k9love,
WOW! I'm impressed. Excellent job of sharing your feelings. You were very courageous in what you said.
Let me tell you what my gut feelings are about what you’ve said. Some of them may be right, some may be wrong. Choose the thoughts that fit for you, if any, and discard the rest.
How terribly unfortunate it was that you encountered a counselor that shut down your H so quickly. I can certainly understand his reluctance to go to one again. If I were him I would have reacted exactly the same way.
I THINK I understand what that C was trying to say. But he/she did it very wrong if you ask me. It sounds like what that C was driving at was that in your R it doesn’t really sound like "you're a giver" and "he's a taker". He regularly does things even though you keep telling him “No, that’s not acceptable”. That sounds more like he’s ‘stealing’ than ‘taking’ from you. He's forcing you into situations in which you're not a willing participate. If I ask you to give me $10 and you do, I would be “taking” from you. But if I ask you for $10, you say “no” and I take it from you anyway, that’s stealing. I think that may be what that C was trying to get at. Unfortunately, the C did not handle things well at all where your H was involved.
Having said that, I doubt your H is doing these things to try to hurt you. It sounds more like self-preservation and here's why I say that:
There are two kinds of love directly related to M. Eros (also called romantic) love which is a “taking” love (sometimes referred to in this forum as Elove). And there is also Agape (also called unconditional) love which is a “giving” love (sometimes referred to as Ulove).
You talked about your confusion on classifying your H's actions. Here is my best guess. Your H sounds like he is a good man who has some inner turmoil going on inside him. It sounds like all his life he might have used his charm, charisma, etc. to get attention....positive feedback about himself if you will. Maybe he uses those 'assets' in himself in much the same way that some men use porn or others use alcohol. It gives him a feeling-good feeling. Makes him feel valuable. Being a “hero” (to the renter woman) feels nice.
According to what I’ve heard you say, one time this practice turned into a PA. It might have been when there was more than a usual amount of turmoil in his life since he felt he needed to "get away and find himself". More turmoil means feeling less lovable. And less lovable means a higher opportunity for a full blown A to result. Unfortunately, the A just cycles things downward farther because now he’ll see even more ‘flaws’ in himself and see himself as even less lovable. In other words, he’ll be even less accepting of himself. So can he give you the Ulove (giving love) that you want when he doesn't feel it for himself? No because he can’t give what he doesn’t have.
If any of these thoughts make it easier for you to “understand” his actions, that’s great. But it won't make it any easier for you to tolerate his actions. And since you can't force him to change, that still leaves you with only one option….your focus needs to be on YOU.
I used this analogy in a post to someone else:
If you see someone drowning, what do you do? You jump in the water and try to save them, right? And what do they do? They frantically thrash around and try to climb on top of you to get their own head out of the water. Suddenly there are two of you drowning.
It looks like he may be drowning and he’s trying desperately to find value in himself (Ulove) anywhere he can. He can’t go to you for it because he’s already stolen any that you had left to give. In his desperation to find goodness in himself he’s pulling you down too.
So how do we break the cycle? We pull you out of the water and start looking after you. As you start feeling love and acceptance (Ulove) from sources other than your H you will be getting the love you need and will slowly start having some Ulove to share with him. And MAYBE as he starts feeling Ulove from you it will feed that need in him that's being filled by the charm/charisma behavior he has.
So what do you need to do in order to accomplish that? Well, if it's an option for you, I'd still suggest an IC. One just “for you” and “about you” would be very good. Have you read the inner child thread that Kat1972 has in the Recovery forum? If not, it's got some very valuable information in it. Here's the link:
Kat's Inner Child Thread If you can, find an IC that you’re comfortable talking to about your inner most thoughts and feelings. Someone who understands “Transactional Analysis” because that is concept behind ‘inner child’ stuff.
Also look for other people you feel comfortable sharing your feelings with. Friends, family, forum members here....anyone you can trust will be able to hear the good things and the things you see as flaws in yourself and still love you just as you are. I, for one, volunteer.
Do NOT go to your H for Ulove right now. He probably doesn't have any to give you....just as currently you don't have any to give him. You both have Elove (romantic love) for each other but little or no Ulove (giving love) to share. But you can, with time, get it from other sources and then take it back and offer it to him. Will it save your M? Who knows. But I believe it’ll give you the highest odds of doing so. And it will definitely put you in a position to be a better Mother to you kids and be happier with yourself in general.
You have shown tremendous courage in some of the things you’ve said in this thread. You are capable of doing this for you and your kids. You certainly have my vote of confidence.
With love,
E_C
<small>[ September 18, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Extremely_confused ]</small>
