Finally after 1 year worth of consistant lying H tells me he wanted a woman at work but nothing happened. I've been going on my gut feelings and I've been right thus far. But something keeps bothering me. During this years time of consistant lying he kept saying he never cheating physically even when I wasn't even going there. When I asked as to why he keeps repeating this, he respnds with "well, that's what you want to prove." I asked him if he was having an affair and he blew up and said NO, then I asked about a mental affair, I never mentioned anything about a physical affair, all I wanted to know was what the hell had been going on for 2 years because of his behavior.(Complete withdrawl from myself as well as the children, no intimacy, no talking, basiclly just co-habitating.) After coming out with this he said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do, was tell me he wanted this woman at work. QUESTION: Why did he keep restating he did not have a physical affair even when I wasn't even asking? It seems like he just keeps crying so loudly. Please give me any input to my question.

Hi Down and Out,

Welcome to MB!

I suspect that the reason that he keeps saying that he never had a "physical" affair... is this is his way of justifing his 2 year EMOTIONAL AFFAIR with this lady from work.

Read the articles here on emotional affairs... they should shed some insight into what you are dealing with.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Down-

Ask him what his defination of a PA actually is?? If he gives you a Bill Clinton answer, then you will know how far he has gone. If I had to guess, he has NOT had sex with OW but because he is mentioning it a lot, he is seriously consdiering it.

Only your WH truly knows the answer to this. I can say, however, that my WH said the same thing, only for me to find out that he really did have a PA, not just an EA - even after admitting that they did the nasty, WH still wouldn't call it an A - balks at the word even now....

Brit's Brat/BS-41
WH-43
DS-11 months today!
Status: See my post titled, "For Better or Worse...Here is What I've Done"

He may be trying to minimize the whole thing or just really wants you to know that he didn't have a PA with her.
It sounds as though he is quite remorseful though.
I hope you two can rekindle and eventually move past this. It won't be ofcourse, without the pain that goes with recovery in this area.
Just remember that many affairs of this type happen in the work place. When considering the many hours spent at work-I'm very glad I don't have the chore of working with Tom Cruise. ( that would be too much for me) I work at home safe and sound!

I would like to thank everyone for giving me your thoughts about my question above. I really appreciate it. I have another questions to throw your way because its eating at me. My H took my children and I to a company picnic.(Well, you know she would be there) At the time I had no idea. He was so incredibly jumpy!!!!! I confronted H last night with how he acted at comp. picnic. He replied saying he felt guilty about his thoughts and was afraid I would know he was interested. He was afraid I would meet her and he would give himself away(I didn't meet her, he made sure of that) Prior to telling me this he stated he saw nothing wrong with his thoughts because nothing physical happened and the emotional involvement was only on his side because she had no clue to what he was feeling. But H also stated that feelings were still there without guilt after picnic because he wanted her badly. Again, nothing physical happened so it was ok to have those thoughts. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR VIEWS ON THIS BECAUSE SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. IS IT ME?

I would like to thank everyone for giving me your thoughts about my question above. I really appreciate it. I have another questions to throw your way because its eating at me. My H took my children and I to a company picnic.(Well, you know she would be there) At the time I had no idea. He was so incredibly jumpy!!!!! I confronted H last night with how he acted at comp. picnic. He replied saying he felt guilty about his thoughts and was afraid I would know he was interested. He was afraid I would meet her and he would give himself away(I didn't meet her, he made sure of that) Prior to telling me this he stated he saw nothing wrong with his thoughts because nothing physical happened and the emotional involvement was only on his side because she had no clue to what he was feeling. But H also stated that feelings were still there without guilt after picnic because he wanted her badly. Again, nothing physical happened so it was ok to have those thoughts. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR VIEWS ON THIS BECAUSE SOMETHING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. IS IT ME?

