We told the kids tonight that WW would be moving out next thursday. They seemed to take it ok, since they have friends who have parents who have seperated. But tonight my 8 yeard old asked me if it was his and his brothers fault that mom was moving out. I told him no and WW told him the same. We both told him we love him very much and that he will always have a mom and a dad. Later as he was going to bed he began throwing his blankets and pillows into the hallway (very uncharacteristic). I tried to talk to him but he won't talk, he just stares at me. WW thinks it is because he is tired. I told her not to just shrug it off. She keeps saying they will be fine. After a while of my son just looking at me and buring himself in the corner of his bed, I walked by our bedroom and told WW I hated her for doing this.
This is a truly a sad night for me. I'm not sure how act anymore.

TORO

Hi Toro,
It won't be any easier for awhile.

It is hard on the children. There is no way to make it better for them. It just takes time.

I wish we could get you to quit with the LB's. I worry about you doing that. If you really want to make it work you need to be nice to her. I mean, she wants to be with someone that is nice and treats her well. If you are that person, she may choose you. ( if you want her) We know it hurts and it is not natural to be nice to someone that hurts you this badly, but it works better than sayng you hate her.
I don't mean to pile it on with all the pain you already have, It's just that we care and want it to work for you. Hope you get feeling better in the morning. At least it's Friday tomorrow !

SS

Hi Toro,
I know this hurts so badly, it seems like it is allways the children that gets hurt. Have u thought maybe about taking the children to get some kind of counseling as well as yourself? Then if u do then maybe u can learn how to cope with what is happening ,and then be able to help your kids more during this time. I know myself prayer works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We all need the Lord sometime or a nother. Just cry out to him and tell him your problems and he will be there for u. Sorry i can't give much more advice as i really don't know what else to say to u to confront u except that i do care as we all in here do. thinking of u and the family, Cathy

Toro,

Seeing and even hearing of your child's reaction cuts right to the core. Don't hide their reactions. Encourage them to speak their mind any way they choose. Direct straight at their mom. Really. Don't minimize her actions in any way shape or form. Otherwise those little ones will try to blame you or themselves.

Don't worry if it sends her to the edge, she put herself there not them. ok?!?!? She needs to see the results of her actions. Send her to that OM - A hole (a = affair not the other A word - LOL!!!)

This is the time where you will learn to draw your boundaries to her. See you let her do stuff to you but when you see it affecting your children (which it probably has for a while anyway) but the more you see it the angier it will make you. So you need to get all of your family, even the 5 year old into a counselor. Let all who are with them know that if your children talk to be their supporters. I let my day care, teacher and school front office (of course I was in fear that the OW would try to take our child from school - she alluded a bit to have me commited so I took all precautions). At the same time, since my WS was acting too weird, I also warned those who watched our child about his actions and NOT to let him take our son during those times. I did not 'assume' the best on him for anything and the more he grumbled about it the more restrictions I imposed.

I am sorry you and your children are going through this. My child was 6 and it was very hard. But you know he couldn't really talk to his dad about it (he said he was too embarressed but I think he meant he was too ashamed). But he did write his dad a heartfelt but short letter. If your children can and need to do something like that , let them.

I talked with my son as often as he wanted. It helped keep our communication open. At one point our child asked if I could please go get him a new dad since his real dad didn't want to be around him. Isn't that sad??!??!

Now H has to make up for that emotional damage and even though he is trying, it is still hard. Kids don't always forget.

take care,
L.

Even if you divorce your WW, you will still have to have contact with her because of your children, so it does you, your WW, and your children no good if you start planting the seeds of hatred against your WW with comments like 'I hate you for doing this'. Besides that love busting comment is ineffective and will only feed her denial of reality and convince her that she was right in starting her A.

I second the comment that you and your children get counseling to deal positively with this troubled period in your lives.

