Messed that up !!!
Jante

<small>[ September 20, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

<small>[ September 21, 2002, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Well SS was rightcut and paste went odd and computer shut down on me so I thought I'd lost whole post!!!!
Sorry for any confusion. I set out to post a new one because I reread my last thread and realised that it took me an hour and a half to wade through it and I knew what I'd written. I'm sure no one else would want to read it all. So quick recap for all who come here not having read my story- and it gives me chance to realise how far I have come!
H worked away from home 1998-2000 and towards end of 2000 I found out he had an A.
H promised to end A - did so Jan 2001 and I found a job and planned to move nearer to H's work to work on M.
Feb 2001 H admitted to new A and moved out - I went ahead with move to England and near H's work.
H visits our 3 boys 2 a week for most of past 18 months.
H agreed to c but the counsellor gave up on us after 5 sessions as H refused to do anything.
I found MB Feb 2002 and have been learning and working on self and M since.
H took new contract which means he now lives and works 150 miles away- lives with OW -2
Have gone from feeling devasted at lost and blaming myself to feeling detatched and able to see where fault lies in both our cases.
H continues to visit the boys, chat with me do jobs for me and invite me out on trips with boys and him.
This summer H had boys for nearly 3 weeks - 2 with OW which was their first time meeting her etc.
Our marital home in Scotland just sold and H and I have agreed equitable split amicably.
I no longer get intensely upset when H leaves, talks of OW or mentions Dv- though he has only done the latter 2 times in whole 18 months.
I am aware of a growing 'what will be will be ' attitude on my part, but continue to work at myself and to leave the door open for H to return.
H is becoming increasingly sheepish when with me.
H is becoming further and further distanced from three boys.
H's job in London and the house sale will both end on same day 31st Oct.
OW lost job at Easter and as yet hasn't got a new job.
I am managing fine financially and have my own home.
This all makes it sound so clinical at doesn't do justice to the pain I have gone through but healing has come and the future looks bright what ever H decides.
I have realised that while loving H is part of the battle I also need faith in a God who has only good things for me, and hope that I will see the goodness of God in the land of the living.
I also need commitment, to my marriage vows and to the promises of God.

I am now back in a waiting stage , but believe that the end - one way or another- is in sight.
SS I was going to reply to the above post as well but will do so later.
Jante

Hi SS and thanks,

"Right now, there is nothing like those things to put all your energy into and you feel lost. I still feel you should just wait, at least to the end of Oct. If you just can't stand it, find a short term project like reading the Bible and getting closer to God that you can concentrate on until it is clear to you what needs to be done. "

Thanks SS have just applied for a temporary job, teaching 11 year olds 5 mornings aa week while I wait to decide what else I should be doing!!

" T spends time with the children in a variety of ways- but for the most part theses days if he's at my house the children are out with friends and he sits around . My first thought is that he is really coming to see you. What do you do when he is sitting around? My second thought is that he is a confused man and it's worse than I thought. "

He comes to see the children-BUT may well enjoy seeing me as well. He never lets on though if that is the case. If I am here then I sit and chat and also do jobs around the house, last time he was here with me, he fixed a broken window while I fixed dinner!! However more often than not I am out and about while he is here. We have had less then 2 hours inteaction together in the last 3 months.

"I hope you don't mind if I just give some of my feelings about what happens when people do really bad things. When we are trying to do right, we have a two way thing going with God. We reach for him, ( and this applies to people that don't know God, he helps them if they do the best with what they know to be right) he gives back to us. He gives abilities, he gives faith, he gives us greater desire to do good. When we do something we know to be wrong, we loose that help. We are lost, we loose faith, we don't have the drive to do even normal things we used to do. We are left to ourselves and often it is not fun. It applies to our family relationships, our work, the whole fabric of our life. A very strong dynamic person can go on sometimes almost normally. But most of us can't and we falter and our lives start to show the effects of our "sin." You may also notice that he is not as happy as he used to be and he does not know why."