Sorry about the previous double post. I'm really feeling betrayed right now. Don't know what I want to do. H first told me about other woman in Jan. after some heated arguments because I suspected an affair. H told me he just looked at her because she had a nice body. After more arguing he confessed he lusted for her but they were thoughts no big deal. Now again he has told me he had feelings for her. He knew he was a married man but he couldn't help how he was feeling. He also said his boss told him she works out everyday and has a cholesterol problem. WHAT? I asked how in hell did this come up between him and his boss. H told me his boss is trying to loose weight and he brought her up. OK so how much of this should I believe? He hasn't been honest with me for years! Now he tells me this. I don't know about anyone else but why would she be brought into this conversation? She isn't his secretary and has nothing to do with H's department. PLEASE, WILL SOMEONE HELP ME, I"M AT THE END OF MY ROPE. I DON"T KNOW HOW MUCH MORE LYING I CAN TAKE!!!!!!!!

Hi,
I'm sorry that you are having to go through this.

It is not you. Just wanted to tell you that. I have to go, I wish i could say more. You will get some very good responses from others who have been there.

Hi D&O, lot of people here to help you; hope it comforts you as much as it did me..

I know my FWS denied any involvement also; when I confronted her with $500 worth of long distance phone calls, she swore they were only close friends and she would sever the relationship. One month later I found internet logs of three months of on-line discussion between her and the OM; promises of love, sex, leaving me etc.. When I confronted her again, she admitted it was more than friends, and that she was sorry, there was no physical affair and would sever the realationship. She did for about four weeks, then went on a business trip and spent 5 days with him (physical affair). I found out 2 weeks later and confronted her....that was 6 weeks ago.

As of now, her A is over (and I believe her this time). We are working through the pain; it hurts her now that she sees what she has done as much as it hurts me (and we are getting better).

The fact is; I do not trust her and she knows it. It sounds like you have not trusted your H for a long time. Perhaps you should consider the radical honesty policy....if your H really wants the marriage to work, it really helps. Now my FWS and I read email together, she reports who she talks to and where she is routinely, and does her best not to trigger my trust issue. She invites me to snoop, and does not get mad when I ask questions. Because of that, I believe the trust will return, and that is my #1 EN at the moment.

John

DAO - physical or not, he betrayed you.

For many - including WSs - crossing the line to a PA carries some symbolic significance, but it doesn't really matter. An EA is betrayal enough.

I suggest you set this detail aside for now and just ASSUME it was physical or will be. Even if it's not, your actions and responses should be EXACTLY the same.

His lies are "normal" for a WS. Absorb everything you can from this site. As you do, you will come to better understand what he's doing and why.

Calm down, take a deep breath, and go to work learning all you can here. You will soon understand more than he does. Knowledge about affairs equates to power to deal with them.

<small>[ September 20, 2002, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hi Down and Out,
I just want to reiterate that it is not you. There is something going on, whether it is just what your husband is admitting to, being attracted to someone, or more than that. I know how scary and painful it is to suspect an affair. Sometimes it's like you would rather know something bad than nothing at all, just so the pain of wondering is over.
You're right, something just doesn't add up. I don't understand why your husband would not make sure not to allow you to meet this woman at the picnic. He isn't a schoolboy afraid of a girl learning of his crush - well he could be, but it sounds kind of silly to me. Either way, whether there is something going on or not, it's strange not to let you meet her - the thing about not wanting to give himself away is ridiculous. Your marriage comes first, not hiding a secret crush.
Don't drive yourself crazy with suspicions, though. Stay calm and rational. Don't go overboard with accusations. All you can do is stick with and gather facts. The cholesterol/losing weight conversation is strange, but I wouldn't worry about it for the fact that if there was something "fishy" about why this woman was being talked about why would he tell you about the conversation?
Keep tabs on your husband's time out of the house, coming home late, emails, cell phone if he has one, etc. Don't confront with accusations, that could just drive him away. Confront with proof, if you can get any. Liars get away with things a lot of times with loopholes - I suspect that your husband's insistance that this is not a PHYSICAL affair could be a loophole that allows him to trick himself into thinking he's being honest with you while protecting the truth. There may or may not be physical affair or emotional affair, like someone said - only your husband and this woman know the real answer at this point.
Best wishes, post often.

