Hello friends....I don't post a lot here any more but still lurk, post occasionally and follow many of the stories.

First, background for those who aren't familiar w/my story:

D-day: Feb 2001
Separation: March 2001
WW returned home: August 2001 (false recovery)
WW moved out again: December 2001
D-day #2: Feb 2002
A ended: March 2002 (or thereabouts) No more contact & OM is in recovery with his W.

WW and I talked again last nite. We have been living in some sort of limbo...some contact despite her living alone. We have done several weekend trips together this summer. In July she said she really wanted to work on our M, but that lasted about a week and she backed off. Went away together in August...she said to "see how we feel about each other." I felt fine--she, obviously didn't. In September (on our anniversary) she asked about the possibility of going on a 2nd honeymoon. She invited me to go on a biz trip with her at the end of Oct., but now has backed off and I realize there is no point in going.

So last nite, she said she still doesn't know what she wants. She is not sure she wants a divorce, but she is equally unsure that she wants to be married to me. She has not filed. She told me maybe I should and move on with my life. She says her therapist tells her if she really loved me she would file for divorce and let me go on with my life. She say she is no closer to coming home than she was six months ago. But again reinforced she is not at a point where she is willing to file for a divorce.

She did say she is happy right now living on her own. She says she feels she has never accomplished anything. (She is a professional administrator and has a great job that pays well and she is well respected by those she works with. In additioon she has led major fund raising campaigns for non profits and has been a community leader and volunteer. That said--I realize her perception is her reality.)

She said she is considering changing jobs, wants to live in a city...we are semi-rural but not really in the middle of nowhere...her job places her in major cities on a regular basis.

I realize this is getting long but this is how we ended last nite.

We agreed not to communicate for a while...which is probably good I suppose.

Then I did something I never thought I would ever do: I took off my wedding ring and gave it to her.

This is what I told her:

"I have worn this ring every day for more than 10 years. Including the past two years which have been very difficult for me to live through. I don't want this ring if we get divorced...I only want it back from you if you are ever committed to our marriage. I hope that happens.

"I remember when we were first married how you always said you loved seeing that ring on my finger. I hope it can return to my finger but that is now up to you.

"I wore this ring as a symbol of my commitment to our marriage but i just can't wear it anymore. Just becuase I am not wearing it don't think for a minute that I am not committed to us and don't think for a minute that I don't love you. I am and I do."

So there it is...I don't know if it was the right or wrong thing to do but it seemed like the right thing at the time. I already miss having that ring on my finger but what is doen is done.

I know everyone says this but it is truly amazing to me how our marriage has come to this.

We were so perfect, so devoted and everyone told us so...

Our friends have said that of all the couples they know we would have been the last that they would have expected this to happen to.

It is really sad and I am not sure where this is headed but it seems like we are closer to divorce now than ever before...Still, as I told my wife, I will not file for a divorce I do not want.

If you made it this far, thanks for listening...and if you are reading here I hope your relationship is in better shape than mine...

Take care

E

<strong>
She says her therapist tells her if she really loved me she would file for divorce and let me go on with my life.
</strong>

Tell her, she should ask her money back! Really! If I were you, I would continue to shower her with attention, the try & make her happy in every way possible, and make you happy in the same time. Plan A is the word. If you're over & out on that, then cut off the contact. I think what is grinding you down at the moment is the on-off-on-off thing going on, somewhere in-between A and B. right?

Elad,

I know how difficult this was for you. Removing my ring was the hardest thing to do. I remember how I found myself searching my ring finger with my other fingers. Missing that ring so bad.

At this point in your relationship I don't know what else you could have done. It will be my prayer that she will put that ring back where it belongs.

While things are not perfect, I want you to know that my ring is on my finger once again. It can happen for you as well my friend. I pray it(recovery)does.

Stay the course, Elad.

jd

Elad, I think you did the right thing. The scenario you wrote sounds very much like one that H and I had. His taking off his ring really affected me. And our counselor was constantly reaffirming my decision to leave the marriage. In the end it didn't matter. I realized that it wasn't my counselor who had to live with the decision I made for the rest of her life. For me the impending divorce and realization that my H was indeed ready to move on (hello reality) knocked me right out of indecisionland. I don't think showering your W with affection or being her buddy when it's convenient will do that. If she thinks she wants to divorce you, then give her a taste of what life will be like that way. She might decide it isn't as cozy as she thought.

