2long is right. Do look at tempted's posts. You will see that what you are feeling and thinking is just about the same thing that all WS's feel and think. And it all leads to the same path.

Please do not put yourself and your family through this.

Zorweb has made great points. Your concern and fascination with this lunch issue might be indicative of deeper issues. She's doing something for your ENs or you wouldn't be doing it, and it bothers you.

On the take that you let your spouses know -- Yeah, that's a definite. But it's not the ultimate solution. I was so comfortable with my W's lunch companion, he became our closest family friend. He shared Christmas dinner and birthday cakes.

Look, simple rule of thumb you'll find on the web site: Would you do any of this if your spouse were standing next to you the whole time? Yeah, you might go to lunch, but what about the conversation? The intimacy?

A lot of people are heading for heartache on this train. Step up and shut it down.

Then start thinking about what may have led you into that temptation.

Chorus and all,

----“On the take that you let your spouses know. Yeah, that's a definite. But it's not the ultimate solution. I was so comfortable with my W's lunch companion; he became our closest family friend. He shared Christmas dinner and birthday cakes.”

My point here was not that cautious and this woman let their spouses know to bring each other into their marriages as ‘best friends’. What I was trying to say and was apparently not clear enough is that they need to stop this relationship and tell their spouses about it. That way cautious and his wife and work on improving their marriage and filling what ever needs are not being met. It’s almost a given that if some of his needs are not being met then he is not meeting some of his wife’s. It’s a two way street. Cautious, how would you feel if your wife had a relationship like the one you are embarking on? However if Cautious and this woman are intent on continuing their budding affair, then they need to tell their spouses so that their spouse have a chance to either agree with the affair or move on with their lives.

Cautious, are you ready to end your marriage or destroy your marriage and you wife because of this? That’s where you are headed. Why not just spare your wife, tell her, let her leave. Then you can have all the friendships with all the women you want? It’s a lot more honest.

Cautious,
Listen to the folks on this site.

I don't know what the circumstances are for you and this woman, other than you both say you are happily married. What I'm about to say may or may not be true, but it's something worth thinking about, as I've noticed this sort of thing happening over the years.

Some women may indeed love their husbands, but may reach a point in their lives (midlife crisis?) where they are not where they want to be in terms of financial security, etc. Maybe their husbands are hard workers, but just don't earn as much as the wife would like them to. So...they start looking around...maybe without even realizing what they are doing. Somehow a friendship develops with a guy who is more financially successful than their H's. Maybe the guy's manners are more "refined" than their H's, or he's a "white-collar worker" as opposed to their H's being a "blue-collar worker". Whatever...

After a while of maybe having "innocent" lunches, maybe she shows up one day, really angry with her H over something. By that time, she is comfortable enough with the new guy to tell him about her troubles with H. He tries to console her....and things take off from there.

I've noticed stuff like this to the point that when I see a woman totally make herself over...new hairdo, new makeup, new style of clothes, etc....that I start thinking one of two things: Either she's got a new man on the hook, or she's caught her H cheating.

Most of the time when it's been a new man on the hook, he's a more financially successful man than her H is.

I'm not saying that this is the case with the woman you've been having lunches with, but it's worth thinking about.

I'd say she is on the make for you, and that is why you shouldn't even go near her with a 10-foot pole.

Hi Cautious,
First of all, you aren’t over reacting and you are in an emotional affair. I haven’t been here for a while, thought I’d check in today and reading this post made my heart lurch. If you want to keep your marriage together and if you care the least about this woman….you must stop seeing her immediately.

The same thing happened to me and it almost destroyed my family and marriage. I was happily married enjoyed the company of a man at my place of work. We ate lunch together, visited, and really enjoyed each others company. I introduced my H to him bc I thought they’d like each other. I fell totally in love with him. Interestingly, it was my H who told me that I had fallen in love with him and must quit seeing him. I was in total denial of what was happening to me bc I was happily married and planned to stay that way. He and I were just friends…even though I had strong feelings for him, I knew we would never be together bc we were both in committed relationships. I had been married 20 years and had two teenage sons. I wasn’t going anywhere. My husband wanted me to quit seeing him but I refused to do so. I finally relented and had to change jobs bc I knew I could never stop seeing him if I continued to work at the same place.

The long and the short of it is that we saw each other regularly and emailed each other for a year. We really liked each other and were filling a void in each other’s lives. When I left my job, I told him that I had fallen in love with him, but that I also had no intention of leaving my H. And despite the fact that I loved him I wanted to remain friends with him. During the second year, we kept in touch through email and the phone. We tried to stop our contact but I would break down and resume contact. Finally six months ago, we were finally able to quit contact.

It was the most painful and gut-wrenching experience I have ever gone through. It was pure hell and torture for me. And the whole thing nearly broke up my marriage. Not seeing him was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. I thought about him 24/7 for 2 years…only now, 2 ½ years later am I really able to let go…and it’s still hard and there are many, many times that I want to call him, see him, connect with him. We never even touched.

