, people here are reacting to the pattern we see pretty damned clearly. That you are able to paint such a pretty picture of what is a crappy situation shows something very profound about your relationship. This man has you so dependant on him you're willing to eat anything he shoves down your throat and get pissed off at anyone that tells you he might just be playing you for a fool or he may let you down or to at least be careful.

He says he wants to be your boyfriend, that's sweet. Now, considering you two are married and he has two kids he doesn't support don't you find that offensive? Doesn't that bother you at all? It should, he has responsibilities that don't include your relationship, those kids, and what he feels about you should have no bearing on his support of them.

It's nice you'd like your marriage back but you're going to pay a hefty price for it and already are. It's pretty obvious that you have no ability to separate yourself from him in any way(not physically but mentally) or excercise basic surivial skills, you leap for every crumb he tosses you. That you have two young boys that are probably learning quite the lesson from daddy on how to treat women is very scary. They're watching and learning, don't be mistaken.

I'm sorry but I can't gingerly step around you anymore. You and he do the same things over and over and over. This is not MB, this is a co-dependency dance being led by an umemployed alcoholic who's focused on himself. Those two innocent children are the ones that are going to be hurt in the end, you and your h's behavior will have an impact on them in their future relationships and their children. That's a shame, it truly is.

No one's telling you to divorce, but having some sort of boundries would be a good idea.

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</small>

Honey - I dont think anyone is trying to drive you away or judge you for wanting to save your marriage its just that time and time again you complain about how bad he is or how little money you have and then as soon as he gives you just a hint of attention you drop everything and forgive him for all the heart ache and pain he has caused you and run back into his arms.. I think more than anything we are frustrated and afraid for you... I know you love your H - were all here for the same reason, looking for a way to make our marriages better and recover from an A and to try and grow as independant people. I havent posted much lately but have been following your story because to be honest I dont want to be like you... My WH is home and things are much better right now and I have hope for recovery but I dont want to make him my whole life, I want to be able to say I can make it on my own, That I love him and I want him in my life but I dont need him.

No one wants you to leave, MB is designed to help and that is what everyone is trying to do - is help you... we dont want to see you get your hopes up to high just to have them crushed again... just go slow, be careful and take care of yourself and those children first because in the end they are all that really matters.. men can be replaced but your children are your children for life.

Good luck.

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: rdvpmm ]</small>

Honey - Don't run away - people are just trying to help you - sometimes it is easier to actually see what someone is trying to say... Sometimes when you see it in print you say oh my god am I really doing that and a lightbulb - goes off - No one is telling you to divorce your husband they are telling you to get away from him until he gets himself better or you and your kids are going to get really hurt in the process - BR is just trying help you with the benefit of her own personal experience - That is one of the reasons that I come here to hear what people have to say that have lived through and survived my experience.. The cold hard truth is we might not like what they have to say but truthfully if they have lived through it they probably know what they are talking about... You should not run away and hide - this really is a support place but people I guess sometimes get aggravated seeing you or anyone else for that matter going down the same path over and over... To be honest I read your posts it is ok that I am getting divorced because I do not want to live with that pain. I have tried to fix it - but he wasn't a willing participant. I hope that you post back - don't go into hiding - prove everyone wrong.... Mimi

People get aggravated because she is very quick to turn on everyone when her bubble is burst and people tell her things she may not want to hear. Sure, everyone might be wrong but it's better to arm yourself considering his past behavior.

BR is always giving her good advice and yet Honey turns on her as soon as she percieves that her marriage is recovering. It doesn't occur to her that we've read all this before. H comes back, she says it's getting better and takes a lot of the blame for his crappy behavior, blasts us all as idiots and meanies when we say "be careful" in any way and then next week the cycle starts anew.

Yes this is a support group but support doesn't mean turning a blind eye to possible dangers. I'm not sure what you expect from this place, MB does not support saving a marriage at all costs.

How about for those of you who have been in her situation, with the WS being an alcoholic, tell her exactly how she goes about setting boundaries with love, not just say, "you need to have boundaries".

