I have heard many different recommendations about exposing the A. It seems that the Harleys believe it should "see the light of day". Unfortunately, I cannot find anything specific in SAA. According to Cerri and others that are very schooled in the Harley principles, the affair should be exposed.

Others have said that exposing it in any way can backfire/be a huge LB?

I think it's probably both. A huge LB, but maybe necessary. I would really like the thoughts of those that either did or did not tell family, how family found out, and what that did to status of the A, LBing, etc.

What does exposed mean? If you do expose it it seems as if it becomes a huge LB.

The reason I ask is that I just had d-day #2. After first d-day almost nine months ago, I did not tell most of my family or his (I told my sister and his sister and they did not tell anyone else in the family. A few friends know.

Early on, WH actually had the cojones to think that I told the people in his office (that is just plain hilarious because he is the boss in a 5 person office and is having the A with one of his employees on company time and dime plus lots of "long lunches").

After d-day #2 (which was last monday) I was really upset. After all I had been through with a good plan A and it seemed like WH wanted to spend more time together, I found out from a contractor that works for me that she saw WH and OW together in another town. It crossed from personal to my professional life in a big way (it had been difficult to work). Then I found out from another of his employees the same week that others in our field/a close knit community knew about it too.

Well, I decided that I was tired of enabling the A by not telling his family when they called that WH had moved out and was having an A. I finally told his sister-in-law what was going on and she was going to share this with his brother.

Apparently, WH is livid and is telling his sister that he cannot believe I betrayed him like that, how hurt he is etc., that I've done irreparable damage.

I am not widely advertising this thing, but I did feel as if he was not experiencing any consequences for his actions because I was implicitly covering for him when his family called. I felt like I was helping enable the A by keeping it so quiet.

What are others thoughts on exposing the A?

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: unsureheart ]</small>

I think you owe it to everyone to be open and honest. I know many a WS get mad as heck when this happens, but deep down, they know it's the truth... natural consequences are like that. I sometimes suspect that when they rage on after "exposure", they're really just feeling their inner conflict coming up to the surface... and in the end, they're mad at themselves, since the whole mess could have been avoided by them making better choices in their life.

I see this with my WW... when I just recently "outed" her on d-day #3, she was really, really mad - as I learned through IC/MC. BUT... she could DO something about it, such as file for Dv, or rage at me... Has she? Not as far as I know on the first, and she's being very good respecting my NC request on the second. A person with a guilty conscience knows the real score deep down.

I know the Divorce Busting folks are very split also on telling / confronting. A lot of them say "no" because you want to portray detachment. BUT... I think it also enables, and for the BS, it becomes a LB$ drain in itself, knowing some facts, but being forced to hold them in... holding crappy stuff inside tends to eat away at us, eventually resulting in nasty stuff.

My personal preference is to tell, but in as a respectful way as possible. I think cerri was the one who pointed out that the rules of POJA aren't valid when an A is "secret" still, and the BS is entitled to "out it", even though it does appear to be a LB on the surface.

Geez! For some reason your WH's remarks have irked me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Others have said that exposing it in any way can backfire/be a huge LB? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMO, there are LBer's that just can't be avoided.

Sort of like there is certain pain that one goes through in a necessary medical procedure.

FWIW, it's probably a LB'er to him that YOU know. It's probably a LB'er that you want him to stop.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Apparently, WH is livid and is telling his sister that he cannot believe I betrayed him like that, how hurt he is etc., that I've done irreparable damage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not trying to bad-mouth your WH here, but speaking in general terms.

Where in the [censored] do WS's get off with these comments? Everyone of them knew there was a risk of getting caught, being exposed, losing everything they have including friends, etc. In reality, in certain circumstances, they risk their life! But they consciously decide that it is worth the risk, then want to b!tch because THEY lost!

They agree to the risks associated with having an A. The odds are against them from the start and they KNOW it!

