Shoot! I could go to Rock Center, but I am going to be away on a ski trip on that date! If people end up changing the date, let me know.

H-P, gosh I am sorry for your situation.

<strong>The problem is, I think, that he isn't receptive or open with anyone, even our kids. He is friendly, but he never opens up at all to anyone. He used to do so with me, but just me. </strong>

I think that part of the problem is that it sounds like relationships are very difficult for your H. You are the one person he let in, and then you betrayed him and hurt him terribly. So he has closed the door to you as well.

You have to remember, TIME TIME TIME. It's only been 4 months since you broke it off with OM- after being apart for 2 years. So your H is understandably very reticent to get involved again. Deep down, he's probably thinking- what if she gets back with OM, or finds another guy? How real is this? Why should I expose myself to the possibility of getting hurt again? Is she just coming back because she doesn't want to be alone? Why should I just turn around and take her back after she hurt me just because she WANTS it?

The problem is, you can't really force your xH to have any kind of a relationship with you.

I think right now all you can do is focus on trying to increase the contact between you and xH, try to build some kind of connection. I thought the way you handled asking about the shopping was excellent. I know it hurts to be rejected.

I do think it might be better to back off on any R talks. Maybe even tell him that you understand his feelings, and you accept that he may feel it's too risky to get involved with you again. Don't try to persuade him!!! Then just focus on trying to create those opportunities of contact and connection. Call him with a bunch of gift ideas, say what do you think should I buy X or Y?
Then thank him, and hang up. I think you need to just focus on establishing regular comfortable (even if it's brief) communication. Ignore any negative stuff coming from him. And don't cry.

Any possibility of getting him to do an activity that includes both you and and kids? Maybe he'd be more willing to do that?

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

oops double post

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

hi again hopeful. no your reply doesn't seem harsh at all. my comment regarding being proud is in respect to your own admission, and also, posting that you knew that when om moved to near you that continueing the relationship with him was a mistake. being proud sometimes we will not cut our loses and take the punishment. but hindsight isn't that worthwhile is it? As far as your ex being afraid that you might take up with another man, I doubt it , not from who I think you are and who I think he is. you are not easy come , easy go. neither is ex hus. there in is the crux of the problem. if you and ex where the types to find friends here and there maybe so, but I don't think either of you are. he is not worried about you being true ..he is concerned about being true to himself. what you said aboutthis being hard on the children. true, but coming from you this won't carry any weight with him. the only ones to give him this message are the children. how did he find out about this other man and the affair.? also, did he ever meet the om or see you with him? too, Im trying to learn if you want the relationship with ex for his happiness , or yours. that is the reason I asked the question if you knew of a suitable woman who could make ex happy would you introduce them to each other. a hard question. not trying to be hard on you . you are a really good person it comes accross in your posting. just trying to help you get to some place not so painful.
God bless you hopeful

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your postings. Last time I posted, I was feeling low. No wonder, I was on the brink of the worse flu I've had in years. I now am feeling more human, and can type. I've missed two days of work already, something I rarely do.

A brief update, first...
DD came down with this flu on Friday evening. My sons were already at their dad's. I emailed exH very early Saturday morning to get the emerg. hospital information on our daughter, in case his insurance had changed hospitals. (my provider recently did) He emailed me back right away that morning with the information, and told me to let him know if he could help. I simply responded later that evening with a thanks, and that she seemed to be doing better. I was upset that he never called to talk with her all day, to just say a few words to her. He never has been one to communicate too much, but this seemed rather unkind to me. DD doesn't even know I emailed him about the insurance information.

I got sick Sunday evening, so I called exH to see if he could drive sons to school Monday morning. He agreed to do that. AFter sons were home from school I asked them to please walk to the store, to get me some 7-up, for my stomach. The store is over a mile away. They kind of hesitated, and said, 'Can't we ask dad to get some, and bring it by on his way home from work?" He was due back in the area soon. I said,'You will have to call him." They did, and he agreed. He dropped it off. Later on in the evening I called to thank him, and then I asked if he'd transport to school again today. He agreed to, willingly. But that is the extent of our conversation. He never asked me if I was better, of course not. I can see now that the demise of our R has turned him into a very different person as far as 'coldness' is concerned. He was always a bit detached, but not so with me. Does this make sense? I guess for someone who finds it hard to show warmth and communication, when they finally do--it's amazingly kind. On the other hand, once it's broken, it's doubly hard to get that trust/openness back.

