Hi Hopeful,
I have read some of your other responses, I am sorry for how you feel and the pain you are having. I noticed that you said your A started long distance. My H's A was mostly long distance. I have hopes that now that they are closer, possibly together that things will wear thin. Now my Question I have alot but will start with a few. When you said the fog started to lift, why didn't you immediatly go back to your H? What held you back. Is there anything you think I can do. We are divorcing. I am filing but only because he will in his state and that is bad for me (long story) Did you give your H any signs that the fog was lifting? Anything I should watch for? He lives in another state and we barely communicate. E-mail almost exclusively. Can you give me any advice? To you I would say your H probably still loves you. What kind of wife were you before A. I still love my H. But if he came back I would be so scared to let my heart open to him again, even though it is what I want most in the world. Men are stubborn too, and I think their egos get in the way. So hold on.

Thanks for any help you can give.
Sharon

Hi Sharon,

I hope I can be helpful in some way. Thanks for your expression of empathy for the way I feel. I know that I brought my grief on myself, unlike you in this type of situation. I apologize in advance that this is long, and I go on too much about my situation. I'm doing that to try and clarify and give you a better picture of it.

Your first question is why I didn't return to my H as soon as the fog started to lift. It's interesting, I remember even before the separation , moping and crying, and WANTING my then H to confront me about everything. I thought he knew, and didn't care. My gut instincts told me the OM and the A were all wrong, but there was much confusion on my part. OM expressed feelings of physical admiration and desire that I felt I hadn't experienced with my ExH, and I took that to mean more than it should have meant. (I guess that was 'fog') I realize now it wasn't ME he was so nuts about,(OM), it was just his way to be OVERLY interested in 'affection'. My H was much more reserved in all manners in life, a more gentle soul.

Before OM moved local, and two months after D-Day, I called my ExH to beg for forgiveness and another chance. His answer was a firm ,"No." It has been the same since. When ExH filed the papers, I signed them--fighting back tears. I should have stopped everything, or tried to delay more. That being said, it still took 13 months from filing to finality.

Anyway, OM found employment locally, and gave up a very good position to do so. All this time, he'd been living with his wife{in another room,so he said, a room that I could call} , and visiting here weekly while I was separated. I am ashamed of that, of course. His wife seemed to know about me completely, and had filed D papers before my exH did--but she tolerated all of this. I am sure that her friends told her to 'wait it out', that it would go away. Who knows? I never had contact with his wife. I feel ashamed of the way I hurt her, she sounded like a nice lady. FYI- EX-OM and I talked about our spouses quite a bit, and I am sure at the beginning of our A exOM was still quite taken with his wife as he talked about her way too much! (I didn't do it as much as he did, not near as much, I felt too much guilt to sit and talk that much about my H.)

ExOM moved here , gave up a good position where he was at to begin life here. He also left behind two children. (teen and adult age) I could see pretty much after he was around the area for a month that it was going to be a disaster. However, there is a certain point that you think you HAVE to make the relationship with the OP work, in order to justify what you did. To justify that it was 'real' love, that it was your 'true' love. His contract in the area was to last 10 months, and as I said I felt responsible for him being around here. Your H probably feels the same way. I read your story, and it looks like she moved here from Romania, right?

I did give signs the fog was lifting to my ExH. Even when I was still with OM, I would ask my then H if there was any chance, please. He would always tell me "NO". So, I would think, "Well, he doesn't love me anyway--why bother?" As the months passed, all I could think about was all that I'd lost. I began to get quite down, and OM and I fought a lot. We did too when he lived far away. It was never the peaceful R I had with my ExH, this OM was extremely domineering and much more of a fighter than ExH. He also dominated my time completely, and seemed to resent my R's with girlfriends, family. In the end I caught OM in several lies, so I experienced what it was to be lied to--but not in the way I lied to my ExH. Is that what's called 'poetic justice',or 'kharma'?

If my ExH had ever told me he wanted to work on the M, I would have ended it with OM. The R with OM was very tumultuous--and finally I wised up. I did feel responsible though, the guy had relocated...had no other friends here, done all this 'for me', but I really wanted to be rid of him. I could see that he was NO GOOD. On top of this, I knew exH didn't want me. I would now be truly alone. Loneliness is part of what got me into an A, and now I would be ALL ALONE. But--better alone than with OM, for sure! I've said that my whole life, "Better no company than poor company." I think he was a serial philanderer, and that's part of why his wife behaved as she did. She just knew it would 'blow away.'

Much of the time during the separation I could think about was ExH. I am sure your H thinks of you a lot. I was thinking too, it might help if I tell you about how OM"s wife treated him. As much as OM professed that he would NEVER go back to her, I never quite believed him. She had filed, but then did no more about it. For months I'd asked him to call her, in front of me, to ask the status of the divorce proceedings. He refused to do it, saying it would only make her delay things more.(she was handling it herself, no attorney) After all, my divorce was almost final, and I felt it only fair that if I had done this for OM, he too should show me his true intentions. He never did call her in front of me. I think that they did talk, although he said they didn't. OM never got his own attorney to follow thru on the D.