Down&out,

Welcome to MB. Please read the basic concepts above and familarize yourself with the info in the books 'surviving and affair' and 'his needs/her needs'.

Your H is definitely crying out for help. Giving signs all over the place. Many signs that our spouses gave us but many of us just didn't recognize.

There is an EA going on but it may be one sided. However, he is playing with the fire that right now may only be in his heart. Once it gets out in front of the other person, well their actions along with his may take it to another level. Don't really want to go there.

So here are some options. Don't argue his feelings. Commend him for sharing the truth. Then say, his feelings confuse you and maybe if the 2 of you spoke with a MC or if even he went to an IC, it might help. He needs help. Steve or Jennifer can help but he may need a personal IC. There is something triggering those feelings. In this case the other person may not be 'knowingly' contributing to the issue or she may. Either way, it appears to be confined to his actions but it could go the other way quickly.

Like I said, he is playing with fire and doesn't feel the heat or the consequences...... yet. I hope he can recover with the MC or IC's assistance but don't put all your hopes into it. However, it is a start.

The choice is yours. Get support for yourself as well.

take care,
L.

Thank you for your replies. Feeling very alone presently. H again gave me a different explanation about the company picnic and the reason he acted so jumpy. He now says he wanted me to meet her so I wouldn't get suspicious. If nothing happened why would I get suspicious? He said no contact had occurred but he was now wanting to make contact. He said he didn't feel guilty at all, only kind of nervous about me meeting her. He did mention approx. a month later, about a woman who fell and broke her finger. No names just a woman, GUESS WHO? I was still in the dark at this time. I'm really FURIOUS because our kids were at this picnic and he would have let them meet her too! Was she that important to let his kids meet the OW!? When I asked him about it, he said he just didn't think about the kids at that time!

Please give me your views because I'm really hurting. I can't understand how he would let his own kids meet her!

Can a 1 sided EA do all this? Is there more? Would he bring our kids into this? (luckily kids never met her. Is this what he wants to show our girls so that when they grow up they can find a man like dad and live in pain?

All of you have been so helpful. I've read so much on MB. Sometimes my head starts spinning. So many things hitting me with this situation and keeping it together for my kids is really hard.

Firstly, your feelings of rage and betrayal are normal- but you can't afford to indulge in them now. It is not safe to do so.

The positive thing I see is that your husband is confiding in you. He is sharing his feelings with you, not the OW. Don't reward him for that with your anger.

When discussing what happened, don't use the word "affair". Don't bother trying to prove that (right now).You can say things like "I feel hurt that you were directing your feelings towards another woman, not me, your wife." "I've really missed your care and attention, you've been like a different person to your family. We miss the old you before you developed feelings for this woman". Focus on his actions that he has admitted to, not on getting him to confess to something he will fight you on. It seems he has admitted to lusting after another woman- and I'm sure he knows it's wrong. Express your hurt, not your anger. You can also say "I'm afraid you may be tempted into sex with her, given the attraction you're feeling- and that will really hurt our family" Yes, he may have already gone physical with her- and that will come out I'm sure eventually if so.

In the meantime, go into deep reconnaisance stealth mode- gather info on this woman (is she married?) and try to gather info on what's happening- but DO NOT let on that you know. It's hard and stressful but you can do it.

Remember, your marriage CAN recover, you CAN heal and it will be a rough two years. But what's crucial right now is to pull your H back before he does more damage, like leaving you and the kids for this woman. Focus on trying to reestablish the connection between you. Listen to him- even when it hurts. And remember, he may say really hurtful stuff. YOu have to master reverse babble which involves agreeing with him while you subtly point out some of the consequences. Avoid LBs! Don't push your husband off the fence onto the wrong side!

Plan A. Be the best YOU you can be. Remember, you are doing it for yourself.

Get anti depressants, an individual counselor and marriage counseling if possible.
Good luck!

