Ok, my H and I are separated, have been since Sept 8. He and co-teacher are having an A (EA for 2 years, PA for 2 months). Kids (boys ages 5 and 6) and I are moving to a house 45 min away, closer to my job, and he came over last night to watch the boys while I went to class (working on master's). Well, I have been dancing around him for 2 years, through the whole EA thing, and I gave him space for him (his "friendship" he called it). anyway we were having a discussion about our youngest who is now going through separation anxiety. He didn't have a clue that the reason he is going through this is because he has chosen to leave. He said he went through that anxiety when we started school and it was normal. Well, I told him this was different because our child, aged 5, has been going to daycare since he was a baby (and school this year started for him in July, not sept, because we are on year-round school), and never has experienced this before, until the split. Then I really got into it with him. He hasn't contacted the kids in 5 days, and he said that I know him, he never uses the phone. I said I had a phone bill that showed calls to OW that showed otherwise.

Then I found out, when I went to class, that he had been talking down about me at his school during a summer workshop, when another teacher asked him why, if he was so unhappy, didn't he divorce me? I confronted him with this when I got home, and at first he denied it, then said the only thing he could think of was when he and some other guy teachers were talking about their wives, he just joined in, didn't mean anything bad by it. I said that evidently someone thought he did by advising him he should get a divorce. (this was not the teacher whom he is having an A with).

Anyway, for the first time in about 2 years of (unknowingly) Plan A'ing it, I lost it. I told him that I would never ever be anyone else's fool again. That he had taught me never to trust anyone again. (Because I did trust him, all through this EA, and it ended up a PA and they are planning on divorcing spouses and getting together). So, now I've decided to Plan B, and I really don't care if he comes back or not (ok, maybe that is a lie, I would love to have the choice). Background: No kidding, for 2 years I have been "kissing his butt", not rocking the boat about his "friendship", etc. Cleaning house, cooking supper, praying, loving him no matter what, and he withdrew from me. So now I'm mad. And, I wonder, what in the world could he have said about me? That I questioned his friendship? Who knows, but someone please tell me if I LB'ed or just finally, for once, stood up for myself. In fact, he even said, "since when have you started talking to me this way?" Like I was a child. Family said he had it coming for a long time, and are glad I stood up for myself. They think he'll hit his knees soon, if I leave him alone and don't cling. But I'm so worried I LBed BigTime.

Thanks for opinions.

Kimmy -- I really don't know if you LBed. I know that the Harley's say that your WH defines what is an LB or not. If you've really been doing plan A for two years my heart goes out to you. This is just about killing me.

From what you've posted, well, probably your WH will consider it an LB, but I have to tell you that in my humble opinion any time a BS says anything that remotely challenges their behavior it's an LB. Were you standing up for yourself? Yes, I think so. Was it an LB? I guess only your WH can really answer that question. I think if you did it without raising your voice or using a sarcastic tone, then it's probably not an LB. From what I understand, as long as you raise things in a calm manner and don't use a sarcastic or caustic tone, then it isn't so much an LB.

I hope somebody else responds to you. It helps me to keep re-reading these Harley books because I personally think it's often a very fine line between what is standing up for yourself and what is an LB.

Unsureheart, thanks so much for replying. It means a lot. And, by reading your signature by your name, my heart goes out to you, too. How do you handle it, being separated for so long, not knowing what WH wants? He's wants the M, then he doesnt? How do you deal with it? My H has only been gone 3 weeks, and I'm heartbroken, but of course he's saying he wants out. Actually, you are an inspiration for me to see what they do change their minds. (even though it looks like they change them back and forth!)

Yes, I did raise my voice, and I'm sure I came across sarcastic, but my friends say it is about time. they say that he has been having his cake and eating it too, and that I have been way too patient or nice to him all through the EA. Then when I found out it was a PA, I lost it, mainly because he kept maintaining it was just a "friendship". In fact, I had even been trying to support him this summer (while unbeknownst to me he was sleeping with her in my house when I wasn't there) in his "friendship" by saying I didn't mind if they spent time together, just to let me know so that I would be able to tell people that yes, I know yall are spending time together (!!). So, of course, I feel like the BIGGEST fool on earth. So, I was sarcastic and did raise my voice, (although I'm sick right now, and he said I shouldn't upset myself so much being sick--how nice to have his concern). But, like you said, if I disagreed with anything, then it would be considered an LB.

My friends say I'm way too nice and should have made him choose his "friendship" or marriage a long time ago, but I kept praying, literally, that this would work its way out. (and was afraid of which way he would choose, and apparently I had reason to be anxious). I love this man. Wish sometimes I could change that.

Any advice is appreciated. Should I continue with no contact unless totally necessary (like when he watches the boys while I'm in class?).

Thanks!

Kimmy -- I don't know what to tell you exactly about no contact, but I don't think I'd go that route yet. Since you have two young children that need both of you and you've only been separated three weeks, I would try harder to do a plan A from a distance. It is hard -- I won't kid you about that. However, I also believe it was/is easier for me to take a step back and get a grip and keep from Lbing with WH out of the house.

It's an ebb and flow process. When I do a really good plan A I see more warmth from my WH and then he pulls back and gets scared. Then I pull back and he wants to try again or move home or whatever.

Have you read Surviving an Affair and the other Harley books? I thought Fall in Love Stay Love was helpful. I also have found Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorce Remedy to be a huge help in terms of a reference/something I can read.

The other thing I would read and you'll have to scroll to about page 3 or 4 of Gen Questions II to find it, is Going Crazy's post about the Perfect Plan A/marriage. It is an inspiration.

I know it's hard when you get well meaning advice from friends and co-workers. They care about you and have a difficult time seeing you in pain. I have heard the same. However, they are not in your marriage and do not know how much love you do or don't have left for your WH. I believe the Harley's are right that when you have love left you should stay in plan A. Easier said than done I know.

This is all so hard and I really feel for you with your young children. The best advice people have given me is to focus on me/I cannot change WH's behavior. You need to focus on you and your children and not WH for a bit.

kimmy2...

It does sound like you were 'standing-up' for yourself... and only you can determine if the past 2 years have really been an impeccable plan A...

if so... your H is an incredible cakeman to have you AND OW for the past 2 years...

only you can determine if plan b is adviseable. I would check out www.divorcebusting.com ... especially her latest book "Divorce Remedy." Check out her steps up through 'Going Dark.' (Going Dark and Plan B/No Contact are virtually the same.)

Your friends will cheer you on until you are divorced... and while you need support... and your friends are well-meaning... they are NOT YOU and don't have to live your life...

Cali

Thanks, again, Cali and Unsureheart, for help. Your posts are making me think this over. I have been so angry, feeling like I have been taken for a fool for so long. But, I think the man I married is still in there somewhere. He was raised by a twoparent Christian family. He still goes to church faithfully, even through all of this. We are both very naive in this, as my signature says, have only (until now) had each other. So, I really, deep down, truly feel he is in a fog right now. My preacher says that having hope is good. Our preacher also feels he will "wake up" when God decides to touch him. He feels he will hit is knees. Even some friends feel that way, too. In fact, a friend of mine said her prediction is he will last 3 months--just knowing his "true" character and that she thinks he's really confused because this person has given him sooooo much attention for so long.
So maybe a distant plan A (which would be a continuation of what I'm doing) will be good, even though I did blow up last night. Maybe he will feel guilty (? maybe?) about his behavior if he sees me doing things for him. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I"m as confused as he is.