He never told me that he loved me…He told me that he was attracted to me and enjoyed my friendship…but that he was committed. I never believed him bc he was so kind and so responsive to me. So even though he told me he was committed, the fact that he was so kind, led me to believe that he did love me….or care for me more than he was willing to admit.

In summary, if you have a wife that you love and a marriage that you hope to keep together…stop seeing this woman. People may have the best of intentions…to stay friends, but you are both playing with fire and someone will get burnt. It’s a matter of who and when. The longer you prolong it the harder it will be to break it off and the more it will hurt…not only you and her but your wife and her husband and children.

I really, really feel for you and the pain you must already feel…it is so hard to say good bye to a friend…it just doesn’t make sense on so many levels…but it has to be done.
Good luck!
Ashirley

The messages have been sobering. Especially thoes from women. I am showing that I am naive, but I always figured I would know the type of woman to have an affair -- real sexy, flirting all the time. These posts show me that even so-called good people can have one.

I am pretty confused. I have no intention of breaking up my marriage or anyone's. I am happy in my marriage although there are the normal ups and downs in any marriage. But no big issues. I don't know this woman's real life, but I am guessing it is the same thing with her. So I wasn't looking for an affair.

When we exchange emails the word love or affair or anything physical is mentioned. she tells me that she is honroed to be my friend, that I make her feel good and alive. But I never said or did anything that would be romantic or like putting the move on her.

Is it best to just confront her and say I think you are falling in love with me? That seems egotistical and makes me look foolish if she says no.

I keep getting back to the pictures on her desk and calls to her husband. We all know couples who are in rocky marriages. The signs are really obvious. This woman is not like that. So that makes me wonder if I am reading too much into her friendship.

How about next time she asks to go out, "Sorry, I can't." After enough of that, she'll get the hint.

Nothing more needs to be said. But this should be your standard answer for any extra-ciricular activity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>makes me wonder if I am reading too much into her friendship. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If anything, you are reading too little into it, since you continue to try to rationalize.

Your own words:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>But I never said or did anything that would be romantic or like putting the move on her.
:
:
I keep getting back to the pictures on her desk and calls to her husband. We all know couples who are in rocky marriages. The signs are really obvious. This woman is not like that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Somebody sound the fog horn. This guy's got it bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ September 18, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Riff ]</small>

Cautious,

I would recommend that you ask yourself these question:

How would you feel if this woman was your wife and she was telling another man that he made her feel "bouyant and happy" and that this "friendship was just for her"?

What would your wife feel if she knew that you were having lunch with this woman?

I'm pretty sure the answer will allow you to see things a little different than you do now.

If you want my opinion, it's an EA. Turn away now. If there was nothing really going on, this should not be hard to do.

Cautious, just wondering, are you maybe afraid of your own wife being tempted or something? I mean, you keep mentioning how this woman was not the "type" to have an affair...not the flirty type.

That's kind of what this whole website is about...keeping marriages strong and avoiding getting our marriages in trouble. But, I personally now believe it has to have a solid foundation to begin with. I have spent years trying to keep mine together, explaining to those I sought advice from that from the beginning, I wasn't really sure I should have married my husband. Everyone insisted to me that it didn't matter, what mattered was staying married at all costs. We didn't have that solid foundation to build upon to begin with, so maybe I have been fighting a losing battle.

Anyway, I don't know if this is even what you are concerned about, but, if so, if you and your wife are truly in love and committed, and following the information listed on this website (such as no lunches that are making you uncomfortable), your marriage will be affair-proof. Your wife will only have eyes for you. You BOTH have to work at it and KEEP working at it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cautious:
<strong> Is it best to just confront her and say I think you are falling in love with me? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh...you've already told her no more lunches. Why do you need to say anything further about it? Just be co-workers, for cryin out loud. Why does this require more discussion? You don't owe this woman ANYTHING! You do, however, owe your wife a he*l of alot of respect. You seem to be more concerned with the feelings of this co-worker than you are about what's really important.

This co-worker's thoughts/feelings about you are completely irrelevant. It should not matter to you what they are. Period.

You seem to have put alot of thought and effort into thinking about this woman, how she relates with her husband, what pictures are on her desk, the type of relationship you have with her, etc., etc. That would've been time well spent focusing on your wife and how you could improve your relationship with her. Even if your marriage is great, a little maintenance here and there is always a good idea so that you don't walk into an EA unexpetedly.

As my Pastor says, now you can't say "I didn't know". You've been warned, so your eyes are wide open.

By the way...I'm the "librarian" type, too. Many people would be astonished to know I had an EA/PA. No one knew I was unhappy in my marriage.
Both of my FWH's OW were very bookish, married, and family-oriented, too. You just never know....