My advice to you would be to call your H, and not to just use email. The voice is much more personal and powerful than the printed word. I remember that OM's wife did call OM the day after Christmas, to check and see if he at least wasn't 'alone' on Christmas. He said, "I was with my friend." (me) My point is, even though this OM told me he didn't care, had no feelings for her, I didn't quite believe him. If he had no feelings, he could have called her in front of me.
I felt that their relationship was much deeper than he professed, so if he called in front of me than he would have to act 'casual', and she would hear the difference, and he didn't want to do that to her. He also didn't want me to know that they still had any sort of connection.

He returned back to his area after I broke up with him, and after he lost his contract locally. The contract losing came first, and I felt it was God's way of helping me out. I still felt responsible, and OM was kind of a depressive type so I felt doubly responsible--you know, he was a bit of a 'poor me' kind of person.

NOW--this is one part that really helped me. (Forgive me for going on and on, obviously these are things I've told very few people, so I guess I am purging here a bit) I finally confided in a relatively 'new' girlfriend who'd never met my exH about the A, and that the A broke up the marriage. People around me thought I began with OM after separation. (except for a few close members of my family--who were furious with me, of course) I told my 'new' girlfriend that I was staying with OM in part because to break up with him would mean that the whole marriage break up was for 'nothing' except a fling, an A. During the whole R, OM had managed to convince himself it wasn't an A, it was 'love', and I half-believed him. What a fool I was. Anyway, she said to me, "Don't let one HUGE mistake(the A) allow you to make another HUGE one by staying with OM. That R is no good, and you know it." I think many in A's do come to this point of realization, but many are too stuck in the A and too proud to let go of it.

I am sure that your H is going through the same roller coaster ride that I was. He is in a new area, with this new person, right? I would make sure and let him know that you still love him, and that you want to work things out. Maybe I am wrong, but those are words I wanted to hear from my H. I still do.

I think that those of us who have affairs, we're all self-centered and childish. We want everything, without thinking of the DEEP hurt we cause and we don't realize how blind we were until it's too late. Maybe if your husband knows you still love him, and want to work on your problems, then things can work out. Remind him about the years to come- and your shared history. Your children will probably never accept OW. If it's any consolation, I must say my last two Christmas Eves were the saddest of my life. Who was I with ..OM. Children were with father that night. The pain of ripping a family apart is devastating to me. He maybe doesn't see that yet.

One more thing, when I broke up with OM, I suggested that he move back to his own area and reconnect with his W. First he told me he would stay around here, but within a week he was moving back there--using his W's truck to move him, naturally. He told me he was moving back to that area, but not with her. (I don't care either way, and I hung up on him.) But--he told me this after I told him to go back with his wife, he said, "No, it's too late. It wasn't too late before I relocated, but now it is. I moved for you, and now you're leaving me." I don't think it was too late, nor will it ever be with her. She is fifty-one, married to him for 23 years, come on!

Finally, keep this in mind. Even though it was the best thing to do, breaking up with OM was VERY hard on me at first. He'd been my emotional lifeline for almost four years. He knew that I wanted to get back with my H, and one of his parting statements was, "Oh, well, honey, your H doesn't want you back. That's obvious." Nonetheless, I was through with him. I broke up with him over the phone after he returned from a trip to visit his son. I remember falling on my knees, sobbing, and praying for strength to never call or contact this man again. I haven't, although he called a few more times. I did block his email, and now he hasn't called or anything in months.

Thanks for your question about what kind of W I was before the A. He and I were close, and he was my best friend. We shared laughter, love, and a great relationship for years. I was simply childish and too insecure.

While I was embarking and continuing with the A, I knew it was completely self-destructive and harmful, yet I continued. An addict.

Any way you can involve your children more with your H, the better. That will be an 'intrusion' into the fantasy world he has made with the OW---and it will help H see reality better.

I apologize for going on and on. I hope it has been helpful, it is a bit rambling and not organized. Sorry for that!

Please let me know your thoughts on anything I've said that strikes you as applicable.

I actually can think of much more, but once again-- let your H know you love him still Even EX OM complained that his W never said that to him, that she still cared. As I said, I think all of us affairees are very immature and needy.

Take care, HP

PS Call him, don't rely on emails. Every time I heard my ExH voice, it tore me up, and it still does now. REMIND him of you, in a good way. Be soothing and warm.

Thank you so much HP,
I want to re-read your answer and talk to you some more but I am off to visit my in-laws. We are very close and they are devastated. I really appreciate the time you took to write. Don't feel bad about rambling, I do it too it is so wonderful and calming to get things out. I feel your pain of loneliness. I am so lonely too. I am sorry your H is not giving you a chance. You sound truly sincere, life teaches hard lessons. I have learned some too. As I said I will get back to you, your response brings some more q's to my mind. I so want to understand my H and what he is going through. I want him back.

Thanks,
Sharon

Sharon,
Thanks too for your response. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your positive comments about my sincerity. In fact, it made me cry! I truly am sincere in my remorse and efforts to rebuild, but I must admit that at this point it seems very futile.

