I also posted this on Recovery

<sigh>

Things are really going very well... [can you hear the BUT?]...

I can see him slipping into depression/paralyzed mode... the helplessness of life is enveloping him... major discontent w/ himself... w/ life... w/ me... w/ kids... BLAME... BLAME... BLAME...

He does not like the job he is doing right now... it is not his life dream... his passion... I know that he resents being married... having children... because IT forces him to be RESPONSIBLE... HE's STUCK...

So tonight, I 'unstuck' him. AGAIN... I told him that HE HAD TO FIND HIS OWN CONTENTMENT... There are no bars on the doors or windows... He has not signed a <contract> for the job he is doing... HE IS FREE... the chains... they are in his mind and I CAN'T DO A DAMN THING ABOUT THEM....

except that I resent and fear them... damned chains... damned resentment... the thought of them... I HATE that he feels resentment regarding marriage and children... I RESENT the HELL out of him for marrying me in the first place... when he really didn't want to... IT GIVES HIM A DAMN OUT... He can ALWAYS fall back on that...

You know... "Didn't want to be here in the first place... knew I was gonna be a failure at marriage... kids... life... told you so..." What a cop out.

Those of you "Passionate Marriage" readers will understand that it was one of those 'watershed' moments... and I did hold myself together... I really feel he has to GET this piece... NO ONE IS TYING HIM DOWN.... the chains are in his mind... HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN FIND CONTENTMENT IN HIS LIFE... and NO ONE... least of all me... is making HIM stay...

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Cali

Cali,
You have had your share of problems, and tomorrow will be better, but here is a quote for you to pass on to H. I found it on this ( link below) site today.
Sunbeams

Anyone who imagines that bliss is normal in life is going to waste a lot of time running around shouting that he's been robbed. The fact is that most putts don't drop, most beef is tough, most children grow up to be just people, most successful marriages require a high degree of mutual toleration, and most jobs are more often dull than otherwise. Life is like an old-time rail journey - delays, sidetracks, smoke, dust, cinders, and jolts, interspersed only occasionally with beautiful vistas and thrilling bursts of speed. The trick is to thank God for letting you have the ride.
Gordon B. Hinckley

I thought it described things pretty well.
See ya around.

SS

Ummm... Cali?!?!?

H seems kinda 'self-centered'. Ya know!??!?!?

Through all of this, what is the one thing he has stuck with (hobby, friend, dreams, plans, goals, etc.)?

Just thinkin'.

L.

Thank you for the encouragement still seeking , I printed it out for him...

Orchid ... what has he stuck with his WHOLE life? His love for God, his family and his passion for acting and writing.

Cali

{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}

We should elevate you to sainthood....

RE: what has he stuck with his WHOLE life? His love for God, his family and his passion for acting and writing.

Sound to me like he’s stuck with himself and he is having a hard time dealing with it. If only he could walk away from himself.

Sometimes I feel like that about ME, wish I could just shed me and be someone else. Someone more beautiful, more brilliant, more exciting and richer… you know someone interesting who does not have to deal with kids and a job and all the other mundane things in life.

You’re words of setting him free are good.. you need to ‘release him’ so that you can live in peace. Then if he stays it’s his doing. But tell him that if he stays you just don’t want to hear this crap anymore. It’s his deal, not yours. Since he will not let you into this part of his world, it is his to deal with.

Cali:... what has he stuck with his WHOLE life? His love for God, his family and his passion for acting and writing.

Well Cali, let's see what of these things you can use to help him out of his rut?

1. His love for God: That in itself would make him want to be there for his family. The Bible says that 'carrying the yoke' is not to be a burden. It could be but one's attitude is what makes the difference.

Note: Not you saying this, someone much higher.

2. His Family?!?!: You and the children or is he very attached to his parents and siblings?

3. Passion for acting and writing: Hm..... I use to want to be a writer (even did a script for a TV Series but never had the nerve to submit it - that's why Sidney Sheldon - I think that's his name. is sooo sucessful - LOL!!!)

Ok, well can he do some of that while working? Be creative and incorporate his passion by involving his students, etc.

The point of the excercise is to see what you can use or he can use to help bring value to his life. His responsibilities will not change. NO one should remove his parental and marital responsibilities (see Redhats enabling thread), but there are ways to achieve self respect. As long as he does not have true respect for himself and others, he will be miserable regardless of what he does and then you will be miserable.

Cali, you are a bright woman. You H may feel a bit miffed by you abilities. I know that my H feels like he can't be good enough and I am not trying to show him up. He is very good in many things but fails to acknowledge it. He only sees his down side and my good side. Guess that's good for me but very bad for him.

Now I have learned that my being good should not stop. How he views himself needs to change. Back to that ol' take responsibility for yourself cliche'.

Don't stress too much Cali, he may just be testing your limits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ September 18, 2002, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Hi Cali. I've only been here a short time, so unlike the others, I don't know your story. If you've read my posts, you know I am a BS...

