</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>
My gosh, this is so stupid! This is supposed to be a marriage, not his and OW's stupid games!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right this is sooooo stupid, childish, petty, irresponsible...whatever you want to call it. I think he knows what he is doing is wrong and is trying to hide it. I'm also wondering if he's thinking that if he plays these games long enough that you'll file for D and he's off the hook and doesn't have to take responsibility or be motivated to do anything. He's probably telling himself he doesn't want to hurt you any more than he absolutely has to, not realizing his behaviour now is devastating. IMHO, if I were you, I'd carry on as usual. I'd work on myself, make myself a stronger, wiser, healthier and all 'round better person.

Maybe, he's avoiding you 'cuz he thinks there will be a scene and you'll ask the 'tough' questions. Next time you meet, don't give him that satisfaction. Start looking great, acting happier, more independent.

This only becomes a game if you decide to play!! I think, for the time being, you'll have to be the adult in all of this childishness. Let him and the OW play their silly games...no one said you have to play along too.

wow, mgm, great advice, never thought about it that way, being the "adult" in these childish games.

He did contact me via email and said he wanted to "talk", when I asked him about what, he said the "The whole shabang is what I want to talk about".

We may talk Wed or Thursday evening, I have a feeling that this "talk" is because he was with OW all weekend long.

I have tried my best to look "great", when I see him, I have lost about 5 more pounds just recently, since I felt like I was going through another D-Day, had a depression diet. I really need to firm up and do the Firm tapes. I'm 5'3, 119 lbs, but feel out of shape!!

IMHO, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> this upcoming meeting is the perfect time for the 'reverse babble' technique that Orchid suggested. As an aside, if you are not prepared to meet with him, then don't. If I were you, I'd want to be the one to set the date for the meeting. He's trying to control you and the situation. As I said before, he can only do this with your 'consent'. Don't give it to him. He has been 'calling the shots' for a long time now, because you let him. It's time to stop that, it's time for you to do things as you feel ready to do them. Every time you capitulate to his wishes, you look more and more needy. I'm also pretty sure he thinks he got you figured out, your reactions are predictable to him. He uses that to his advantage to get what he wants, when he wants it. Only you can stop this.... I'd start by asking him to be more specific as to what he wanted to discuss, since you'll need to come prepared. As well, try and meet during a time that's convienent to you.

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

mgm:
He did ask me what day would be best, I told him Wednesday evening.
When I asked again what he wanted to talk about, he said to worry about it on Wednesday, whether its good or bad, so I have no clue!

If he wants to babble on about how he wants to be with OW, I don't want to hear it.

Should I tell him that if this is going to be a repeat of the last conversation we had (about 4 weeks ago, when I posted all of his "points" he wanted to make), that I would rather not talk at all.

Or should I just suck it up and deal with it?

Excellent! You decided on the meeting date. As for him not informing you of what he wants to say...I'm guessing this is another game/tactic of his. It's easier to get what you want, when you want it, if you've managed to catch your 'victim' off guard.

Here's what I'd say, what you do and say is up to you.

"WH, I've got a lot of things going on at this point. I'd like you to be more specific as to what you'd like to discuss with me. Has there been a new development in your life that you wish to discuss? I've already told you how I feel about our relationship and what I'd like to see happen. I no longer wish to 're-hash' old details nor do I want any more surprises(you've surprised me enough, thank-you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). The fact that I'm tired of surprises should be enough for you to extend the courtesy of letting me prepare for our meeting. By the way, how long do you think you are going take??" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>Here's what I'd say, what you do and say is up to you.

"WH, I've got a lot of things going on at this point. I'd like you to be more specific as to what you'd like to discuss with me. Has there been a new development in your life that you wish to discuss? I've already told you how I feel about our relationship and what I'd like to see happen. I no longer wish to 're-hash' old details nor do I want any more surprises(you've surprised me enough, thank-you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). The fact that I'm tired of surprises should be enough for you to extend the courtesy of letting me prepare for our meeting. By the way, how long do you think you are going take??" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you ever say that to your FWH when he was still in the fog? What was his reaction?

mgm: OK, I sent him something similiar to what you suggested. He came back with the response of wondering what else I had going on in my life. Totally ignored my question about what our topic of discussion is

Upon d-day, I did alot of LB!! For weeks after d-day my FWH lied to me. We were lucky, we went to MC 3 days after d-day, so we got help right away. After weeks of lies and 'surprises' I said "Enough!!!". I couldn't handle that anymore and told him so. I tried to say it in a loving way and I said it in front of the MC, as well. The MC was great and explained to FWH why the lies and surprises were so destructive. It helped my FWH to hear that his behaviour was torturing me and preventing me from recovering.

