Had a discussion by email with WH about an LB Questionnaire I filled out as him. I asked him to review it which he did. Then I asked him to clarify:

Thank you for doing the LB Questionnaire review for me. I appreciate it very
much.

I just wanted to clarify something though (see discussion below"

"Including FINANCIAL DEMANDS & WORTK ETHIC (housework - inside and out)"

What do you mean by FINANCIAL DEMANDS?

I was thinking about the housework issue. It seems to me that one big issue
was about the shirts. I remember talking about it with you and suggesting
that we get someone to iron them. However you did not like the idea. It
seems to me (aside from the fact that you just need the ... things
ironed) that maybe you took this more personally than it was meant. That it
was almost like me saying I don't care enough to iron the shirts? Any
thoughts?

I seem to have got the general idea though which is a good starting point
for me.

His reply:

Good morning,

Financial - the value of money to you was different to mine I guess. A tab
was kept by both of us spent on each other, be it golf membership, clothing,
foxtel etc.

Work ethic - I refer to all housework, inside and out. You always whinged big time....and the fact that my shirts needed ****ing ironing was bargained for massage etc. Sorry, I expected you to do them! I guess it is the traditional values I believe in, and I am not saying that men don't do any work. Washing the car and the garden can take a whole day to do - and that was my weekend gone in Summer normally, apart from the **** I had to do inside the house. I guess it all got to complicated for me.......I hope one day to meet somebody who does not give a ****, not whinges and just gets the ****in work done. SIMPLE!

Could you let me know how dog is tomorrow, have a nice day.

Regards

WH

Now is it just me or is he angry about something? I did ask him to talk to Steve and he wanted to know why - I said that Steve was helping me even though our relationship was over, but there were two sides to a story.

I don't know whether this got him worked up, but something has.

Actually I laughed at this bit:

I hope one day to meet somebody who does not give a ****, not whinges and just gets the ****in work done. SIMPLE!

I'd like someone like that too one day!! Anyone know where I can get one?

Now I want to ring H to discuss this like normal human beings so I'm here getting out the total frustration and pissed off-ness that I feel. Who the hell does he think he is. I am not a servant. I was not brought up to be a servant. I do not want to be a servant. I do my fair share and I work 40 hours per week. Arggghhhhh!!!!!!

When I suggested we get paid help every now and then- I'm told I'm lazy. Is this for real? Do men truly think this way? Am I being unreasonable? Maybe I am - I hate housework, there, I've said it, so put me in front of the firing squad OK, yes I deserve it. I am a modern woman who hates housework, shame on me.

Oh, and tradition values? Huh? I think my husband has 5 screws loose in that head of his because its malfunctioning big time.

Argghhhh!!!!!!

Seahorse, DONT CALL!!! youre pretty angry right now, which is understandable!!

I have been listening to a marriage series tape from my church where it talks about how the little things in life get to our marriage.

I too, hate to iron, absolutely hate it!! Drycleaners???

HOwever, His needs, her needs does say that domestic support is a huge need for the husband.

Sometimes we have to give in, SH says to Plan A, which is meeting the needs of your spouse, right?? So, if you do start meeting those needs, will it shock the H*ll out of him to where he will be pleased and start meeting yours??

My take is that he's still coming up with lame reasons as to why your marriage didn't work. Yes, domestic support is probably an EN of his and yes, you should try and meet it if you can. But, really, to put it in the way that he did makes me think it's just another made up reason that he's putting out there as to why you two aren't the "perfect" couple.

I would not call him. I'm pretty sure there is no way I would not be able to LB after an email like that. I'd say something snotty like "Glad to know that shirt ironing is a big need for you. Does OW provide ironing along with her other services?". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> No, I probably wouldn't say that, but I'd think it.

Wait to call if you can and just thank him for being honest and you'll think about what he said. Leave it at that.

Seahorse,

Don't feel bad. My kids were teenagers before they knew what a iron was. I have a great iron, it's called the clothes dryer. I can relate also to your anger. Sometimes you just gotta let it out. It really gets you too. I think because we have to supress all the really rotten things we want to say to get even. It is especially hard for me sometimes because I think "Wait a minute, how come YOU (WS) do something awful, and I am the one working on me." Just doesn't seem fair sometimes. That is why it is good to get it out here. Taking it out on WH is not going to help, just give them more justification, just make OW seem all the more "perfect and alluring"

BTW, thanks for your post on my thread I will look into the grief sites, I am also reading a good book called 'Rebuilding When Your Relationship Ends' by Fisher. It is a help with the stages also. And he suggests working through the stages and facing them even if you have hopes of reconcilitation.

Anyway good luck, I will be keeping an eye out and thinking about you.

Sharon

Hey you,

Remember, He is really not rational. You are treating his comments like they are as valueable as yours and like they carry the same amount of weight in a discussion.
So he had some issues with you. So he thinks you weren't perfect. WELL, WHO IS!!!!!

