The Truth About Relationships – by Greg Baer

I guess the first thing that starts coming through as one reads this amazing book is a sense of…I don’t know what to call it…disappointment, loss, a sense that we have been living our lives amid a sea of lies, misconceptions, and erroneous beliefs. In a way it’s depressing; “how did I get to my age and not realize ANY of this stuff?!”
Baer’s clear and simple logic leaves us breathless…it also leaves us…with profound regret. Regret that nobody ever taught us this, that we, in turn, were unable to teach it to our children, and perhaps worst of all, with the empty feeling that humankind will most likely never “discover” these truths en masse. How very sad.

At once sad and hopeful. A small spark of hope, that little flame of idealism we all carry inside of us is re-ignited…rejuvenated. Because apart from imparting all of this base knowledge, these simple, fundamental truths, Baer offers us the possibility, in fact the encouragement, to act on this knowledge, to disseminate it and to pass it on to those close to us and around us, as well as to others through the principle of “groups” where regular people can get together with “Wise Men and Women” and tell each other their “truths”; to teach the principles and further their dissemination. His book “The Wise Man” is precisely about how to organize and run these groups.

And I believe this is necessary. Because Baer challenges many, many strongly-held beliefs. Things that we have to stop and ask ourselves “Is this guy for real? It can’t be! …or can it...?” The “truths” that Baer challenges are… fundamental, basic, essential, elemental. Many of those things we have NEVER stopped to question or ponder…many of the very things that we “take for granted”, things that just…are.
Baer doesn’t take long to challenge our belief systems. By the middle of the second page of his book he hits us with the first one: “The Lie”. See for yourselves:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“…We all tend to blame our partners-spouses, friends, children, even complete strangers-when we get upset, mostly because that’s what we’ve see everyone around us do. All our lives, we’ve heard countless variations on these statements ‘You make me so mad,’ and ‘He (or she) makes me angry’. We’ve heard those claims so many times that we’ve come to completely accept the notion that other people determine how we feel. If someone does something to inconvenience us or fails to do what we want, we immediately believe that they make us feel disappointed or angry.”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
We KNOW that this HAS to be wrong. We know that it is other people who, through their actions or inactions, make us angry, unhappy, or disappointed. Well, don’t they? Read on. Next comes “The Truth”.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“It’s quite understandable that Lisa made Christopher responsible for the unhappiness she felt in their marriage. He was certainly the closest available person to blame. But that still doesn’t mean he caused her feelings. The truth is Lisa was unhappy before she got married. Christopher didn’t do anything to make Lisa unhappy. He didn’t beat her, or yell at her, or abuse her in any way. Christopher simply failed to provide what Lisa needed to make her happy, and when he failed, she blamed him for both the disappointment of their marriage and for the unhappiness she felt long before they met.”
“That’s what happens in most relationships. When our partners fail to make us happy, we blame them for all the unhappiness in our lives, including unhappiness we carried with us for the many years before we even knew them. We make our partners scapegoats for everything we don’t like. How terribly unfair that is, and what an awful effect that has on any relationship.”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
What? What IS he talking about?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“…When we’re unhappy in a relationship, our misery is not the fault of our partner. We’re unhappy because we’re starving. We’re missing the one ingredient most essential to genuine happiness, and it was missing long before we met our partner.”</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So…are you going to tell us what it is?....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“What We All Really Need”
“What we all need most-the one thing which creates happiness and fulfilling relationships-is Real Love, or unconditional love. It really is that simple. When we learn what Real Love is and when we find it, our unhappiness disappears just as surely as hunger vanishes in the presence of food. Loving relationships then become natural and effortless…”

“When we’re unhappy in a relationship, all the anger and blaming that we commonly exchange with our partners are completely wasteful and destructive. And it’s foolish to insist that our partner promised to make us happy-as in a marriage vow. Our demands don’t magically make them capable of doing anything.”</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aha! Now THAT makes sense! But what about this “Real Love”? What is that? How does that fit in?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“Real Love is caring about the happiness of another person without any thought for what we might get for ourselves. Real Love is unaffected by the mistakes and flaws of the people we love. When they give us nothing in return-including gratitude-or even when they’re thoughtless and inconsiderate, we’re not disappointed, hurt, or angry, because our concern is for their happiness. Real Love is unconditional.”

