I haven't been here in a very long time, but that certainly doesn't mean this board hasn't been on my mind. I get little "niggles" in my head each week reminding me how much this place helped me and how I grew stronger and happier with the help from everyone here.

For all you new-comers, the only advice I can give you is to read and post as much as you like. And when someone who has been through the pain of infidelity offers you advice, listen to it. More times than not, they are right. They've been here using the MB tools for a long time and they know what works and what doesn't. It's been my experience that this place is a wealth of information for creating happier and healthier relationship and a happier and healthier you. As Nike says - Just Do It!

Now for my update - Oh dear...where to start?

As you may or may not recall, H started his affair 3 months after we were married. I didn't find out until October of 2001. The usual emotions kicked in - pain, suicidal thoughts, loss of weight, sleepless nights, major depression, et al. To put it mildly, it sucked.

I got myself into counselling and found the MB site. I began to read every post I could find and ask advice from the wise ones. The advice I received was, indeed, priceless. The support, encouragement and friendship was welcome at a time when I felt I couldn't go on.

I Plan A'd from the start. It took a few months for it to sink in that Plan A was for *me*, but I'm sure that's a common hurdle to jump! Once I realised that it was for me, to make myself a better person and realise my own potential for healing and being happy, I began to soar.

And soar I did! In fact, I flew straight to the court house to file for divorce. I realise that the point of MB is BUILD marriages, but in my particular situation, I couldn't take the pain anymore. I went Plan B and went to it FAST and HARD! In my case, Plan B worked - my WH came crawling on hands and knees begging to come back. He said that he had been planning to buy me the engagement ring that I never had, was going to ask me to marry him all over again and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. Let me tell you, when that fog lifted, it was like a gale force wind shot in and blew it away in seconds.

WH said that he made a huge mistake - was caught up in a fantasy world and thought that his OW was the woman of his dreams. He admitted he was wrong, said he never loved her, said she was horrible and manipulative and he wanted nothing to do with her. He said he missed me and loved me and couldn't believe he was so stupid as to leave me behind the way he did.

Now, bear in mind that these are the words I had waited so long to hear. I can't even tell you how many times I prayed and begged for him to come back to me. The months I spent waiting for him and standing by him being the ultimate door mat while he had his cake and ate it too. But when the day finally came - guess what? I didn't want it.

I stared at him and listened to him as he lay on the floor begging me to take him back. And the only thing I felt was numb. I had no love left. I had no feelings of regret or remorse. I had no sympathy. I had no desire to say "ok, let's work on it." I was done. I had been sh*t on for so long that I had lost all respect and love for that man and God himself couldn't have squeezed another iota out of me. (I often wonder if I Plan A'd too long, but I'm sure that's another thread!)

It was a tough few months after that. WH seemed to be going through everything I was going through before. He was calling me crying all night. He went into a major depression. He went crying to all our friends and family. Unfortunately, the only person who helped him out was me. Everyone else just looked at him and said "What did you expect? You brought this all on yourself. We all told you she wouldn't wait for you forever and now she's gone. You got what you deserved".

I suppose, in a way, I still had feelings for him, but it was more pity than anything else. The guy was hurting and going through it pretty bad. I certainly wasn't about to do what he did to me and ignore him. So I kept my mobile next to the bed at night in case he needed to talk. I met with him for coffee and tried to listen and help him through it. I offered to go to counselling with him as a friend. I told him I would always be his friend and never abandon him the way everyone else seemed to. He couldn't quite believe that I was being so supportive despite not wanting him back, but as I've read on here a thousand times and as I've always said...I want to look in the mirror 10 years from now and be proud of what I did and who I am. To abandon him when he needed someone the most simply wouldn't be right. So I stood by him, gave him a shoulder to cry on, lifted him up when he fell and continued with the divorce.

Maybe I was treading on dangerous ground by doing that. Maybe I was being a sucker once again. Who knows. All I know is I did what I felt was right in my heart. Yes, he was my husband who had cheated on me for a year. Yes he left me in a pool of depression and tears. Yes he ignored me when I needed to talk. But two wrongs don't make a right and I certainly wasn't going to do the "revenge" thing.

