Hi all, just really need to vent. My H (WH) is still continuing to talk to and see OP, maybe its not sexual, maybe it is, i really don't know. I know I CANT STAND IT. I want to LB, in fact i want to put out an ultimatum that its time to stop now or never, because im done. Things are inproving, as long as i do everything he wants, don't call to much, ect. On his side, he is trying to meet my needs. He is spending tons of time with our children, went out to breakfast with my family, calls and tells me he loves me, trying to talk to me. Better relationship all around. But she is still there, i know it. He says he doesn't love her anymore, doesn't tell her that he does, and she doesn't tell him, But, he did lie, and lie and lie before so OH HE!!!!! i don't know what is wrong with me. I guess one of those days CRAP, I just feel like out of respect for the pain and suffering he has caused me stop it all is that to much to ask. He says he will eventually, but when, I feel like as long as she is there stroking his what ever then no matter how hard i am working its not very effective, anyone agree or disagree HELP

In answer to the title of your post "Yes I do think it is disrespectful"!!!!

I have said this a number of times on these boards - as a WS, when my H found out about the A, I could not, would not, never ever, have continued contact with OM. Apart from anything else he would not have stood for it, but to continuing deliberately hurting him in such a cruel fashion would have been too much for me. It is truly beyond me that WS can be so thoughtless and selfish. I am sorry you have to continue living like this.

I really am no expert (feel I've made enough mess of my own M here), and am sure some people will be better placed to give you advice, but this does sound like someone fence-sitting/cake eating. Does he work with her, or is there a particular reason he continues to see her other than he's "not ready yet" to give her up? If he says he loves you and by the tone of your thread is trying to make things better (spending more time with the family, meeting your needs etc.), then surely this behaviour is not acceptable.

As I say, I don't know much really, but always feel very strongly and angry about WS who stay in contact with OP. IMHO it is very disrespectful.

Stay strong.

Lisa

<small>[ October 07, 2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Disrespectful??? My IC and the marriage counsellor my H and I went to see both described his ongoing contact with FOW and his attempt to keep a "friendship" with her as "blatant emotional abuse and battery." The MC, in front of my FWH, told me in so many words that I would be "completely insane to ever trust him again", and advised me to divorce him forthwith. Shocked his socks off.....

As a former WS I can say that it is not only disrespectful to continue contact with OW, it is emotionally abusive. I will NEVER contact the OM and understand that if I did, that itself would be so painful for my H that he could not bear it. Your H needs to start respecting you and the only way he can do that is for you to let him know how much it pains you for him to continue contact with OW. Is he truly remorseful for his actions? I pray that you will find strength to deal with this.

Yes very direspectful,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Things are inproving, as long as i do everything he wants, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must be the only one left on this planet that cant understand this way of thinking, your H has the A and is still in contact and you have to do everything he want's? What are you doing for yourself? Show him that you are prepared to do what ever you need to do, dont give him that shoulder of your's to lean on.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but for me I had make my wife understand that divorce was a real possibilty in our future before my W would make any attemped at moving ahead with our M.

I never asked my W for a divorce, but I asked if she wanted one, and I also started to talk about what we needed to do for the kid's, the house, our asset's, and she finally realized I was serious.

Are you in counceling?

na2002 - I am the betrayed spouse, and my WH (stbx) continued his blatant talk with the OW, in our home, in the bathroom and on and on. We were counseling with the Harleys, and he would tell Jennifer Harley, yes, he is almost done talking with the OW, and said he would counsel with us the next time. Jennifer cancelled talking with him, cause he was still engaging in conversation with the OW, everyday, for 6-8 hours and said she would not talk until he quit the conversation. Also, it is disrespect, unthoughtfulness, uncaring, and selfish. He would counsel with Jennifer, and then later that day talk to the OW. So there was never a real effort for counseling.

Also, you need to tell him to get out. I tried with my WH, said either me or her. And if I had to do it over again, I would of thrown his stuff out and said get the h*ll out of here. It hurt like heck to hear him talk to his OW all the time, the kids saw it, and he was not home much. Would talk in his service truck to her too.