“It’s real love when someone cares about our happiness without any concern whatever for themselves. It’s Real Love when people are not disappointed or angry when we make our foolish mistakes, even when we inconvenience them personally. Sadly very few of us have ever seen love like that.”</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No kidding!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“…most of us are emotionally sick and dying from a deficiency we have not yet identified. We try to fill our sense of emptiness with money, power, food, approval, sex, and entertainment, but no matter how much of those things we acquire, we remain empty, alone, afraid, and angry. What we need is Real Love. Without it we can only be miserable. With it, our happiness is absolutely guaranteed.”
“When I use the word “happiness,” I don’t mean the fleeting pleasure we get from money, sex, praise, and worldly success. Nor do I mean the brief feeling of relief we experience during the temporary absence of conflict or disaster. Real happiness is not the feeling we get from being entertained or making people do what we want. Genuine happiness is a profound and lasting sense of peace and fulfillment that deeply satisfies and enlarges the soul. It doesn’t go away when circumstances get difficult. It survives and even grows through hardship and struggle. True happiness is our entire reason to live.”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
<strong>“With Real Love, nothing else matters; without it, nothing else is enough.”</strong>

Most of us can identify with this feeling. We have all felt “something” missing, something not quite right. Something that we can’t quite put our finger on. A search going on in our lives, but a search for what exactly, we’re not sure. Could it be this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>“…when someone is genuinely concerned about our happiness, we feel a strong connection to them. We feel included in their life, and in that instant, we are no longer alone. Each moment of unconditional acceptance creates a living thread to the person who accepts us. Those threads weave a powerful bond that fills us with a genuine and lasting happiness. Nothing but Real Love can do that. In addition, when one person loves us, we feel a connection to everyone else. We feel included in the family of mankind, of which that one person is a part.”</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now this rings true! I think we’ve all felt this way for short “moments”. When we were dating the “perfect” girl, with the perfect group, that perfect summer, when we had the perfect plans, the perfect activities…the sense that the world belongs to us, that happiness is a given. That we are part of something bigger and better…that we’ve made it. I wrote a post once that reminds me of this…it went like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">anyone remember what being loved feels like?
searching for hope1
Junior Member
Member # 21006
posted July 12, 2002 05:22 PM

It's been a very long time since I posted. Things had been pretty good for the past year but deteriorated in the last 2 short weeks.
I never felt as if H (WS) fell back in love with me or loves me as much as he did.
It's a very sad and lonely feeling not to be loved.
I'm sure it makes me LB all over because I don't feel happy. It's a vicious cycle, he's not happy because I don't make him happy, I can't be happy if he doesn't really love me. The one thing that's changed in our relationship is cruelty - I think once he learned how to be cruel towards me, he never quite let go of that.
Anyway getting back to my post - what does being loved feel like? I can't remember anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My reply was :

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spacecase
Member
Member # 18091
posted July 12, 2002 06:32 PM
I remember! Vaguely, but I DO remember!

If feels like you are the most important person in the world the moment he/she walks in the room.

It feels like nobody else matters. Beyond basic courtesy, when you speak that is all he/she hears, and your eyes are all he/she sees.

It feels like a sudden hug and he/she taking your hand the moment other men/women enter the restaurant...marking his/her territory, his/her woman/man.

It feels like you don't need to speak to be understood. That glance, that look in his/her eyes, tells you he/she understood.

It feels like all your worries, stress, and deadlines vanish when you walk in the house, and you see his/her face light up, and he/she comes to hug and kiss you.

It feels like your dreams and your hopes are all the more powerful because they are being held up and pushed by both of you at once.

