Hi folks, long saga of H and i - he walked out 18 months ago- I found out about his A 2 years ago. He is living with OW 150 miles away but visits our three boys every saturday and often spends time with me as well.
Today
Strange day today. H arrived and we all went to local shopping mall to buy shoes etc for the boys. Had a very pleasant time just like so many other families we passed- in fact pleasanter than those that argued!!
Then home and as I had invited a family to evening meal I gave H offer to stay or go. He chose to stay. these are old friends of our who he has seen occasionally over last 18 months. Very nice time together, lots of laughter and chatter. Once H had gone to collect a sailing buddy for w/e , my friend commented how strange it was that H was so at ease in the home with me and them. He carved the meat when I was ready to serve and opened the wine etc. Only time he looked at all uncomfortable was when my friend asked me what I had said to another friend who is seprated from his w and intends to move to Australia with children. H doesn't know these friends and asked what my friend was meaning when we explained he looked sheepish and said perhaps he should look the other way !!

H seems to have a very comfortable life at the moment enjoying the sex, and bachelor lifestyle with his new OW in the week and family life with me and kids on a Saturday. there were many other little comments and looks which confused my friends. At least I know now its not me reading things into situation that really aren't there.Is this an alien or just someone who wants to be my best friend but not lover and can this ever work

Jante

<small>[ October 28, 2002, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

He is a simple old fashioned cake eater. He needs a reality check. I personally can't see letting him play happy homemaker with you and then running off to his bachelor pad. Lay down the law honey. Plan A doesnt mean be a doormat...you are being nice well above and beyond the call of duty. What are his plans. Divorce? Or is he just going to date until he is tired of it then come home? He is not acting like a husband you should not give him the benefits of a spouse. I realize you are doing a service to your children by coddling him but dont do them a disservice by showing them it is ok to treat mommy anyway he wants.

best wishes

ayslyne

Thanks A
I do appreciate your comments, and I have pulled back a lot from spending time playing happy families with him, but for the childrens sake haven't gone to full plan B. I find that still too difficult to contemplate. He does seem to be a cake eater but, I would have him back if he changes his mond about OW so at the moment find this is the only way to live.
Jante

I think the thing is, he WON'T change his mind about the OW UNTIL you stop meeting some of his needs. You don't want to "punish" your children because of his choices. But the way it is now, he gets the good life - happy Sunday meals with family, and adoring children and a pleasant "wife" - week-long sex and no other distractions with OW, and NONE of the pressures of having to be a dad on those 5 days - you get to carry that load all by yourself.

I know - this is exactly what happened to my family when my father left us when I was 12. My dad was a devoted week-end father. But I was so angry at him as the years went by for him NOT being there during the week, and my mother never let me express that anger. I was also angry with him because I was EXPECTED to spend the weekend with my father - it wasn't my fault he left, so why did I have to give up every week-end to spend with him, or rather, THEM? It stopped me from socializing with my school friends in a normal way, and deeply hurt my social deveopment. When I tried to express my feelings to my mother, she used to say "you're lucky you have him on the weekends - when my dad left, he left for good!" So I grew up not only with anger I was never allowed to express, but with guilt for feeling that anger. Are you sure you are not doing this to your children?

What my mother was trying to do was protect us from the OW, who was very manipulative. She wanted us to have SOME safe place to see my father without the OW present, so I understand why she did this. We also spent weekends with my father. I think it was better for my father to have to take us for the weekend into his own home - that way he had to face the confrontations between us and OW, and we were allowed to make up our own minds about whether or not we liked the OW (we didn't). Also, the OW found us very stressful to have around, and this led to LBing with my dad. In their case, it never split them up, but for some WS, when they see how the OP behaves with their children, it is enough to send them back to their spouse. The trouble for the BS wife (mother) is that she feels that she is throwing her children to the wolves for a few hours. And there is always the risk that the OW will twist the children's minds against their mother. But I suspect that in most cases, children are very loyal to their parents, especially when they see clearly who is at fault.

So its a difficult situation and it depends on the people involved. But the way it is now, I think you are just enabling him to continue his affair, and this will not lead him to change. Its jolly comfortable for him.

Just MHO, and hope this helps.