You need to lay the law down, don't be a doormat for your WH. I became a doormat, my WH says I wasn't, but I would do anything for him. His mother, kids, told me to stop, stop babying him, and I fell for the sweetness. Now I realize it was control, power, emotional abuse, and unthoughtfulness.

Don't let him be disrespectful. If he loves you and you give him the ultimatum of no more contact and you can stay, or leave. Let it be that way.

Good luck, look at yourself in this situation, quit looking at him. He has committed adultery, let him be, and look at yourself. There is more to life than a liar.

Continued contact is the most disrespectful part of any A. If I had to do it over again I would have issued an ultimatum immediately but I did not have enough info, brains, or guts to do it.

I would never put myself through this hell again, I would have gone straight to plan B (in hindsight).

Replaced

Wow,

Thank you all for responding, I was beginning to feel like i was the only one out here, who was having trouble like this. We had decided, (He did) that he would be completely done with her by labor day, as you can tell its still on going and we are well past that, now he says she is moving away, if i can just be patient a little longer. WELL, i am to the point that i don't even know if or when i will get over this night mare. I am glad that he seems to be doing more things for me and our family, however, this one thing is SO BIG that i can't seem to get over it. If he really loved me than he should be able to see how much this is hurting me and stop. I have asked his and his answer is but it hurts me to stop so you are saying you happiness is more important than mine. I would tell anyone else that their husband is being manipulative and mean spirited. Boy life is a lot harder to live than it is to do.

Anyway, thank you all for the post, at least now I know im not completely crazy.

NA2002,
his answer is but it hurts me to stop so you are saying you happiness is more important than mine.

And by continuing to talk to her, he is saying that his happiness is more important than your hurt. Did he not understand that he is claiming his own selfishness?

When you are married and want your marriage to be a success, you put your spouse first or do the Policy of Joint Agreement--you don't do anything that your spouse does not ENTHUSIASTICALLY agree to.

The down side of an ultimatum is you have to be prepared for your spouse to choose the option you do not want and having drawn the line in the sand, do you keep the consequence or back down? It's like Plan B, it takes planning and preparedness.

My H continued his A with his co-worker 10 months after he confessed it to me. But he always denied it was going on, both before and after D day. When he or she would end it, the personal contact at work always re-ignited it. My Plan A was 18 months.

Our recovery works now,(since 5/00) because he he doesn't have personal conversations with her, and works with her as little as possible. He is accountable with his time, his passwords and always wears his cell phone. And the affair, including the 4 more months of EA contact after the PA was over was also finished for 3-4 months before my H moved back in (multiple separations, separated 14 out of 21 months, Plan A except for 5 of those months, when I served D papers).

Plan A is a stratedgy to work with an ongoing affair. If you feel you have made the kind of changes within yourself and to meet your H's needs so that he has noticed, then at some point either the A ends or the BS moves to separation and/or Plan B or divorce.

If you feel you have made all the effort you can to restore your marriage, your lovebank is nearly drained and you can move onto an ultimatum and feel no regret at intiating the separation, you can do that.

Oh, and of course your H is showing you disrespect, an affair ALWAYS shows disrespect if not outright cruelty to the BS. It's like the lying, a WS having an affair lies, but neither disrespect or lying are separate issues fromt he affair, it is part of the betrayal of an affair.