They don't have a right to b!tch about a thing.

He feels betrayed? What? YOU betrayed HIM?

Although a lot of WS's complain, I truly think that deep down they are disgusted within THEMSELVES. They just try to transfer it to us.

My thoughts on exposing an A is this: Even if its not an A directly with me, I'll do my darndest to get it out in the open. I may have to use a little common sense and be cautious about how I do it, but I will do it nonetheless.

Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Can't change that.

HCII

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: hcii ]</small>

I wanted to put a link to Cerri's two recent posts here on GQII. They are very good.

Cerri's posts on outing the affair and on what lovebusters are

From my experience confronting the OP is important and it does not matter if the WS gets upset.

But, it is important for the BS to keep their contact with the OP minimal. Usually, any further contact by the BS is simply giving the OP too much power in the marriage.

Harley also says to send the OP a copy of the Plan B letter if it comes to that.

From my

I can definitely understand your situation. Mine was a little different, his family knew before I did, but friends of his did not. Once I found out, I told everyone.

there are pros and cons with this, I truly hope his family will confront him and tell him what he is doing is wrong. But in my situation, blood has become thicker than mud, and they support him. Be prepared either way.

Also, with telling other 3rd parties, be prepared for everyone to give you their advice and always asking what is going one, it can be a pain!!

I cannot believe that he made the comment that you betrayed him, that is his angry foggy state talking. You are not wrong with what you did. In my opinion, we married in front of family and friends, and it was the happiest day of my life. I think they deserve to know the truth, sooner or later they will probably find out anyway.

UH ,

Define and know your purpose. As long as the reason to tell is not vindictive, then you have that right. The WS is just babbling when they insinuate that the BS has now ruined the chances for recovery.

Don't worry many of us got those lines. When the WS told me, I told him don't worry he blew his chances a long time before so now what??!? I called his stupid bluff every chance I got. Eventually they ran out of steam (that OW is not very creative with her mouth, just plain ol foul!). They couldn't come up with good enough reasons so I got strong enough to laugh at their stupid excuses directly in their face.

I mean, even the time the OW called me at 11pm to tell me she was prego2, the first thing out of my mouth was, why tell me? I didn't get you pregnant. Tell YOUR H. She was floored. Didn't respond for a minute. I was sooo angry that I waited then hung up on her. Now you know how PBR got her name! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So tell who you feel you need to. I would preface it with a statement that you are taking them into your confidence and set a few ground rules. I told those around me different levels of the sitx. This included my boss, workmates, staff, parents (both sides), relatives, school, daycare, friends, his bosses, neighbors, etc. Now I need to clarify that I told that many because the OW threatened to come and take my child and have me thrown in jail. So I was afraid for my child's safety. Heck I even told one of her neighbors. LOL!!! Her neighbor was very supportive. Now the reason for that one was I had to deliver some paperwork to the WS and his truck was at OW's house...... so I had one of the neighbors watch out for me when I put the docs in his truck.

Now I did let those I told to please respect my decisions. I knew they would not all agree but before I disclosed anything, I got their commitment on their support.

It is all an iffy thing.

Hope this helps.

L.

At this point of time in my life, I really do not know if exposing the A to even BS is a good idea, Leave alone to the OP.

To cut my story short, I disclosed my two incidences of casual sexual encounters while being away from place of residence in 1981 & 1989 to my BS on 21 May 2000. Ever since then, my life has been a miserable one. Even my BS is going on roller coaster road. At time my BS mentions may be it would have been better if I did not disclose these.

I have no contact with the OW and extremely repentent about these incidents. But have not been able to regain my BS' trust till date. She too is going through extreme mental stress since then but refuses to seek any professional help. Instead she wants to play the Investigator role.

So I have very serious reservation about exposing to OP. Do you think, we have any chance to rebuild our marriage? I am almost giving up hope and loosing all my strength to rebuild.

Can someone help?