Very true- though he puts it down to having so much going on in his life!

"J, you need to think some what on your options should he express a desire to come back. It will not be easy to let someone return that has almost wrecked your life. You may find it more difficult to let him return than it was to let him leave, and your feelings were pretty strong at that time. I have wondered how T will bridge that gap between where he is, and where he will need to be. How would his pride let him ask to return? It may be up to you to do that also, to find a way to have the "return" conversation with him. Are you up to it?"

Have been asking myself the same question- how would I raise the subject without appearing to be pursuing, after all he was pretty clear last time we had OR discussion that dv was his answer. I have also sometimes wondered how I could let him back into my life having got so used to doing things my way and being responsible for everything myself. Also how would I cope with trust. Yet I don&#8217;t obsess about him and OW anymore- in fact never think about them together.

"So, what have you found out from God about yourself in the last few months? Has he taught you some things that you were surprised to learn? Have you learned any more about God? "

I have found out that my faith is real- ie not affected by the outward circumstances but based on the reality of my rel. with HIM. I have also learned more about patience- I wouldn&#8217;t say anything was &#8216;new&#8217; just more of what I already knew.

Thanks for making me think things through again. I am not sure where we are at but as I posted above feel something is about to change, partly because I am not wanting to go on living like this, not out of the pain any more but out of needing conclusion and the chance to move on in some way. However I see the Oct. thing as very significant. H's job may well end then, castle sold, I will be financially secure, but I suspect that though H has been waiting for this money to make his own situation secure it won't be enough.

There is a peace in my life at the moment beyond what I would expect against such uncertainty!!

Jante

Hi folks quick update-
H came to see children yesterday as normal, but had to come by train as he had a puncture. That meant that to take the boys out , and it was a lovely day so worth a visit, he had to borrow my car. He therefore invited me to join them. I went along, to enjoy the scenery and company. We had a lovely meal at a county pub and then visited the local water sports centre. H arrange for boys to have a sailing lesson. That left the 2 of us on the shore for an hour and a half waiting, we stood and chatted for a while then I wandered off and sat down, H followed and sat with me and continued to chat . Then suggested we had a drink. Yet again SS he seems to be seeking my company out- I hadn't spent much time with him for past 4 months is it a good idea to encourage times together or go back to spending as little time as possible with him. Oh and when I commented that the town I was going to for an over night stay next w/e had no restaurants that I could find he insisted on going on the net to look for me!!
Jante

Hi J,

Mixed feelings about the weekend, so busy I didn't have time to think. Tried to put some of this together in my mind but since I didn't have time, will just type as I think.

Have been asking myself the same question- how would I raise the subject without appearing to be pursuing, after all he was pretty clear last time we had OR discussion that dv was his answer. I have also sometimes wondered how I could let him back into my life having got so used to doing things my way and being responsible for everything myself. Also how would I cope with trust. Yet, you have as much said that if God could get him to come back, he could get you to love him again. I will say more about him ( H) below.

Yet I don't obsess about him and OW anymore- in fact never think about them together.
I bet there are a lot here that wish they could do that. If you could bottle it and sell it, you wouldn't have to work again.

I have found out that my faith is real- ie not affected by the outward circumstances but based on the reality of my rel. with HIM. I have also learned more about patience- I wouldn&#8217;t say anything was new, just more of what I already knew.
Hmmmmm, why am I not surprised? How close are the boys to knowing what you know? Can you see them getting it? Some days I think my children are close, others I wonder if they will ever learn. I wonder if my own father thinks the same about me?

Thanks for making me think things through again. I am not sure where we are at but as I posted above feel something is about to change, partly because I am not wanting to go on living like this, not out of the pain any more but out of needing conclusion and the chance to move on in some way.
Yes, there is no reason to be married to someone that will stop by ever once in a while, but lives with someone else. I have often felt like asking " why don't you just Dv him and find someone that will love you?" but I have always felt strongly it would be the wrong thing to say. I can never understand just how God could make it work, but I am pretty limited in my thinking. I still think it will take a miracle, but I know they still take place.

