Ok, received this e-mail from WW to Om. Om called me today to tell me he was ending it with WW. He apologized for hurting my family and said it was done. Now, I know not to believe anything he says, I am just going to keep plugging away working on myself and taking care of my kids and not worry about this. When I got home from work today WW was visibly depressed and upset. OM called me later to tell me she had called and he told her it was over. That he is 1500 miles away and that she needed to take care of her husband and her kids. She said he was lying and hung up on him. He sent me this e-mail he said so I could see what she was doing. She will never know I have this. So I am not trying to use it against her, ever.
Anyhow here it is, I have some questions at the bottom.

I don't really care if someone sees this email or not. Damn you! Why are you doing this to me. I will take care of everything here, do you not understand that. I know that I can do this. I know that I can be a single mom with two kids. There is nothing else left here to do. I have tried for years and I can't keep trying. I am burnt out too! There was a reason why you and I met, and I have gotten used to having you around and it is going to kill me each day that I don't get to talk to you. What happend to everything that you have said to me? What happened too all of that? I thought you wanted to keep me? Dammit, fight for me!!!!! All I want to know is that you need me as much as I need you, and I don't want to hear that this is how it has to be for now. I am SICK of hearing that. Just be honest with me and tell me the truth, PLEASE, that is all I am asking. You and I both know how hard this is going to be for both of us to stay away from each other. Don't do this!!!! Don't cut off all communication with me. I want to know that you are okay and you are still out there. And I know you want the same. Please email me back or call me if you want. One more thing, I know now that my feelings for you are stronger then your feelings for me. I am getting ready to leave to go out with my GF's and just wanted to know if the no touching rule still applied?

Ok, someone please tell me that this is part of the fog. Should I really believe the stuff about her and I in there? Has anyone come across this with their WW or WH? I know she is upset at OM and she is angry, depressed etc. But Should I believe any of it or just let it go in one ear and out the other?

It hurts me to hear my WW tell another man these things. She has never said them to me before. But in a weird way I also feel hurt for her for her feeling rejected. Is that odd?

Anyhow, any replies would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping this is a good sign, but after reading this I am unsure if things can ever work out between us. But I will not give up till she says she wants a divorce.

TORO

TORO,

There is no interpratation needed, you already know. Is there fog? I dont know. Read everthing on this sight, prepare yourself for anything. Be strong your going to need it, your children are going to need it. DO WHAT YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO DO, you need to protect you and your children.

I know you wouldn't be here if you didn't love your W, but it take's two for it to work. The OM has rejected your W, you need to PLAN A now! Be what ever she need's you to be. It is going to hurt.

Dont be affraid to vent on this forum.

TORO:

"Ok, someone please tell me that this is part of the fog."

Toro, this is part of the fog!!! It really, really is. I'm sure you'll find out that MANY of us have heard these kinds of things from our WSs.

"Should I really believe the stuff about her and I in there?"

Not really. Well, for her RIGHT NOW, it might seem true. But she's fogged and not really thinking. Do you really think that she could be happy with this man "raising" YOUR kids? It's a nonsensical thought, but she can't see that now.

"Has anyone come across this with their WW or WH?"

I think we all have, in one form or another.

"I know she is upset at OM and she is angry, depressed etc. But Should I believe any of it or just let it go in one ear and out the other?"

Well, think of it as a cry for help. Only don't address the "points" in her email directly. The help she needs is your love for her. Be there for her. OM can't (and thankfully, won't, it seems). This will take time. You need 2 make her feel "safe" with you. Over time, she'll begin 2 experience withdrawal from her OM, and YOU will be there 2 comfort her, not him.

"It hurts me to hear my WW tell another man these things. She has never said them to me before. But in a weird way I also feel hurt for her for her feeling rejected. Is that odd?"

It might seem odd, but it's very typical.

"Anyhow, any replies would be greatly appreciated. I was hoping this is a good sign, but after reading this I am unsure if things can ever work out between us."

Again, don't dwell on what was said. It's nonsensical fog talk. It will pass and be replaced by reason SOMEDAY. Things CAN work out for you. This IS a good sign. The A is over, because OM ended it. But because your W didn't want it 2 end, you will have a depressed, even despondent woman on your hands. Try 2 be there for her, as I've already said. Only you can right now. It will be hard, but this is not just your M you're going 2 be saving, it's your family.

"But I will not give up till she says she wants a divorce."

And there's no reason you should have 2 give up even if she DOES say she wants a DV!

please take care,

Hey bro.

There is nothing quite like reading one of those, I know. God...my prayers are with you. For me, reading this is like looking back in time...about 18 months ago. Once, as I was trying to be "Mr. Wonderful" in Plan A mode, I read an e-mail where WW told OM all our weekend, and concluded "I wish it could have been with you." I think having my heart pulled from my chest would have hurt less.

No crystal ball here, but if my experience is typical, I'd say that she will have a hard time letting go of OM. Obviously, OM is fleeing. And WW is persuing. The weird thing about A's is that the WS could, if they really wanted to, just get a D and go w/ the OP. But your WW hasn't. Ya know, she says how she can't live without him, blah, blah, blah, but she doesn't take the steps necessary to seal the deal.

This is the part where I'm not sure the continued snooping is more helpful or more painful. I continued, but I don't know if it is advisable. You'll read a lot of crap that someday you'll wish you could forget but can't (as above).

As for the FOG, well, the fog is that she says she's gonna leave you (and no one is stopping her) but she hasn't. This is all part of the fantasy world they create in A's. VERY VERY FOGGY.

Don't try to make sense of it. It doesn't make sense. Keep coming here for reality checks. (I wish I had known about MB back then).

Keep reading stuff here. Get a plan together (sounds like you've started). Stick to it. Keep posting. Keep praying!!!!