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to apologize to her this morning for saying that. I am in counseling and I will watch my kids for any problems I might see in them. I will take them to counseling if it persists. My oldest has always been the emotional one, so I think it will be toughest on him. I'll give it a little time. To StillSeeking and TooMuchCoffeeMan, you are right, I have to stop the LB's. It has been real hard because I feel like she is using me sometimes. She hasn't started working full time yet, so for now I am helping her get into her place. She wants me to go shopping with her this weekend to help get her things she needs for her place. I am torn between saying forget it, pay for it yourself, but that will be a HUGE LB for her. I don't know. I do still want to be with her. I know that when she moves out I just need to be the best dad I can and give her space and time. OM has cut off comunication with her. So I am hopeful that her being alone will give her time to think about our marriage. I will just need to do the right things and show her I still love her without LB'ing her. I am trying and thank you for all for input. It is very much appreciated.

TORO - All I can say is that all really sux!

And, I don't know about all the LB stuff, but I'll say you have a right to feel hurt...and I for one think you have a right to express that as strongly as you want to. Her actions are very selfish and are hurting your kids.

Your kids are very lucky to have a great dad who is willing to put them first. It's too bad that their mom isn't able to do that right now.

I hope she comes around soon...

I've always know this, but was remeinded again just now ( by reading her post) that Orchid is a lot smarter than I am.

Read her post again ( perhaps twice) and follow her advice. It will really help your kids.

Sometimes we men focus on the wrong things. I think she has hit the most important part of this whole thing. Read it until you understand what she is trying to get across and then follow her advice.

SS

Toro:

It might not hurt 2 try 2 "undo" a bit of that LB by explaining 2 her that you hate what's happening, not her. I think even a foggy brain can understand that.

What a great bunch of folks here 2 help you out with this!!! Even OM!!! (by cutting contact with WW).

This will take time. It's goofy, but people do s2pid stuff like this and live 2 regret it someday. Stopping LBs NOW will bring that day closer. That, and while she's away? Start looking at yourself and try 2 identify the things you may have done or not done that led her 2 think that having an A was her only option. I'm starting 2 do this (but only because I'm more at ease about the whole situation and can CONCENTRATE finally!), and it's a real education for me so far. Kinda fun, 2!

take care,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TORO:
Thanks for all the advice. I am going to apologize to her this morning for saying that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might also do what 2long suggested and tell her that you hate what is happening, not her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am in counseling and I will watch my kids for any problems I might see in them. I will take them to counseling if it persists. My oldest has always been the emotional one, so I think it will be toughest on him. I'll give it a little time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent. You are a good father and your children will need you more than ever during this most difficult time. When I left my xWW with my daughters in tow, I got counseling for all three of us, and thanks to it, my daughters and I have healed. Your purpose in helping your children is also in of itself a very therapeutic endeavor that can speed up your recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To StillSeeking and TooMuchCoffeeMan, you are right, I have to stop the LB's. It has been real hard because I feel like she is using me sometimes.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she is using you, but isn't that the case with all of us? don't we use each other for comfort and support? So you see, being used is not necessarily a bad thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She hasn't started working full time yet, so for now I am helping her get into her place. She wants me to go shopping with her this weekend to help get her things she needs for her place. I am torn between saying forget it, pay for it yourself, but that will be a HUGE LB for her. I don't know. I do still want to be with her. I know that when she moves out I just need to be the best dad I can and give her space and time. OM has cut off comunication with her. So I am hopeful that her being alone will give her time to think about our marriage. I will just need to do the right things and show her I still love her without LB'ing her. I am trying and thank you for all for input. It is very much appreciated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your WW is not a sexual addict, then she is probably like the vast majority of WW's in that it's not the sex that she wants from the OM but his filling her EN's for attention and conversation. Why not become your WW's new OM?

Toro,

Read Redhat's thread on enabling the A. Then step back and see if you can see how some of your actions are lending you to enable the A.

She choose to be out, she should carry the weight of that decision. If you continue to help her it can be seen as if you sanction the move.

If that is not the message you want to send to your chidlren and others, then let her suffer. She needs financial help, tell her she needs to go get it and that you don't have the time nor the energy to keep doing things for her..... tell her it is too painful.

Don't subject yourself and your children to her inability to take care of herself. She is a mother, the interests of her children shoud come before her own. Does it look like she is doing that/?!?

take care,
L.