Thank you everyone -- I very much appreciate the kind thoughts and words of wisdom.

Today was a mixed bag. WH left messages on my work phone and cell that he hopes we can talk in the next few days. I need to go back and read Orchid's posts to Going Crazy about setting the pace, place, and counter-babble. I am not ready to talk to to him today or tomorrow. He will just have to wait.

OW did not come to the meeting. And here is the interesting part. Another co-worker of OW attended the meeting and asked to have coffee with me afterward. He said that he had laid it on the line yesterday (wihtout my prompting) with both WH and OW and told them that they were embarassing the organization/raising questions about their organization's credibility and this nonsense had to stop. He told me that more people outside of their organization knew about the situation and were appalled. He told WH that he had heard from some of their funders and advisory council members (big wigs in the community) that they had heard this was going on and didn't think much of it.

My boss also told me that he was pretty sure the president of their organization would find out soon and that it would not be unlikely that one of them would get asked to resign.

I don't know whether this is bad or good. I just don't want to be a part of exposing the A in this way. It will devastate my WH. In the long run, it's probably the best outcome, but maybe not for my M.

I am going to call WH tonight and let him know that I got his phone messages, that I am incredibly hurt, and that I am not ready to talk and would let him know when I felt more comfortable having a conversation.

<small>[ October 02, 2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know whether this is bad or good. I just don't want to be a part of exposing the A in this way. It will devastate my WH. In the long run, it's probably the best outcome, but maybe not for my M.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my opinion, this would be a good thing, why??
You are not the one exposing the affair, they did that theirselves. Yes, it may devastate your WH, but this may be the true wake up call he needs, he needs to be brought down, to feel what he doing.
I see it as positive, if they are asked to resign, how likely would it be that they would then go and work for the same company? Probably not likely.

I hope your phone call went well tonight. Let me know on what his reaction is on you not being ready to talk.

I called WH's cell phone at 8:30 p.m. last night (it's the only phone he has). He didn't answer so I left the following message: "I got your messages. I am incredibly hurt and just don't think I am ready to talk. I need to figure out a plan/what I want to do with my life before I am ready to talk with you. With everything I have been through the past nine months, I hope you can understand and respect my need to wait until I am ready. Thanks."

In the middle of all of this, I had my phone number changed this morning. I have been receiving hang up calls for the past two weeks and I just thought I don't need this in my life too. WH will probably flip out if he does try to call and it says the phone number has been disconnected, but he can leave a message on my work or cell phone numbers if he needs to reach me that badly.

I am also thinking about telling his brother and sister-in-law what is going on -- I've kept this stupid secret of his for nine months and it's ridiculous.

Feeling a bit stronger today; although I did have a bad nightmare last night that he and OW came over and took my kittycat while I was at work. Woke up crying.

that is an awful nightmare!!

did he respond back today??

unsureheart- wow! I go away for only a couple days and... wow!

Well, looks like it is time to send in the dog poop! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Forget Plan A or Plan B it is time for Plan Poop! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If you pay extra, can they light the paper bag full of poop on fire, ring the doorbell, and run away?

Seriously though, I have to say I was glad to see you being humorous in the face of all the crap you are facing.

2 things two consider:

1. Since the A is back on, the A may have been on for some time (only you don't know when.) So, that means from your H's point of view, he will be treating you the same/thinking of you the same as he has for some time (hence the call that seemed like nothing happened). You see things differently now that you know A is back. He does not because things aren't different for him. (Although your recent messages may change that a bit.)

2. Steve Harley told me to stay in Plan A for as long as possible. What "as long as possible" means is to stay in Plan A until I feel like I will (or start to) LB and mess up all the hard work I had been doing in Plan A. (I've read somewhere that Plan A is laying a foundation for recovery for when WS returns after A dies a natural death.)
It is a terrible thing that your H and OW are continuing to do. It hurts you. I feel for you. (I can't imagine working with my WW and OM. I'd get violent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Keep in mind though, that if you want your M, and this new information is too much for you to stick with Plan A without LBing, you must go to Plan B to:
-preserve the little love you have left
-remain a "safe" place for H to return when A dies a natural death

I don't know if you should Plan A still or go to Plan B. I do know that if you want your M still, you should not LB and ruin all these long hard months of good Plan A that you have done.

I know you've spoken with Jennifer. Have you considered talking with Steve?