I think it would be very beneficial to her and others to know exactly how to do this. I think only when you have done it plus saved your marriage, you have the key.

Please, let's have some real examples on how exactly you handled your situation, or maybe post a link to a thread that explains this.

There is probably alot of lurkers out there, in the same exact position as Honey, who have been following her story, but are afraid to post. We as BS's don't have all the answers, we would love too, but don't.

How exactly do you set boundaries without LBing??

Boundries without LB's? It's called Plan B, posted on this website and in the books.

I'm sorry to be harsh but I am worried for what those two young men are seeing and learning. They will be men one day with relationships of their own. To me, the kids in this situation are paramount.

Honey - Come out Come out wherever you are - !! Please do not hide - Nduli 2 - Wow you really tell it like it is huh??? And I know you mean no disrespect right you are just worried about her children and the path she is taking them on right ??? Honey you must come and talk - !! Now to the LB- thing how many times does he LB you ??? I mean come on??? We imagine what you tell us - Tell us the whole story maybe we can help - I am truly concerned about you - Actually I am going for my divorce tomorrow and I am not happy but you have given me a diversion - to worry about you instead of me....

oops

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

oops double post

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Ok, I will come out Maw, thanks for caring, some people probably prefer I don't post. I am very honest, yet I still don't post it all. I may post many a bad moment... for that is when I need some serious support.

I am or was... the QUEEN OF LB's. I do need to do some plan a, and JENN CHALMERS advised that after talking to h and I.

I do have some boundaries in place, and I do not take it all (All the cra+).

Things are severely improving from where we have been in this mess. I do not at all think we are in recovery but I did score some love deposits and so did he. Hey that is a baby step.

No, H was not drunk this weekend, he drank some, but no more than an average beer drinking watching football. OK?

He paid for lunch friday, and it was nice.

I did buy a small amount of groceries for us.. that is it. $20 big dollars.

What else, KIDS dont even know I saw dad.

My H does not respond well to ultimatums, and in my case plan b would be a big lb- but I do detach.

You people seem to think that if he doesn't stop drinking there is no chance- BR herself says her h still drinks and many of you respect her approach.

He has been an lb king to me, so have lots of ws. My h is particuarly full of venum. I did get an apology, may of mentioned it for his hostility. WOW! Was that big from him.. being that I know him. It took me being on no lb behavior.

We have both acted like 2 yr olds, no doubt. Spoiled brats with chemical confusion.

There is LONG HISTORY between us with LOTS OF REAL LOVE, and that can survive even what I have been through with this severe case.

I have no plans of his coming home tomorrow, and I did not at all post the WHOLE STORY. OK? SO dont read between the lines.

Parts of the story may look like pure horror to some of you.

I thank those of you who are here for me.

I understand some of your anger towards me or confusion...but until anyone has truly walked in my shoes... you truly dont know the whole situation.

I know there is more I would like to respond to,

but I still , yes... someone out there is right... I dont like harsh judgement.

IMHO-
Suggest- dont tell.. and dont criticize. It is not nice. Anyway, I will stick around, but I hate that some of you want to rain on my progress.

It really was some great progress.. and I am happy about it, NO IT WAS NOT PERFECT.. I wish he would just waltz to counseling and AA.. but I can't make him, and if I try it won't work.

Alanon teaches me to take care of myself, not him. He is being much much nicer, and it was not just because he is broke and didn't have an OW? NOW that is a hurtful comment here on MARRIAGE BUILDERS? and a place where recovering from infidelity and plan a is encouraged.

Maybe some of you dont know all my lb's- but they are a big part of this... befoer and after the A.

Anyway, hope to hear some UPLIFTING COMMENTS> I do have enough hitting me in the stomach right now.

Thanks - H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

PS- I do take good care of my kids and I do provide for us ALONE now, missing a little money this weekend is an issue- but I do work fulltime and do pretty well at that- I am grad. degreed.. I just miss having 2 incomes... and my h used to be a great provider at 100k , but my h is giving me money today.

H

Honey,
I am supporting you, as are many of the other posters on this thread. We're supporting YOU, not every action you take or thought you have. If I didn't care and empathize with your situation, I wouldn't have begun following your story. As I posted, I hope this is the first step to reconciliation. It could be. It could the same same old.

I suspect you're disappointed that your post didn't elicit hoorahs. And I understand that it is more usual to post negatives than postives, so perhaps I have missed some of your good steps, your H's changes in behavior. But to me, one good weekend doesn't mean that any good times you have with your H are leading to a consistant new and positive behavior.

My post to you wasn't intended to hurt, but there's no tiptoeing around STDs. They are a harsh, ugly, possible, very likely result of your H's chosen lifestyle the past year. I'd be doing YOU a disservice by not reminding you to safeguard your health. I notice you didn't protest that you and he have taken care of any worry about STDs.

It doesn't have anything to do with being in your head, or knowing him, your posts are sufficient to know he's not been faithful, or probably careful.

It isn't romantic, it's realistic.

The same with if you reconcile right now, the rough times are not over. Recovery after ongoing affairs plus separations isn't for the squeamish.

You, of course, can leave MB. But if your reason is that we don't understand, it'll take awhile to bring another group up to speed, and no guarantee anybody new will understand any better. I think we're at least trying and caring about you.

And I'd miss you.

Lor, Maw, GoinCrazy, BR, basically everyone, Sing, etc. Sorry if I did not mention you.

I am not going to run away, i did feel like it earlier today.

I am doing better. I know I am not in recovery... for me this was a baby step. I am walking with caution, I know the floor can cave in... my h still is far away.

I had a little happiness with my once best friend. It was nice. T here were dissapointments, even discussions... even some lb's.. but some positive steps, more than in a LONG TIME for me and this marriage. The maid was a big setback.

I hear you LOr on the std issue and I have been tested 2x since this happened... I still know it is a big deal....

Anyway, gotta work... I let my rrunner get turned off at home due to higher up priorities, havent quite got aol on or anything yet... may get rr back in a week.... thinking on this luxury in life.

Anyway, be back later. Thanks for being here in the hard times and the good.

I hope all of you have a wonderful day.

HONEY

Honey - Well I am glad you are back - and you are right we do not know your whole story - but you are right we do only hear the negative - but no one is trying to tell you what to do - they really are just trying to give you advice from their experience - there is no reason to leave - you don't have to do what everyone wants you to do - We all just really want you to protect yourself and realize that you cannot change your husband you can only change yourself and take care of your boys - they are what is important - Your husband must find his own way - !! Maybe he will have to hit rock bottom before he realizes his problems... Good Luck

Honey, even though I don't agree with what you are doing, (and this is not news to you, we've discussed it many times), I want to tell you that I love you and care for you, and I believe you have the right to do what YOU feel is right for you.
Whether doing something different is right for you, (and maybe one day it will be), or if you decide THIS is what YOU want, I respect your decision. And I'll be happy to give you my opinion about it if and when you want me to.
Take care of you and your beautiful children!
A big, big hug!!!

Thanks again friends Lor, Maw, Spacecase:

I am doing better today... was invited to go to family event with Wayward spouse- he is paying, and it is me , him and kids.

I do think that us getting on peaceful terms, Instead of the WARZONE it was.. things will be better... now if there is another ow-
that is another story.. NO MORE PLAN A.

anyway, I appreciate ya'll being here.

I am being careful. His new attitude is very different than the warzone.

He has told me it will take time for me to prove myself ok and safe for him... well, I do see his point from some persepctives..

i.e. locking one's h out of the house on numerous occasions... pulling ow's hair out, etc. losing my temper on numerous occasions throughout the marriage and during this horrid seperation-
my disrespectful judgements are great in number... etc. etc.

I am going to pull out the love busters book again tonight or tommorrow, soon anyway.. I need it.

That is where I have real room to grow.

Gotta work. HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Honey - good for you just don't get your hopes up to high that way you won't get as hurt if something happens - Right?? Well I have just come from court I am divorced but there is a waiting period - And you know what I just cannot hate the jerk - I guess I am going to just have to be friends and get over him... I am glad things are getting better for you....