<small>[ October 07, 2002, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: fresh_start ]</small>

I am so sorry to hear this… you have put so much into saving your marriage. If indeed it never does recover, you will at least be able to look back and know that you did all that is humanly possible.

Remember that there is a large element of fog all that she said. She could wake up tomorrow and have reality hit her like a brick. It’s not over until the ink dries on the divorce papers.

---“She said she could not because she had to do a party tomorrow, with my family.”

Why play this game anymore? Why let her take advantage of you one day longer. So they may act rash. Tell them, then let her know you did. That way the light of day can shine on her affair. Sun light kills vampires and affairs. There is a similarity you know.. they both such our life’s blood.

Good for you for not letting her take the children. See an attorney asap to get an interim child custody plan in place to protect them and your self.

Perhaps it is now time to go to a swift Plan B. She thinks she will leave and have it all on her terms. Regardless of what she says, you have been meeting many of her EN’s … that’s the real reason she stayed. Without you, OM, who has never had to meet all her needs, will loose his appeal. He may also run like h3ll when he sees that she is needy.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

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<small>[ October 06, 2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

LIR,

You are right. I do not know what she will do, but I do know that typically what says she will do, she will do. This is just the way she is.

I can do a Plan B in this home, but I still will take care of the kids, clean up around the house, etc. So the only thing that will change is the fact that I will not talk to her anymore. Is that truly a good idea? To ignore her completely when she asks me questions especially about normal everyday child issues. You see a Plan B at home is nearly impossible. I so much want to do something to change the path that was set in course by her, but nothing seems to effect it. I have only managed the last six months to slow it down to a crawl and extend my pain and broaden the damage.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can do a Plan B in this home, but I still will take care of the kids, clean up around the house, etc. So the only thing that will change is the fact that I will not talk to her anymore. Is that truly a good idea? To ignore her completely when she asks me questions especially about normal everyday child issues. You see a Plan B at home is nearly impossible. I so much want to do something to change the path that was set in course by her, but nothing seems to effect it. I have only managed the last six months to slow it down to a crawl and extend my pain and broaden the damage she is causing.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you can't do a plan B in your home because you will still be providing for some EN's like FS. Either you or her would have to leave the house. You can't force to leave because it's her house too and legally she's got every right to stay. If she agrees to leave, then you can implement plan B. But if she refuses to leave then you can then implement a 180 (read Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner-Davis).

Dreamland don't let your anxiety for closure dictate your decisions because you might later regret it. Even if you were divorced right now, she will still be a part of your life for a long time because of your young children, so you need to make peace with her for not only the sake of your children but for you as well.

I'm going to send that gnarly dude of plan A named 2Long to talk to you.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

I would recomend that you read Harley's 'Love Busters' and Michele Weiner-Davis's 'Divorce Busting' if you haven't done so already.

The reasons that you stated are good ones and make the implementation of plan B almost impossible to put forth. It might be a good idea to counsel with the Harley's about what to do.

And enough of the self-pity Dreamland. If you were truly spineless you would have left her AND your children and set on a life path of selfishness.

I would remind you of an old saying that states 'don't beleive everything you hear and beleive only half of what you see'

---- Plan B, will only allow her to continue to use me.
I assume you mean that she will use you because you are taking care of the home and the children.

---- I do not believe that I should be the one to leave, as is the case in a true Plan B.

This is not true. The WS should be the one to leave the family home.

---- I can do a Plan B in this home, but I still will take care of the kids, clean up around the house, etc.

A misconception here. In Plan B you are not cleaning her house, you are cleaning your house. She still has to take care of all things in her won place.

Plan B is not about making your children have to suffer of that the WS suffers. You must, morally take care of your children. You are the one who will benefit from it. Remember that you will be doing most of the child care. But you are also the one who will hear ‘daddy I love you’ and get all those hugs and kisses.

----- So the only thing that will change is the fact that I will not talk to her anymore.

No, much will change… she no longer have you to fall back on. She will no longer see her children ever day. And the list goes on and on…

And she will have to depend on OM to meet all of her needs… do you think he can????? He has not to date.

----- Is that truly a good idea? To ignore her completely when she asks me questions especially about normal everyday child issues.

Yes. The idea is to stop meeting her EN’s cold turkey. She depends on you to meet many of her EN’s. This way she will have a very big EN deficit. There is no need to ignore her about child care issues. Either get a friend to act as an intermediately or only communicate about childcare issues via email. My ex and I have done this since ’96. It works very well because I can ignore his attempts are ‘relationship talk’ and his bashings of me. I only respond to the childcare issues.

----- You see a Plan B at home is nearly impossible.

What? Why do you say this? I don’t get it? If she moves out then what’s the problem?

----- I so much want to do something to change the path that was set in course by her, but nothing seems to effect it. I have only managed the last six months to slow it down to a crawl and extend my pain and broaden the damage she is causing.

Slowing it down was a good thing. Now Plan B may help stop it the rest of the way. Or it may not. But that’s her choice and you cannot force her choices.

Dreamland:

Well, I don't know just how serious this has gotten, and my own sitch isn't as serious as yours sounds, even, but I will state again what's worked for me: Realizing that I really never had done a good enough plan A before I tried 2 plan B in July. Realizing that what I've been doing the past 2+ months is unconditionally loving my W. NO LBing allowed at all. No judgements, no sarcasm about our R or Rat Meat, none of that. What happened? Well, contact continued, I knew it continued, but I ignored it. Loved the livin' $h!t out of my W. She responded. Over time, she felt guilty about her A, but still wouldn't talk 2 me about it much.

Then, last week I was able 2 tell her that the continued contact hurt me, without getting in2 an argument about it. You know what? That made the best progress of all! We're talking more, we're closer, and I truly think we're beginning recovery.

