WW wife and I talked about the need for us to seperate. She tells me that we need time to ourselves. She says she needs time to see if she can get back her feelings for me. That those feelings have been gone for along time. A mistake, and for a reaction, I just asked her why not just divorce now and move on. She said no, she didnt want that and was not even thinking that. I know I lb'd but just wanted a reaction. I know my WW if having an EA with a man 1500 miles away. I need advice on how to handle the seperation, i.e. how long do I wait to call her, how long do I wait to court her again, if ever, do I just let her go and wait for her to come back. Obviously she will never get "those" feelings back if we don't have any contact at all. Any Ideas would be great, since this is definately a new journey for me and I don't want to get lost along the way. By the way we have 2 boys 8 and 5 too.

Toro

Separations are not really good for marriages. They are risky. You are right that she will have to be with you to get those feelings back. It is true that sometimes a separation helps a person realize what they are loosing. But it’s risky.

What is she suggesting as far as a separation goes? Is she planning on moving out? Are you supposed to move out? What happens with the children?

Do not agree to move out and leave your children with her. If she wants a separation then let her move out.

As for seeing her.. this is a hard one. Have you considered an hour or two with Dr. Harley? He could help you work through this.

I'd say push for marriage counseling first.

TORO -- I don't know your whole situation/story, but I will give you my thoughts on separation. Avoid it at all costs because as zorweb states it is very hard to do planA and show your love and changes when you are not in contact much with your WW. My WH moved out right away and I didn't know enough to think that it was anything but a good idea.

That said, if she is determined to move and won't go to counseling, I am living proof that you can do a plan A while physically separated. I think it takes much longer and is very risky. Fortunately, we work closely together so we had others reasons to have contact. We are not at the point of reconciliation, but things are much better than they were. I feel better and know that I will be ok no matter what the outcome.

You should not move. She should be the one to move if she "needs time to sort her head out" (a VERY common WW/WH statement) and see if she can "regain her feelings" (again a VERY common statement). It's a bunch of junk. What it really means is I want to find time to participate in my EA or PA unfettered by having to lie to your face or see you and feel guilty. Sorry to be so harsh, but from my own experience and what I've read from others on this site, this seems to be true.

What will the arrangement be with your children?

Is this a definite decision or just WW making sweeping statements?

Keep us posted. If you do separate, I will try to stay with your threads/posts. It is hard, but not impossible to do a plan A under these circumstances.

What are you doing for you?

She is definately moving out. Looking for a place now. We will have the kids jointly. 3-4 days with me and 3-4 days with her, alternating weekends. I don't know. I just feel like asking her to let me go. I know I cant compete with OM, especially if we are seperated. I took the kids tonight to get haircuts and dinner. Came home and saw her driving around the neighborhood. Thought maybe she was looking for a place. When I asked her she said she was just driving around. I'm sure she was talking to him. I feel like giving up. I feel like telling her i'll give her a divorce. I feel like she is dragging me along and then will just say goodbye sooner or later after we are seperated. I can't compete with him, even though he is 1500 miles away. I'm sure they talk everyday. I just don't see any way she'll ever come back. I haven't felt this low since d-day.

We are both seeing IC.

“I just feel like asking her to let me go.”

I hope this does not mean to let you be the one to move out.

It sounds like she is determined to move out. To make this work you need to draw on some of the basics of Plan B. The idea is to put her in a position where OM has to meet all of her needs. She does not realize it, but right now you are meeting many of her needs. He is meeting only a few.

If he lives that far away then they have minimal contact. It is very very hard to maintain a relationship over a distance. I know… that’s what my H and I did for almost 2 years before we got married. There are often ugly surprises in that type of relationship since both parties are alone a lot. My H filled in with other women he met on the Internet.

Don’t be purposely hard on her, but at the same time don’t make this easy for her. The only time you should meet her needs or Plan A her is when she comes to see you. Let her have to depend on OM for everything else.

If she is going to come back it will be because OM is not meeting all of her needs. The opportunity for failure in the A is high here.

Zorweb:

Thanks for the reply. No, I mean just letting me go. We talked today and she reminded me of when we broke up when we were dating and how we got back together. I told her why don't we just DV now and get it over with. She said she is not even thinking that way. But that there is so much tension between us at home that she feel she will end up hating me if we live together. I actually am feeling the same way. Its is really hard to see her right now. I keep thinking a cooling off period would be good but I know I can't compete with OM. I think I'm going to write her a small note tonight and leave it for her. I just don't want to be dragged through 3 to 4 months of more pain only to find out she never really meant to keep our marriage.