My most sincere wish to everyone on this forum for a quick return to feeling these things again...thank you SFH1, for reminding us why it is we are here working as hard as we are working...thank you from the bottom of my heart! I actually cried while writing this...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And some of the feedback people gave went like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wintergal
Member
Member # 17433
Dear Spacecase
I cried as I read your reply...everything you said is so true....I wish for everyone here as well, that the love and happiness they've lost is restored completely.
Thank you

Feeling So Alone
Member
Member # 15460
Spacecase
I cried when I read your post. Those are the feelings that I had with my H and neveer will have again. You hit the nail on the head. I want those things back and I just don't know if I will ever find them with someone else.
Max

Tatchina
Member
Member # 19297
Spacecase, that is so true…I can't wait to feel that again!!! I too have forgotten how it feels to really have your spouse to love you..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think we’ve all somehow “felt” it, at some point in our lives, but what “it” is and how to get “it” again…we still don’t know. But if there’s one definition of “it” that clicks for me, it is the one Greg Baer makes of “Real Love”…connected, whole, in sympathy with the rhythm of the world, never alone, calm and satisfied, worry-free. If there’s one way to describe it that I can think of, it is the feeling of security and connection you feel when you are at a party, and your “partner” is on the other side of the room, you’re both talking or doing something, and in a moment your eyes meet, and without any gesture or signal, you both know that you are one. That no matter what is between you, or who you are with, or what you are doing…you are connected. If anything should happen, the two of you would instinctively search each other out, protect and care for each other. If one of you should need you, it would not matter who you were with or what you were doing, what your “partner” needed always came first.

I believe that maybe Baer has found the way to “create” this feeling, this connection, this…unique and wonderful feeling. When we’ve had it before, for fleeting moments, it came from within, naturally. But we did not know what it was or how it happened, or where it came from. Much less how to re-create it or keep it alive…maybe now we have found how.

I was thinking, what if I said something like this to my W:
“Sweetie, what if I can show you some of what you’ve been looking for all your life? Would you take a look at it and maybe learn about it with me?”

<small>[ September 27, 2002, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

I often wonder, will I be able to love again after a broken heart.

Thanks space

I think that learning with your wife is a wonderful idea...IF she were ready to learn. Otherwise...you'd just be back to educating her. Until she starts seeking out answers herself and showing some interest in something different in her life, you can't teach her.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, so that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have life everlasting" - John 3:16

gOOD POST- but I agree, don't educate... I tried that yesterday.. KABOOM.. it was a big explosion of anger from ws. They do not want to hear that Cra_

Anyway, have a better day and if you get a chance... show her that love.. don't tell her or educate.

Hugs, HOney

Spacecase, oh great, I'll be at the bookstore looking for that book...not another one!!

that books sounds awesome, and I can definitely relate myself and WH to it.

for example, both of us are children of divorce, both of our fathers had an affair, and our mothers divorced them.

Neither one of us grew up in an environment to "see" unconditional love. I did not know how to have a marriage. We had a couple of pre-marital counseling sessions before we got married but that doesn't help until you are experiencing it.

I feel that I have come to that point, that point of unconditional love. I know that the Harleys may disagree with some points of that, saying that your happiness does depend on the actions of others, love being conditional. However, I do believe it is our responsibility to be a owner of our own actions towards the spouse. I truly believe that you are treated by someone the way you treat them.

I noticed very early in the separation that WH was always angry and lashed out at me. I took it, said sorry you feel that way (remember this is his feelings, not mine), and said I will talk to you later.
I think he finally got to the point that he realized that yelling and screaming did not good, he expected a reaction out of me, and did not get it. He wanted to use the angry reaction out of me to "justify" his own actions.

I think this book, (at least by what you wrote), closely resembles the "Boundaries" concepts by Cloud & Townsend. you cannot fully depend on anothers for your own happiness. Granted, their actions will affect your feelings. But it is up to you to allow them to cross that boundary.

With that said, I am going to find my Plan A from the Bible thread and bump it up for the newbies, it is all about unconditional love.

Also, I beleive that actions can speak louder than words. Learned that the hard way. I hope you are not planning on "educating" your spouse on this, she may see this as controlling behavior.

Can you give us an update on your Plan B and how she is responding?