<small>[ October 07, 2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

I totally think it's disrespectful, and unfortunately I am going through the same ordeal, although mine doesn't sound as bad as yours. He told her please don't call anymore, and as far as I know, he does not call her, but when she calls him, he talks to her. We went to a new counselor on Friday (we both felt the old counselor wasn't very useful in our particular situation) and the fact that she called on Thursday and he talked to her for half an hour was mentioned in our meeting. (Oh, yeah, I didn't bring it up, she asked when he had last had contact and he told her). Our counselor said that it sounded like he was giving mixed messages "Please don't call, but if you do call, of course I will talk to you..." She said, in order to prove trustworthiness again, he needs to be firm on this - he needs to say, do not call me, and if she does call, and he has already told her not to, that all he has to do is hang up the phone when he hears her voice. He said, that's rude and I don't want to hurt her feelings... The counselor said, at this point, you are already hurting someone's feelings (looking at me) and if you told her not to call and she calls, she is only hurting her own feelings, you have to look within yourself, decide what you want to do, and stick to it. She said that she can't make him not talk to her, but if really wants to show some remorse, continuing to talk to her is not a way to start regaining trust with me. She said that he needs to start showing some real examples of how he can be a trustworthy person with me. Hope that helps.

At this point, I have accepted it all, because they had a two and half hour conversation in front of me on Sept 7 - with the help of this board, I was able to listen to the whole thing, his "I love yous" and his "I miss you" and just bite my tongue, knowing that it was just fog babble. Why? Because he was laying in bed next to me. I can't believe she is accepting it. If the roles were reversed, and he was over at her house telling me (while she was laying in bed with him) that he loved me? No, I don't think I would even listen to *that* particular conversation. Well, and patience has proved to be a virtue in my particular case, because hey, two weeks later, this morning he looked at me, and said, oh my god, I am just now starting to realize what I could have lost. You aren't going to leave me are you??? I rolled my eyes, and said, god, if I was going to kick you to the curb, it would have been two weeks ago during that sappy conversation. He feels embarrassed over it now, that he said all that gooey stuff to her in front of me. Good!! But, you know, I really think he wasn't himself. I could never imagine him being that saccharine to anyone in real life.

Now, he is waking up and coming to realization and non fantasy, but she isn't. So that's where my problem lies.

But that's a different post.

You need to decide within yourself if you can deal with it or not. But I strongly recommend that you decide coolly, and then tell him in a nonangry way how you feel (if you can't deal with it), rather than having it all build up inside and then one day just losing it and throwing his cell phone in the bathtub or something. Do you know what I mean?

Dear Lor Lor and KS

Thank you KS you made me laugh. I know, the other night that woman called my home, oh my G
I wanted to rip her and him to shreds, the gall. Some people have B*lls of steel. I really wanted to trash his stuff, the cell phone first.

Lor Lor,

that is where i am kind of confused. Ihave been plan Aing for almost a year, a year december 18th or so. I have done all i can, and will do. Yet if feel like it has been for naught. Because it hasn't been enough. I am to the point that i don't think i will ever be able to be everything he needs. Although our relationship is 75% better. i am doing all i can - he continues contact. I don't even know where to go from here. I have thought about picking another date say Nov. 1st. and telling him in a non threatening way what i need to continue in this marriage, what do you think, is that a lb. Probably, but i can't do this forever. Let me know what you think.

NOBODY can fulfill 100% of another person's needs - well, maybe they can, but only if by doing so they are fulfilling 100% of their needs at the same time. Odds are against that, but you understand me.

So don't throw all that burden on yourself. Are you going through any type of counseling at all? Has he agreed to go to a relationship counselor? It doesn't sound like it, or he is not trying very hard to build the relationship back up around you guys.

Hi Not Again - This part has to be the worst part of an A for the BS. We went through many months of continued contact with the OW. It positively turned my stomach more times than I can count. But by the time my FWH was starting to sound like your is (telling you that he loves you and such) I felt that enough was enough. What I did was ask him very nicely to stop contacting her. He actually wound up with about 5 days to do it, but he did not think that was long enough. (?! I wondered how long does it take to make a phone call? OW lives far, far away and I didn't know about MB and NC LETTERS at that time.) In any case, I picked a good time, as my FWH was actually very receptive. He did agree to do it, and did actually do it. Took him 4 of the 5 days to gear up for it, though.

I was surprised that when MC asked him how it felt to tell her no more contact, his response was "relieved." (I have just seen someone say the same thing on these boards within the last week, I think.) Unfortunately, it was not a clean break, with all the contact I know of originating by my FWH and OW just responding. It has been hard for my FWH to go cold turkey, as they have been friends forever. But I do think that his initial NC call was what got her to thinking that it's time to move on with her life. I do believe that now there truly is no contact.