A good friend of mine asked me to join her on New Year's Eve. Her parents' family own an upscale nightclub/restaurant locally. Her spouse will be working there that night. She said, "Oh, we can have dinner, and then there's dancing. You can meet new people, have some fun." I said, "It's really sweet of you to offer it, but I will be spending it with my three children, as this is our tradition."

I am sure that from her point of view, my situation with exH is hopeless. She only knew OM, as she is a friend of just about two years length.
I'm sure she's well meaning, but going out to some nighclub/restaurant is the last thing on my mind.

Sharon,
Thanks for your words of support. I appreciate it very much. You said,

"Many of the feelings of rejection, the feelings of distance from your H. They are so similar to what we BS go through."

You're so right. I am sure my exH felt very much rejected, although from my point of view it didn't seem like it much mattered to him. He never said much, but then again that's his style.

I have let go a bit more lately. But it isn't easy to do.

Kily,
Thanks for your good wishes and hugs. You're so kind, too. It does look like you have a friendship starting. It seems that your exBF at least talks to you. You're right, Kily, in the big timeline this hasn't been very long for exH. I do feel though, and I know I keep bringing this up...I did bring up reconciliation shortly after DDay. The reaction then was 'no'. I brought it up off and on all along, during separation. It has always been the same, "Not now, maybe some day."

You're right, I decided against the plant idea. It would put him on the spot, people would tease him, etc. No good.

Yes, I know that my reaction to his behavior in the parking lot were a self defense against rejection. I truly do love him, and I know that he is still having a hard time with me.

Thanks, too, for saying:

"Since you don't do this, I will punish you by pulling away. THIS IS WHAT STARTED THE ORIGINAL CONFLICT! This is the pattern has to change in order to get to some resolution."

You're so right. I must not let this push me away. I won't do so, not at all. You're right, Kily, this sort of defense shows no love at all for him, nor for me.

You said,
"He was running out of fear. His thoughts will be of a woman that is making demands on him. He is feeling that you are looking for the same things that he couldn't provide for you in the "M" and increased pressure further pushes this notion into his head."

I see your point on how I could have handled the whole thing. When I first saw him we were about 15 feet apart. I guess I should have just said, "HI", and when I saw he wasn't stopping to talk, I just could have gone on my merry way. This goes so counter to me, but I guess I need to think of HIM. What a novel idea!

I will look for Greg Baer's book, thanks! You are so , so kind !!

JL,
Thanks for your response. I am laughing to myself at the hug suggestion , in this case only. The logistics were such that in order to meet him head on with a hug I would have had to RACE to where he was, and attack him frontwise like a football player. But, nonetheless, I get the point!

I like what you said, about it being more about how we act, and not how we react. I need to really think about that one!! Thanks!!

Espoir,
Thanks for your insights, too. You said,

"I think that part of the problem is that it sounds like relationships are very difficult for your H. You are the one person he let in, and then you betrayed him and hurt him terribly. So he has closed the door to you as well."

You're so right, and I do need to remember time, time, time. He may be worried I might change my mind in a minute, and go back to OM. On the other hand, I think he knows me better than that. I think he is doing this to 'punish' me, in a way. So be it, I still love him, either way.

I will ask him out again sometime, and I guess that chances are he will again say no. Such is life.

You're right, no more relationship talks. It just doesn't seem to do any good, and it only upsets him. Persuading is never good, anyway. I don't want to be with someone I have to persuade to be with me. I like your idea on calling him with gift ideas. I'll do that as soon as I recover better from this wretched flu bug.

I mentioned with him awhile back about doing an activity with the kids. His answer was 'no'. I will ask again, however. Thanks, Espoir, for your help and caring.

Checkers,
Thanks to you, too, for your words. You said,

" being proud sometimes we will not cut our loses and take the punishment"

How right you are. I think that part of the reason I held on to the A for so long was to prove to myself that it was 'love'. Isn't that crazy?

I wish my children would give him the message about how this divorce has affected them. One of our children is now on anti-depressant medication. That didn't seem to give exH much of a message. I've talked openly with the kids, and said they should talk with their dad about the D, but they said 'We don't talk with him about stuff like that." So I don't know how to change that.