Thanks all for the replies. I was thinking the same thing but just wanted to hear it from someone else. Yes, I am going to continue to be there for her. I will show her I love her and show her respect as well. Been a pretty tough day all around. Found out early this morning that her encounter with OM was physical and now he has said he has ended it. I hope he keeps his end of the deal. Being 1500 miles I think helps. I may post back sometimes to ask about a particular situation that I might be facing with her. Thanks again for all your help.I don't know where I'd be without you all. Well, I do, I would not have swallowed my pride and I would have just filed for DV myself back when I first found out. Thanks you all again. I can truly say all of you have a place in my heart.

TORO

Toro,

Don't know if you've read SAA yet or not. If so, you will remember the part where Harley describes the addiction to the A as being like an addiction to drugs or alcohol. This being the case, imagine if you were to take either one of these substances from an addict that wasn't ready to quit. Probably much the same kind of reaction that your wife is having at this time.

I also have read letters that my WW has sent to OM and the words in there have had me convinced for a time that her feelings toward him are so strong that she could never love me again. Then I come back here, read some more and bring my thoughts back in line. Reading your post here is one of those that allows me to see someone else's pain and look at my own situation and see it for what it can be, rather than listening and believing that WW's words right now are carved in stone.

Give it time. It is all happening pretty quickly right now. Pray that this is actually going to be the last contact that OM is making with your WW. It may not be. Don't want to be the doom sayer, just have learned a lot here that sometimes it, doesn't end that cleanly.

Keep praying and working on yourself. As prescribed here, look at the things that you may have helped do to bring your marriage to the point where this relationship found fertile ground.

Good luck and God Bless

<small>[ September 20, 2002, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Biscayne ]</small>

Hello Toro,

I don't post much, just read here and the info pages but I couldn't resist jumping in because no one else has said this yet....Use this fog babble in your Plan A!!!!!

For example,

quote:
I know that I can be a single mom with two kids.

Toro Talk:
I know that I can be a single dad raising two kids....but I love you and want us to raise them together.

quote:
Dammit, fight for me!!!!!

Toro Talk (good for after a mistake or LB):
Dammit, I'm fighting for us and our marriage and I screwed up again! I'm sorry....I'm going to keep learning about better ways for our marriage because you're worth fighting for.

Get it? But don't overuse what you pick out of her email and don't do it all at once or she might pick up on what you're doing....little doses go a long way over a period of time. Use this to learn what WW wants from om and then work on giving it to her. If you learn anything about om that WW doesn't like then make sure you don't do it. To me, using info to my advantage was the only thing that made the pain of knowing any details worth it.

Take care Toro.

TORO - 2long nailed it.

The more time you spend reading about others' stories, the more you will realize that there is no interpretation needed. She's reading right from the WS script.

HA! the "no touching rule"!!

Sounds pretty adolescent, doesn't it?

That's because it IS adolescent!! And very, very, very typical of WSs totally fogged in.

Proof once again that they all report back to the same Mothership.

I recommend you hang on to this e-mail, do not show it to your wife, and delete it from your post in the event she ever joins us here. Eventually, you should tell her you have it, but not before doing so would still be a HUGE LB.

And YetAgain has some excellent suggestions.

WAT

<small>[ September 21, 2002, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Just an update. WW is really upset at me at the moment. I think she thinks that I told OM to end it. I DID NOT. I told him it was up to him and her. That I had no say in the matter. So I am sure she is upset thinking I ended her A for her.
She isn't talking to me right now and is visibly upset and quiet.

TORO

Wow, it's noon here and she is just laying in bed. Says she doesn't feel good. Read another e-mail from W to OM, basically begging for him to call her. He hasn't so far.

TORO

Toro,

I am gonna stick my 2 cents here just as a thought.......

The OM basically is trying to end it and she doesn't want to let go but still uses your for her other ENs? Hmmm.... sounds like a cake lady.

When I dealt with the cake man (WS), I found it neccessary to tell the WS to go to the OP and let her meet ALL his needs. I no longer choose to be a part of the 'triangle' they created. She needed to have the good,bad and ugly parts of him. I had to deal with the bad and ugly so I 'graciously' gave it back to him to 'deliver' to the OW.

How? By giving the WS (like the OW did) a list of my demands (he owed me $$$). Told him that now his 'new love' could carry his bills. Big EN of his at the time. See the OW wanted to play but not pay. I knew her type so I used this to my advantage (very stingy with her funds but willingly used others but good at giving the impression she was generous - WS fell for that one hook, line and sinker but not ME!).

I told him that I didn't care where he got the $$ even if he borrowed it from the OW. He took my challenge (see it was NOT a bluff) and he called me from the OWs house with the 'bluff' that the OW would be 'willing to pay'. He was asking how much. Well I had my figures and said $##,###.00
He flipped, but I had figures to back me up and he knew it. Well she agreed to some but not all. NOpe, needed all of it. Didn't care if he indebited himself for the rest of his life.

Then he backed down. Begged to come home. OW wanting to write a check ASAP and begging him to stay. I said I didn't want a man in debit home, I wanted him to take his debit elsewhere (by the way he still needed to pay child support). He got off the phone and after a couple of weeks, came back home with plans and promises to be an H (a better one), a good father and a responsible person. Hm..... I told him I would think about it and then decided to give him another chance.

The point of this story is that in my case, I had to push them together for him to work his way back. The OW was in the background of another call (about 2 weeks later, telling me to take him back, L, take him back) while he was on the phone while at her house crying to come home!).

But it is a risky task. Not recommended for the light hearted. Gotta be prepared to go both ways. My heart hurts just retelling this story.
But it was neccessary in my case.

L.