[[[[Elad]]]]

Cali

Nick: You're right that the on-off-on-off stuff is wearing me down. After 18 months of plan A I need to evaluate where I am for me...

jd: Well you're right about searching for the ring...I have been doing that all day. Thanks for your insight...I'm glad that your ring made it back, and yeah while it may not be perfect, that's something you can work towards, right?

h4f: I appreciate your insight from the other side of this...you are right--right now I can't shower my WW with affection or be her pal...she has to come to some decisions on her own...I have offered as much input as I can. I told her last nite I could argue the logic of all this 'til I was blue in the face and it really wouldn't matter if she still felt either I or the marriage was the cause of her unhappiness. Logic just won't carry the day.

cali: Thanks for the hug. I felt it all the way from California <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks all

Take care

E

<small>[ October 11, 2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Elad ]</small>

Gracefully and lovingly done.

Your boundaries are clear.

I hope you are well.

Pepper

Thanks Pepper...I may not be well, but I am better than I was last nite.

We were both supposed to go to a friend's surprise 40th B'day party tonite...WW said she is not going...says she needs to back away from that for now...and originally I decided I wasn't going to go either, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but I changed my mind today and decided I would spend the evening with my friends...can't just stay home feeling sorry for myself... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

E

Elad,

I'm so sorry for your pain, we are on almost the same timeline as you have probably noticed. I too, still wear my ring, the thought of taking it off hurts too much.

I truly hope that she will be putting that ring back on your finger, as if she was renewing the vows you made when you were first married and to start a wonderful, fresh new marriage.

(((Elad)))

Elad,
I too did an 18 mo Plan A. And, quite honestly, that is such a tough thing to do, I so give you kudos. You've done something that few people, and certainly few people outside of MB, do. You've stayed at the point of reconiciliation, if your WS was willing to do reconcile. It is honorable.

I think you did the right thing with the ring, because, it probably is time for a change. SAA recommends a 6 mo Plan A, followed by an 18 mo Plan B. I have not checked this officially with MB, but, I suspect an 18 mo Plan A is = to a combo of A/B for 2 yrs. Don't quote me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Whatever your W chooses from now and on out, you've done your part to make a reconciliation possible. If she wants one...then, as my H did, she can do the work to make it happen.

I spent about 4 mo. in limbo after the Plan A, I dunno, we had reconciliation #6, separation #7 and I was just there. Then I wanted a divorce at about mo 22. Then my H did Plan A to me.

My H & I reconciled after 2+ years of bad times.

The one thing I can advise you to do is to change what you have been doing. Ring off is one thing, might be enough. Plan B, if you can. But, do change behaviors.

Don't serve D papers unless you truly think you want to be divorce, because you are more likely to end up divorced than not.

Elad,

I am impressed by how you have handled your situation and responded. A Ws would have to be more than stupid to feel anger or try to use this against you.

Your words to your W, touched my heart. Even the fact that you live away from the city and made a life (what many would call great) will be a piece of reality she will wake up to one day and beat herself over her head of why did she give it all up for naught.

Elad, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You carried yourself through this with dignity and grace (that's ok for a guy!!!).

We could use your wisdom, guidance and support here. I sincerely hope one day your W wakes up and realizes what a gem of man she has. The rest of us here and I am sure many others.....already have.

Hugz, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
L.

Hi all...you guys are too good....thanks for the support.

going_crazy: I too thought about how painful it would be to take off that ring, because it does signify--to me anyway--a pretty big change. It's amazing how that little band of gold makes such a difference. I miss it terribly and I miss my W but so it goes. Like I said, it seemed like the right thing to do...

Lor: It always amazes me to think of your story and the ups and downs you endured. It has inspired me to think that someone else has gone thru this very long timeline and came out OK at the end. I admire what you have done and your H is very lucky... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Orchid: I so hope, or have hoped, that my WW would "wake up one day" and see what she has lost to this point. That hasn't happened yet, but who knows...maybe someday...thanks for your support and thanks for telling me I have handled things "with grace" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> Shucks, I am just trying to do my best under very trying circumstances...just as so many of us here are. But I truly thank you for the compliment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

I read the following last week here and I don't recall who wrote it but I clipped it and pasted it into a file I keep for inspiration:

I AM STANDING FOR THE HEALING OF MY MARRIAGE

I will not give up, give in, give out, or give over 'til the healing takes place. I made a vow, I said the words, I gave the pledge, I gave a ring, I took a ring, I gave myself, I trusted God, and said the words and meant the words...in sickness and in health, in sorrow and in joy, for better and for worse, for richer and for poorer, in good times and in bad... I am standing NOW, and will not sit down, let down, slow down, calm down, fall down, look down, and be down 'til the breakdown is torn down.

While I couldn't quote it to my WW, I made sure she understood (when she asked me WHY I keep hanging in there) that she understood perfectly it was because leaving would be the easier thing to do but not the right thing. I made the commitment to her and to us and I will not break it.

Thanks to whoever wrote that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks all for your support, hugs and your kind words...