Space -- As we say around my office, "Nails post, dude" which apparently means you nailed it right on.

But, one thought, just to be ornery today: If you're following this book's advice and theory, why worry if your WS reads it or not? Read it for yourself, apply it and be a happy camper.

Seems to me, if all the campers are happy except one, that one will eventually start creeping closer to the fire circle to see what all the commotion is about, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by going_crazy:
<strong>Spacecase, oh great, I'll be at the bookstore looking for that book...not another one!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hard to find it at bookstores; it comes from a small publishing house. I suggest Amazon or Half.com.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
that books sounds awesome, and I can definitely relate myself and WH to it.

for example, both of us are children of divorce, both of our fathers had an affair, and our mothers divorced them.

Neither one of us grew up in an environment to "see" unconditional love. I did not know how to have a marriage. We had a couple of pre-marital counseling sessions before we got married but that doesn't help until you are experiencing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We can ALL relate. To a greater or lesser degree, nobody ever taught us to love unconditionally. We were always taught to love conditionally. If you're good, I love you, if you do this for me, I'll give you candy, since you were bad, you're punished....and so on.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I feel that I have come to that point, that point of unconditional love. I know that the Harleys may disagree with some points of that, saying that your happiness does depend on the actions of others, love being conditional. However, I do believe it is our responsibility to be a owner of our own actions towards the spouse. I truly believe that you are treated by someone the way you treat them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I think the Harleys DO NOT disagree. They just present it differently. There is a need for some degree of "romantic" (conditional) love in our lives, and the Harleys focus on that for the most part. BUT, they also espouse "Forgiveness" and "Acceptance" and many other "Unconditional Love" elements. Forgiveness, why? How can we forgive the unforgivable? they lied, cheated, destroyed...there is NO WAY they can make that up to us and our children, no matter what they do. We can't put conditiona on that. So to "forgive" has to be unconditional. And acceptance; acceptance that what happened was not on purpose, is something we have to live with, and in order to do that we have to do it unconditionally...otherwise we'd never accept; it's too awful. What could the WS do to help us accept? Probably nothing.
And notice that the Harley workbook that goes along with HNHN is called "5 steps to ROMANTIC love" not to "Unconditional" love. Why, because they deal there with the conditional, romantic love. They have to; nobody is a saint to be able to love unconditionally all the time, and learning to love unconditionally does not happen overnight. But at least under the Harley guidelines we have a process that is reciprocal, and includes POJA, which makes it more even, less conditional...because we're understanding each other and reciprocating.
Natuarally, there are many conditional elements. Trust, for instance is one where I'm still having trouble. According to Baer, we should also trust unconditionally. But I, for one, cannot. Or at least not yet. Maybe it's because I went through a year of endless DDays, too many breached of trust. Maybe others, where the WS ended the A upon discovery, and made an immediate effort to recover, can trust unconditionally. I can't. Not yet.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think this book, (at least by what you wrote), closely resembles the "Boundaries" concepts by Cloud & Townsend. you cannot fully depend on anothers for your own happiness. Granted, their actions will affect your feelings. But it is up to you to allow them to cross that boundary.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely agree. ONLY we can be responsible for our own happiness. If we expect to be made happy by the actions of others, we will NEVER be happy.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Also, I beleive that actions can speak louder than words. Learned that the hard way. I hope you are not planning on "educating" your spouse on this, she may see this as controlling behavior.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I'm not going to "educate" her...I will ask if she wants to learn, and IF she does, I will help her. Otherwise, I will continue to do it for me. As I've been doing up to now. I am long past trying to get her to "do" something.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Can you give us an update on your Plan B and how she is responding? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I posted about this in another thread, the "Do WSs Ever get it". But quickly, I'll say I haven't done a perfect Plan B, and on the contrary, I've used every opportunity to show my W as much love and acceptance as I can. But I believe that in my circumstances, with our personalities, that is the best for US. In the end, each one must judge for himself what will work or not work in their
marriage and under their circumstances.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chorus:
<strong>Space -- As we say around my office, "Nails post, dude" which apparently means you nailed it right on.