I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of the way I handled everything and I'm proud to say that my divorce was final a week ago. I'm also proud to say that my Ex-H and I are still friends and get together once a week to catch up on news and gossip and have a laugh.

But the thing I am most of proud of is what I learned. I learned how to treat your spouse/parnter. I learned that respect is the key. I learned that I deserve the best. I learned that it's okay to take responsibility for my own mistakes and that I can not repeat them in the future. I read *so many* books on relationships (most recommended by people on these boards) and found them to be worth their weight in gold.

I am now the proud owner of the most fulfilling, rewarding and happy relationship I've ever had in my life. I met my new man in March. Obviously, I wasn't looking for a new relationship. It was the absolute last thing on my mind. I had already started divorce proceedings and my Ex-H was hitting rock bottom. So on top of being preoccupied with all that, along came Mr. Wow. It didn't hit me at first that he was partner material. We just met through mutual friends and got along really well. I figured I had made a new friend and that was fine by me.

But feelings, being what they are, are unpredictable. I had to admit to myself that I fancied this guy. He knew my situation - knew that I was going through a divorce and respected that I wanted to take it slow. He opened a huge door for me to leave by if I felt I had to. He kept a respectful distance when Ex-H and I had divorce things to settle and he supported me when it got to be too much.

Knowing what I know about Emotional Needs, I kept a sharp eye on myself and my feelings. I had to make sure he wasn't just filling a void and causing me to gush with the joy of my EN's being met. We took it very slow and I was very cautious.

We have been living together now for a few months (so much for taking it slow) and I am the happiest I have ever been in my life. I thought I had reached the height of happiness on my own - until I met him. He completes me. He never talks down to me. He listens when I talk. He laughs at my stupid jokes. He tells me every day that I'm beautiful and gorgeous and intelligent. We do things together on the weekends. We talk until the wee hours of the night. The feelings I have about this relationship are stronger than I've ever felt. And we don't argue! Hurrah! If there is a decision to be made, we do it by compromise and talking. If either of us feels cheated in a decision, we say so with respect and without harsh words. We have been seeing each other since the end of March and are going from strength to strength. The best part? I've got the blessing of all my family and friends. We are told, even by strangers, that we are the happiest and most perfect couple anyone has seen. It's an odd feeling, but we're loving it. We feel it and it shows!

So I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to everyone here. When I needed a kick up the butt, people like Bramblerose and Resilient were there to kick away! (there are so many others to mention, but I fear I'm using up enough space already!) When I needed a shoulder to cry on, everyone here gave it to me. When I felt like I couldn't Plan A anymore, I would post and immediately get the support and advice I needed. I truly believe that everything happens for a reason. If you can't see it now, you will soon. I thought, in the beginning that I wouldn't get through this and I would never be good enough for anyone; not even myself.

Time *does* heal all wounds. We are all responsible for our own happiness. We all have the power. And we can all do it. I decided to post my update hoping that it will help some of the people who are fresh from finding out about their spouse's affair. Or maybe you've been here a while and don't know what else to do. All I can say is, don't look for the "quick fix". It's a long hard road you're on. Read, learn and practice and you WILL get through it.

I certainly did!

Right, now I'm off to read some posts and see how everyone is doing.

Thank you, once again, from the bottom of my healed and happy heart. I could not have done this without any of you.

lots and lots of love
venusenvy

PS - I'm STILL Plan A'ing!!!!

Bravo, Venus! I am thrilled at the outcome of your saga. After all you went through, you certainly deserve some happiness. And your X deserves just what he got, a manipulative OW. Glad to see you back and hope you stay around for awhile.

VE,

Wow! A blast from the past!

It's great to hear that you're doing so well... but then again, it's a great certainty when you reclaim yourself, and follow through with the MB principles as part of your life... whether it saves your M or not is almost secondary, I think. It's no surprise to me that even Dr.Harley admits that not every M SHOULD be saved. Your resolve seems to say that you picked what was best for you - a great lesson for everyone.

Hello Venus

Your post brought a tear to my eye - that you could give so much to someone who hurt you so badly, still retain your dignity and soul, and come out the other side a better person with a lovely new man is inspiring for me. It makes me want to try harder to be a better person.