My advice is to Plan A for a little while and especially don't LB.

If she is going to move out, she will. You can't stop her. While you don't want her to move out or talk to OM, it is out of your hands. It is her choice not yours.

However, you can set up conditions/atmosphere environment for that to be harder for her to do by being the best you that you can be (Plan A.) Sure in a way it is competing with OM (which you said you can't do) but don't think about her and OM. Perhaps pretend (for now) that there is no OM and just be the best husband you can be (change those things about you that you know you should/could.)

Over time she may come back because she will not only notice you are a safe place (no lbing) but someone willing to change. Obviously the A needs to die a natural death before then but doing a solid Plan A will help you.

I feel for the pain you are going through. I think we all know how bad it can be. I can say that it will get better with time (the pain will fade.) It was said to me months ago and know I can say it is true.

Do not make any life-altering decisions when you are on the emotional rollercoasters (i.e. to divorce or not, or to move out or not, etc.) If you want her back, love her, and do not want a divorce, then you have a lot of work ahead of you. Read up on plan A on this website. Call the Harleys. Read SAA. Heck check out my thread even:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=001238;p=1

Good luck.

I couldn't take it. I typed her a letter that printed out on her printer. I know this was a bad idea, but in the middle of the night I just had to. I basically told her she could let me go. I would give her a divorce if she wanted it. I told her she needed to be truthful to herself about saving our marriage. That I know I can't compete with someone who has her heart. I said we both know that it is impossible to save our marriage while someone else is involved. I said I am not telling you to stop talking to him or not to see him. That I know she has feelings for him that she will never have for me while she is with him. That when we are seperated he will have her to himself and my chances of proving myself will slowly slip away. I told her I want her to be happy, but that I need to be happy too.

I know all of you are going to tell me this was a mistake, but there is a part of me that feels she is just waiting to see what happens with OM, then has me for backup. I might be wrong but that is just my feeling.

There is another part of me that thinks this 1500 mile EA can not work. She has even said so. But I'm not sure I can handle finding out they were together during our seperation. I guess I just want to get on with my life. Yes, I do love her and I do want her to be my wife forever. I'm just not sure how I'm going to get through this.

Toro,

---- “I know all of you are going to tell me this was a mistake I couldn't take it.”

I will not tell you this. You did what you felt was the right thing. Most people cannot Plan A for more then 2 weeks while an active affair is going on. I know that I could not do it. There is a lot of wisdom in what you did.

No one whats to feel that they are the fall-back. If you are, she is just going to do this again if this relationship does not work out. You’ve but the responsibility in her lap. You’ve set her free. What she does from here is her call. What you do is your call.

For her to continue the affair in your face, ask to live alone so that she can play around but keep you in the sidelines is abusive and just plain wrong.

I does not sound like you are going to Plan B. Once you are separated see here as seldom as you can for a while. But when you do, plan A her. You can probably do it in little spurts. And get on with you life. This does not mean date. Do not start that until your divorce is final and for 6-12 months after that. You want to be emotionally healthy when/if you start a new relationship.

Given time, there is not telling how this will turn out. So continue to work on yourself. Love and take care of your children. Make sure you have whatever legal protection is necessary so that she cannot up and move the kids out of state on a whim one day.

Has she seen your letter yet? What is her response?

TORO:

It doesn't matter whether we think it was a mistake 2 give her that letter or not. You did. But remember, whatever you do is what you need 2 do. Don't feel like you've "failed" for something like this. You actually said some very honest things that you probably needed 2 clarify (setting boundaries of what you will tolerate).

As for competing with the OM. He doesn't stand a snowballs chance in the frying pan of Haydes, dude! Think about it. YOU have a 14 year history with your W. YOU are the father of her children. YOU have been with her all this time.