Here we go again. 11 months worth of stories. H keeps promising no more stories only truth so that we can rebuild marriage. WRONG! After having words last night H tells me he thought about leaving me and the kids for OW he works with. BUT....he never had contact with her. The story goes...he wanted to take her to lunch and get to know her. See if she was interested in him. If she was, he would have taken it into PA and sacrificed me and the kids. Maybe I'm blond but how could anyone think of leaving their family for someone they don't know? He knew if he had PA we would be over. Yet he thought about leaving me for her? I 'm not getting something here.

D&O-
Remember, your husband is sitting right next to you- and he is in your bed at night. You have to pull him back into the family first before you get the truth. He may have thought about leaving you- but he hasn't. He still could. Yes, you are right he is probably hiding something. But remember the truth will come out eventually. Give it a little time.

The first thing to do is to try to pull your H back into the marriage. Try to figure out his emotional needs- what could this woman give him that you haven't been. Try to think what were the things in the beginning of your M that pulled you together. Try to do those things. Try to simply do some fun things with him. And try to do some fun stuff with the kids- pull him back into his family. Give him positive reinforcement for what ever good fathering stuff he does, don't criticize his fathering. Act "as if". It will be very hard- but you are in a dangerous spot right now.

When your H says he was thinking of leaving you for this woman- you need to ask why? Not what did you do with her, but why does she attract your H. What does she do? Whether or not he's had sex with her- how fulfilling is your sex life with H? Is there something missing, how can it be improved? Has your attention been diverted to the kids? Have you stopped doing fun things with him?

Yes probably some of it is a fantasy- and you should encourage your H to confide in you about this woman. For example, during my H's A when he was on the fence, he confided in me that OW was a bad driver. Later on I used that fact and mentioned- "I'm concerned about when you move out, about OW driving the kids around, since you mentioned she's a bad driver." He, of course, denied she would ever drive them- but it sowed little seeds of discomfort in his mind. I just sweetly responded "Oh so you'll be driving them to all their activities." Since my H counts on me to do chaffeur duty it was a small reminder to him that OW was not the perfect soul mate after all- life with her might not be so great.

I did this in many ways, always trying to point out the consequence in a respectful way. At the same time I tried to recreate our bonds. My H dumped OW and has maintained NC.

YOu are at the beginning of your saga. You write alot about your battle with H to get the truth. Don't worry- you will get the truth! But getting it right now may push him away. OK so he admits he had sex with her. Maybe then he will feel like he HAS to leave you so he doesn't have to face your anger and pain. Get him closer to you first.

Please, when you write next, tell us more about your relationship with H, what you have been doing to try to get close with him, what do you think is pulling him towards this woman?

espoir- Thanks for all your replies. I sincerely appreciate each one. Brief history about H: comes from a well to do family(too bad we aren't)always got what he wanted, mom made sure of that. H mom always protected him even if he was in the wrong(justified EVERYTHING, still does)I found out he came into this marriage 12 years ago not wanting to give up thinking about other women. He even thought what it would be like if he walked in on my girlfriend nude. As far as OW, he said she was gorgeous and had an accent, thats all he knew about her. As far as how our relationship was--I was going thru a hard time. In 9 months, almost lost baby second trimester, dad diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer, OB dies(I'm high risk), took my dad daily to chemo, dad died in my arms,felt guilt because I told him it was ok, I would take care of everything(he was in terrible pain) mom lost it, had to make all funeral arrangements, and then went into premature labor. God was looking out for me because I gave birth to beautiful baby, older sibling jealous, had to pay special attention to oldest to make her feel that I still loved her the same! H 3 months later had cyber affair because he was feeling left out. Tried talking to him about relationship, his response was "this is how I am, deal with it." Would come back and drift off again. Tried every way I knew to talk to him but he wouldn't listen. Finally, I used tough love and here we are. 12 years worth of realizing he and his needs and wants regarding thoughts and feelings about other women were put in front of me. As far as our sex life...Wam Bam thank you mam. Now he wants to make it work because I'm ready to hit the road. He told me, he would do anything to keep our marriage, I replied "HONESTY POLICY". He agreed full heartedly and said I promise you no more lies if thats what you need, then thats what I'll give you. Well, many lies later here we are.