Thank you for sharing your story, and I wish you well with your new love and life.

Lisa

Thanks JR, ML and Lisa! Good to see some familiar names and get updated on everyone. I've been trawling through the posts here and see some good results and some bad.

You're absolutely right, JR, and that's an important point I forgot to make. The MB principles aren't just for marriages in trouble. They are for LIFE! Regardless of whether or not someone is in a relationship, they can be practiced and kept. I often use the what I've learned from MB in all aspects of my life and all of my relationships; be it with my parents, friends or with my partner.

I remember feeling a bit disgruntled in the early stages of my situation. I read so many stories about people who had separated or divorced and thought "hang on minute! this stuff won't work to get my husband back and make our marriage better! Why am I bothering?" It took me a while to realise that MB *does* work. No, it didn't make my marriage better, but that was *my* choice and was a decision I came to on my own and based on my heart and head working together.

I even joke about it now and say that my husband did me a favour by having an A. I truly believe that, and have even told him so. To get to a place where I'm so happy with myself is a dream come true.

The sad part is, he is still with his OW - by his own admission, because he's got no other options. He doesn't even know if he loves her. He just stays with her for the sake of having someone. Very sad. But hey - she knows this, she carries on with him, so I guess they are creating their own hell, in a way. But hey - not my problem anymore! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm going to keep reading here and checking up on people and offering advice where I can give it. I wish you all the best in your situations. My thoughts have always been with everyone on these boards.

love,
VE

ps - Hi Lisa! (waving from Bristol!)

Hi V_E.

It's good to see that your life now is a happier one than the one from last year and the beginning of this year.

<small>[ October 09, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Dear Venus,
I am glad you are happy.

Now, wet blanket, or at least devils' advocate, time.

I recall posting to you when you had started dating, before you were divorced. I wonder if you hadn't found Mr. Wow if you wouldn't have been more likely to try to reconcile with your WS? It's easier to turn away a spouse when you've got another person who is meeting your needs.

But then, when I found my Mr. Wow, I let him go and stopped my divorcing actions to try again with my FWS, I've ended up with a happy, loving marriage and my family together, and my former Mr. Wow has since married and divorced again.

No doubt that colors my perception!

You have moved quickly into this new relationship, but like any OM, he dated a woman who was married. And, truly after dealing with a WS, nearly anyone can seem nice.

I do realize your marriage never got a good start and perhaps there was nothing to build on, but you made that decision while in another relationship.

I have to point out, according to MarriageBuilders, separated & divorcing is still being married, which means not available for dating, for the BS as well as the WS. And, I believe that as well, certainly, I learned it the hard way.

I do wish you the best in your life and hope the outcome is what you hope.

Hi Lor,

Thanks for your reply.

Firstly, let me say that you haven't written anything I hadn't already thought about myself. Believe me, I didn't jump into a new relationship without analysing every single aspect of it, my feelings, the new man, the husband, all of it.

At the end of the day, I had to come to some pretty difficult decisions, and believe me, I don't make decisions easily. I weighed every pro and con there was going. Also, I had decided to divorce *before* I met Mr. Wow. That decision was kept a closely guarded secret by myself as I didn't want anyone to influence the decision in any way. By the time I met Mr Wow, the papers were filed. No one knew I was filing them. No one counselled me on it. I thought about it for a very long time and decided it was the right thing to do *for me*.

So yes, technically, I was married when I met the new man. But in my mind and in my heart, I was on my way to being divorced. Perhaps in the eyes of God, it was wrong. But religion, being a personal choice, didn't enter into it for me. I was done with my marriage and with my husband. His actions, behaviours, the way he treated me and others around him added up to a person who I felt was someone I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with. He walked away from me, his family, his friends and nearly his own life and for what? He lied to everyone around him and turned into scheming toe-rag. To be honest, not much has changed. We still get together on friendly basis, and each time we do, I try to imagine spending my life with him and I JUST CAN'T see it.