LIR

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Hi LIR and thanks for your insight.
The children are able to go out most though not every saturday when H visits, and play with their friends, do football etc. They have also spent three weeks in the summer hols with H in London, 2 weeks with OW at her house the other week on theri own with dad. He is having them again in London i three weeks time for the w/e - i am taking them down and leaving them, though he did suggest I join them for the bonfire party!!! I acknowledge that I am enabling, but find it hard to find a way out when he and OW live so far away I can't expect the children to travel on their own and it isn't practical for H to come here to take them back to his each w/e. When he lived nearer then he did have them at his place once a month. These days I tend to go away and enjoy myself once a month and let him have the boys on his own in my home- that way the boys continue to see there friends. I feel that there has to be a line drawn but as yet have not been able to establish where!
Jante

Hi folks, I had thought I'd got beyong feeling with H's comments, but he got to me again tonight. I rang him to ask him to email back some work of mine he has on his computr and while on asked him about the 16th Nov now it seems settled for the UK DBers meet. He came back with should be okay but I need to ckeck with OW. If hes just said he wasn't sure if he had anything on it woulldn't have bothered me, I had started the conversation by acknowledging that it was only a fortnight after he had them in London. It was his having to check with OW that upset me momentarily. I didn't react at the time just felt low afterwards. It just shows I'm not as detatched as I hoped!!Oh well I'm still hoping to make the meet, and by tomorrow the low feeling will have gone and I'll be smiling again!
There are times like today when I wish i could give him a big dose of reality. Do you think moving to Australia might do it!!!
I would really like to ive a big kick to wake him up.
Jante

Hi folks- I hope someone is reading here!! I have had a long phone call with H this evening which is unusual in its self.Our home was supposed to complete on the sale in a fortnioght but the buyer wants to put it back another month. Although that was the reason for phoning he spent 15 minutes telling me how ill hes been this week, how sad he is at losing scottish home and how stressed at loss of job. I tried to be as supportive and encourging of him as possible, affirming how he felt etc. I now feel to send him following letter but would welcome your input first.
Dear H,
I am sorry to hear you aren't well and know how much stress can debilitate you and cause even a mild illness to be more severe.
I don't want you to think I am uncaring about the situation with the castle and your job. I do understand how much the castle has meant to you and what a great loss it is going to be. I can't pretend to be sorry its sold, but for me its what it represents in our life and is the closing of the final chapter. I don't want to rehash old problems but am glad that something which proved devisive between us will be gone at last. I am deeply sorry that my love for you was not able to encompass the love for a castle as well and can only say again how much I regret my depression and wish that I could turn back the clock and relive those three years that led up to you going, again. I can't and so have to live with the consequences which have resulted in your leaving me and finding someone else who must meet your needs in which I was unable to. I have continued to love you through all this, there is some part of me which will always belong to you. However I also accept that i can do nothing to change your mind or make you love me. As such I feel the time has come to let you go completely. I will not contest any divorce action on your part. You know my own feelings on divorce and so I hope understand why even now I can't file for divorce myself.
However, should you decide that you don't want a divorce and that you do want to return to me as my husband , I want you to know that I am still your loving wife and I do believe that we could work things out even after all this time. The door is open for you to walk back in.

With heartfelt feelings Jante
Thanks Jante

Hi J,
I see things haven't changed much while I have been gone.
He comes, stays, eats, converses with you. He seems to like to be with you, he sends you a b-day gift even though you think he would have, or should have forgotten. When with you he is happy, and it looks like he enjoys the time he spends there. Everyone says he is a cake eater and he is.

You on the other hand have wondered for 6 months what to do. Plan A doesn't seem to bring him much closer and you don't think you can do plan B. You have tried other things including some plan B behaviors at specific times, and slowing down communication but he seems to be in about the same place. You are more even, and don't get as angry ( at least it looks like you don't.) You have down days but not as often, or as bad ( if you are telling the truth, and if you are reporting the down days every time they happen.)

You want to know if this can ever work, but none of us knows. Some have quit before they got as far as you have got, others have gone on longer and made it work. Most here would probably recommend plan B at this point.

As for your feelings, you don't say much but it has to be wearing on you and you would have to want closure of the whole thing, yet you wonder what to do.

I feel that there has to be a line drawn but as yet have not been able to establish where!
Exactly !
I still recommend making comments to him from time to time just to see how he reacts.
"So, T, should I go ahead and file now, or just want until spring for you to do it? Do you care either way?"

I don't think anything you say will make it worse. Last spring, and early summer you were afraid it would turn him away, and you felt you had been making progress from the time you quit being angry, and started plan A. I would have to say it looks like he is coming closer but it is very, very, very slowly and I always worry about how long you can last (though I have said nothing about that for a few months.)