But, one thought, just to be ornery today: If you're following this book's advice and theory, why worry if your WS reads it or not? Read it for yourself, apply it and be a happy camper.

Seems to me, if all the campers are happy except one, that one will eventually start creeping closer to the fire circle to see what all the commotion is about, right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not worried about her reading it or not. I'd LIKE to share it with her if she'd like to...if she believes she wants to learn something new, a different way of doing things. But I'm not worried. I am reading it and learning for myself...and I'm a happier camper every day!

And that is why I am showing her as much unconditional love as I can...so she will maybe think about it, see something good, and become interested. I haven't even mentioned any of this to her!

SC,

What you've written mirrors quite a bit of the things that I have been contemplating over in the last year or so. I have read many relationship books and the messages all get back to this topic of unconditional love.

The last three years of HE!! in my life were spent trying to ansewer the questions that you posted. I was seeking something that was missing, but didn't quite have an idea of what it was. All I knew was that I was miserable in my relationship, and no matter what I tried or did, nothing improved. Everything I did I was criticized for, and I was so emotionally unstable that I bought all of it. This started the downward spiral because reaching out wasn't working. I felt that I was being punished for exisiting so I closed off to try and run from reality.

Once I reached complete emptiness inside, everything that mattered to me was sent by the wayside. Although I cared very deeply for my family, I buried those feelings because I felt that I didn't deserve to be with them. At that time I didn't even think I deserved to be alive. The FOG was one way to deny the pain that you are in. It allows you to ESCAPE.

This is when the EA started. I believed that the attention that I was recieving from OP was a lifesaver. Suddenly I saw brightness where there was none, and I had a sense of being full. I regained that something that was missing and all I cared about was being whole. I believed at the time that this was the solution to the thing I was searching for and couldn't put my finger on.
As we all know, and have learned through our experiences, pain, and reading, this is only a temporary "fix". The drug induced Euphoria that junkies cling to for their survival.

My past experiences have been to leave the old relationship and follow through with the new one without looking back. I had done this once before when I was 22 and never wavered from the path that I chose. This time however, something changed for me. I started to look inward for some answers. I read some books and started to realize that there was a lesson to be learned. The EA turned into a PA when I moved out of the house, but I continued to work on me because I lived alone and had quite a bit of pain to work through.

After reading "Love and Awakening: Discovering the Sacred Path of Intimate Relationship" by Jon Welwood, I started to learn about this topic. It was a small turning point in my attitude towards myself, the people in my life, and the relationship that I gave up hope on.

What I came to understand was that my relationship went down the tubes because it really was supposed to. This sounds really strange, but let me elaborate and be patient with me. It's a difficult concept to explain and takes a lot of soul searching to accept.

Basically, when you meet someone and fall in love, it is more of an infatuation than anything else. During this process, the couple is openly accepting of everything because they have the feeling of being completed in the other person's presence.

The couple then goes through the process of committing, building a life, and you look towards your partner to fulfill your needs (EN's if you will). This situation lasts for as long as the person meets the perceived standards that you hold them to. As long as your partner acts a certain way, things are fine. Eventually they will dissapoint you because they can not meet the expectation that you have set-up for them to meet. Also you get to a place where you are no longer freely acceptin them as you did in the first stages of the relationship. They are who they are, and unfortunately are holding you up to their own standards that you can not meet, as well.

Ultimately when the breakdown happens, it is painful because both parties have realized that they no longer have the "special" thing that made them feel complete, only they aren't aware that this is what is the root of the problem. The conflict and anger are the inner child's way of dealing with the loss, and most people don't look beyond the surface emotion that they are feeling. This is what the lie is all based on. It gets deeper than this but I will not give you my views now because I've already babbled too much. If you'd like more, I'm always willing to share. I love talking about this stuff to other's that are seeking answers. It helps me learn more.