ASH
WH-54, BS-52
M-27Y
D-26Y & S-22Y

I was find after d-day#1 with not exposing it to anyone except a few very close friends. I knew I had to think for myself and didn't need all the unwanted advice from everyone. It was my life so it had to be my choices on what to do.
However, d-day #2 (5 months later) when I truly believed we had been working hard on our marriage I found out after 6 weeks of trying he had been seeing OW all the time (co-worker) I had to go to plan B and expose everything. He had his choice to keep the secret if he could be honest and really work to get us back (plan A)
Exposing it after d-#2 has been the best thing after the 2nd time around. He now said he will quit his job and move out of town to get away from her so we can start over (co-worker) Of course this will be a long process before I jump into the move. I have told him no contact until the end of his last day of work (to see if he really will quit) and then meetings once a week until I decide different. He admitted to me that if I hadn't kicked him out and exposed the affair he would have continued on and on and on. He had the best of both worlds. I was fulfilling his nuturing needs and the OW was fulfilling his emotional (sexual)needs. This forced him to make a choice and finally start lifting the fog and realize the impact of what he had done.
So, don't rush in to telling the world as you really will get too much advice and neeed to make your own choices, not what everyone else thinks you should do. You are a stronger person if d-day #2 happens to deal with making decisions alot better and not listen to anyones advice and do what you need to do, not what they think you should do.

Married 30 years
2 children - 28 and 26 (won't speak to father) Lied to them also so they also feel betrayed.

unsure - the statement that your H would feel betrayed. What in the heck did he do to you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Counseling with the Harleys, the truth must be told. To live with a lie, and not tell your family, is wrong. They need to know why you are the way you are, sad, crying, etc. There should be no hurt from your H, hey he is the one who committed adultery, not you. Let him take and do what he wants. If he gets all mad, angry, and ballistic, leave him. Let him figure it out for himself that he was the one who committed sin. He is the one who betrayed, and he is the one that God is looking!

The honesty truth needs to be exposed, for proper reconcillation. Honest measures need to be exposed for your health. He might have contacted aids, std. If you were to reconcile this is a must. My WH didn't tell me he had sex with the OW till 6 months later. We had sex inbetween, and this irritated me to no end. My WH (STBX) didn't even the courtesy, thoughtfulness, care, to tell me he was physical with her, and he better be tested.

Honey, there are a lot of issues to think about. Start looking for a lawyer, and many lawyers are setting up free seminars, that you can go to. I just went to a free 1/2 talk with a lawyer. Call around, they are out there. Ask questions, and with him being the betrayed spouse, you will automatically get more in the settlement.

You don't even know how much money he spent. You don't know if he and her have their own account. I found this out with my WH. There are so many lies, and lies will destroy you. They will destroy the trust you once had. I know, my WH lied, and lied, and lied . His OW called me and lied to me big time, and manipulated me with suicide. As if I should of not cared. But I showed her compassion, and she basically slapped me in the face with her words. It was a joke on her part.

Don't be drawn into his sick cycle. Put the affair on the table, and let the cards play as they should be. Good Luck!!!!

My mother, and his mother were very glad I told them. My WH didn't want me to tell anyone. Told me to keep it a secret. Counseling with the Harleys, they said, I can't let him do this, it is eating the betrayed person up, you need to have someone to talk to. So I did, and WH didn't like it. He still says to me, why don't you broadcast it on the billboards. THat is his problem, I know that I am a wonderful woman, and loving, mother, a good wife, and a wonderful christian. He has to deal with his adultery, lies, and sin.

JR, hcii, zorweb, GC, Orchid, Ash, Still confused, and cry2much --- Many thanks for your thoughts. I don't know how to do the quote/cut and past thing to respond individually to your comments, but I have another question and some observations.

I would view telling his family and possibly his boss as protecting myself. I thought about this a lot and do not want to do this out of being vindictive.

