Ok, this might get long but I want to try and put all the details of what happened between myself
and WW last night. WW is moving today. Last night I came home and was mowed the lawn and was
checking chemicals in the hot tub when WW came out on the back deck and just looked at me. I asked
if she was ok. She said she just had a panic attack. That it just hit her that she is leaving her home.
She said she was scared and worried if we were making the right decision. She said she felt weak.
I told her she was not weak, that I wish I had her strength. I told her I thought it would be good for
both of us to separate. We need the time apart. She said she thought this would be good for us no matter what happens. I asked her if she would sleep in our bed tonight. She
said yes, but wanted to know why. I said b/c I wanted her to be there tonight in case this is the last
time we sleep in the same bed together. She said she doubted this would be the last time we were
in that same bed together. She said she was going to leave most of her stuff here just in case things
change. I told her that if she called me in a month to tell me she wanted to come home, I wouldn’t
let her. She was surprised and said you wouldn’t let me? I said there are too many things that have
to happen before we make that move and a month will not be enough time for us to decide what it
is we both want.
I told her I thought she needed to go see OM. She asked why? I said you need to deal with that, good
or bad. But, I said I cannot promise I will be here when you get back. I want to be, but that it will
hurt too much to know she is with him again. She said that I would still be here, b/c she would not
sleep with him if she were to see him again. I told her I couldn’t believe that. She said she thought
she needed to see him to decide what her feeling were for him or to say goodbye. She said she knows that
he’ll always be in the back of her mind. I told her I understood that, in fact I told her that after my
EA 5 years ago it took almost a year for me to get XOW out of my mind.
I also told her that I have received a phone call from XOW today. XOW had heard from my mother
(they work in the same place, Oh, and XOW is married with children). She called to tell me she had
heard and wanted to see how I was doing. I said I was hanging in there. She told me that she hoped
it worked out between WW and myself. But, that if it didn’t I would have no problem finding
someone. I told her I didn’t think anyone would want to be with me. She said you are a great catch
and any woman would be lucky to find you. I told her that I go out with my friend John and women
are all over him. She said that is because he has confidence in himself, but that I am much better
looking. She said women don’t want John’s they want Toro’s. This conversation made me feel better
than I have in the previous month. Anyhow, I told WW what XOW had said. It surprised her that I
admitted we had talked and wanted to know if I wanted to be with her again. I told her no, which is
the truth.
Our kids wanted to watch a movie in our bedroom. So, myself, WW and our kids laid in our bed and
watched Monsters, Inc. After the movie we put the kids to bed and turned off the tv. A few minutes
later WW asked if I would hold her. My heart jumped. I said yes and we help each other till morning.
We both didn’t want to get out of bed, but the kids had to get to school. We didn’t sleep much either.
We talked a little too. She asked if she could call me in the middle of the night to talk. I said
absolutely, I would like that. She asked would I ever come to her place and sleep with her in her bed sometime. I said,
let’s wait and see when that happens. That’s a big decision right now. She again said she was scared,
b/c she has never been on her own. I told her I was there for her and that I always will be.  I
apologized to her for being selfish in our marriage. I told her she was the most important thing in my
life. I also told her I wish we had held each other like this a long time ago. She agreed. She still says
she doesn’t know what she wants. I told her I feel like I am the fall back guy. That if things don’t
work out between her and OM, she can just come back to me. She said if that was the case I
wouldn’t have done this tonight (holding each other). I said why did you? She said she wanted too.
It made me feel good. I told her if she ever decides to come back, I want her to come back because
she wants to be with me, not because she is scared or because of money. I said if that were the case
we would be back in the same problems as before. She said she agreed.
I guess I need someone’s input and take on all of this. I know she is scared to be alone. But is this
at all a good sign for me. Or, am I just looking for something that isn’t there. Also, I was thinking
that when she moved we wouldn’t talk or see much of each other. In talking with her, she makes it
seem like we’ll be seeing each other more than that. She is even talking now about bringing the boys
over in the morning to me to take them to school. Which I would love to do anyway. I know it is
WAY to early to tell anything now. She might and probably will change in a couple of weeks. I told
her so, and she said she didn’t think she would.
So, question #1: do I go to her place and sleep (nothing physical) in her bed with her if she asks. I
think that would be a great time to Plan A her. Also, do I try to be unavailable for her. Or do I make
sure I am there for her. OM lives 1500 miles away, so he can’t be there for her. Please someone give
me direction. I am not sure how to do this. I don’t want to squander any opportunities I get with her.
You guys have always given me such good advice. I really need some here.

