First, Asylne, that was a very good post. I relate in a sense to your husband. I am not making anything I would consider a 'move" on this woman. Despite what you all think, I am thinkin gabout this and the ramifications.

It has been good because the woman has been on vacation wiot her husband for a week and so there have been no emails or lunch. She comes back monday and I am thinking about what I should do or what I should not do.

Maybe it will all blow over and she will not say anything and it will go back to the way it was. I am trying to read her mind so I dont inadverntaly do anything that would make the move that you spoke of.

I like having lunch with her because it is fun. it is as simple as that. I am not trying to get her to bed. The person who said that I would bave a physical affair by the holidays is wrong.

She is a good upstanding woman who is married and has kids and loves her husband. To me that is a big safety net because I am not looking for an affair and she is not and so that makes it less likely to happen. If she was real flirty or dressing provactlively or telling me she wanted to go to bed I would run away. But she is not doing that and what is so wrong with having a female friend if it is simply that.

I know there are moral reasons some would offer or others would say what if my wife had a male friend like this. I don't know how to answer but she may have already because no one can be all things to all persons.

If a man and a woman intellectually know they do not want to have an affair and do not want to go to bed isnt it possible that if it is out in the open that it is ok to just be friends.

I am not asking questions just to stir up responses by being argumentative. I am just posing the questions that I think about

cautious,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She comes back monday and I am thinking about what I should do or what I should not do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are you still thinking?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe it will all blow over and she will not say anything and it will go back to the way it was. I am trying to read her mind so I dont inadverntaly do anything that would make the move that you spoke of.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If nobody says anything it will remain as it is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like having lunch with her because it is fun. it is as simple as that. I am not trying to get her to bed. The person who said that I would bave a physical affair by the holidays is wrong.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When was the last time you took your W out to lunch and had as much fun?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is a good upstanding woman who is married and has kids and loves her husband. To me that is a big safety net because I am not looking for an affair and she is not and so that makes it less likely to happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W is considered a good upstanding woman who is married and has kids and loves her husband. I even told her that I didn't think her friendship was appropriate because of the things they discuss. We went to church held bible studies at our house. WE (she and I) worked with other ministries. I thought I was meeting all of her EN's, but I wasn't. I didn't understand that I wasn't. My W didn't tell me I wasn't, but she told OM I wasn't. And he told her he would. She asked me for a D and wanted to abandon me our son and marry OM. All because he made her feel alive and special. This woman would kill to protect her son but was willing to throw him away for this OM that she loves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she was real flirty or dressing provactlively or telling me she wanted to go to bed I would run away. But she is not doing that and what is so wrong with having a female friend if it is simply that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When your "friend" is stroking your ego she is most certainly flirting. My W is a very conservative woman in the way she dresses. She still had an A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know there are moral reasons some would offer or others would say what if my wife had a male friend like this. I don't know how to answer but she may have already because no one can be all things to all persons.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't matter about moral reasons others would offer. Or if your W did have a male friend like your female friend. We aren't talking about your W, we're talking about YOU. You obviously have never felt the pain caused by a WS giving something that belongs to you to someone else. What I mean is precious time, feelings that should be directed to her and not to OW. And if you don't want to experience that pain I so strongly suggest that you make your W feel "alive and special" not someother man's W.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If a man and a woman intellectually know they do not want to have an affair and do not want to go to bed isnt it possible that if it is out in the open that it is ok to just be friends.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it is out in the open maybe. To me, out in the open means that both spouses are not only aware that you spend time together and you tell them everything you talk about AND that they are sometimes included (but can you do this without changing the way you two act toward each other?).

You might as well tell your W about this forum cause we're going to see her here if you don't stop. I already feel sorry for her. You're going to hurt her well bad.

S&C

Cautious,

You have way stepped over the lines of it just being a friendship...quit using that term...and minimally call it an emotional attachment...

Just the fact that you are spending so much energy even thinking about her

thinking on a Thursday about seeing her Monday...speaks VOLUMES about emotions...and not just a normal lunch with a friend...answer honestly how much time this week you have spent thinking about her...

I have lots of males that I am friends with...and enjoy their company immensely..and may even look forward to seeing them again....but never do I have to think about what I should or should not do about having lunch with them...

You my friend are thick in the fog of rationalizing an emotional connection with someone of the opposite sex that places your relationship with your wife in danger...

the only ramification to consider is the fact that the more time you spend with her ...the more emotionally attached you will become, and that leads to sharing parts of you with her...and not with your spouse...

And perhaps you are right, and three pages of different posters are all wrong in trying to help you see how hurtful your own actions could be...yep...We are probably all pretty much full of crap....and probably just have never had the experience of meeting someone as wonderful as the person you go to lunch with and call "just friends"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ARK...who sees lots of light houses reaching out to you....but weather report calling for continued fog...with zero zero visibility...

Cautious,
If you really want help then LISTEN. My H's affair started almost exactly as you are saying. He even told me about her. That I had "nothing to worry about". She was just a "business friend." They just talked about "business". She knew my daughter and made friends with her. I knew about most of their meetings, UNTIL it was too late. Soon it will be too late for you. The fact that you are even here asking tells EVERYONE, but you, that there is a problem. If you can't see it then no one can help you.

----“Maybe it will all blow over and she will not say anything and it will go back to the way it was. I am trying to read her mind so I dont inadverntaly do anything that would make the move that you spoke of.”

Geez man, don’t you have any b@lls? When are you going to start acting like a man instead of a jerk? You are waiting to see if it blows over? You are trying to read her mind? It’s your responsibility to act like a man and a husband, to make a decision that protects your marriage. At this point your passive acceptance of this affair is not passive at all. As long as you lament and go along with it, you are actively seeking the affair.

And please spare me about how she is so Christian. And you are so Christian. People hide behind religion all the time to cover up their misdeeds. This is a misdeed that you and she are actively pursuing.

----“I like having lunch with her because it is fun. it is as simple as that. I am not trying to get her to bed.”

Since when is it right for a married person to be seeking ‘fun’ from another person?

I have a question for you.. Why do you want to hurt your wife? Why do you not care one hang that what you are doing is going to destroy her and your marriage? Since the first time you posted here and people gave you their input you have been purposely carrying out this little liason. It is intentional adultery. (Is there any other kind?) I’ve always wondered about what goes through the mind of a WS at this stage of the game.

Riff is right. Cautious. Just go back and read all of your previous posts and the responses over and over until it hits you square in the face that you are already in an emotional affair. I have no doubt that it will go physical soon as I can hear the excitement and anticipation in your words.

I for one will not waste another line on you!!!

Cautious,

I just found your post today and have tried to track the whole story. I found your posts to about 20 days ago. The reason your post caught my eye is that like a few others here, I went THROUGH EXACTLY THE SAME HELL YOU ARE NOW EMBARKING ON. EVERYONE has told you OVER AND OVER - STOP!!!!!! ALL OF IT!!!!!!

My WH started out very similar to you. It's a long,long story, but I'll try and condense. He had a tennis buddy from our church 4-5 years ago. Female, Christian (her dad's a retired minister!), family woman, 'happily' married with children, the whole nine yards. I actually encouraged this relationship at first, as my WH was an introvert, loved tennis, and never had enough buddies to play with. So, approx. 3-4 years ago, due to counselling he'd gone through (due to him being VERY unhappy which I knew about and he and I often talked about, tried to figure out) he decides what he needs is more emotional connection, and particularily with women. So, he and his happily married OW go out for coffee (while waiting for our kids at Sunday School!) and that was the beginning of the end for us. At this point he's been gone almost 10 months, and this very happily married, stable, Christian OW left HER family within 1 week of him leaving me and our two kids.

My point is very clear I'm sure. He also assured me that it was 'just friendship', and 'couldn't two opposite sex adult people be friends?' For THREE YEARS this continued, with me feeling it was ALL WRONG, and he maintaining he knew his boundaries, and would NEVER CROSS them. I kept insisting to him that a truly 'happily married woman - ESPECIALLY a Christian woman' would NEVER allow herself to be in the position of befriending ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND!!! HE (WH) spent the three years trying to make me believe I was emotionally weak (his VERY words), neurotic for thinking what I did, and insanely jealous. And looking back, I realize I WAS weak to allow someone to treat me so disrespectfully for so long. I was a [censored], as you are now being by refusing to give up this friendship.

I know you are probably past the point of being able to give her up, or you would have after all the warnings you've had here. You've had people like me who are living with the aftershocks of your 'innocent lunches' or whatever the hell you want to call it warn you repeatedly to get out, NOW! And still you're toying with the idea. You're a sunk man, my Cautious. May as well be honest about it. You CAN'T give her up can you? At least have the decency to tell your wife about her, so she can mentally prepare. In my case, the OW's husband had no clue and was told a few days before she moved out that she was unhappy.

EVERYTHING I warned my WH about has come to fruition. I warned him she was NOT a happily married woman, I even told him that she'd admitted to me at one point that'd she'd been 'unexpectedly attracted to him' and that it was stupid to get his emotional needs met by another woman, ESPECIALLY as we had issues that needed attention. He poohhaed it all and kept playing mind-games with me. I am a slow learner, but have learnt my lesson well. I'm now left on my own while he and his 'just friend' are honeymooning each weekend away. He has yet to admit that they are more than just friends. Meanwhile his OW is posting IN THIS SITE, rationalizing their behaviour and referring to him as her SWEETHEART and joyfully talking about them forging into their new life together. After they've created a 911 all of their own doing, and have left 4 children broken-hearted, shattered the lives of both families, and betrayed the confidence and trust of inumerable people in their lives. All in the name of 'friendship'.

If you're going to go ahead and create chaos and hell on earth for everyone around, at least have the b...s to call it what it is: another stinking affair! Sorry about the tone of this email - but this topic touches my heart like no other. IT'S NOT TOO LATE IF YOU DO SOMETHING NOW! OR YESTERDAY. Quit your job if you have to; move if you have to. At least decide that you will end your marriage first before violating it with a sleazy affair. Do the right thing.

One more thing Cautious. You CAN do the right thing. It's not too late yet. Prove us all wrong; prove that your actions are better than your words or intentions. JUST DO THE RIGHT THING, and don't buy into this **** of 'she understands/accepts me just the way I am'. You can guess how long that will last.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

A few friendly points, Cautious...

1) If you truly are "just friends" then invite others to lunch with you.

2) If you can't bring yourself to tear away from your cozy 2-person lunch...IT'S WRONG! STOP IT!!!!

3) My fiance didn't go looking for anything, either. You are not immune.

This is Marriage Builders. Keep having private lunches with a female, and you are NOT building your marriage.