Ms get "mundane" quite easily. That doesn't mean they're dead or over. They just need 2 be revitalized. That's why As are so successful at first - the OP meets needs the WS doesn't think they're getting at home. And you, as a BS, are feeling like you can't reinvigorate your M with this guy in the picture. It's certainly true that it's almost impossible 2 work on your M with the A ongoing, but it isn't quite impossible - you can work on YOU (you need 2 anyway) and you can plan A your W (even if she moves out). This will take patience, and time for you 2 do it without ANY LBing at all (it took me 6 months 2 get 2 that point), love her for who she is. Focus on trying 2 understand what it is she's missing from your M that the OM is providing, and work 2ward filling those needs yourself. Try 2 stop worrying about OM. He will "lose" this competition in the long run! And you will have your W back and your family intact.

Hello Toro...
I havn't posted here in quite a while. I have been seperated for abt 3 months now. I had an EA w/ a woman that lives halfway across the country...sound familiar? Anyway I can tell you from first hand experience that it has not been pleasant. At first it gave me that margin of freedom that I craved so much. I could talk to her whenever I liked, come and go as I pleased w/out being watched etc..etc...
I have put my wife through an emotional hell, and guilt plays as strongly now as the "fantasy feelings" that I felt in the beginning of the affair. My affair is not over, but on the decline. My only hope is that it is not too late to salvage what is left, not too little, too late.
I lied to everyone in my family, to the couseler, and to myself. I justified what I did because my wife strayed, even though it was many years ago.
I convinced myself that the feelings just werent there anymore (how convenient), and I never felt anything as good what the OW gave me. SHE filled in all the empty places, SHE made me laugh again, SHE gave me sexual satisfaction, SHE really cared, ...hell the list goes on and on. I guess I wrote this because this now seems so obvious to me and your situation seems so similar. Please hang in there...Sometimes an affair that is so distant seems like it would be easier to break off....not exactly. Sometimes the anticipation of not seeing someone in a while actually feeds the fantasy. The sex is more intense when you've waited for it for a while, because you've anticipated it. The reality of the OW is different than the world that I built around her....and I created quite a world. I'm sure your wife has created her own illusion and feels that it is the most real thing she has ever had. She may feed the fantasy every day with romantic phone conversations, have her own mailbox to send each other romantic gifts, e-mails etc... It is probably an adventure for her, as it was for me. She probably knows deep down someplace that she would be making a mistake by divorce, but could fulfill her fantasy through seperation. Please tell her to read some of these posts, they are knowlegable people. I am learning the hard way and face a tough road ahead. I hope she can find what she needs in her marriage (it's really there if you look for it)....you've gone this many years for a reason, you know. Is she prepared for :
The hollow feeling of coming home to silence
Depression, guilt, anxiety
The shame of telling her kids it just wasn't working..instead of the blunt truth
The memories of happy times in your marriage that she suppressed to feel justified in her choice...the memories seem to remanifest themselves.
The panic that hits you suddenly when you realize just how many people were affected by your affair ..and just how much.
The reality that your affair is more of an obligation now.

I always considered myself a reasonably intelligent man, and that I was smart enough to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I KNOW this feeling is real. I couldn't have been more wrong. The self deceit and selfishness led me into an addiction that fed upon itself daily. I'm going to need a lot of help to get back what I have lost, and heaven only knows if I can get it all back. The truth is hardest thing to face, and I avoided it like the plague.

I hope you have patience, and your wife will take a look at reality, even a glimpse to start. You may want to bring out a photo album and/or video of birthdays, Christmas etc.. and look at them together, if not together then ask her look by herself. I did and it hit me like a freight train. I guess anything is worth a shot. I am no expert, for sure. I can tell you that I have lost so much and gained little. Maybe she cannot possibly fathom how badly your world can come crashing down. I certainly can....

Best wishes, and stay stong and patient for the sake of your family...ok?

ttyl

Thanks all who have replied to my post. Yes, I think she read it this morning. When she left it was not on the printer but on her desk. She did not say anything about it, but I was asleep when she left for her counseling appointment. I feel like I am trying to find a way to stop them from seeing each other. I know I can't, I'm just not sure what my feelings for her will be if they meet and the A becomes physical. I sometimes think if she is out of the house, then out of site out of mind. If I don't see her then I will not know that they have been together. But, then if she decides to work things out in the future I will always wonder.
I love my wife, she is the most beautiful woman I have seen ( I thought that even before the a started). I love everything about her, my problem is I have never shown her that. I put myself and my kids before her needs, and now I am paying the ultimate price for it. I do now blame her for what has happened. I have told her that. I just pray to God that I get the smallest chance someday to show her just how special she is to me. It hurts me to death to think that may never happen. Or, that the OM will be showing her instead.
Thanks again for all your replies. It helps so much to hear from you during this time. I love you all.