TORO

Hey Toro. My WW never moved out, so understand that I've not been in those shoes.

Your Q: Do I go to her place and sleep?

Um, well, I guess if you're willing to do that forever. I think Plan A is about showing her she can choose M, or what's behind door #2. It's about letting her look inside door #2, while showing the very best of you. I'd be worried about blurring the lines by you stepping inside door #2.

Read up on the Plan A stuff. Re-read it. See if what you are thinking makes sense.

I think, ultimately, you want to show yourself to be a man who can stand on his own two feet. So, differentiate between being available for her, and clinging to her.

It sounds like she is already seeing that what's behind door #2 isn't so great. Sounds like the fog lights are turned on!

Last--well, I started to say, I know how much this must hurt--but I don't. I know you are in a lot of pain right now. Take care of yourself. Eat. Sleep as best you can. If you used to exercise, keep that up. If not, this might be a good time to start--if nothing else to kill an hour each day.

Take care, bro.

oops

Toro,

As much as this hurts, you need to decide whether you will let her work on herself and not take her back too soon. She needs to appreciate what she has lost. She needs to earn back her right to be your W. Yes, that is what I said, earn it back.

Being your W is a valuable position. Leaving her family is not.

Don't minimize your position. You have let her know she needs to go and she is going. This is a hard adjustment period but if you waver now, she may not appreciate the importance of coming back. Many a WS think that the BS will always be there for them and go out and do more stupid things. Let her wonder where you will be emotionally and physically. That will help her decide if the OM is worth all this worry.

Speak to Steve. Your last conversation with her showed you got in a lot of info to her and from her. This is good. small steps.

take care,
L.

Your post really spoke to me. My H and I had a similar night earlier on in our separation, before we went on separate summer vacations. We held each other all night long. It meant the world to me, and really encouraged me that we both still loved each other, even if my H insisted on saying he no longer loved me.

The fact that you and your wife and your kids got to share some quiet time all together watching a movie that final night must have made you all very happy. Reading that brough a tear to my eye!

I have a few kind thoughts for you on some parts of your post:

"She said she was scared and worried if we were making the right decision. She said she felt weak....She said she doubted this would be the last time we were in that same bed together. She said she was going to leave most of her stuff here just in case things change."

These remarks on her part make things seem very hopeful to me. She may be moving out, but certainly seems open to the idea of returning to you after some time apart. In fact, she almost sounds like she expects to return to you.

"I told her I thought she needed to go see OM. "

Oh my, that was brave of you to say that! I doubt very many BSs would encourage their WS to go see the OM to figure things out. But I suppose you want her to come back to you only if she is DONE with him and truly wants to be with you and only you.

"Also, I was thinking that when she moved we wouldn’t talk or see much of each other. In talking with her, she makes it seem like we’ll be seeing each other more than that."

Maintain as much contact as you are comfortable with. If you are trying to "Plan A" her at all, the more contact the better. But, as for sleeping with her in the same bed, I think that should be reserved for a married couple who are committed to each other. Odd for a WS to say, but I think that's only right. It would pull at your heart strings perhaps a little too much I think to be that close to each other and then be apart again. My H wanted to sleep with me, but not spend any daytime hours with me - I coudln't keep doing that. It tore me apart.

I completely agree with Riff's comment: "I think, ultimately, you want to show yourself to be a man who can stand on his own two feet. So, differentiate between being available for her, and clinging to her."

So stay strong, keep your chin up, and continue to be a kind and loving H when your W gives you the opportunity, but perhaps save sleeping together for if/when you are back together. It may send her a stronger message if she CAN'T have that unless she gives up on OM and comes back to you, for good.

Take care and good luck with living on your own.

Jen

Toro,

I haven't got much time -

My take is that if you are patient, you will win if you give your W a mix of sometimes being there for her and sometimes not. Don't chase her at all! I think you are playing it right on that point. Don't say "sure, any time!" - but don't say "never" either. Sometimes when she calls, be gone somewhere. Sometimes be home.

OK, I gotta run!

-AD

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>