Perhaps Plan B is in order? I know it is risky (many of us probably don't go to it because we fear the risk) but in some cases I could see that it is necessary.

It works sometimes too (from what I've read.) Check out:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020303;p=1

well my thoughts are with you. I wish you the best whatever happens.

Well, here is WH's response to me by email after I left him that message: "I understand you are angry and hurt and that you do not want, or can't, talk to me. I hope, however, that I can explain this to you at some point in the future to help both of us understand and come to terms with all this. I started a letter to you last night, but thought better of it, since I do not think you want to hear from me right now. If I'm wrong, and you would like any communication from me, please let me know. It doesn't have to be in person or by telephone. All I'm suggesting is a letter by e-mail. I know you are hurt and you probably hate me. I'm in a very black place. I think it's really important to communicate with one another right now, somehow, someway, and I am ready whenever you are."

I sent him a quick email back telling him "I do not know that I am ready to discuss this in person or by phone. I do want to let you know that I do not hate you. I have nothing but love for you and probably will the rest of my life. Communicating at some point makes sense, but I need to be in a different frame of mind." I also attached a digital photo of my friend and I all bundled up standing in front of a mountain this past weekend. Hey -- if any of you want to see it, send me your email address and I'll send it along. It's not the best photo of me (you can barely see me with the hat, coat, etc on, but the scenery is beautiful.

I really think I need to wait a few days. I do not want to LB. I am guessing that he will show up Sunday morning at the 5K race I am running this weekend and stand in the background.

it sounds like he was trying to reach out a little bit, and I completely understand why you would not meet with him. This could be good that he can reflect a little about what he has done to you also.

I have learned that if you think you may LB, do nothing at all, that includes not meeting with them to "talk", if you are still in an angry state of mind.

that would be very interesting if he shows up!

unsureheart-

I think in many ways, you know yourself better than anyone. You know how you react emotionally. You are pissed off right now. That is (of course) totally understandable and normal.

You probably should take your own advice and wait until you cool off a bit before you talk to your H. That way you won't LB. There is no rush to talk to him is there?

I agree He does seem to be reaching out to you. He understands you need time. So give yourself some time.

p.s. thanks for the reply over on the plan a/b board. I've thought about moving it over to GQII but then again it'd probably get buried since I don't post that often.

p.p.s I'm interested in the bundled up nature scene photo. you can send it to me if you like at aanast2@yahoo.com

Hello all -- Where to start?

First, my 5K run on Sunday went very well. That was the high point of my weekend.

On Sunday, WH calls and leaves me several messages saying he really needs to talk. I figure that I am calm enough and it's been a week since d-day#2 and I'm not feeling panicked, so I agree that he can come over.

He comes over and lets me know right away that he is not going to visit his sister this weekend. She called him that morning to find out when he was coming and she asked him about his A/what was going on. He told her the truth (which I told him was good) and she let him have it and was very angry with him.

That led us into the conversation I dreaded. I did not LB, but I did cry and cry really hard. I had to get up and leave the room a few times. Basically, WH told me:

1. I love you but am not in love with you. Not attracted to you anymore even though you are a beautiful woman.

2. I cannot stop my attraction for OW.

3. I am afraid that if I recommit and things don't work out that I will have wasted more years on an unfulfilling relationship.

4. You are my best friend. I cannot imagine not having you in my life.

5. I need to move forward and explore why I'm so unhappy. I realize now it's not you that made me unhappy, but there were many times when being with you made me feel alone because I couldn't express my feelings.

6. I love you but I am afraid of you.

7. You have made many positive changes. I cannot change.

8. I am so sorry that I have been dishonest. OW also got mad at me for this.

While the conversation lasted several hours, those were the main points.

I told him first that I appreciated his honesty. I told him that from everything I had learned, his continued contact with OW through work was likely a big part of his difficultly with being willing to try and work on our relationship.

I told him that I was incredibly hurt and that I did not see how to move forward while he was in continued contact with OW.

Mostly I cried and cried hard.

Thankfully, I spoke to the Harleys this morning on their radio show. They suggested that I go to plan B soon because WH has acknowledged my positive changes and has for some time, but that continued contact with OW makes all of my efforts at this point wasted and I will be losing love very quickly.

Further, they say I am to expose the A to family and employers when I go to plan B.