How old is H? The types of things you mention (discontent w/ self, job, being stuck w things he is discontent w/) left me wondering: Is he in or headed for a mid-life crisis?

I'm not offering excuses, but many people do go thru that, and it is as real for them as the sun rising. That doesn't mean he's just free to have an A w/ a 19 yr. old (or buy a sports car!), but he may need some help pulling thru it.

Is he in IC? Has he been? Maybe he should be?

Cali,

Hugs

guess what your H might not know it but he is like everyone else

Boy, the more you read these things, the more you hear words, phrases and concepts you thought were entirely yours. If my FWS would just read this site, she'd get some real insight.

Ok, thoughts -- What your husband says sounds eerily familiar to what I was saying in the months leading to my W's A and, oddly, some of the things she said after the A was revealed. With me, she "wasn't happy" didn't "know what I want" not sure "what would happen next" and "couldn't see the future."
Meanwhile, I was saying I wasn't happy in my job, didn't have a passion, felt stuck and manipulated, blah blah blah blah.
So she runs off to Mr. Wonderful who "Let me love him" and finds out she's "happy with myself." Duh. Brilliant, the way we see the fog. Brilliant.
Then WHAMMO! The A revealed. Why? Who knows? But it was. And so what does she say a few days ago about the A? It gives a person a new "clarity" about what's important.
And what do I, the former navel gazer who contimplated life like Rodin's The Thinker (I'm a writer, too, so I get your husband's drift)? This whole mess has brought a new maturity. Same thing, different words. Realizing what's important.
So, maybe he's not there yet. Maybe he won't get there. But, you are right: You can't make him get there. You focus on what's important to YOU. He'll either tag along or drop back. Just keep running your race.

I'm betting he'll come around.

Is your H an "Aquarius" by chance??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> That's what my H is (and I'm his complete opposite.. a scorpio! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Part of his character (?), is that he requires a lot of spontanaeity (sp?) in his life. He NEEDS change, he NEEDS some variations. He also understands that some of these things he needs have to be held off for a few more years (up to 10yrs), b/c of the boys being so young.

My H has always wanted to have his own business. He almost doesn't care what it is, so long as it's HIS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Obviously, that isn't really MY thing... but I respect what he wants. His new job (been there for 1 month now) requires him to almost be his own boss. He LOVES that. And just last night, he started taking a community course on "starting your own business". It runs 3 nights per week, for 5 weeks. And it's only costing us $20 for the photocopying of his resources.

I have never seen my H happier than he is right now! And although it was all of his doing, getting the job and taking the course, I feel part responsible for his happiness, because just like you, I've "let go" of him.

It's possible that your H might need a little bit of a nudge right now. Acting and writing, huh? Why not sign him up for a course? (or better yet, if you're able to... go with him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

I hope you're feeling better soon. (((((((Cali))))))

Karen

Cali,

You're doing exactly the right thing PM-wise. This is his crucible to go through. It hurts to really know that you need to be out of the loop on this one, doesn't it? The urge is to jump in and try to prove that he's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG- about the chains, the ties, it being your fault.... I think I understand how tough this is for you.

As long as he's confronting YOU and not HIMSELF he'll never get to the point where he becomes true to himself and chooses.

So many of the examples in PM were like this... it was only when one spouse had the courage to step back, that the other was able to hold onto themselves - because they had to!

The perceived chains (and guilt) define your H right now. He can point to them and say "that's what I am-- a chained person, a guilty person, I've never been 'allowed' to be who I really am". All of the drama he's inflicted on himself (and your family) over the past year and a half probably has a lot to do with avoiding the pain of facing himself.

Each of us is able to invent an "OUT" if we want it. The only thing that prevents us from doing that is US. No external promise, vow, whatever can keep up from using our "OUT"... An internal decision- a promise to ourselves - is necessary and sufficient to keep us from ever exercising our out. But, imagine the trust you must have in YOURSELF to make a promise and KNOW that you will be able to keep it. It's easier to abdicate control over your life than to accept total responsibility for it!

My prayers go out to you and your family.

Jeffers

Thanks for all your responses... it has been a loonngg day @ school and church... I am in a support group at church going through the book "Hiding from Love" by Cloud and Townsend (who also did Boundaries)... only the second class... but I think it's going to be good for me...

Z... you got it EXACTLY... he would like to walk away from himself... problem is... HE CAN'T! and as with MOST of us... he keeps repeating the same stuff over and over and over...

orchid... family meaning his mom/dad/brother/sisters... they are close... but NOT... if you know what I mean... get along... talk about superficial things... but NEVER miss a holiday or family gathering... I keep praying he will get an opportunity to TEACH drama...

riff... yeah, early on... just after d-day, I identified mid-life crisis signs... unfortunately it intersected w/ depression and extreme discontentedness...

sing ... why do they think they are so UNIQUE? My H has often said that "No one THINKS like he does."

Chorus ... yeah... he sure isn't there yet... but I keep praying for it... he's had moments of clarity... but this whole "I'm not good enough" way of thinking goes way back in his gene pool.