Every single day I check in with myself. I stop and ask myself if I'm where I want to be. I ask myself if I'm happy and with the person I want to be with. The answer is always yes. I felt such relief when I divorced. It was right FOR ME. I had been on a "marriage saving crusade" for so long that I never really stopped and asked myself if I even liked my husband anymore. And believe me, when that realisation hit me, it hit me hard and ruthlessly. It hurt when I realised that. I cried and panicked because suddenly it occurred to me that all my efforts to save my marriage had been for nothing. Not because I didn't get my husband back - I very well could have had him back. It was useless because I never asked myself that one single question - Did I make a mistake and marry the wrong person? The answer was yes. I had married the wrong person. He was emotionally abusive throughout our relationship and I was just too stupid and co-dependent to realise it.

But in so many ways, it wasn't a waste of time. I learned so much and I will never forget what I learned. I gained valuable information about self-respect, dignity, and being responsible for my own actions and words. I learned that I deserved better and didn't deserved to be talked down to and ignored. I lived that way for 4 years and when his affair started, it got even worse.

As for my new man dating a married woman - that was, of course, talked about before we agreed to see each other romantically. As I said before, he left a door wide open for me to leave by. He said from day one that if I ever changed my mind, he would step away and let me do what I felt was right. I never had much of a marriage, nor did I ever really *feel* married in my heart which is why I took a chance with the new guy. I felt single the minute my ex walked out the door to be with his OW.

Another eye-opener for me, recently, is what my closest friends and family have been saying to me. It turns out that no one ever really liked my ex. This was certainly news to me! I've heard endless things like "we knew it wouldn't last" "you were always too good for him" "I never liked him" "I wondered why you were marrying him" "you lost yourself when you met him" "it's nice to have you back" "you seem so much more happy and at ease now that he's not around" and my mother even went so far as to say that she wanted to beg on her hands and knees for me not to marry him. Funny thing is, all these things they have said were things I said to myself.

So yeah, I made a mistake. I married someone I shouldn't have married. I have since learned from that mistake. I have felt the pain, cried the tears, sought help, dug deep into my heart and soul to find answers and I am now the happiest I have ever been in my life.

I realise that divorce isn't a word in a lot of peoples vocabulary. I understand that to some it's not an option. But for me, in my situation and for my own happiness, it was. I did it. I'm glad I did it. And I'm over the moon with myself and my life.

Again, thank you for your reply and for wishing me well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

love,
VE

Venus,
I have real worry & concern for BS who start to date during separation before divorce, because if there is any hope of reconciliation, that usually kills it. And that's mainly what my post to you was about.

I was into the divorce process myself after an 18 month Plan A as the BS when I started to date a male friend. And, since my H & I reconciled, it is something that I realize really skewed things, gave my H & I both all the issues of being both WS & BS and nearly made the reconciliation impossible. But, H & I have a different relationship than you describe yours, married now 19 1/2 years, 2 kids, we love each other and make a good partnership. The affair(s) were a bad patch in a pretty good marriage between compatible people.

You obviously thought out your choices, and I'm glad you expanded your post. It is your life, your decisions.

A new relationship while separated or divorcing does change one's perception of one's marriage, whether for better or worse.

Dealing with infidelity is just so very difficult that every now & then I turn into the voice of caution even when someone, as you have, has found happiness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I totally understand and respect where you're coming from Lor, and I thank you again for your concern and reply.

Yes, you definitely had more to lose than I did. In fact, I never felt like I lost anything except maybe a few months which I spent crying on the sofa.

If my marriage had been in the double figures of years and if there were children involved (as with yours) it may have been a different story. Then again, maybe not. Who can say? I'm very happy to hear that you and your husband worked things out so well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you again for your concern. Your thoughts and words are appreciated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

love,
VE

VE,

Thanks for your update ... there are many BS that think happiness is with their WS only and can't let go. BS has a choice to Dv from the D-day and that is a raincheck that we could cash in anytime. Hope your new hubby learns to give you 4 gifts of love too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

I'd like to add my $0.02 in this if I may.