I had thought I'd got beyond feeling with H's comments, but he got to me again tonight.
It looks like he makes deposits when he visits, even though it is not what you want it to be. He hurts you because you still care and when he spends time with you, it makes you believe it can still work, and the hurt comes back all over again. One of the things you want to know is " should I keep going, or just realize it isn't going to work, and go on with my life."

It just shows I'm not as detached as I hoped!!
He keeps making those deposits. You were most detached during that big gap this summer where you didn't have much contact.

There are times like today when I wish i could give him a big dose of reality.
Well, probably only God, and or you, can do it. I don't know if he ( God) expects you to do it, or if he will do something directly.

Do you think moving to Australia might do it!!!
Well, it would get his attention but it may be such a big thing to overcome that he may think he couldn't ever make it work, and so not try. ( I don't believe you are really thinking of moving that far away, but keep in mind my answer, about being to big to overcome,it may fit more than this.)

I would really like to give a big kick to wake him up.

Watch him closely next time he comes to see you, you may get a good chance. The boys might find that more humorous than you throwing the glasses on the patio. If you dropped something on the ground for him to bend over and pick up, it may offer a better target.

I am just teasing, and I mean no disrespect to him.

Actually, I would probably recommend against asking point blank about D. Here's another one from my bag of suggestions.

" T, sometimes when you are here like this, I feel almost like old times, I feel close to you, and it is enjoyable for me. I just wish I could understand these feelings and what to do with them. Do you have any suggestions for me? What I mean is, I can't decide if I should just go on with my life, Dv you, and find someone else, or just what I should do. Oh well, I suppose I had better think about it some more."

Then change the subject.
I hope you are not afraid of him, or talking to him. If it continues as he says it will, you will be divorced in the spring anyway. So, it looks like you can continue to D, or find a way to change it. (Granted, God may want you to wait, and do nothing, I don't know, but he should warn you to keep quiet if that's what he wants.)

Well, you are still waiting, I hope God will make known what it is that you should do. I did think of my friends here on MB over the weekend and I did do what I had intended to do. I hope it helps in some small way. It is really hard for me to watch the pain that people go through, and I didn't know it would be this bad when I started coming here to converse with others. I hope you have more up days than down ones. I hope you know that others care about you and your family.

I should have saved the joke until last, and tried to leave you up - but perhaps you are up today on your own. I hope you are.

( Later)
I wrote the above in another program and just came back to paste it in. I did a page refresh and find you have posted again. I agree with what you have written and think it a good idea. I have one question, and perhaps suggestion. How would you have closed a letter to him when he was with you, before any of this happened? I recommend you close this one in that same way.
SS

Hi folks- and welcome back SS its good to hear from you again. Yes my days are more up then down but recently have had a couple of down days hence the letter, Will think about how to close letter.Jante

<small>[ October 16, 2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

I don't know. After all this time isn't it time to face the possibility and reality of divorce? Haven't you waited a long long time? Don't you want to move on with your life?

So I don't think it is inappropriate to ask him about filing. In fact I thought your letter is very good, as is. You are asking him for closure but at the same time leaving the door open. Still, cakeeater that he is why should he want to file?
Filing.... may obligate him legally for child support, division of money etc
...forces him to face what he's done
...forces him to take action
...puts him in the situation of being 100% available to OW. No doubt she will push him for marriage once D is final.
...may precipitate a change in your actions. Once divorced, you may start dating, or even remarry. You may reject him coming over for family dinners- a new boyfriend may not like the idea. A new man could come into his sons' lives. This way he keeps you conveniently on hold, knowing your religious beliefs preclude filing for divorce due to his abandonment.

Thanks Espoir,
Its good to have your input again after all this time, I appreciate your insight. Yes he does appear to be a cake eater and yes there are reasons why he is likely not to file, but I want him to know that I won't context. Finance isn't one of the issues I don't think as he has always been fair in his support of the children division of the equity of the house etc. However you are right the friendly family dinners etc will change. I'll just have to see if he responds at all. I have sent the letter having slept on it it still seemed the right thing to do.
Jante

Well H rang me for another long conversation tonight- twice in 2 nights is a recoed in the last 19 months. He started out very down over job, which definitely ends 31st Oct. and the delay on the sale of castle. Hoever ended up sounding more cheerful and he was willing not to have the children in london first w/e in Nov as they will have been in Scotland for the 2 w/e before and don't want to be away a third. He agreed to the change because he didn't want me getting the stress from them!! His words! Things do seem to be changing slowly. That said OW has been away and onl returns ton ight so that may be part of the reason.
Jante

I hope OW LB's him like crazy when she gets "home".