In any situation the lies and 'surprises' are destructive. Your situation and mine are different, so the way issues are handled must be different. To not LB does not mean sacrificing your self-respect and basic principles. It does NOT mean placing yourself second. Keep in mind that no one is perfect and once in awhile, even though we try not to, we will LB. You have the right to be treated with respect and dignity, it's not something you should ever beg for. If he won't treat you properly on his own, then you can make the effort to create a situation where you are treated with respect and dignity. I'm not suggesting you make demands (that can be a LB), I'm suggesting you look out for yourself and create a 'safe' situation where you can feel good about yourself and emotionally prepared for whatever comes your way.

Hope that clarifies things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just let me know if you still need me to be clearer.

LMAO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
re: message you sent.

He is a piece of work, isn't he??!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> At this point, unless he is willing to take a step towards you and open up to you I'm not sure you must open up to him. I'd repeat myself to him as briefly as possible and let him know ( as lovingly as possible) that your life and what you do is no longer any of his business. This MUST be said as kindly, lovingly as possible. You are no one's doormat! Stay strong, keep your chin up, you can do this and you will come out of this mess a better person.

well, I did send him another email saying that if it was going to be like our last conversation, than I would rather not talk. He didn't respond to that, he is off work by now, so he either ignored it, or didn't get it before he left.

Should I call him? I do have a reason for calling him having to do with the house, see if he brings the conversation up or not.

Nope, unless it's an emergency/urgent, let him contact you. I think he likes the idea of having both you and the OW 'chasing' after him. If you don't want to play their childish games then don't!

Hey NOW... don't lb! I saw that you don't want to talk if it is like last conversation! You will be ok! Be sweet as pie- no matter how hard it is. You can do it. This is the time to be good as gold and let him be the only one to lb. I know you can be like Jesus- that is the only way to win here... if that makes sense.

Now I heard a sermon sunday on forgiveness.. you can forgive period, I know you have... even if he does not want to apologize and make right what he has done... keep this in mind.

I am glad you held out and he finally contacted you... wow! what a long time. I think I need back on the hold out plan. It is really hard to do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyway, be calm- perhaps he is ready to give things a try now...

If he asks for a D... well then, ask him to consider No contact with the ow for 3 months and go to 3 months counseling.... or somthing like that.... who knows? dont use my words... ask steve! Dont push.

Heck, I don't know what to advise, but I am here for you as a friend. I have home email again, the same one back on.. I stayed home with sore throat and small amount of fever today. Boy it has been nice to be a mom today.

I am so proud of you for holding out on the NContact and letting him touch base with you. GOOD GIRL.

Your figure sounds perfect in weight and etc... now do those firm tapes.

I am going to try mine this afternoon... If not to look good to get the endorphins flowing.. .in fact about to try it right now... pray my vcr will not tear my tapes! I cleaned it twice.

Be happy! His stuff is still in thehouse!

Hugs and love to you, HOnEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

well, I probably screwed up. He had told me he was going to come up and get his mail after work and then had to go back to work for a meeting (that is what he said, he is probably going on to OW's for all I know).

Since I knew he would be going by the house, I called and asked if he would fix something in the bathroom. I didn't realize when I asked, but I just did laundry last night and have my new black bras and black thongs hanging on a drying rack that he would have to pass going to the bathroom.

He knows I never wear thongs, do you think he will wonder??

I also told him that if our talk was going to be like the last one, that I would rather not talk at all. He then told me to expect the worst. I again told him I did not want to talk with him. He then said that he didn't want me to get my hopes up and that he will talk to me later. I haven't talked to him since.

Due to his own decisions...your underwear or lack thereof <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> is no longer his concern. Who cares what he thinks...to be honest, he'll think whatever he wants, you can't control that. I think you should take him at his word and prepare for the worst. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. If he wants a D, then let him do all the work. As was suggested, you may want to try to get him into MC. That may or may not work. IMHO, if he wants a D so badly then he can take all the necessary steps to make it happen. Just to protect yourself you may want to get yourself a lawyer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong>If he wants a D, then let him do all the work. As was suggested, you may want to try to get him into MC. That may or may not work. IMHO, if he wants a D so badly then he can take all the necessary steps to make it happen. Just to protect yourself you may want to get yourself a lawyer.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I'm definitely going to make him do all the work if that is what it comes down to. I did not ask for a divorce, and I am not going to pay for something I don't want. If I was to file, he would also get the satisfaction of saying I wanted the divorce, taking the load off of his back.

GC,

Following your sitz here and mgm has been giving you good advice. Now for what my 2 cents is worth, I'd say that you not only need to set the time of when you talk but if it should come up again (from him not you), interject that yep you have some stuff to say also. BUT DONT GIVE IT AWAY. He will wonder and wonder until that date. You can either move the date out or keep it but you will also have to come up with something to say. So I recommend you start thinking real carefully about setting your boundaries. You have 2 days right? Decide what 2 things you must see in him.

Ex: for me it finally settled to the fact that
a. OW must be out of my life (including all
had contact with her).
b. WS needed to meet our needs (W and family)

More was to follow, that was just starters. No whining about it being to hard either. Remember I learned to live without him. OW could have all of the WS needs and I told him so. I even volunteerd to send his bills to her address!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.