What are the thoughts about telling an employer? I have a unique (well probably not all that unique situation) where I do not work in the same office as my WH and OW (he's her boss/she's employee), but I do work in the same field in a very small work community/everybody knows everybody. After first d-day I would not have revealed this to the boss of my WH. Second d-day I feel differently because I had to hear about contact/inappropriate behavior/lying from a work associate/contractor in another part of the state. It has, for me, crossed the line from personal to professional. I am having difficulty getting my work done and am embarrassed by the whole situation.

I would not do this lightly. If my WH were to lose his job as a result of this, we would both suffer financially and WH's self-esteem would be greatly damaged.

I believe that WH runs a great risk right now from others telling his boss. WH's other employees are starting to see how this situation hurts their organization and people outside the organization are starting to comment.

I really struggle with this, as it sounds like all of you did too with whether to tell family or not. Does Harley have a specific recommendation for the employer situation specifically?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>WH is livid and is telling his sister that he cannot believe I betrayed him like that, how hurt he is etc., that I've done irreparable damage.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU betrayed HIM?!?!? Ooooh, that's rich. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Seems he has selective memory.

(Everyone here has put in some good comments, but I couldn't hold back joining in. Sorry...I am all for working things out...but continued contact, to me, is a slap in the face and the utmost disrespect...someone who does it to their BS, deserves NO conveniences/courtesies whatsoever!)

Well, I was fortunate enough to get on with the Harleys at their Monday radio show and explain my problem/ask my question.

Harley says that "short of have the story on the evening news" he firmly believes in exposing the A, especially family and in the case of a work situation, the employer. Now, how it is done is the trickier part.

As I am being advised to go to plan B shortly, Harley advised that I should inform my employer, his employer and his family about my plan B and no contact with WH in any capacity until he ends contact with OW at the time I go to plan B.

I am scared to go to plan B, but don't see a whole lot of choices. WH acknowledges my changes, "thinks I've changed for the better", "considers me his best friend", "cannot imagine life without me", BUT cannot recommit to our marriage and give up contact with the OW <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Reveal it all. Are you kidding? Everyone should know that knows you and the all the parties involved. You find out exactly where everybody is on this thing. Humiliate him? Her?? Oh please!! How about all the humiliation you are suffering because of this?? Let's see, I am about a month from D DAY. In the first 5 minutes I found out, I picked up the phone and made him call his mother to tell her - now, I did this because I am a good daughter in law in her eyes and I know she loves me. I did this because I felt like he had made a very serious error in judgement and he has a good relationship with his mother. I felt at this time that he needed the guidance and support of her to help make the right decisions since he wasn't capable of making them on his own, and at this point, I was not an objective party. Why would he listen to me? He was in fog! He was thinking about LEAVING me!!

Now, he is a jazz musician and I hadn't been going to any of his gigs, but the first thing I did was contact ALL the bandleaders he played with and his fellow sidemen's wives and revealed it ALL. Went to his gigs (now) and explained to everyone, (in a non vindictive manner) why some strange girl had been going to all of his gigs, but not me. They thought they had some big secret going on?!? Everybody knew. Now, people come up to him and say, good to know your WIFE is coming instead of a WANNA BE GF ... blows him away. He thought it was all so secret. Please. At first he was upset, but hey, as far as I am concerned, this was a chance he took. What if he was going to leave me for her, which is a thought that he entertained? Then everybody would know anyway! Not only do I feel like it throws sunshine on the vampires, but I think it makes people be on the alert for suspicious behavior which makes my ability to track him just a little bit better. Sorry, but until I get complete trust back, I want people to know what's happening so I know what's going on.

He is okay with it now. He now knows that people know; knows who the OW is; would not DARE be seen with her again; and maintains the very image of propriety on the road. Good. That's what I want. While we build our relationship back up - we need to have as much non contact and love towards EACH other as possible. This is a penalty that cheaters pay. Other people find out.