Topie worse... he's Cancer... moody is his middle name... and as for drama... we have paid for headshots, classes, writing workshops for screenplays... DID IT... see his HEAD gets in the way... his fear of failure or success... not sure which... takes over and paralyzes him... part of why I was so angry with his "You control me" bit during the A...

Haven't talked about it yet w/ him... I had Back to School night... church went long tonight... we have a 'date' on Friday... maybe then...

THANKS AGAIN!!
Cali

jeffers...

WOW... that's so IT!

You know he was so angry w/ me for what I was saying... and I wasn't saying call the divorce lawyers... but he made it seem that way... he said that a weak person would see what I said (that there were no bars on the windows or chains on the doors) as an opening... a way out... and would take me at my word and leave...
hmmm... ya think?

But I know that is it. HE HAS TO CHOOSE TO BE HERE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO... no outs allowed... not FOR THE KIDS... not because of VOWS... but because this is where he WANTS to be... and then HE HAS TO WORK ON HIS OWN CONTENTMENT... I can't give it to him.... his children can't... he has to find the blessings in our life...

Cali

Cali,

Well he certainly can't run away from himself so you'd think the 'most logical' thing to do is work on bettering one's self. Now what is stopping him from that? An unattainable goal? Can the expectations be lowered?

I gave my H homework. It is now his job to make us happy. I remind with a look or a hmmm........ he is definitely smiling more but also, I have to hear a lot of bodily noise jokes...... you know how boys can be (especially those that like to watch dragon ball Z)!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Cali,

I don't know what it is about guys...

and then HE HAS TO WORK ON HIS OWN CONTENTMENT...

I think we keep ourselves so busy with "stuff" and convince ourselves that's contentment. If we stay on the standard path, then happiness and contentment are part of the package. Why should it be work? (Gee, wasn't there a poster who used to insist the same thing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

I feel cheated, too. You mean all this time I was supposed to working toward something, rather than treading water? I feel foolish, and way behind. Gotta catch up, need to be somewhere else, somewhere important, doing something important. Yikes.
.... Well anyway, that's how I was feeling last year...

I wish I could blame someone else, but that wouldn't solve any of my problems... And, I realize that's the out of a weak person (drat!). Your H makes me chuckle sometimes.

One of the things that Schnarch is very vague about is the time scale of many of the crucible events he describes. I suspect that most "revelations" take many months (years?), just comparing to my own pace of improvement... Not only does it take work, it takes LOTS of work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Jeffers

Hi cali---

You know I have been hanging with you for a long time now and I think ...make that I KNOW...you are the queen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Listen...it really is that simple and that complicated for all of us...we need to WANT to be where we are in life and no one can make us WANT that...we all have to deal with that in our own way...sort it out in our heads....effed up is making a mistake if he thinks there is some way to blame you for his lack of contentment or to feel that is something you can somehow provide...

I just replied on unsureheart's thread that she & I have spouses that need to allow themselves to feel a certain way...whether that is "in love" or toward commitment or whatever...

Maybe your H isn't [B]allowing[B/] himself to do that...but that is HIS issue...you can only do what you can do...and I know what that has been and it has made you the queen in my book...(OK, I have a few chapters to go yet, but I don't see anyone taking that title away from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I don't know if this reply makes a lot of sense but the bottom line from me is you are doing great and don't let this set you back...

Take care...

E

Orchid... my H's "homework" is to ask what God wants him to do... How He wants him to act... etc. I now just tell him to pray or ask one of his new Christian friends for guidance...

jeffers my H makes me <chuckle> to... but that's usually a couple of days after the EVENT... my initial reaction is to want to take his head off... so now I spend some time in thought... prayer... figuring out the best nonLB way to say something...

I'm reading a new book... I'd actually taken a break from self-help books ... Hiding From Love by John Townsend... (he works w/ Cloud on the Boundaries series)... It is actually a 'study' group book class at church... so far it is reminding me of The Mastery of Love and The Passionate Marriage though the topic of the books aren't the same... but so far the basic premise is that we are all UNFINISHED people and that we find ourselves having problems in the areas where there was some 'break' in childhood... and that by being in relationship w/ others we can FINISH ourselves...

Good stuff...

Elad <blush> Partly it is the PERFECTIONIST in me to really want to get it right... MOSTLY it is that I LOVE him, my children and really DESIRE our family to work... but I really have to work on the PERFECTIONIST thing... it is something I am finding I HIDE behind....

H does not allow himself to be happy... because he thinks that he CAN'T be... and tries to convince myself and himself that that is okay... but I know that that is NOT what God wants for us... he wants us to find contentment and happiness... not EXTERNAL stuff... but the INTERNAL stuff that really matters...

Power of a Praying Wife helps me get specific in my prayer for him... (they have one for Hs now)...

Thanks to all...

Emotions are high... anxiety is lurking under the surface as we are buying a house... if all goes as it "should" (and I know it never does) we should close the end of October... My posting may increase as that date grows closer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ... and I try not to spin out of control!

Cali