E

<small>[ October 12, 2002, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Elad ]</small>

Elad -- I was disheartened by your post (I was gone all weekend), but sense from your words that this is where you need to be right now. I can completely understand how you have gotten to this place where you needed to express what you did and take off your ring.

I know that was hard. I have thought about it.

Your patience has been amazing and is a testament to how much you are standing for your marriage.

It is so difficult to explain to others that have not walked this road and I am glad that you have felt support here. You have been through so much.

I just went to plan B and am feeling some relief, some fear, and some sadness. Mostly overwhelming sadness that a marriage could get to this point.

I still think your wife must be under a spell if she can't see that a guy with this unbelievable patience and love (and who is willing to go shopping for her all day as a vacation day -- I don't need to tell you that is highly unusual and should be a big love bank depositor) is worth facing whatever pain she is facing. In the end, I do believe that most WW and WH are running away from something and are afraid to face their fears or shortcomings or the fact that life didn't turn out to be a pleasant fairytale all the time. BW and BH become the scapegoats. Admittedly, we're all far from perfect and most of us have learned the very hard way (through the pain of an A) what love really is and what it takes to sustain it.

Elad, you've been a strong and important support for me these last few months. Your words in this most recent post emanate pain, but also some relief. I hope you find peace.

unsure---

Thanks for your post and support...I actually laughed out loud at the "shopping." It's true but I didn't think anyone would remember <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's always good to get a laugh...they seem to be rare these days, ya know?

USH said:

In the end, I do believe that most WW and WH are running away from something and are afraid to face their fears or shortcomings or the fact that life didn't turn out to be a pleasant fairytale all the time. BW and BH become the scapegoats.

I think you may have hit it on the head here...at least I think that's where my WW is. She had this idea growing up that she would probably leave here where we live and move to some big city where she would meet her prince and they would live happily ever after and she would be the belle of the ball.

It's interesting in that she was that to a certain extent here where we live, (big fish/smaller pond) but I think the A (with an OM from a large city who was/is a big deal where he lives--high profile lots of $$$ etc) made those feelings come back after 10 years with me. Now I hear how much of that time she was unhappy living only for me and not doing anything for herself, yadayadyada...and it all is revisionist history of course and I have told her that but she just can't see it.

She needs someone to blame for that rather than being accountable for her own choices so BINGO---guess who is held responsible for holding her back---you guessed it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Call it a spell, fog or whatever, I don't think the OP needs to be still a part of their life for them to remain locked up in this fogged world.

The only question seems to be whether the fog lifts before the BS gives up...

I haven't yet and I suppose there will be a time when I do...perhaps giving up the ring (and yes it was hard) is part of my personal journey to working my way out of this. I don't know.

As for unsureheart---stand strong in your plan, but be flexible if necessary...I know it is difficult but you have already shown a great deal of strength... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

If you have not read Melodie Beattie's "The Language Of Letting Go" I would recommend it. It is a series of very short essays for each day that help you look at the world from your own position of strength (and yes, you have more than you think) and is a small tool on the path ot recovery--whether that is with your WS or alone.

Thanks again for your support.

E

you did the right thing-she is much too sure of you. Needs a wake up call-big time. don't file, consider plan b. jersey girl
sorry only have a min.

jersey girl --thanks...whether it was right or wrong we'll see I guess. Like I said it felt right at the time...

Yesterday was interesting--WW e-mailed in the AM to say she was sad to think of me walking around with out my rin on "for whatever that's worth" she said.

Later in the day she left me four voice mails...

First one was a kind of panicky call that just said she wanted to hear my voice---said she was worried about me becuase she had a bad feeling and please call...I didn't call because when I got the msg I was in a meeting and couldn't call her back right away...

The next three VMs (one at work and two at home) basically said to ignore the first message. Said she was having a sh!##y day and wanted to talk to me...felt tlike maybe she was having a panic attack or something, also said she had reduced her anti-dep meds, too so that could have caused her panic.

Anyway--she asked me not to return her earlier calls.

She said she had to try to figure out how to deal with this on her own if I am noit going to be around (if we'redivorced I suppose) and not to call her that she was OK and had to work thru all this herself...

So I did not call....

Not sure what--if anything--to make of all of it...

Today is a new day...

Take care all

E

Elad -- I went to the bookstore last night and bought Beattie's Language of Letting Go, Tough Love, and a third book about communicating when you feel angry and hurt (wish I'd seen this one before d-day). I could start my own bookstore with the number of tomes I've paid for and reside in my sun room and bedroom. They help though when I can't sleep.

The panic attack phone call from your wife. My perspective on this is that it is a bit of a wake up call in her confusion. She may be realizing for the first time that she really needs/wants you in her life. But, again, these small episodes don't always lead to the full wake-up.