So, I am working on my plan B letter. I have contacted my therapist about meeting and possibly taking anti-depressants. I will copy my letter to OW, family and employer. That is their plan for me.

In the interim, WH has asked to see me again tonight. I believe I am going to tell him that I am exhausted from no sleep last night and, in hindsight, was not really prepared for that conversation last night. If he would like, he is welcome to come for an evening run with me, but that I can't engage in a relationship discussion the way I am feeling right now.

So sad. Cannot stop crying. I thought I was going to break down blubbering on the radio program (thankfully did not).

I'll keep you all posted.

Dear USH, I'm sorry for your pain after this conversation. It seems so unfair that the BS has to take BS from WS. What he said would have really hurt whether it is the truth or not. I guess to him right now it is the truth, be it fog induced.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am afraid that if I recommit and things don't work out that I will have wasted more years on an unfulfilling relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WH has similar worries - SH suggested to me that I tell him that Harley's have a plan to fall in love and stay in love. You know, as in the book by that title. It hasn't made much difference at this stage, but SH says I need to keep chipping away at it. How long I can chip for remains to be seen. I'm nearly all chipped out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You have made many positive changes. I cannot change.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cannot or will not or maybe he just dosen't know how to go about it-can't see a way back from here or how you will forgive him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him first that I appreciated his honesty. I told him that from everything I had learned, his continued contact with OW through work was likely a big part of his difficultly with being willing to try and work on our relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's exactly it. Why can't they see that? I think you did well to stay so controlled during all this. You are truly an amazing woman.

SH

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</small>

USH,

you know what I here when your WH said those things to you??

blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah!!!!!!!!!!

Same old, same old, fogginess!!

My WH says almost the same exact things.

BTW, what are times for the Harley show and numbers to call in? Who does the show??

Seahorse and GC -- Oh, I know that the two of you have heard these same lines before. It's uncanny. Some days I just feel like screaming. I told my WH the other day that I just couldn't understand how one day they could just wake up in the morning and have fallen out of love. I know it takes some time for this to happen, but I look back on when I now know the A started and it's just bizarre. Right at that same time I was leaving my old job that I had worked very very hard at and been through a lot of turmoil/fixing problems etc. At the party in my honor, my WH actually had tears come to his eyes when he was telling the crowd how proud his was of me and how much he loved me. That was during the first month of the A. Now, he says he's not in love with me.

I know the two of you have experienced the exact same things. Even after so many months of this none of it makes sense. I guess it's not supposed to.

GC -- On the radio show. I know that it is held on Monday's at 1:00 central time. It is the Joyce Harley radio show and Bill Harley (the author/the grand doo da of all this/father or Steve and Jennifer) and Steve H. are on the show usually. You call in and they ask you what your question is -- I had to wait about 15 minutes on hold/but listening to the show on the phone. Joyce then got on privately and asked me a few questions/more specifics about the situation while Bill listened during a break. Then you go on and Joyce describes your situation/question and Bill responds and asks you more questions. It is pretty cool. The number to call (and I would do it early in the show to make sure they take your call -- it's an hour long program) is 1-888-332-5169.

You can also just listen to it by clicking on the link at marriagebuilders for "Radio" at the top of the screen and it will direct you to Joyce's show -- you can listen to it on your computer if you have speakers. Fortunately for me it's during lunch time and so I put in on while I'm eating my lunch at my desk.

More update. WH called last night right when I got home from work and said he needed to see me. I told him there was no way I could have another relationship talk because I was just plain exhausted. He said no, he just wanted to have dinner and that he appreciate my being willing and able to talk to him the night before. We met halfway between our house and where he works and had a quick dinner and talked about work, friends, his parents, etc. like a normal couple.

He then asked if he could come to the house and use my computer and email as he had to get a contract out. I said ok, but was thinking that is extremely odd because it would be just as quick for him to go back to his office. He came and used the computer, fixed the heater controls (it had been stuck on a low temperature and I was pretty cold at night), made some tea and worked. I did dishes, changed the sheets, etc. Had a bath and got ready for bed. I put on a new nightgown. Nothing too sexy but certainly more appealing than my usual flannel and socks (due to the cold nights/heater problem). I could tell WH noticed it was new and figure flattering, but he didn't say anything.

He left at about 10:00 when I was going to sleep.

A pleasant but weird evening. Since I'm not in plan B yet, haven't written the letter, I felt like I should keep trying plan A.