TORO

TORO:

"I just pray to God that I get the smallest chance someday to show her just how special she is to me. It hurts me to death to think that may never happen. Or, that the OM will be showing her instead. "

Show her NOW.

I don't know how. Anything I do NOW she just thinks I am doing because of everything that is happening. I have been respectful and humble around her. That's what I am afraid of, knowing when to show her how I feel about her. I am just so confused.

Toro,

I am a bs. I moved out 5 months ago after 1 month of plan-A. The lies and deception was just too painful for me to continue to stay in the same household. I needed to preserve my sanity.

I really admire those who can do a lengthy plan-A. I know the difficulties of plan-A.

Make no mistake about it, separation is equally as difficult. I needed to prove to my W as well as myself, that I can live without her. I have done that. Toro, separation is not easy but imo it is necessary for both parties in the M to find themselves.

What you do with your time during the separation is the key. I chose to use the time to develop co-parenting skills - the children are my number 1 priority, then its me.

Right now, you are feeling so much fear. It is the fear of the unknown. I know how you feel. Its time to put your life back together. Do the things that you always want to do. Concentrate on yourself and your children. Do things to "build" on yourself, your self esteem, your attitude. After a while you will be thinking - 'its her loss'.

Take care

TORO:

"I don't know how. Anything I do NOW she just thinks I am doing because of everything that is happening."

Yeah, that's true when their having an A. It will take time and consistency for her 2 "believe" these changes in you are real.

"I have been respectful and humble around her. That's what I am afraid of, knowing when to show her how I feel about her. I am just so confused."

Best thing 2 do is be yourself, FOR yourself. As you feel more at ease about yourself, she'll notice THAT. Basically, you're trying 2 show her that you CAN be a single parent if you have 2, but you'd rather share your life with her if you get your druthers. No pressure.

Thanks for the input everyone. As much as I may not like the idea of a seperation, I think the time alone will help me find ME. I have been reading alot lately about relationships, etc. I need to find out for myself what I view as a good marriage. What it takes to have a good marriage. Not for my wife but for me. I need to understand that she may not come back and that someday I might be with someone else, hopefully not. So I want to make sure I don't make the same mistakes I did in this marriage. I also need time to think and make for sure that she is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with. Right now I feel she is, but there is alot of emotions mixed in there too. The time alone will definately help with that. It will also give me some quality time with my boys. Not seeing them for 3 or 4 days I think will be the hardest part of the seperation. I think it will be equally hard on them, as they are daddy's boys.
Thanks again to all that have replied. I really enjoy hearing from all of you.

Toro

hello TORO - My computer connection hasn't been functioning very well or I would have responded sooner.

I know you are in pain. It hurts so much. Giving her the letter is not something you should beat yourself up about -- we've all done things that aren't consistent with a "perfect" plan A (whatever that is).

You can do plan A if she goes. I sometimes think it might have been easier for me to do a true plan A after WH had been out of the house for a while because I didn't LB so much and I knew the A was still going on at the time. If it had still been going on and he'd been home, I'm not sure I could have kept my cool.

I know exactly how you feel about not having shown them how much you truly love them and just wanting the chance to do it now. That is a part of what plan A is -- to show your spouse the best part of your love for them. You can't go backwards and change things but you can go forward.

You are getting some very good advice here from 2long, aanast, zorweb and others.

I just wanted to give you encouragement. I was where you are several months ago. At the time, I didn't think it was possible to move forward. If you start thinking more about you and what you need to change and your children you will be able to focus less on what your WW is or is not doing.

Well went to sons soccer game tonight with ww. Didn't talk most of the way there. I asked her if she had any leads for a full time job. She said she had a few. But, the talk was pretty minimal. At the soccer game she went to look for our other son who was playing, when she came back I just couln't take my eyes off of her walking back to me. She said What. I said I was just watching you, she tried not to smile and looked away. I asked if that was ok and she said no. Later we took the kids into Dairy Queen for a snack. I asked her how much weight she had lost. She said she stopped looking at the scale. I told her she looked great. She told me to stop, but she smiled again. We laughed a couple of times on the way home, she ate a hot onion ring. We thought it was funny.
Anyhow, just an update, nothing special. I just wish I could hold her agian. I miss that so very much.

Toro