How long has it been since D-Day? You have to be able to decide at some point that enough is enough if he's not going to decide it on his own. I think most times they need help deciding it's gone on long enough. I wouldn't count on her moving away as being a deterrent to the A - many, many A's are conducted while the OP is far away. Those are particularly nasty, in fact, because there is so much fantasy built up in them - it's all unreal, but oh so enjoyable. His "it hurts me to stop" is not acceptable. You cannot be M and continue to have an OP and expect your M to work. In a M, your spouse must be your first consideration.

You will need to decide what your next step will be if he will not discontinue contact. I realized after the fact that I had no actual plan in case my FWH would not go with NC. I was lucky he was in agreement. He may not be acting mean-spirited intentionally, but he needs to understand that he can only have one of you. There is no room for that type of friendship within a M. You might want to ask him how he'd feel if the situation was reversed if you haven't already. (However, that was my FWH's least favorite question - he HATED to think of things that way. But I think it may work with some WSs.

MT

hi notagain...was reading your posts, and i too have the same problem. WH is on the computer everyday with the OW. She is planning a viist here this month, whcih WH says he will be seeing her then. It sickens me when i know they are chatting with one another. Looks like i am headed for Plan B...take care..A/C0810

Yes IMHO, continued contact is disrespectful not just to the BS but all who are against the A. Right to the top!

In my case the WS came home in April 2001. Yet the OW claimed prego 2 and 3, June 2001 and August 2001! Now how can that be? Hm.... even the Ws wondered saying that he had not been with her!!! Oh well. He was still in communication with the OW so each time contact was uncovered.... out he went. This nutty scenario went on for 10 months! Each time he was rendered homeless. Funny thing.... ow opened up her home and legs but he refused. Hm...... would even resort to sleeping in his truck because he was too proud to go to any of his relatives (including his parents).

Now from my side the stakes (requirements to be allowed back home) got higher and higher.... Told him ahead of time that each time would be harder and it was. Well that put most of the work on him and less on me. I had a place to live, I was working..... my life was definitely more stable than his and I was not dealing with a psyco OW. He was..... better him than me. Because I had set as my boundary the fact that the OW must be out of MY life and all that I lived with.

Now the OW was no longer a cherished commodity. In fact association with her made him stink.... so he had to decide be with a stinky ow or back with his family.

The turning point for me was getting the point emotionally where I was able to identify my boundaries and implement them.

L.

notagain,

I too agree that continued contact is a form of slow-motion murder.

It's horrible! I really don't think they understand how painful it is.

-AD

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Once again this board has saved my sanity.

Thank you all for your imput. I plan on talking this weekend so keep me in your prayers. I want this over, i am finished with it all. IF he loves her so much he is willing to give it all up for her, maybe he should go go go. Plan B in the offing, I am working on a letter so if any of you have any suggestions. He has said repeatedly, when i ask him to stop with her that, When i ask him to have NC and to end it with her it is pushing him toward her. He says that the only thing that is going to end our marrage is me. I am the only thing that is standing between us. I think he wants to continue with this arrangement for ever. Cake eating is fun, its the dishes that are crap. any suggestions on how to approach this greatly appreciated. When ever i bring it up he says. You don't believe me, (duh) and so we are back to square one. I bet this has happened 10 times in a year. It always makes me so mad. Emotional blackmail. Manipulative SOB. Sometimes i can not believe this is the man i married.

Dear AD, and C2M

I am sorry that you are in my shoes, i feel like a crazy person, today i will, tomorrow, who knows. I wish i could just make up my mind and stick to it. I feel like he gives me just enough hope to keep me around, so he can blame me if, or when i do something he doesn't like, back to square one. IM SO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> at myself. Where did this person i have become, come from. Maybe he isn't the only one who has encounter aliens <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />