Well, I am prepared to be critized, and maybe rightly so, but let me explain. She came back from vacation on Monday and offered to buy me a cup of coffee. I said yes. We had then and then I told her that it seemed like the lunches were not a good idea. Shje asked me why. I gave my explaination from what I have learned on here, but did not bring up emotional needs and all that because it would make her seem needy or something.

She told me we wre doing nothing wrong and asked me why exactly it was bad. I just said it was a feeling that it was not right. She asked for a specific and I could not come up with anything. She said she is not looking to replace her husband, she loves him but she feels that I am a good friend. I said I loved my wife. So she asked what is so wrong about going to lunch?

I looked at the stuff on emotional needs and the love unit bank on here. CDould it be possible that I have filled her bank without meaning to? If that is the case, could a bank be filled up but the person not act on it? Can you feel good about someoene and not necessarily take that next step?

I like going to lunch once a week. We talk about work and the people we work with . not holding hands or anything like that. No sexual talk at all.

You all can flame me and tell me I am nuts. Maybe I am, but I bet some lurkers here are wondering the same thing that I am wondering but are not honest enough to admit it.

At this point we have not had another lunch. Just the coffee

Why do you keep coming back here trying to justify the road you're headed down? You've been told time and time again that this will only lead to disaster. You are obviously already involved in an EA. Whether it's just your feelings or hers also. You are deep in the fog.

Why don't you quit asking the question here, and go ask your wife. Better yet bring your wife here and let her read all of your posts and let her tell you that it's ok. Haven't you gotten the message yet? If you wouldn't do it in front of your spouse then you shouldn't be doing it. Of course you won't tell your wife or bring her here. You have something to hide. You are already cheating.

If you truly want help, then sit down and take the EN questionaire and get your wife to do the same. Then go back to work on your marriage. That is, if you truly want to get help.

Most people here are going through a living HE** because of these A's. Your continuing to come here and justify your "innocent lunches" inflicts more pain on those who are already hurting. I for one am tired of seeing you come here and ask for permission over and over for you continue to have this AFFAIR.

If I'm out of line here, then let someone with more compassion and more experience explain things differently. Maybe it's time for the proverbial 2x4 for this guy.

Cautious, I am trying so hard not to be angry with you or maybe I should say frustrated. Please go back and read my post to you where I told you that this is exactly the same way my H and his OW started their A. I am not sure if you think we are all crazy, lying to you, have some kind of sick sense of humor or what, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong. This woman is exactly, identical, a carbon copy of the OW that nearly destroyed me, my H, my marriage, my sanity, my self esteem, my H's sanity and self respect and a lot more that you are dead set on destroying in your marriage and your life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I call these type of women, not all OW's, but the type you are dealing with, ANTICHRISTS. Theu are cunning, golden tongued, innocent seeming, convincing, charming and leading you down a path of destruction and a way to loose every thing that is good, honest and decent in your life. Do you know how many people you have had to answer to you who would have loved to have had someone tell them all of the things you have been told before they kept stepping out into the quick sand of an A?
PLEASE LISTEN. YOU DO NOT OWE THIS WOMAN ANY EXPLANATIONS! Just tell her you will not be having lunch with her , coffee with her or anything else. She already seems to be an addiction for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> How sad that you won't heed all of the warnings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I want to tell you to just go ahead, tell your wife that you must have your friend and your lunches and file for divorce but that is my frustration talking. Your W sure seems to love you and she deserves you to be more of a man and a better H than to keep this up. I am going to let it go, myself.I have said all I know to say. Do you hear that.......Whooooohhh..Whoooohhh. Whoooooohhh..Whoooooh that's the train whistle, it's coming down the track...you better get off the trestle cause it is too far to jump at the last minute! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Peace.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Stubborn jerk.

(OK, so I need to work a bit on my compassion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

We had then and then I told her that it seemed like the lunches were not a good idea. Shje asked me why. I gave my explaination from what I have learned on here, but did not bring up emotional needs and all that because it would make her seem needy or something.