Also, one of his employees called yesterday. They had sent a brief, anonymous letter to his boss stating that the A was going on and was causing management issues and other problems. We'll see if anything comes from that.

When my WS told me about his affair with a co-worker (a woman that has always been cold and nasty towards me). I called his Sgts and told them what was going on between an officer and a dispatcher. I was not sure what they could do, but WH told me "everyone" knew about the A so I figured it could not hurt. He was angry, however did not say much about it. Also, a month later he told me he had to go to his mothers house, well, I called his mother's house later and he was not there. Well, I figured another lie deserved more truth, so I informed his mother of everything her son was doing. He was SO angry and asked me why I told her, I simly said that he should not have told me he was somewhere he was not. Took about 2 days for him to cool off, but I think they realize that they are wrong, and just get angry when people find out about the dirty deeds they do in secret.

When my WS told me about his affair with a co-worker (a woman that has always been cold and nasty towards me). I called his Sgts and told them what was going on between an officer and a dispatcher. I was not sure what they could do, but WH told me "everyone" knew about the A so I figured it could not hurt. He was angry, however did not say much about it. Also, a month later he told me he had to go to his mothers house, well, I called his mother's house later and he was not there. Well, I figured another lie deserved more truth, so I informed his mother of everything her son was doing. He was SO angry and asked me why I told her, I simly said that he should not have told me he was somewhere he was not. Took about 2 days for him to cool off, but I think they realize that they are wrong, and just get angry when people find out about the dirty deeds they do in secret.

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: copswifebetrayed ]</small>

I know a woman who confronted her H about the possibility of an A, he admitted to it and told her that he was having an A with a single woman who was his employee, and she filed for DV. She did call his employer, and he did get fired. First, though, she saw a lawyer and made sure that he was forced to pay COBRA so that she kept health insurance.

All I can say is that I protected my H from the consequences of his actions (enabler). Bad mistake. It led not only to an A but also to a broken arm, given to me 12 days after surgery which kept me in the hospital 7 days. If you call the employer, he may get fired. That is not the worst thing that could happen, by any means. It may well shake him up and it could separate OW and WH from each other at least during work.

I vote for you to call the employer. He needs to be accountable.

thanks for the info on the Harley program.

I find that very interesting about last night!! Keep us posted on how is job situation is going!!

How are you doing now USH? Did you read mthrhubbard's post about consequences? I guess your H and OW are now finding out about this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Copswifebetrayed, weary and wary, GC and Seahorse -- Well, the consequences are coming. I moved to plan B.

I recognized last night that I really could not handle this continued back and forth. I did a really solid plan A, WH recognized my changes, and continues to say he is confused. He relies on me heavily to talk several times a day about his work issues, how he's feeling, etc, but still no commitment.

I met with my therapist yesterday and he strongly recommended (as did the Harleys) shifting to plan B and initiating no contact.

I was out last night for my every other month girls dinner and got home and the phone was ringing. It was WH telling me (yet again) that he was going to take some substantial time off from work to sort out his head. This is at least the tenth time I have heard this since May. With all the lying that's gone on, I just don't believe he will do it.

I prepared my plan B letter (it's actually been just about ready since May when Jennifer H. first told me to think about it) last night. I decided that I would hand deliver it to WH at his office and also deliver a copy to OW in person at the same time.

Before I got there (unbeknowst to me) my boss (who is a friend of WH) called him up and told him that more and more people in our small professional circle were aware of what was going on and that WH better get his s#$t together before his professional reputation is destroyed and he loses his job.

I show up this afternoon. Hand him the letter and then ask to be shown OW's office. She's there on the phone and I hand her a copy of the letter.

I vascillate between feeling good about this and thinking "Oh my God, what have a I done". I hope I find peace from this.

Thankfully, I am leaving tomorrow to go to a family wedding and won't be back until Monday night.

USH,

I will definitely be keeping you in my thoughts, ok?? I have a feeling that your husbands world is going to become crashing down real soon, with the job situation, your plan B, etc.

You have done a good Plan A, you have left him with alot of positive thoughts of you. Stay strong, hang in there, I know you can do it. I am glad to see that you are going out of town!!

I really admire and respect your strength. I've been lurking and following your story.

I wish you the best! Have a great time away this weekend, and I hope that you have the resolve to keep him away for a while.

((HUGS))