My fiance has requested that I must commit to her that I will NEVER commit adultery. While I told her that it is not my hearts desire to do that, I explained that given the right circumstances any person could commit adultery. She states that it is an act of choice to commit this sin. I totally agree; but I added it is only by Gods' grace that we do not commit in horrible sin...we are all capable of commiting "horrible sins". She has told me under no circumstances would she commit adultery. While I want this to be her hearts desire, I say she is capable of commiting this act because of our human condition and nature to sin. For her to say, she would NEVER commit the act is to say she does not understand that she is not perfect in any circumstances. Would like to receive opinions.

So obviously you have discussed with her the fact that any part of "forsaking all others" in the vows I presume you are planning on taking will be removed and or clarified with the exception of certain "circumstances"...

Vows convenants and sacraments are not lightly given nor taken...and do not come with clauses granting presidential pardon based on circumstances...

and I would hope that you clearly explain to any and all guests coming to your wedding that you believe that certain circumstances make one powerless to stop themselves from getting naked with someone other than their spouses and there for give them the opportunity to opt for the cheap gift rather than the really expensive one right?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I totally disagree with you...we all and do have God given control to stop ourselves from certain actions and behaviors....
affairs, one night stands, and even the use of hookers all take premataded actions, steps and thoughts that are not committed due to lack of God's grace...there are plenty of warning signs that occur long before the sin of adultery and though confused as WS may be.... we are not powerless to stop...

Part of what you are saying is that onus of responsibility of our actions is out of are hands. People can and do affair proof their marriages each and every day....and can pretty much say they would never do that to a spouse...

None of us are perfect...none with out sin...but the sin of adultery is paved with so many other sins of disrepect to ourselves, the betrayed, and even the other person involved....that there is always time to put on the brakes and seek forvigeness long before the consumating act...It is these acts that we can, must and should safe gaurd ourselves to keep in focus the vows we took...and it because of these warning flags along the way that we can come to a place where we say...I would not commit adultery...

Why are you marrying anyone if you do not believe that things are in your control...If you do not believe yourself accountable for your actions why would you drag anyone else into your world of chaos and victimized thinking?? I don't say that to be mean..I am just interested in if you don't believe that you can be faithful..why would you set someone else up for that type of hell...cause if I was your fiancee I would be terrified of the day you come home with some story about finding your soul-mate..and based on circumstance out of your control you have been unfaithful....yikes

You can split hairs over the saying never say never...but if you truly believe that people in affairs are powerless to stop themselves...then dude...set you fiancee free....
ARK...answering because...you did ask...

<strong>"but I added it is only by Gods' grace that we do not commit horrible sin"</strong>

I know the old saying, "there, but for the grace of God go I," but this is completely inaccurate.

Grace is God's act of forgiving your sin, though you don't deserve it. Period. It does not protect you from sin. You have free will to sin or not. God loves you anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

NONETHELESS...
Do you always over-intellectualize things? I don't mean to be, well, mean, but c'mon dude. So, OK, you're right, we have no crystal ball here. We can't guarantee what you'll do in the future.

So, I guess you're right. The vows are illogical.

So, how did you come to believe in God? I mean, there is no proof. There are stories. And, yeah, lots of people believe. But I mean, it *could* all be made up, right? It could, you have to admit that. Your belief in God is therefore, illogical.

Alright, enough of me being Mr. Wise-a**. Your fiance wants you to commit to her. She's willing to commit to you. Yep, we live in a fallen world. And it's no secret that we humans mess up.

A big part of that is because we've come to take commitment so lightly. We intellectualize about the futility of it all... which allows us to rationalize BAD behavior. Which is what you're doing, bro--rationalizing.

If you want my opinion, you are not ready to marry this woman. Too bad. She sounds like the kind of woman any guy would really want to marry. She is seriously committed to making vows with you. You are not.

Figure out WHY.

gospel truth,

Never make a promise you can't keep. Your fiance now realizes that you can't promise faithfulness. I give her credit for learning that before you married her. She asked you a simple question and got a hard cold answer.

Infidelity is a choice. It sounds as though you are already looking for ways to excuse or justify your future or current unfaithfulness by hiding behind the will of God or the forgiveness of God.

Get real! If you are not ready to commit yourself to your Bride then you should have never proposed marriage. She deserves better.

tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

gospel truth,

“My fiancée has requested that I must commit to her that I will NEVER commit adultery.”

Last time I saw the marriage vows they said “forsake all others”. That is a basis for the contract of marriage. Based on both civil and religious laws a wayward spouse (WS) has broken their marriage contract upon infidelity. The betrayed spouse (BS) has the right to end the marriage at that point.

“I explained that given the right circumstances any person could commit adultery.”

Do you feel the same way about other ‘sins’. Do you feel that you will never commit murder, theft, rape, emotional/physical abuse and so forth? Are there any ‘sins’ or ‘crimes’ that you know in your heart of hearts that you would never commit?

Infidelity is very much about living an secret life, sneaking, lying, stealing marital assets to entertain and give gifts to the other person (OP), taking time/love/energy that has been promised to your spouse. So what you are saying is that you cannot guarantee that you will not do these things. So you are telling your fiancée that under the right circumstances, you are not only humanly capable of these actions, but you will do them. Not a very good indictment on your character.

No one can ever meet 100% of another person’s needs all the time. And sometimes people have affairs even when their spouse is doing a darn good job at meeting their needs. They just want to play around. Yes theoretically you are right about this. But there is also the issue of free choice. When given the right circumstances for infidelity a person can still make a choice.. to be adulterous or not. Adultery is not something that just happens. Every single person who has ever lived on this earth has absolute control over whether or not they have an affair.

No it is not “God’s Grace” that keeps us from committing horrible sins. God does not play us like game pieces. He has given us free will. He has promised to never give us more temptations then we can handle. It is your choice how you respond to the temptation.

Only about 45% of all people ever have affairs. They occur in about 60% of all marriages because in some marriages both parties cheat. So about 55% of all people are able to CHOOSE to not engage in infidelity. It is a choice because most married people have plenty of opportunity to have affairs.

The trick in insuring that neither of you ever has an affair is to make a choice to never do it. Make that choice together. Then work your darndest to affair proof your marriage. The Marriage Builder books are very good for this.

My ex-h said something similar to me. He said, “There are no guarantees.” I found that he was lying, there were guarantees… guarantees that he would cheat every chance he got from day one.

From what you have said I would not marry you. Your argument sounds like you are trying to weasel out of fidelity.

gospel truth...

You want to spout off about the gospel, truth, marriage and infidelty. Well get a clue of what the covenant of marriage is about.....

themarriagebed.com

<small>[ October 03, 2002, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>