I don't know when you leave for Levan, Friday evening, or Saturday. I hope something good happens there for you. I still feel strongly that something good WILL happen. I hope T wakes up before it is everlastingly too late for him.

I sense you have hope but are afraid if it. Is it something he said, or just that he talked for so long two nights in a row?

Be careful with your feelings, I know I probably say that too much, but worry about you when you have this much contact with him. Don't be afraid to do what you feel to do (I say that too much also) I really believe something will come to you and you will have an overwhelming positive feeling to do it. I am glad you sent the letter, if it was by e-mail, then he will probably get it before you go to Levan.

J, you say a lot to us in these short little notes you post to us, but you also leave much unsaid. I hope you get some good sleep, I see you are up past your bedtime to post this last one. I'll keep praying for you all, probably the best thing I can do to help.

SS

Hi folks,
SS I go to Levan saturday mid morning- T is driving up from London, I'll cook him some breakfast and then we travel up together. Yes the long conversations and a very slightly more open feel when with him has given me hope. One other rather odd thing happened last night. I checked my answer machine and there was a long message. It turned out to be a conversation between H and OW. He had obviously caught the redial button on his cell phone and it was between them in the car. She was moaning about being cold, he was apologising for being delayed in collecting her from station, then she was complaining about the neighbours. no mention of loving or missing each other after a week apart with her in Egypt!
I didn't set out to snoop but this was presented to me!!Although I don't say much about howe I am feeling I am generally ok and posiotive- something good will come out of all this and H will have to break before God one day.
Jante
Jante

When you see him, ask him if he wants to talk about your letter to him. He may say no, one can never tell.

" T, do you have any comment about my letter, It would be nice to know what you are thinkng?"

He may even say he has not seen it. You would probably be ablel to tell if he was truthful.

Oh, I hope something good happens. Still praying.

Ss

These redials are always intentional, never accidental. He wants you to know that they are together; he is with her. On Saturdays he shares parenting responsibilities with you for the sake of the children.

Alternatively *she* may have recorded the conversation, with or without his knowledge.

<small>[ October 19, 2002, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

Hi Jante,
often I don't know the proper way to begin.

I want so much today to hear that things went well, but I am afraid for you and worry about your feelings. I hope you are OK. I find myself wondering what you had planned to do and how it went. Please let us know how you are today.

SS

I wanted to report on local weather.

We got a "trace" of rain the last few days.
Living in the desert is tough. I looked back over the years and I can see that the biggest rain storm we ever got was during the world wide 40 day and night rainstorm that Noah is famous for. We got 1/8th inch.

Sorry if I'm off topic, just wanted to report in.

SS

<small>[ October 24, 2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi folks and thanks for the posts and thoughts while I have been away.
Well some week it was!!!!!
Travelled up to Scotland and had a very pleasant journey, shared the driving and chatted in the friendly way we do. Then on Sunday he informed me he intends to file for dv as soon as he can in English law. Rocked me a bit but we then went on to discuss his comment. I asked him if he could see the next 30-40 years with OW because having seen them together I couldn't. He said sometimes he could but not at the moment!!! He went on to say that he thought it was the least he could do to set me free !! I then asked if he could bring himself to hug me which he agreed to do. While he was hugging me with tears rolling down his face I said " If you are certain you no longer love me, certain you can never live with me again and certain you want love Bev and want to marry her , then Dv me, but if you are only doing it to be fair to me and set me free , don't close the door. He didn't comment.
The following morning he returned to London and i was left packing up his and my belongings. He returned yesterday and we packed a trailer and this morning headed south.
However it wasn't a smooth journey. H decided that despite me never having towed before I should share the driving.We left Gretna at 2pm and proceeded down M6 through the Lakes, all seemed to be going well when the wind got up, I was overtaking a lorry at the time and H told me to watch out for wind, next minute the trailer was swaying and I couldn't pull out of it so was forced over to centre of motorway and then spun round. Car is a write off but we are all ok!!!
The 6 hour journey home has taken 12. This week H has lost his beloved castle, his computer crashed losing important work, his job ends on Friday and now I have wrecked his car. Not a lot left for him to lose!! I found it hard this evening as we travelled back to hear him talk to OW and hear him reply to her obvious I love you with Me too!" However I will continue to wait on God and see what happens with my marriage.
Jante

sounds to me like the karma van is running wild over your husband!!!!