I think you need 2 give your plan A more time. It will be HARD, but if you make home as safe a place as you possibly can, all at the same time making her aware that you're aware of contact and don't condone it (without LBing, remember), her A WILL END. Think about it. OM can NEVER replace you as the father of her kids. Leave her with nothing but positive thoughts 2 think about you, and eventually you'll find her loving you again. OM can't keep up meeting her EN's for long now without LBing himself. Especially since so many people are aware of the A.

At the same time, be careful. Watch your W's behavior. You need 2 be there when she REALLY starts 2 feel withdrawal from OM. She wasn't there when she thought she was a few months ago.

please hang in there,

I dealt with an almost two year PA that my WH had with ms. monkey (her nickname i gave her). You must be able to do a firm plan b now. That means she should move out. You should keep the kids. She had the A. She must allow her actions to see light of day. Get it out in the open and kill those vampires of adultery that suck our life outta us and our families.

Be tough. Even LMBT by Dobson keeps some of MB approach in that if they do not choose after a reasonable length of time to choose family over self then reality must come down like a force never seen before. Loving but tough. You have to. After enduring it myself, i see so much of my struggle last year and part of this year in your words.

I wish you the best and will pray. But you need to do the right thing for your children. I had to and it was to file for D. Needless to say, OW left H a few months ago, supposedly. He still hasn't come around but has done wierd things making me think his fog his somewhat thinner. But it is still way thick and we probably will D very soon. I am indeed back in a firm B that H has tried to sabotage the last two days.

And after the B, expect bad behavior from them. Like a kid crying and kicking to get his/her selfish ways. I want this OM/OW and I want to make demands on you. Just be like before and GIVE ME MY WAY OR I WILL KEEP SELF DESTRUCTING UNTIL YOU GIVE IN. That is what their actions say. Remember this.

I would love it to work out but she has a bad case of The Funky Fog. Prognosis changes from person fogged to other person fogged. We don't know when and if they will recover. So we save the ones we can: ourselves, our kids. Take away your emotional involvement now and be cordial when forced contact is necessary as when visitation takes place. B is B. I have to keep firm.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

Dreamland:

Far worse than my sitch.

I think you're doing the best you can.

Please take care. Your W is still very lost in the fog. She won't like reality.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Fresh -

I obviuosly missed a lot of what you had to say here but will offer some thoughts none the less. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

At one time I was at the same position with my WW planning to get an apartment and take my daughter. If nothing else now is the time when you do need to get some profesional advice (both legal and personal counseling). I'm glad you have shared things with your family, you'll need them, but I think you would also benefit from some inpartial advice.

At some level the sharing of your story (letting it out of the bag) may be the one thing that could change the dynamic. In my case it caused a lot of collateral damage, but in the long run (with a lot of pain) it facilitated things moving in the right direction.

Just to let you know my situation still has a lot of issues but we are working together to get to some state of recovery (if we are not allready in that process).

If nothing else I want you to take care of yourself, make sure your kids are taken care of, and realize that good and bad things happen every day to bad and good people (it is not worth it to wonder why or assign blame, choose to move forward and learn what you can but also seek to make the present and future as good as you can...after all what else is there to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Onwardandup

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: onwardandup ]</small>

dreamland - you've edited out your posts. what's the story?

I suspect that Dreamland has edited out his posts because his wife knows that he posts here, and he probably does not want her to be privy to his private thoughts right now. This has caused trouble for him in the past. He told her he posts here in the hopes that that would help them towards recovery, but it backfired on to him. She came on to the forum a few times - others posted to her, and she posted very honestly a few times. People tried to help her, but she was not in a place where she was able or willing to listen.

Dreamland has been advised by many people to get counselling for both himself and if possible for both of them, but so far, does not seem to have moved in this direction. His wife has many serious issues of her own that she needs help with, that pre-date her marriage.

I hope Dreamland, that I haven't offended you by posting this. I know your heart must be breaking right now, but please know that everyone here is only here trying to help their own marriages, and to share with other people what they have learned in the hopes that it will help others. No-one is trying to tell you what to do with your life. In fact, I was going to post to caution you against revealing too much here, knowing that your wife knows you post here. If you would like me to edit out my posts, just let me know, and I will do that for you.

I was just reading the thread "Now I'm really confused" by C/A1038 - I don't think that's exactly right - but there is a post there from Cerri which I think you would find helpful - and also BrambleRose's "How to be a doormat in plan A" - both posts would help clarify your own feelings for you - why you feel you have been a doormat, and why you should go to plan B.

I will keep checking up on you. If I don't see you here, I will still be praying for you. Let us know from time to time how YOU are, OK?

LIR

Well, if Mrs. Dreamland is reading these posts 2 the forum, I for one want 2 welcome her 2 join in the discussions.

All 2 often, I get the impression that people misinterpret plan A/B as some sort of contest of wills between the BS and the WS. It isn't. M isn't. The primary goal of the MB plans is 2 save Ms and make people in2 better spouses. So, I want 2 welcome both Mr and Mrs Dreamland 2 post here. I hope our experiences can help them with theirs.

All my best, always

Thanks everyone and LIR especially.

I have not gone to counseling thusfar, regardless of what I might have said in the past, for the main reason that I was raised to think very negatively about counseling and mainly it does not work. This has been the big issue with me.

Time to shed that stupid notion and get some MC or IC at a minimum. Looking at the past six months and my actions have made me realize I needed and WE needed help from a counselor. I called a counselor this morning and left a message. Wish me luck.

Fresh -

I would send you any luck that I have, although I'm not sure I have any, just hard work and a willingness to look critcally at myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

I can send my prayers, and tell you to aproach counsleing with an open mind. It can work for some and not for others. In the end it is what you make of it and at least can help you understand yourself.

Cheers

Onward