He is doing the same thing he has always done, blame you for what he has done wrong so he won't feel so bad about it.

You can say "I am sorry we had these disagreements, and I would still like to work on my failings, so please talk to Steve with me." But you trying to get something real out of him is not going to happen while he is in the FOG. Steve may be able to suck it out of him, that's what Steve does, and he is good at it.

Don't bite, don't fall for it, don't go back and forth with him about it. You are using logic in your discussion, and he is speaking FOGESE. You would need a translator to get anywhere.

When we love someone ( and we are mature adults) and want things to work, we give a little, and discuss things rationally, and try to find solutions, like you are doing. We don't dance around and blame the other person for everything, like he is doing.

I can see a chance for things to still work here if you still want him. He still has some passion for what he is saying, and that means his feelings are not dead. Perhaps you can get him to talk to Steve by saying "I am seeking help for all these things that you say I failed you in, come over __________ and be here when I talk to Steve so you can explain all this stuff to him and so I can get the help I need."

Liz, don't let him get to you !!! It's not you, It's really not.

SS

Hi all,

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His needs, her needs does say that domestic support is a huge need for the husband. Sometimes we have to give in, SH says to Plan A, which is meeting the needs of your spouse, right?? So, if you do start meeting those needs, will it shock the H*ll out of him to where he will be pleased and start meeting yours??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is true, but in Fall in Love Stay in Love it talks about not doing something that you both don't enthusiastically agree too. I think I need to go back and re read it, because Steve said the need is important and how you show love. I need more clarifaction or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

USH
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My take is that he's still coming up with lame reasons as to why your marriage didn't work. Yes, domestic support is probably an EN of his and yes, you should try and meet it if you can. But, really, to put it in the way that he did makes me think it's just another made up reason that he's putting out there as to why you two aren't the "perfect" couple. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So true, if its not that, its because I didn't listen or because I had an argument with his parents back in the year 1705. Its all fog, its just every now and then it gets to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does OW provide ironing along with her other services?". No, I probably wouldn't say that, but I'd think it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought about that line actually. Does the Armani wearing princess iron your shirts? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sharon

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes you just gotta let it out. It really gets you too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah, I've been bottling too long I think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am also reading a good book called 'Rebuilding When Your Relationship Ends' by Fisher. It is a help with the stages also. And he suggests working through the stages and facing them even if you have hopes of reconcilitation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's how I'm facing it, that its the end now, and I'm just plan Aing to learn how to relate better with people in general. I don't just plan A my H, I'm trying to do it with everyone now. Does that make sense?

SS

Hey you too!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are treating his comments like they are as valueable as yours and like they carry the same amount of weight in a discussion.
So he had some issues with you. So he thinks you weren't perfect. WELL, WHO IS!!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Its true, I guess I'm still trying to find the answer to a problem, when I've already done all I can and as you say its him thats broken and he has to fix himself.

He can still push the buttons and I react. I have learnt though:

that I can control LB's
that I can choose how I react
and I've finally got what Pepperband told me

"They are just feelings and I don't have to do anything about them even though I have them".

I'll have to let her know that.

I think I'm finished MB101. I'd like to gradute to the next class please.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you trying to get something real out of him is not going to happen while he is in the FOG. Steve may be able to suck it out of him, that's what Steve does, and he is good at it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm hoping he will ring Steve and Steve has requested he ring. He was surprised that Steve wanted to speak to him even though its 'over'. I said I was working on me even though it was 'over' and that Steve wants his side of the story. I am reminding him regularly, you never know he might just do it one day - hope its before its too late. He did go through an LB questionnaire for me though, so its a small sign of hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You would need a translator to get anywhere. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I organise translations at work. Maybe I should add a Fogese translator to my sessional panel!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Liz, don't let him get to you !!! It's not you, It's really not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I appreciate you reminding me of this. I really need to get this into my head.

Update

So I spoke to him yesterday after that email and asked him if he was angry. He said no and we discussed it without LB's. He said he didn't want us to stop talking - I pointed out that as he R with OW was obviously getting serious that she would probably not be very happy if exW was still talking with H - natural consequence right?

I said that as he has told me he is happy and as a friend of his has said he is happy then I should just 'move on'. I said that I wished I could have made him happy and that I still believe we could work it out.

No response from him. He said he had to go then.

I also talked about how I now know that we need to negotiate these things and how I understand that the reason we fall in love is the meeting of the needs that are important to them. He listened and agreed. So maybe there is hope but I'm not getting my hopes up. I've learnt that lesson well!

Yeah Seahorse,

I understand Plan A with everyone. Most Plan A things can be used in any relationship. Hope you are doing okay today. It feels good to vent here I have done it a few times myself and always feel better after.

Take care.
Sharon