However I see the Oct. thing as very significant. H's job may well end then, castle sold, I will be financially secure, but I suspect that though H has been waiting for this money to make his own situation secure it won't be enough. I believe it will take more than his job ending, and even more than OW leaving him. That's why I have such a hard time with my feelings that you will be together again.
To bad that he has gotten himself into such debt. I hope it is not something that you will have to help fix.

There is a peace in my life at the moment beyond what I would expect against such uncertainty!!
Isn't God good to us? I marvel he can take someone like me and make me into something. I am happy for you and hope it keeps up.
Hi folks quick update- H came to see children yesterday as normal, but had to come by train as he had a puncture. That meant that to take the boys out , and it was a lovely day so worth a visit, he had to borrow my car. He therefore invited me to join them. I went along, to enjoy the scenery and company.

So, what were you feeling while this was going on?

We had a lovely meal at a county pub and then visited the local water sports centre. H arrange for boys to have a sailing lesson. That left the 2 of us on the shore for an hour and a half waiting, we stood and chatted for a while then I wandered off and sat down, H followed and sat with me and continued to chat . Then suggested we had a drink. Yet again SS he seems to be seeking my company out-
I wish I could read his mind, and that makes two of us, doesn't it.
As I said a few days ago, it looks like he is coming to see you, like the boys are an excuse.

I hadn't spent much time with him for past 4 months is it a good idea to encourage times together or go back to spending as little time as possible with him. This may sound odd, but I suggest plan A, spend time. BUT, also continue to drop hints about how things will be different after D. You are pretty much in tune right now, you should feel what to do without any help. ( but I know, it always feels good to have others comment.)

Oh and when I commented that the town I was going to for an over night stay next w/e had no restaurants that I could find he insisted on going on the net to look for me!! Guilt, or love, which is it?
I have never had an A, so I don't understand many of his feelings. I think God will show you what to do and say. I feel strongly that he will. You have asked before how you could ever bring up his coming home with out it seeming as pursuing - I believe when the time comes, you will know, and it will come naturally to you as thoughts from God.

Well, I still have that "wait" feeling about you. I wish I was more help.

What day are you leaving for out of town birthday trip? I can't remember you saying who would look after the boys? Did I forget? Honestly, some days I can't seem to remember anything. I signed my real name the other day and had to change it before I posted. One day I almost signed some business correspondence "Still Seeking."
My dad says I am just getting old. .... and don't you laugh, you are not far behind me, miss Birthday Girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS , hope you're w/e was good despite being busy. To your questions:

Hi folks quick update- H came to see children yesterday as normal, but had to come by train as he had a puncture. That meant that to take the boys out , and it was a lovely day so worth a visit, he had to borrow my car. He therefore invited me to join them. I went along, to enjoy the scenery and company.

So, what were you feeling while this was going on?

I did give him the option of taking the boys and I would stay behind but when he invited me I agreed to go- 1. It was a lovely day and I wanted to be out with the boys in the sunshine,
2. I enjoy his company despite everything and we haven't spent much time together recently.

What day are you leaving for out of town birthday trip? I can't remember you saying who would look after the boys?

I leave on Saturday and return Sunday- its just the one night away but will be good to relax and enjoy other company. the boys are staying home with T , so he can look after the animals as well. He is planning to take them for their first try at ski-ing on a local dry ski slope. The children and I have discussed having a 'good' holiday when the castle money arrives and their choice is a ski-ing holiday. I'm hoping to combine it with meeting friends so I get some fun as well.

In earlier posts you said about letting him read my posts when this is all over. I have started to print them out- but its going to be a long job. However i do find it very helpful to read back and see how I have changed and the psoitives in it all.
Jante

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

Hello Jante,

I have all these thoughts running around in my head and I will try and get them out today.
So, lets talk for a few minutes.

I enjoy his company despite everything and we haven't spent much time together recently.
It is very good to read this, I always worry about you. It is a very good sign for many reasons. I will give them to you if you wish, but I think you know them.

I leave on Saturday and return Sunday- its just the one night away but will be good to relax and enjoy other company. the boys are staying home with T , so he can look after the animals as well.

"That is as it should be."
I'll let you figure out who I am quoting. It may not have been as popular in the UK as in the states. You would have only been 3 to 5 years old when it came out, perhaps you would not remember. ( I can't remember the exact dates.)

Perhaps it is time for another talk with him. But this one is not a set up one, and he need not reply. More later.

He is planning to take them for their first try at ski-ing on a local dry ski slope.
The boys will have fun and if T will go down the hill with them, he will also and it will do a lot to re-bond them.
I don't ski any longer, due to a break in my ankle some years ago. My younger children say they have been cheated. Not much I can do at this point. ( note, I was never very good at it, we have to travel away from the desert to ski.)

I still say he is doing these things to see and talk to you. ( say, did I change the subject? Sorry.)

In earlier posts you said about letting him read my posts when this is all over. I have started to print them out- but its going to be a long job. However i do find it very helpful to read back and see how I have changed and the positives in it all.

I hope I did not say things that he would take exception to.
It's easy to see that you have had tremendous growth. I once said I was amazed, or words to that affect. I mean it. And that brings up the next subject. ( I know, another of "those" posts, but you need them sometimes.)

Lets see, how do you have a R talk that's not a R talk.
Well, you just drop hints in normal conversation. You say things you have never said, in ways you would not usually say them. All the while, you are making it sound like you are moving on. Let me demonstrate some of the ideas.

You know T, I have grown a lot through all this and I am a much better person now, in a way you did me a favor. After you Dv me, I'll make someone a really good wife. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Well, this one is probably a little strong, but there are some you could perhaps use. I should say that I have been thinking along the lines of how to invite him back without seeming to persue.

One of the problems of the past was that you were not able to say these types of things and maintain a "straight face" as they say. ( I don't know if that figure of speech is used in the UK, it probably came from there, but we have so many mixed cultures in the US that I never know.) I think you could do it now.

Imagine you are talking to him about - well, anything. You are perhaps standing in the kitchen preparing something and he is sitting, and you are both talking. You stop what you are doing and turn to face him. You are silent with a kind of smile on your face and he watches to see what you will say.
"I have thought about us these last few months, and I am probably more ready for Dv than I have ever been. But...... I wanted you to know that I still want to be married to you if you can figure out how to make it work." Then you turn around and go back to what you were doing, like the thought just came to you.

There is some psychology in that one, like a challenge for him to figure it out.

Here are some more, you could just drop them any time in conversation.

T, did you ever think about what it will be like after we are Dv'd?

Sometimes I think I think it would be better to be Dv'd, sometimes I think we could still make it work.

The boys want their dad back, and you know, I some days I think it could even work.

We had a lot of good times together, I'll miss those memories after we are Dv'd.

I suppose I am ready to move on, but I'll miss you.

J, I am just trying to make you think - about making him think.

I KNOW you can do better than these suggestions because you know him better. If you do it, try not to burst out laughing at his expressions when you say things. I suspect it could actually be fun to try it and you may learn something. Don't have any expectations about something happening, and know that God will guide you. I know he will because I can't take credit for this idea.

It would have to be your way of talking, again, I am just trying to give ideas.

(Later)
I read back over this and I think it is pretty rough, I think you could do much better, but I wanted to give some kind of examples. It also occured to me that you may have already been doing this, you are usually one jump ahead of me.

SS

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks- I haven't talked in terms of H coming back, or that I am ready for dv in the sense you mentioned above. I have said things about ....when you d me..... and he has looked away. I will let what you say dwell in my thoughts while I am away this w/e and act on it as seems appropriate.
No contact again from H between visits ans as he isn't able to vosot mid week at tyhe moment its a week at a time with no contact with the boys. I will see what transpires with his new job but if he is going to only be able to see them at w/e then I will suggest he spends 2 full w/e a monthe with them instead of the one at present. Just Saturdays 10.30-6 pm isn't enough especially as the boys spend so much of it out playing.

Shame there is desert where you are, I have promised the boys a ski- ing holiday at new year and am contemplating combining it with a visit to friends in US.
Jante

I am not suggesting that saying any of these things will bring him back. I don't think they would. I think it may give you a way to see what his reaction would be. I think it may cause him to think in ways he would not usually do. If you could get comments about love in somehow, it would be in his mind if the other things were to happen, and he may reflect on it.

I suppose it could be considered advertising. People advertise so that when you need or want their serivces or products, you will think of them. ( and it works)

I agree he should have the boys the whole weekend. It would make it real for him. They would benefit from contact with him also, as much as I hate to see contact with OW.

Shame there is desert where you are, I have promised the boys a ski- ing holiday at new year and am contemplating combining it with a visit to friends in US.
I think you may be teasing me now, but probably my turn. You know, I really can't tell.

We have a ski resort about 1 1/2 hours from here and my older sons have gone snowboarding there often. 2nd son and 3rd son both broke their arms ( not at same time, about a year apart.) there.

They were jumping way to high for their experiance levels but they said "how do you expect us to get any better if we don't do hard stuff." So, we have an area close but I have not skied it, my experiance came in Colorado when I lived 20 minutes from the ski hill. Most of the teenage boys (here) snow board now, not ski. I must remember that an 11,000 ft peak and ski runs down from it, would probably be higher than what is in availible the UK.
If you are really considering it, we could arrange to take the boys. My 3rd son is at home with us, and 2nd son plans to come home from Texas between Chirstmas and new years, mostly to snowboard, so it would be easy to go with someone that knows the runs. (He does visit with his mother and I a little bit when he is here.)Last winter he flew home ( 1500 miles) two times just to snowboard. BTW, the sons do know how to find the hills that are a little easier where arms don't get broken.

I really don't know if it would be good for you to say those things to H, but if not it will spark something else in your mind. I believe I was susposed to say them to you.

SS

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Good Morning J, and Happy Birthday.

Lets see, I think it goes like this.

Happy Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday to you,

Happy Birthhhhhdayyyyyy Dearrrr J***t,
Happpppyyyy Birthdaaaayyyy tooooo Yooouuuuuu.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi SS and thank you . I have had a lovely birthday- had friends round this evening and had a great time- its good to fill my home with friends once more. the festivities don't end here tho, tomorrow I am meeting with other friends for n over night stay.
The comments about ski-ing/snow boarding were not really teasing- I am seriously considering taking the boys for the first time between Christmas and New Year, but would also like to spend the time with friends so there is something/someone for me as well. I have to confer with old neighbours who regularly go in the north of Scotland, if they are going this year we hope to join them, but the alternative is to travel abroad so who knows we may yet meet.
Jante

Hi J,
happy birthday again.
I am so happy that you had a nice birthday. I find myself wondering if T recoginized it?

I hope you have a lovely time visiting with friends. You do need to do things for you, and don't ever think it is not important.

I spoke with my wife last night about all that is going on in the lives of the friends I have here at MB. We talked for close to 2 hours. She is probably busier than I am so she never gets on to post ( although she reads links that I send to her.) I told her about your "perhaps" trip and she said you should come and visit. She started on a list of places we could take you and things the boys could do. She probably has a better list than I do. She seemed to think that you and she would be fast friends in a short time.

Actually she is a much nicer person than I, and more refined and outgoing. She has never been shy. I often say I married above myself and have been trying to catch up ever since.

You could send the boys skiing with my older sons and tour the sights with my W that the boys may find too boreing. ( history, and so on.) W seemed to think it would be good for our children to be exposed to, and make friends with someone from a little different culture.

And no, I am not making this up.

Well, have fun the next two days. Tell all your UK friends hello for us.

Sorry for singing a little off key, I have been practicing but still need work.

SS

( later)
I think if you go abroad you should ask T if he wants to go.

<small>[ September 27, 2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks for your last post. Had a lovely 24 hours away and enjoyed the relaxation and company. Got back about 3pm and T stayed until 6pm. The boys had had their first ski-ing lesson and thoroughly enjoyed it. Was discussing with them tentative thoughts about the holidays and mentioned I had had an invite to US ehich I was considering. The boys quite like the idea. T showed interest in my plans so I told him he was welcome to come with us but he shrugged and said he thought not.
Later I chatted about my w/e away and even mentioned the people I had been with. H showed interst in suggesting places I might like to go with them next time!! I then said that I thought he's done me a favour by leaving as it made such things possible. I had a cup of coffee to my mouth as I said it so as to hise my grin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
T looked a bit stunned and changed the subject. He is considering buying a boat after Levan sells, and showed me its details. When I commented that it looked so nice I wished I was out on it he said "well when I get it I'm sure you'll be able to go out on it if you want to" !!!!!!!
Oh with regards to birthday - he says hes sent me a card and book voucher. It hasn't srrived yet but neither has my mums, and when I expressed appreciation and surprise he shrugged but didn't offer any explanantion of why hes bought me a present.
When he left I asked for a hug which he gave me.
Things seem to continue in a confused state, and i am beginning to feel confused.
Jante

I don't know if I should comment on each item or not. I think I will not today.

YOU are doing very well. I hope your UK DB friends had some good suggestions for you. I am so glad you have good friends to help you. What a blessing.

Some of what T does continues to be a mystery to me. When he comes to see you, many of his actions are consistent with being in love with you. Except that he leaves and lives with someone else. This seems to me to be out of the ordinary even for fence sitters but I can't say I have studied this much ( my focus at MB has mostly been to help myself and this is not something I needed to know about to help my Marriage.)

Does H know how you met the friends that you were away with? Does he know you are all working on your marriages? Or does he think it was a romantic getaway? Or do you care what he thinks?

Did you laugh out loud after he left? This is where I say "good show."

It is an accomplishment to be able to experiment like that when you still care. I wonder exactly what your feelings are, and so do you sometimes.

I am glad you trust in God. I do also, if I did not, I would be advising you to Dv him.

I believe you are a good student of Dr Harley and also of Christ. I believe you know and understand how to be Christ like and how to apply MB knowledge and ideals. God has done some mighty teaching and you have learned well. Now it is T's turn to be taught, and I believe he will be taught. I worry how God will get his full attention so the lesson can begin.

I still feel to wait. ( meaning I have nothing really that I feel to say that is new or exciting.) Mostly I post to you things you already know. T continues to amaze me. Keep praying for him ( I know you will, why do I even bring it up?) and I will also.

I hope your Mum is doing well. You would probably say if she had a relapse. I thought a few days ago about your sisters. I wonder how their marriages are doing. I have tried to suggest MB ideals to some of my family but they seem to think that nothing can change or improve and they should just continue to muddle along. ( not quite that bad, but they don't seem to grasp just how good things can be, and they don't seem eager to do the improving.) I wonder if you ever feel to teach your sisters what you have learned, and if they would listen if you tried to help them. I don't know if they need help really, but everyone has room for improvement.

Also today, I don't mean to try and sway your choice of a holiday. It seems that often we extend invitations to others and they think it is just a courtesy - to be polite. We wanted you to know that it is real, made out of friendship and we would be very pleased if you someday took us up on it. Whatever you are able to do will be good for the boys I am sure. While I am on that subject, don't let T off that easily. As you make plans, include him in on what you will do. Talk it up to him and make whatever you are going to do sound exciting and wonderful. Continue to drop hints that the boys would get a lot of good from his going. If nothing else, have fun with it, an try not to laugh in your coffee cup.

Things seem to continue in a confused state, and i am beginning to feel confused

Let God have it for a time, and don't worry about it. You hate not knowing, and will do almost anything to make the future better and more clear. You can't stand just waiting when you could be working to make things better. Until God makes it clear to you, do what you can and don't worry about what you can't. I would appreciate if you expanded on this statement of yours. I thought I understood what you meant, but just had a new thought come to me. Perhaps It is either better, or worse than I first thought.

D and A seem to be pretty athletic, how did C do with the skis? Was if fun for him?

I don't always get everything on the first go round. Are you OK? And don't say you are, if you are not.

Rest up, can't imagine the 11 year olds give you much time to relax.

SS

Hi SS
Thanks for ypu comments as always many echo my own thoughts:
"Some of what T does continues to be a mystery to me. When he comes to see you, many of his actions are consistent with being in love with you. Except that he leaves and lives with someone else"
I find it hard not to read his actions this way but don't want to get my hopes up to be disappointed.

"Does H know how you met the friends that you were away with? Does he know you are all working on your marriages? Or does he think it was a romantic getaway? Or do you care what he thinks? "I haven't told H where I met my friends- so I'm not sure if he knows as the boys know but haven't mentioned whether they told H and I don't think they would unless he asked. Neither do I think he seriously thinks there is a romantic connection though he may do but if he does then he is acting as if he approves. He was suggesting places where e might like to meet next time!!

"Things seem to continue in a confused state, and i am beginning to feel confused .I would appreciate if you expanded on this statement of yours. I thought I understood what you meant, but just had a new thought come to me. Perhaps It is either better, or worse than I first thought."
My confusion relates back to the earlier part of the post- is he still in love with me but not willing to admit it. I suspect i confuse him as well as I am distant some times and then on Sunday asked him for a hug!

The weekend was very relaxing and I appreciated it. The boys are very active and I am told they all did well at the ski-ing. Will continue to look into [plans for The holidays.

Thanks for the invite we do appreciate it.
Jante
ps would be nice to know the name you are usually called by when i xpalin to my mum about the possible visit to the USA!!

I hope you are well today J.

I read your posts and have many thoughts come to me, but I always get one simple thought that seems to win out.

Wait.

Hope the 11 year olds are fun to teach. Do they do what you ask? Or is it hard to teach them?

I often wish I knew more, could understand better, and were able to solve more problems here on MB. I do know that God has all these abilities and he helps us as fast as we can take the help. I suppose that should be enough for me.

I know you know, but it always helps to be told again. God loves you and he will help.

SS

you've got mail

Hi SS and thanks have read mail and will be proceeding possibly with the ideas- although flights to Utah are rather more than I expected!! However what ever holiday I choose is supposed to be a holiday of a life time for the boys who have only had caravanning hoildays and sailing holidays in uk in past. So may decide to splash out in a big way!

I am not teaching at the moment 11 year olds or others but m still working on the research and materials for children and parents to use.

Have almost settled in my mind to stay here and do work on this house rather than move. There are a number of plusses-
1. The children have had such a disrupted education already and if T comes back to us then that may mean another move for his work.
2. D is very sttled in school and does seem to be working fairly well, I think another mve may put him back to not working.
3. A has some very good friends who encourage good academic work, and sport and fun play without the silliness that he could become involved in.
4. Realised when I had my birthday do how I am settling into the neighbourhood and making friends
amd am slowly settling in the church as well.

So until a green light for a move comes I will stay put.

Jante

Travel between Christmas and New Years has got to be expensive, no matter where you go.

If you came to this part of the world, you would want to fly into Las Vegas Nevada. It is the closest major airport and probably cheaper. ( but still, holiday travel is expensive.)
I hope the boys enjoy whatever you do.

I had thought you mentioned teaching 11 year olds once a few weeks ago, but perhaps I remember wrong or it was a temporary thing?

So, wait it is. Hard, isn't it.

SS

<small>[ October 02, 2002, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>