I'm not going to debate the merits of you dating while technically married to your H. What I am going to say is that getting into another R so soon after the end of the previous one is that you are more susceptible to end up in another R very similar to the one that just end it. It has happened to at least one MB member, the Student, and she ended up married and divorced a second time in record time (her posts regarding problems in her first M are still accesible). We FBS's have had our self esteem so badly wounded by our FWS's that we are so vulnerable even Hannibal Lecter can look like prince charming compared to our xH/W. Your R sounds like it is probably in the honeymoon phase where each others shortcomings are largely overlooked to the detriment of its future survival.

Now this is not to say that your R with this new guy is doomed to fail, but just keep in mind that what I said has sadly turn out to be the case in many, many cases.

I say good for you! If your papers were filed when you met this guy, then hello, marriage is gone at this point; and quite obviously you didn't just leapfrog from one bad relationship - it sounds like you went through all the appropriate stages of grief. I think it's fabulous that you got out when you did. I bet some of wish we had found out earlier than we did what was going on. Do you want to spend your time raising a little boy? No; that's not what you thought you married, and I really hope you find happiness in your man. Good luck.

Once again, thank you for all your thoughts and replies.

I never feel like I have to defend myself or my choices on these boards, which is the beauty of this place, really. I know I can voice my opinion and it will not be judged, just as I will never judge anyone else's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

In response to Toomuchcoffee (love the name, by the way!) I can totally understand where you're coming from, and as I wrote to Lor, these are things I definitely thought about for a very long time. I debated with myself about getting involved in another R so soon - the "should's" and "should not's" etc...

But what I've found is that this one *feels* different. I feel different I'm behaving differently and treating him differently. More sanely, perhaps. More respectful. It's more of a partnership than a dictatorship. Every single aspect of this R is different from my previous ones, including my M.

You also mention the "honeymoon phase" and shortcomings. Yeah, you've got some valid points there and I'm totally aware that this happens. As I said, I didn't just jump into this thinking it was all peaches and cream and would be bliss from day one. In fact, new man and I talk about that all the time. What happens if/when the Honeymoon Phase wears off? What do we do/say when one of us discovers something we don't like about the other? We talk. We dissect. We discuss. (which is a huge difference from my M! My ex's favourite saying was "this conversation isn't going the way I want it to. I'm out of here!") New man and I haven't had an argument. Yet. We are well aware that it will come. We even talk about how we're going to handle it. We've discussed our "argument techniques", like how he usually argues and how I usually argue and will that work with us and if not how can we do it differently. We even talked about the word "argument" and should we use a different word. I mean, maybe you all have had communication like this with a partner before, but I just haven't. It's a first for me to be so open and communicative with a significant other.

As a lot of us know, part of Plan A is to look at those things about ourselves that we don't like and try to change them. When I began that process nearly a year ago, my list was HUGE! It took radical honesty with myself to change the things I didn't like about me. It was bloody difficult to do, but I did it. And practice did, ineed, make perfect. (No, I'm not perfect! Ha!) But putting certain behaviours and attitude adjustments into practice became easier as time went on.

I'm different. I've changed. And I like those changes. For the first time in my 33 years, I can look in the mirror and be proud of what I've acheived and who I've become. People notice it and comment on it. I feel so much better inside me I'm comfortable in my own skin and I'm so happy I could just shout it from the rooftops!

So yeah - where was I? (bet you're wishing I didn't come back now that you remember how I ramble on! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )I'm not even sure I have a point here - just that I appreciate everyone's comments and concern and trust me - I'm okay.

Life is mysterious. Things happen and we can't always explain it. I can't explain what clicked in me when I decided to divorce. Nor can I explain why my new man was brought into my life when he was. All I know is that I honestly feel like I did the right thing. I actually look forward to my future now. I am smiling every morning when I wake up and every night when I go to sleep. And for me, that's a big one. I like it.

So watch this space. If this R doesn't work out, then I will certainly be on here explaining why and perhaps even saying "you lot were right". Who knows? You have to take risks in life. You never know unless you do. I'm not about to spend the rest of my life wondering "what if"? I'm leaving the past in the past and looking forward to a future. I've grieved. I've cried. I've learned from my mistakes (and will probably make more in my lifetime to learn from) I've worked hard to better myself and I think I've done a pretty fine job. I'm proud of me.

Thank you all, once again (I can't say thank you enough, can I?)

love,
VE