No, ExH never met OM. He never saw him, either. I want to reconcile because I feel that our marriage was very good, overall, and I made a huge mistake in a vulnerable condition. I can't imagine life without ExH, and I want to be able to show him my love again. I feel I did make him very happy for years, and he knows this too. I feel I want it for the collective happiness of all of us, the whole family. Also because I feel it is 'meant to be'. But then, who am I to say? I am not the one who decides!

My flu bug is now demanding that I rest. Thanks to all of you for your help and caring.
God Bless,
HP

H_P,

You said he should know better than to think that you would change your mind about him again. "He should know me better than that." Ah! H_P that is the rub, he doesn't. You must realize that he doesn't know who you are. You know you are pretty much who you were before the A, but he doesn't know that and he is afraid of finding out.

You also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Many of the feelings of rejection, the feelings of distance from your H. They are so similar to what we BS go through."

You're so right. I am sure my exH felt very much rejected, although from my point of view it didn't seem like it much mattered to him. He never said much, but then again that's his style.

I have let go a bit more lately. But it isn't easy to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H_P, I doubt he would have showed you how he felt. Remember he was separated when he found out about the OM. He had asked you to keep loving him, but you couldn't. Frankly, what could he have said during your A that you wouldn't have thrown back in his face. You have never talked about how you treated him doing the first parts of the A, but for him to leave suggests that you were pushing him pretty hard. He didn't know about OM then. I am sure the pressure from you for him to leave, is still pretty close to the surface of his memory. THen to find out it was an OM in the picture and he had been replaced. Tough stuff H_P. I don't think you truely realize how tough. If your H is like most guys as the pain got worse he withdrew, he didn't cry, he didn't beg, he just withdrew.

He is in withdrawal right now.

[quote]Kily,
Thanks for your good wishes and hugs. You're so kind, too. It does look like you have a friendship starting. It seems that your exBF at least talks to you. You're right, Kily, in the big timeline this hasn't been very long for exH. I do feel though, and I know I keep bringing this up...I did bring up reconciliation shortly after DDay. The reaction then was 'no'. I brought it up off and on all along, during separation. It has always been the same, "Not now, maybe some day." [/qoute]

How could he have reconciled with OM in the picture. You, yourself said you kept the OM around toward the end, just to prove you were right. But that was 4 years into this. While I know you offered to reconcile, what you didn't do was get rid of OM. I don't see the option your exH had. More importantly he didn't see the option either.

H_P, I am on you about this stuff for a simple reason. This is going to take quite awhile and you cannot allow yourself to get down or your feelings hurt over things that are misconceptions on your part. I know some of this is the normal human defense to things we do to ourselves. But, judging your exH's actions during the affair and then getting down or mad because he didn't respond as you liked is not a good thing for you.

You must face that your exH is in withdrawal. Read about this state here. It is very difficult to get out of and most BS's face that job regularly. Your H wasn't going to accept the idea of reconcilliation until OM was goine. THat has been, as Kily pointed out, only be about 4 months.

So keep your composure, be a good mother, and keep trying. My guess is that your H feels he lost the woman he married forever. He doesn't believe that she can come back. He is right, but what he doesn't know is a more mature, enlightened, and decicated W is waiting for him. My guess from what you have said is that he is very depressed. He will have to come out of that as well.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks, JL, for your reply .

AS always your thoughts are appreciated. You're quite right, I suppose, when you said,

"You must realize that he doesn't know who you are. You know you are pretty much who you were before the A, but he doesn't know that and he is afraid of finding out."

You are so very right, in fact. About six months before the divorce was final, he told me he was afraid that after it was final I would let OM move in here. I said, "You know me better than that." He said, "Well, I thought I did, but this is all a huge jolt."

JL, I see the A on my part as a type of breakdown of some sort, inside of me. Does that make any sense to you? I'm not excusing it, I'm just telling you how I view it. It was like a complete shift from who I was, and who I had been my whole life.

I had forgotten about how I more or less 'forced' him to move out, JL. You're right about that. I was tired of the lies. How could I have let OM have such an influence on me? Yesterday, on my sick bed, I was watching a program and it talked about a woman who was influenced so completely by a man that she did ridiculous things that he suggested. This reminded me, of me...with the OM. What in the world was my problem?

When he left, the A was almost 2 years old. That is incredible. It was long distance, infrequent meetings--but the E part was there all the time. When the A first started (four years ago now!), things weren't so bad at first. It was all fantasy, I suppose..internet baloney. It was after I met OM in person that it began to fall apart more. I am so mad at myself, of course, for how I treated my exH. No wonder he is as he is towards me! He did know I talked to OM all the time on the internet, but he didn't show much upset over it.

I did offer to not see other man, of course, when I wanted to reconcile. (I told exH way back what a great man he was, and that no one compared to him. ) I didn't , however,break up with OM until July of this year. That's true. I know that sounds 'lame'. I was far too emotionally attached to OM. I thought I was, more like it!

I don't mean to sound defensive...I know I do in the above paragraphs. I appreciate so much your help, JL. I like what you said,

"This is going to take quite awhile and you cannot allow yourself to get down or your feelings hurt over things that are misconceptions on your part. I know some of this is the normal human defense to things we do to ourselves. But, judging your exH's actions during the affair and then getting down or mad because he didn't respond as you liked is not a good thing for you."

I need to remember that, and perhaps copy it down and place it somewhere to read often. I find myself still crying quite often at what I've done. I truly feel I had some sort of twisted mind to do what I did. Does that make any sense at all?

I couldn't find anything on this website regarding withdrawal. Is there any particular place where it might be? As far as my exH's depression, is there anything I can do? When I did say to him, about a month ago, "I think you are depressed." He said, "Yeah, I might be." I suggested a doctor but he only got upset with me.
Any ideas on what I could do? Could our clergyperson help? exH doesn't go there at all anymore, but I do --infrequently now.

Thanks for the encouragement. Getting down does no good at all. I just am so upset at the whole thing, the mess I've made.

Take care and thanks again ,
H_P

H_P,

I am not going to be around much to day. I have a few things to say. One, of them is that your post is NOT defensive. The point of my questions is to get you to talk and think as you are in fact doing. As you see things better, you will develop a better patience with yourself and your exH. You will begin to realize that in someways you are indeed starting over, but with memories.

By the way, you are not the first to post here saying : "What was I thinking, I must have been out of my mind." Further, the explanation </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> JL, I see the A on my part as a type of breakdown of some sort, inside of me. Does that make any sense to you? I'm not excusing it, I'm just telling you how I view it. It was like a complete shift from who I was, and who I had been my whole life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Makes sense to me. In fact in someways, I suspect it really is what has happened.

I must go.

God Bless,

JL

Hi HP,

I have been thinking about you. Just this morning on my dirve in I was wondering just how much withdrawl is affecting your emotional state right now. It seems that you and I have similar feelings and it leads me to wonder how much of that is related to just having the dust settle and getting our heads clear.

Have faith and believe in what you are attempting to do. Regardless of the outcome, it will only make you a happier and healthier person in the end.

Glad to hear that you're feeling better.

Kim

H_P,
I believe I have some understanding of what you are talking about when you mention something breaking down in yourself. I believe you had and perhaps still have something very broken inside of you. I suggest you get yourself some psychotherapy to find out the underlying reasons you betrayed your vows and acted like someone you weren't.
My wife has had some similar experiences to yours and she went to several months of psychotherapy to understand and repair the damage she had done to herself. I do wish she had done this work 20 years ago as we could have avoided so much pain and damage to our marriage and our children.
My impression is that you need to find out who you are and figure out what you need to do to remain that person in the face of life's turmoil and temptation.
I believe that MB is a great place for those of us affected by A but that EN concept only scratches the surface of what is going on in the WS. I know that in my EA I knew that there was something VERY broken in me from the beginning. It took nearly a year of very hard work and much uncomfortable searching in myself to begin to understand what was broken and fix it.
In reading your posts it is apparent that you take full responsibility for your actions. You do not put off any of the A on your husband not fulfilling your EN. Kudos to you! My wife and I each had affairs (she PA and EA online A, me EA) but she USED to believe that I had equal or more responsibility for what was wrong with our relationship that "caused" her to have her first affair. She no longer believes in this concept and now understands that the A was completely or her doing and had nothing to do with what was wrong in our marriage.
During her 2nd A she went into therapy and I refused to accept ANY responsibility and lo and behold she was able to make wonderful progress in the same area you talk about (who she is, was and really is).
I believe that this is the real road to recovery and eliminating the pull of having an A. I know that I have not been in any way at risk for being unfaithful for more that 25 years due to fixing what was broken in me.
By taking the A as completely your own, you have given yourself the power to overcome its hold over you. If you put some of it off on someone else, you no longer can confront it and conquer it. Do yourself and your exH a kindness and do battle with and defeat what in you caused you to be unfaithful.
May God guide and strengthen you.

Hi, I don't think that I can help, but I just wanted to tell you that I was afraid to post a message until I read yours, because of what I have done.. I just hope that you are able to work it out.

I hope that everything works out for you and that you have a Great Holiday.

H_P,

Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. You know you are in my prayers. Sounds like you are dealing with a lot, try to focus on good not bad. Things will get better. Sounds like you are getting good advice from JL and Kily.

Take care,

Sharon

Thanks to all of you for your replies. On Thursday evening, I spent an hour responding, and somehow the whole thing got erased.

I won't have a chance to respond like that for a while due to pressure to get things done for the holidays.

I just wanted all of you to know I appreciate your words, I responded to all , and that I'm grateful for your help and support.

I guess even though I didn't get to post my response, the time I spent writing the response and thinking was helpful to me. I'm just sorry that I didn't do it on Word!

Thanks again,
HP

Hi HP,

I wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you.

In your last post to me you were comparing your situation with mine. One thing I want to remind you of is that you were actually MARRIED for a number of years to the man in question. We never got that far.

I still think that your situation is very positive. He is NOT in a NEW relationship, my XBF is. He is not LOOKING to be in a new "R" that you know of. You ARE affecting him, he's just not showing it.

Be patient, diligent, and have courage. This will work out for you.

I can't believe it's been a week since I've posted here. I've come a few times to read others' posts, but I haven't had the privacy here to post.

Right now I just wanted to thank everyone for their support and kindness. I am pressed for time, and I need to get a chore done before a repairperson arrives here.

I have nothing new to add since my last posting. I haven't seen nor talked with exH. I have sent him a few 'newsy' emails, news stories that made me think of him, that sort of thing. I have not received a reply on any of them. It is like he doesn't even wish to acknowledge me as a human being at this point. (sorry to sound down, that is just how I see it) In one of my notes I did profess my love for him, and my deep regrets at my A and how I saw it as a nervous breakdown of sorts. That didn't get a response, of course not. I am still in shock that he is being this cold towards me. I'm sorry , I know it's my fault, but that's how I see it.

My pastor called last week, to see if I was 'better' since August. I had to be honest, and I told him 'no', as I'd seen no progress at all since August. He of course told me to hang in there. He said, as all of you have, that exH's response is very normal, even at this point.

Like I said in my last posting, I spent about an hour a week ago responding to each of you on your previous thoughts. Somehow the whole thing got deleted.

JL, Kily, Sharon, Michael, Cerebros-thanks for responding. Your words mean so much to me.

Michael, I think I will seek counseling after the new year begins. Even though in my previous counseling sessions (after sibling's suicide, previous marital help) I never was viewed as 'broken', obviously my self-destructive A meant something was amiss in my psyche. You're right, Michael- it was pure self-hurt, and hurt of others I love, too.

I'm praying that next Christmas my family can be intact. Realistically, at this point it looks doubtful. So be it, if that is the case.

Thanks for your help, and I"ll post later on when there's time and privacy here.

God Bless,
H_P

July was your NC date? Is that what you meant when you said you "broke up" with OM in July? When was your very last contact with OM ... of any sort?

You might still be in emotional withdrawl from OM ... do you think your emotional withdrawl is coloring your attitudes toward your XH's self-protective actions? (Hint, I do)

Pepper

Hi Pepper,
Thanks for your response. I hadn't thought about the possibility of my emotional withdrawal from OM coloring my response to ExH's reactions to me. You could be right,but I felt that by the time I ended it with the OM, there was not much of an attachment from which to withdraw. The relationship had been souring for months and months, and OM knew that I still loved my exH. I know it sounds repetitive to those here who've heard it said before, but I wanted to try again with my exH just two months after Dday, which was in February of 2001. When he said "No", again and again, I felt that he didn't really care about me, anyway. Thus I stayed with OM , even though I knew the R with OM wasn't a healthy one. I know it makes no sense to others, but that is how I saw it.

However, Pepper, you could be right on some level. I do still have OM in dreams, although they are always of the negativity and always very much 'downers'. I see my R with him as the reason for all of my unhappiness now, with all I've lost. Furthermore, Pepper, even though the R with OM was negative, it was very intense and involved lots of daily contact. I ended it with him in July, and he called me again in early August. I had to hang up on him. No contact since...his email address is blocked. He also moved back to his own area, thankfully now closer to his children. I feel awful about his family , too, by the way. AS far as I know , he is still separated from his wife, but living more in that general area.
Thanks for your help,

God Bless,
H_P

hi hopefun one. reading your post again. I have to differ with pepper on this. from what you post your withdrawal was easy, a relief if any thing. you emotional reaction to ex may be more the dissapointment of not being able to correct this thing. I believe you are a person to try very hard to make up for things which you feel you have done wrong. I bet you are a great mom and do a lot for your kids. you get a lot of support on here and thats great, but sometimes we need hard observations from others to get anywhere with hoped for changes in our lives. so here goes. you post that you were self destructive? I have mentioned that we do have an unconcious mind that does affect our behavior. often unbeknowing to our concious awareness. but I do believe you didnt believe your behavior was self destructive? why? because you posted that as late a june you expected ex to come back to you, and you would be able to restart again with no loss. that is not a self desructive outlook. you said that the repeated nos from your hus, regarding trying again caused you to believe he didn love you. I believe, given my take on him as a very serious and deep feeling man , that it is his love for what you and him once had that makes him say no. he knows that is dead forever. to him to get back together would probably be a charade of a past loving marriage. he will not settle for that. I can understand you staying with the om from just needing someone. but your ex? what did he see, he saw you ask to try again and still was in contact with om. I was taught to ignore what people say , only watch what they do, and base my decisions on that. what you were doing did not conform with what you were saying to him understand. remember he is probably a very practical man. you had daily contact with om and you said very intense. a personal question, did you have daily sexual contact as well? I would bet that your husband, as indifferent as he may have seemed knew you were in daily contact. did he. this is important..if so then , as I and most men would , would simply assume sexual contact as well. he probably knows more than you think he does. you would be much farther along had you broke it off at d day, but hindsight ,, what good is it. unless we can use it to change the future..that is important. first we must know ourselves. then as shakespeare said we can be false to no man. you ex hus. undoubtly has a lot of pride this makes many decisions for him. that one reason I suggested you think about a new location, if no more than accross town. I will add another take from a man's point of view. you have indicated that you have even told ex that om was inferior to him in all ways. that sounds like a compliment , no? do you know what he may have heard from that? that even though om was substandard and no comparison you dumped him anyway. and now how is he going to reconcile that with anything that makes sense. either you are lying and you thought om was the stuff but just dont' want to hurt ex, or you just wanted a walk on the wild side. I get the impression that om was shallow and was ,as you said obsessive about sn? also that he was no mel gibson? at least if he had of had those kind of looks ex hus. could say well maybe I can understand? but how is he going to excuse this or forgive. you have to give him some reason to hand on to? pleading insanity will not do it for him. ex hus needs a good reason to forgive if he ever can. these points
ex probably knows more than you think and assumes the worst.
he needs a good reason to be able to accept your behavior. saying one thing and doing another will not do it.
he is a prideful man.
telling him that om was /is inferior to him will not wash.
he knows he was not your first choice at time of seperation.
he now thinks that he is a safety net. and there is not much reason for him to think otherwise.
he feels great sadness over what has been lost, he likely thinks you just want to have you cake and eat it too.

I will post some suggestions as regards to possible directions for you to take at a later time. God Bess you hopeful your nutty professor

Hi H_P,

Sounds like you are busy. I think even though this is a hard time of year to be busy it helps get us through. I can't imagine anything more depressing than sitting around thinking about what my Xmas "should be". I am sorry your H continues to shut you out. I only wish my H would show even a hint of your remorse and longing for a renewed R. Just hang in there. I will pray for you.

Take care,

Sharon

Hello,
Just wanted to start off by saying I had a spectacular dream last night where my ExH and I were reunited and planning a remarriage ceremony, BEFORE the new year. (or maybe it was next year, at this time) I know it's only a dream, and if only a dream could come true.

I only spoke with him briefly last evening on the telephone, about some arrangements for our children. He was sounding upbeat and very polite, friendly. I didn't extend the conversation, as I'm always afraid to push. Furthermore, our children were all with him, and I didn't want to take away that time from them. They were trimming his tree.

Hi Checkers,

Thanks for the long posting. It was kind of you to take the time to do so.

I appreciate your opinion on me not going through withdrawal from OM. I see it as you do , too, as a relief. I knew I should have ended it for years.

I am extremely disappointed that I can't correct the huge wrong I did. You're right, this is my nature in all of life. I don't have any enemies anywhere. I'm the 'peacemaker' type of person. The one who has friends who don't like each other...I can get along with everyone at my work, for example. I'm not saying this to 'brag', but I try to look at the best in everyone, and tolerate their oddities. To some I'd be wishy-washy, but I don't view it that way. Once a friend of mine, years ago said, "We should always love people where they are at." He was a gay male, and I often wonder what became of him. I knew him right when AIDS was first in the media, and I knew he lived an active lifestyle. Coincidentally, another older female friend said this to me about 8 years ago, and she is the polar opposite of this man on a religious and political level. I think they're good words to remember. I wished I'd remembered the words and been more loving towards my exH, and loved him where he was at, with his non-expressive ways and all. Instead I turned to OM. He was the opposite, overly emotional and needy. What a fool I was.

Checkers, you said,

"I do believe you didnt believe your behavior was self destructive?"

I did believe it was self-destructive, even if I did think ExH would forgive me. Every time I would go to see OM, or talk with him behind ExH's back, I would think to myself..."You are hurting yourself, you're drowning in a pool of emotion..you're hurting all you've believed in." And I would continue going the way I was going.

I think that many who have had an A would agree that it is a completely intense experience. I depended on OM for way too much, emotionally. I can only compare it to an addiction.

You're probably right, the deep love my exH had for me probably does prevent him from taking me back, so to speak. Any suggestions on how to undo this?

I appreciate your suggestion as to moving across town, but it is not a practical one for me. I'm fortunate to be a homeowner, considering I didn't start my 'career' until a few years ago. My income is fine for this mortgage payment, which is really very little more than apartment rent in this area. (The house was purchased by us years ago) To move across town would be sure financial ruin for me, considering the small amount I owe on this home compared with newer mortgages. I've often heard and read of how poorly women fare financially after a divorce. I don't wish to do that to my children, it makes no sense. My exH is also a practical man about money, and he would advise me not to do it. He isn't the type to be so sentimental that this house would represent OM or the A to him. He and I bought it together, 12 years before A. OM never lived here, and my ExH never saw him here. Thanks though for your opinion.

Yes, OM was as you described him. I just don't see how I can convince exH to forgive me, no matter how OM was. There are some truths about my R with OM that ExH and no one else knows, and I don't know if it would help ExH to know, or not. It involves the SN thing. Probably not, can't talk about THAT when he doesn't want to even talk at all.

Yes, please post some suggestions to what you think would be helpful. They're appreciated.

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for your words, too. I think you're right, good thing we're busy. I try not to think about what Christmas should be. My children will be with exH on Christmas Eve, and with me the next day. I did ask my daughter to go with me to church that Eve, thank goodness she agreed. I don't want to go alone on that night. I have no other extended family in this area .

I pray too that your husband comes around, so to speak.

It's funny, you mentioned flirting on your thread. I have to say that I think I used to flirt when I was married, in a 'lowkey' way. (not serious about it, just friendly--I was married, it was 'safe') Now that I"m divorced (oh my gosh, not 'safe') , and hoping and praying for a reconciliation, I don't even think of doing it. A few weeks ago I was with some friends at a nice place for a Christmas gathering, and a man came up and asked if we were all married. (yecch) My friend said, "Yes, we are." She knows I want to reconcile. The guy kept talking to me, and looking at my hand. (no ring) I must say he was very physically attractive, and seemed very nice. Just the same, I felt no interest in flirting at all. (He was freshly divorced, too) All I can think about is my ExH.

Not to sound cliche, but my self-esteem took kind of a beating from OM. He was critical about how I looked, in the end. I put on some weight during our R, stress eating I think. It was kind of reassuring to know that I was still 'okay', but yet I just wanted this man at the restaurant to leave me alone. I'm sure many women would have loved to be a friend of his, but all I could think of was my ExH.

Sorry to go off on this tangent, but I just wanted to share that with you.

I'm thinking of you too, Sharon.

God Bless,
H_P



Builders

H_P,

Don't have much to say right now. But, I do think you need to realize that you won't be able to convince your exH to forgive you. He has to come to this idea on his own. He will need to do it for himself.

I won't be around much this week, but I wanted to wish you and anyone else that reads this and celebrates Christmas, a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS.

I know you will have a better New Year than the last, and just maybe your dream will come true. I am praying it does.

God Bless,

JL