She told me we wre doing nothing wrong and asked me why exactly it was bad. I just said it was a feeling that it was not right. She asked for a specific and I could not come up with anything. She said she is not looking to replace her husband, she loves him but she feels that I am a good friend. I said I loved my wife. So she asked what is so wrong about going to lunch?

Whatever you do, DO NOT SAY anything about being attracted, having feelings (of any kind) or anything along those lines. Beginning of the end.

. CDould it be possible that I have filled her bank without meaning to?
Absolutely. A love bank doesn't necessarily mean "love" until it gets to that point and then it's too late.

She is not forcing you at gunpoint to have lunch/coffe with her and you do NOT owe her an explanation as to why you can't/won't.

JUST SAY NO!

Stop it now and you'll only be a jerk to her for a few weeks. Wait until it gets serious and after everyone involved has their lives ruined and you'll be more than a jerk to her & everyone else.

OK Cautious,
You know it's wrong, we know it's wrong, what part of this do you not understand? Instead of continuing to ask the same questions here and look for validation of your EA, go back and read every response that you have received.

If, after reading the advice that many here have given (most from tragic personal experience) you still don't think that you are involved in an EA then sit your wife down and let her read it all.
If there is nothing wrong with your feelings about the OW, you won't have a problem with this...right?

Stop asking permission for this EA and take ownership of your own behavior. If you want to be married, then act like it. This site is called MARRIAGE BUILDERS, get it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Cautious, In all due respect you are not exercising caution. You are risking everything even now. My husband's affair started out exactly as you discribe. Reading your emails is making my heart ache and my panic alarm sound. Listen, please!!! to the others on this board...if your wife doesn't know then it is already an affair. Read Emotional Infidelity Chapter 1. If you still question the "friends" issue.

This is my first post after months of lurking...obviously I feel very strongly about what you are saying/doing/feeling if this is the first that I officially responded to.

My counsellor said that my husband's affair is a debt he will never be able to repay, no matter how much he wants to. I know he wasn't thinking that last year when he was paying those lunch tabs.

dangerous. I mean cautious:

"You all can flame me"

ol' 2long fires up plasma torch... applies flame 2 dangerous, I mean CAUTIOUS.

"and tell me I am nuts."

You're nuts.

"Maybe I am,"

Yes, you are.

"but I bet some lurkers here are wondering the same thing that I am wondering"

I bet you're right

"but are not honest enough to admit it."

Or maybe they're sentient enough 2 avoid it.

"At this point we have not had another lunch."

Good.

"Just the coffee "

Bad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cautious:
<strong> So she asked what is so wrong about going to lunch? </strong> [/QUOTE}]

It is a secret, that's what's so wrong about going to lunch. It's a secret, and it's not plans for a surprise party for your unsuspecting wife.

[QUOTE} <strong>
At this point we have not had another lunch. Just the coffee</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doesn't matter. Lunch, coffee, whatever.

You know what? You are going to do whatever you want to do, so please just do it and stop trying to get a rise out of us here. This is so ridiculous, I have a hard time believing it's for real. No one here is going to tell you it's okay. Okay?? We all know firsthand that it's not, and we're not going to tell you that it is. Stop asking us to. Please. Go somewhere else to get your justification. Stop messing with us.

MT

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

The fog is soooo thick!

"How thick is it?"

It's so thick he can't even hear the fog horns. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

S&C

<small>[ October 02, 2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

Cautious,
I know exactly where you are coming from. From the minute I met my OM I was in denial that anything was wrong. We were friends bc that’s all we could be I was married --had been for 20+ years and planned to stay that way and he was in a committed relationship, coming out of a divorce after 30 years. We really enjoyed each other’s company…I know I felt a special spark and chemistry. I struggled for about 1 and ½ years of trying to understand why we couldn’t be friends…I loved my H, he loved his partner…neither of us was available, so why couldn’t we be friends?

One of the reasons why we couldn’t be friends was bc my H didn’t feel comfortable with me being friends with this man. So my friendship was a source of bad tension. In marriage we can’t do things that really upset our mates…so even if I felt comfortable with the friendship and if the OM did as well, it didn’t matter…bc my H didn’t like it. I suspect that your wife wouldn’t like it nor would her H. Does your wife know about her? Does her H know about you?

Anyway, the OM and I had an emotional affair that lasted 2 years…we never touched. But before I knew what hit me I was totally and completely in love with this man. Unknowingly, from casual lunches, many with other people, I had fallen totally in love with this man.

I never fell out of love with my H. In fact, after seeing the OM, I was happy, giddy, affectionate. But I began to think about the OM all of the time. I became dependent on his emails, our calls and lunches. I loved him and wanted to spend more time with him. That was beginning to be a problem for me. I would want to have lunch with the OM rather than my H…Even though I continued to love and enjoy my H.,,it was really confusing.

To fast forward, I’m still married, I haven’t been in touch with the OM for 6 months. My H and I are doing great. He knows about the OM and he knows that I fell in love with him.

It has been the most confusing time of my life and not seeing the OM has been the hardest personal challenge I have ever taken on or faced. On a daily basis it continues to be really hard.

How the OW looks at your friendship is irrelevant. And like it or not, you are emotionally involved with her. And it only gets worse. You are lucky because you found MB before you got too involved. I didn’t find out about MB until after a year and a half. I didn’t know about emotional affairs and how damaging they could be to our marriages. You’re lucky be you know so much more than I did…and you know so much more than she appears to know.

My OM, knew much more about relationships than I did and he knew what needed to be done. As much as it hurt, he needed to stop being receptive to me, my emails, and my calls. He didn’t want to hurt my feelings, but he knew we were going down a very dangerous path…as he said, we were playing with fire and sooner or later one of us was going to get burned.

I had to change jobs bc I knew I could never stop seeing him if we continued to work at the same place.

I know that this board can be very harsh…and they have very little tolerance for WS and what we feel and our pain. But I know how hard it is to give up something that feels like we shouldn’t’ have to give it up. It might take you a long time to finally “get it” so continue to write and share your thoughts…and don’t let these people who are so impatient with the feelings WS’s feel or the confusion we are going through, keep you from posting here. Good luck. And do the right thing.

Ashirley

Cautious, (btw, outright stupid name as your actions are anything BUT cautious....

Yes, I'm gonna flame. But first let me begin by qualifying: If you are some fake trying to rile us up with these posts, I suggest you take it elsewhere. There are a bunch of really nice and caring people here who have been devistated by an A. They have all offered the only advice you will get here: END YOUR EA NOW. To constantly post here, telling us details of what went down with lunch buddy, and obviously ignoring the really good advice YOU asked for, well it just rubs salt in a lot of people's wounds. Many here have/had WS who began their A's in the exact manner as yours is. I, for one, can't help but read your posts and feel that hurt come up again. If you are indeed some horrible person who is getting some sort of thrill by riling up already hurt people, then you're just sick.
Take the details elsewhere, my friend.

Qualifying off

Now, after reading all of that, and you are actually for real, then I do have some things to say.

I'm a woman, so I have some idea of how women work. And (sorry guys) most men are either oblivious or just plain blind to how a lot of women operate. Sadly, in my experience, many women are not part of this fictional "sisterhood" where they respect other women's marriages. Many think that if they can lure a MM away from a wife, then all is fair in love and war.

Maybe it's because some men are just too literal...they just don't get women speak. For instance, when lunch buddy says:

"Why are the lunches such a bad idea? Give me a specific reason", she is saying/doing:

I want to find out if you are interested in me, too and whether you will admit that the lunches are wrong because you have feelings for me too.

SHE'S FISHING FOR COMPLIMENTS!!!

When she says, "I'm not looking to replace my H" she's saying, "this doesn't have to be a serious A". She's also making it known that she will have you any way she can--that she's not wanting a relationship (that scares men away). That she's not going to be demanding.

She's testing the waters to see if you are interested. And when she finds out that you are (cause by tthe sounds of it, YOU ARE), she's gonna do what you don't think she will: MAKE A MOVE ON YOU.

Most women are not into rejection. She's not gonna do anything until she get confirmation that you want something to happen. And so far, she's getting the answers that she wants. You've mentioned to her twice now that you don't think the lunches are a good idea, yet you are still doing them (and yes, coffee counts). This is telling her that you are saying one thing but meaning another. And for a lot of women, the actions mean more than the words.