To get on with it.....
Once you reach that place where you are feeling unfufilled, you blame the other person because it's the only thing you know how to do. You can only use the tools that you have and it takes extreme courage to seek out other answers. What you don't realize is that you are not truly LOVING anyone. The fact is, the whole realtionship as I described is a very selfish process that ends tragically for over 1/2 of the married couples. When I say selfish I am referring to the fact that the "lovers" are demanding something from their partners that can never be delivered. When this expectation fails to be met, the punishment starts. That is what is selfish about it.

So now you're thinking: Get on with it already!

Well what I have come to understand is that you have to really learn how to love yourself unconditionally. Once this happens, you're whole perspective and life change. This sounds really simplistic and most of you are probably thinking, WOW that was a dumb and obvious concept, but again this is a surface level statement. I will get further into this at another time if you all want me to share it with you.

Thanks for the post, it was a good one.

kily -

By all means - keep it coming! I love where this thread is going! Keep it up!

Has

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OOOPS! Double post!

<small>[ September 27, 2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Hasatude ]</small>

$h!t howdy, SC!!!

Great thread! I have the book, but haven't read it yet! I'm going 2 start this evening (until my W gets home that is, then I'm going 2 practice it, instead!).

regards,

Beautiful post SC.

Brilliant, in fact.

I posted about the different levels of love in the Recovery forum today. Just wanted to include a link since these two threads are directly related.

My Name Change and the different levels of Love

The most amazing thing about unconditional love is that it's at the fingertips of anyone who wants it. All we have to do is tell the truth about 'ourselves and our feelings'. As we remove the mask that we hide behind, we reveal the true, 'real' self that we are. That allows us to feel the love people offer us.

If I choose not to tell you about the 'real' me, you may choose to love me anyway. But I won't be able to feel that love because I will know that it is my 'facade' you love. It is as often on a subconscious level as not, but deep down we believe that "If you knew the real me, you wouldn't love me as much."

So we need to seek out people that we can share our truths with that will be 'wise' enough to hear them and still love us exactly as we are.

Sometimes that's not our S's because the law of physics says we can't give what we don't have. If our S's don't feel unconditionally loved then they can't possibly offer it to us. So we need to go to other sources to get real love ourselves first.

Then, as you correctly stated, we can take that unconditional love back and share it with our S's. Not by telling them about it but just by offering it to them.

Thank you for this amazing thread,
I_U (previously E_C)

Similar book, same great subject:

"BONDS THAT MAKE US FREE"
can't remember the author, lent the book to my brother. It's great though. All about unconditional love.
Sharon

Spacecase, have you finished the book yet? How highly do you recommend this book?

Many different authors have written good books about this, and I'm sure many of them are similar.
The Greg Baer book I highly recommend because it's practical, and an easy, fast read.
Some of the others get into the "spiritual" stuff a lot more, which is fine for a deeper understanding, but as a starting point; definitely Baer.
The book is out of print, but still available at Amazon (link below). He has a new revised edition of it coming out in January of next year.

The Truth About Relationships, Second Edition - Greg Baer

There's a FANTASTIC post over on the "Recovery" board about the different types of love, and the different levels of Unconditional Love, by ILove_ULove (Formerly Extremely_Confused).

Here's the link:

My Name Change and the different Levels of Love

They should make everybody take a little class during high school with guidelines such as this.

It took me a lot of study and observation to figure all of this. I knew all of these things when I married. I thought that would make my marriage successful... what I forgot to include in the equation was the ignorance of my husband.

Sometimes knowledge hurts, it makes me feel like I may be crazy because it looks like I am the only person that can really see all of these "misteries" clear and simple as 1+1=2.

I am glad there is a book that can lend a flashlight so I stop feeling everything is hopeless because nobody can find a real guide.

(Did I make sense?)

This is quite true. One of the authors of a book about Forgiveness and the path to Unconditional Love, put it this way:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Traditionally it was thought that teaching the three "Rs" of Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rythmetic was enough preparation for life. Now the skills of Right Choice Making (values clarification) and Right Human Relationships are increasingly being recognized as essential. Like the 3 "R's" the 4th and 5th "R's" don't happen by accident. They need to be taught, and the forgiveness process is a natural part of this curriculum.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">