Lori

Dear Cautious,
Please be Cautious! Innocent little lunches with a co-worker by my WH are what led to an emotional affair, then a Physical affair and now the break-up of my marriage. I don't want to sound harsh, but if you are wondering about whether it's right or not, then it's not! I could go on and on here, but won't. PLEASE read the info here, listen to the advice of good people on this board.
KK

Earth to cautious...come in cautious. OK I have read 3 separate posts from you on this same subject. What are you missing here?

Lets go over the facts.

Youre happy
Lunch buddy happy
Wife happy
Lunch buddy hubby happy
Youre not the type
She is not the type
You've done nothing wrong darn it!!

Wow! You have just described 99.9% of all the men and women on this bored. They all start this way.
People have told you nicely. People have told you harshly. What does it take?
Dont go to lunch alone with her. End of story.

I wonder over the past few weeks you have been posting on this subject have you dedicated even 1/3 of the same amount of time to your wife. We've heard volumes about lunch buddy. How you feel about lunch buddy. How lunch buddy feels about you. And hou your wife know and youre not hiding. Think on this would you be perfectly unthreatened if your wife had a lunch buddy who complimented the way she looked. A man who made her feel alive. A friend who was hers alone...a special friendship that added to her life. I think that might bug you.

When you are married one person should add to your life, make you feel alive, etc. that is your spouse, one person shares your exclusive company. Stop trying to understand it. You dont have to understand gravity to know that a ton of bricks will kill ya when it falls on your head.

We're not saying this is a full fledged, ready for Jerry Springer affair, but believe us this is how they all start.

Another thing, sometimes wives act like the office relationships their husbands have dont upset them because they dont want to appear overly jealous or judgemental but still it bothers us. Some of us want to say "I trust you, nothing is going on." But in our hearts we're saying he is spending his free time with another woman.

There is no type that is prone to affairs. There is no one who is affair proof. I guess it is like homocidal maniacs...they look just like everyone else.

Please...Wake UP!

PLease get rid of OW. She is coming on to you in very coy female style. You want a woman's opinion, so I'm giving it to you. It is not necessary for you to understand it or analyse it. Just tell her no more lunches alone, no emails, no calls, strictly business from now on.

1. OK, so now, OW is gone! Close call!

2. What would really be cool is if you would tell us all about yourself and your WIFE.

REPLACED (by a coy, subtle OW just like yours)

I'm not done yet.

I would NEVER consider it appropriate to speak and behave the way your "friend" is to you. UNLESS both of us were UNMARRIED. Then it would be perfectly fine.

Friendships of this nature are a marriages worst enemy. Your worst enemy. Most importantly, do you want to be "friends" with someone who so blatantly steps into your WIFES territory without her full knowlege and permission? Full knowlege would be telling your wife all of the words OW has spoken. Giving your wife copies of each and every email, all of the info that exists no matter what it is. Permission would be your wife saying that every bit of this is ok, and that she is VERY ENTHUSIASTIC about the "friendship".

Get rid of her. (OW, not your wife) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

REPLACED (At least I was, not clear on the current status of that situation)

<small>[ September 19, 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Replaced ]</small>

Still not done.

Will you please reply specifically to my posts?. Would love to know what you think of my not so very humble opinions.

REPLACED (???)

<small>[ September 19, 2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Replaced ]</small>

Hi Cautious

You have received many very good replies. If having lunch with this woman was similar to having lunch with a male coworker you would not be concerned that this as potential for problems. In my work, there are a few that are male/female that have lunch together and there is nothing going on, and it will remain that way. They are not concerned because they dont' sense that something "else". I think you sense that something "else" coming from her, otherwise you would not be asking for advise.

I hear what you are saying, that you don't believe she is interested in you in that way. And maybe she isn't at this time. However, if things continue like this, it has real potential to explode.

I don't know if you recall in my reply to you about how I was starting to have fantasies about a male friend from work. Because of this, I stopped having lunches with him. (Oh, I forgot to mention, we probably met for lunch about once every month or two, so not very often.) We didn't communicate by e-mail. I know for myself, I was having these thoughts based upon my own unhappieness in my own M. My H is not attentive, he puts his own needs first. It was very flattering to have a male person listen to me. I didn't even discuss my problems with him. We discussed people we knew from our past employment, and if we kept in touch with any of them. That sort of stuff. So, it has been about 9 months since I've had lunch with him. The only contact I have is an occasional e-mail, where it is purely work related. My thoughts have gone back to realistic thoughts. I wonder, could I resume the occassional lunch and keep it strictly friends and I not fantasize about him? I don't know. Because I don't know, I will not have lunch with him. Especially, with my M, not in its healthies condition, I question whether this is possible on my part. I do know, that my M matters, my kids matter. Where my M will be by the end of Plan A, I don't know. What I do know, is that if my M fails, it will not be because I was unfaithful.

<small>[ September 19, 2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

I suggest you read Bill from Canada "Is this an affair?" and see where things could go if you are not careful.