Please, if you are for real, tell your wife that someone at work is hitting on you. That alone will nip it in the bud. If you like lunches out, go out with some MALE co-workers and talk about work related things.

If you need your ego stroked, let your wife do it. You have to be mean to this woman; you have to be forceful and resolute and tell her that you are not interested. Don't say that the attention is flattering; she will get the idea that you like it. Tell her you are married, that the lunches are making you uncomfortable because it seems to you that she wants more from this freindship that what is appropriate. And then tell her that there are going to be no more lunches, social calls, or coffee.

Of course, if you want an A, nothing we say will deter you. We just see you going down a path that we were/are on and it is not a nice path. If you go forward with this, your wife WILL find out. She will be thrown into the absolute worst situation of her life. She will suffer one of the most horrible pain that any spouse can go through. She will want to die, she will never be able to trust fully again, her world will be shattered, everything she hold dear will be ruined. And it will be all because of you.

Do you really want to live with that kind of guilt just for a few quickies in the photocopier room, or for a few ego strokes? Is that worth putting your wife through all of that? If you answer yes, then tell her you want a divorce, leave, and then start the A. That would be kinder than doing what you are contimplating doing to her now.

R@L

Oh, sorry if there are typos, everyone. I was typing too fast and to be honset, I really don't want to proofread this over. This whole situation kinda makes me sick.

I'll save my energy to reply to people who sincerely want help.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ...doesn't really matter what we think. You seem to have it all figured out, you don't need us! So, stop posting!

Why do you keep justifying your relationship with this woman...yet you come here?? Nobody here will tell you it's ok.

Tell your wife about this lunch woman. Can't do it? If you must keep it secret from your wife, then it's a problem.

Just shaking my head. I don't understand why people purposely hurt the very ones they are supposed to love. Sometimes I hate the human race.

Well, if anything, your friend is not respecting your feelings. You told her that you have a bad feeling and she disregarded your feelings. She insisted on a specific example and it seems to me that your gut instincts should warrant as much respect.

My philosophy in life is "if there is a doubt, then don't" it's like your internal red flag signaling you to STOP. You got the red light inside of you and that's reason enough to end the lunches.

So okay, the lunches are harmless and your conversation is non-sexual and your safety nets are all securely in place... Since you feel so safe and everything is so right, you should not have any questions at all. When something is right, we don't need reasons why, we simply know it.

What bothers me is that you told her that you had a doubt and she immediately dismissed your feelings. She's sounding selfish. Sure, it's a small thing, but it's the little foxes that spoil the vine. She doesn't want to give up your friendship. It doesn't mean you can't be friends. Why not invite other coworkers to go out with you, you know? In groups of 5 or 6? And don't ride around in your car alone with her anymore. If she is such a good friend, she won't mind including others. When you set up the lunches, tell her you'll meet her there and invite other coworkers (male) and then ride to the restaurant with the guys. Tell her to bring a pal.

Something was wrong and you simply knew it. Reasoning gets in the way of good, common sense and conscious. Your conscious is telling you something doesn't feel right and she insists that you violate your own conscious. That speaks volumes about her OWN conscious--or lack thereof!!!

I don't know, cautious, I still don't like this person very much... just from a wife's POV...

p.s. I don't like her for the potential she has of ruining your marriage!!! She's persuading you to violate your conscious! When you said you "had a feeling it's not right," to me, that IS being VERY specific!

I'm saying this to you as a former OW who got myself pregnant by a MM and raised the OC with no contact! Granted, I was single and without any conscious whatsoever! Being married now, it seems like I can spot danger a mile away in the infidelity department as I have walked in those shoes of causing pain to innocent lives through selfish acts and disregarding others' feelings.

When I got married, before we ever discovered MB, we agreed that we would not ride around in our cars with ANYONE of the opposite sex, and that we would avoid even the appearance of infidelity, including being out to lunch alone with members of the opposite sex. It's not about BEING cautious, it's taking PRECAUTIONS!!! Avoiding the possibility of even being in the position to be tempted. Even still, you have to work at avoiding problems in your thought life!

<small>[ October 03, 2002, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>