I'll be looking forward to your response to the LONG posting I wrote when you have more time.

I'm glad to hear your in-laws have been supportive.

Take care,
HP

Hopeful Person,
Thanks, I appreciate you taking time to write a long reply. I don't mind. You might be experiencing the what I call 24/7 stage, where all you think about or want to talk about is your situation. I always wanted to talk about it. I wanted to get it all out. I wanted HELP. I am sure you want help. Sometimes it all seems so hopeless. It must be especially hard for you, because I guess alot of people would not feel sorry for you or want to help. A lot of people have that attitude towards my H. "He made his bed now he has to lie in it." But I think this is as hard on him as it is me. And for you, the horrible feeling of not being forgiven by the one you seek forgiveness from the most. I do feel for you.

As to your response. I WANT to talk to my H. I want to tell him I love him, but he says, "don't drag me back into that" me saying I love you and care, gets the response "You are just trying to make me feel guily" It got to the point where if I said anything about US or R, it was an LB for him. I wish I could say those things. He also wants the D. He says he needs to move on and that I do too. I have told him I want to work on it, that I forgive him, that I know things could be better, the things I have wanted to change. He is a stone wall. He did give it thought before OW arrived but as soon as it was sure she could come it was SHUT DOWN and "I want D asap"

Problem is: I don't even KNOW ANYTHING about them. I don't know if they are together. I think you mentioned that your long distance made it seem more exciting and fantasy. I am afraid that the fantasy will live on. Who wouldn't get excited about a fabulous weekend here and there of sex with a younger person. NO FIGHTING, NO COMMITMENT, NO WORRIES. I can't compete with that.

I know I was a good wife, but maybe he doesn't want to work at a R.

You mentioned talking about your H to OM. I don't think my H does. I think he tries to hide us from her. She is unattached so she is probably not feeling guilty about what she is doing. And my H is probably not saying anything to make her feel so.

Anyway. I am just so frustarted, I, like you, have tried everything with NO RESPONSE. I admire you for hanging on. A lot of people would give up. You must love your H. Maybe sometime he will see that you made a mistake and he will be able to forgive. I think it is harder for a man to forgive. It is a real blow to their ego. My H told me when this first happened that he couldn't believe I was being so kind that he didn't think he could forgive so easily. I read somewhere that women are more affected by the thought of their H having emotional closeness with OW. While for men it is the S3X part.

Anyway, I would like to talk to you some more, but my kids want to use the phone. Do you have kids? I'll get back later. Hope you don't mind me picking your brain. If I can answer any Q's for you I will try. But know I hope the best for you. Take care and be happy that you have chosen the right way.

Sharon

P.S. Just was reading your thread so I see you have kids. What ages? I also see you are really trying with your H. I also feel like I try to hard and pushed too much at first. Sometimes I almost wish I had gotten mad and told my H to hit the road, maybe reality would have set in sooner. Oh well.

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: uteconf footballwidow ]</small>

Thanks so much for your reply!

I will answer it later on, when I have more time to give it my full attention.

I brought home a lot of work tonight, so I need to focus on that right now. (deadlines)

Thanks ,
God Bless,
Hopeful_Person

Thanks Hopeful,
I need some encouragement. I am just about to give up. I wish my WS was like you and would say ANYTHING to give me some hope. I told my WH once when he told me that he didn't want to give me hope that "he couldn't take my hope away anymore than I could give mine to him." I guess I was wrong he has taken my hope away. I can so empathize with you in trying and trying and getting a stone wall in return. It is very hard on one's ego and morale. I don't think I can do it much longer. I still love my H and this holding on is killing me.

Anyway, how are you doing, any silver lining in the black cloud? Hope you did not have to work to hard. I don't have deadlines. That is one of my fears. I have been a SAHM for 24 yrs. I really need to get a good job. I am starting from scratch. So, I hope you are well. Best to you.

Thanks,
Sharon

hopeful,
I just though of another ? Do you think the reason you DE-FOGGED so fast is because H basically Plan B'd you immediately? How fast did you come out? I guess I am not too familiar with your time-line. How did things go, did you express wanting to come back as soon as D-Day. Or did you want to try it with OP first? I am just trying to see if there is any hope. I am afraid my H's A is still mostly long distance. I don't know if OP is with him, UGH, why do I grasp at straws. He hasn't made one move to come back. I know he thought about it before she came. He told me. But he was convinced it would not work. He has not said anything positive since finding out she was coming and since she has arrived. I know they have probably not been together enough for things to go bad. I just don't know.

Anyway thanks,

Sharon

Sharon,

I wanted to let you know that I am sorry for the pain you are going through now. I will answer all of the questions you posed, etc, later on this evening. I am working all day today, and then I have a class to attend tonight.

Just wanted to let you know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

One quick note of encouragement--I didn't defog completely quickly at all. The A lasted quite long. Please don't give up hopes at all yet!

H_P

Thanks HP,
That's okay. It takes a lot of time to post. I think I spend too much time here. I am trying to cut down. I got the impression you started asking for reconciliation right after D-day. Not true? Anyway I will talk to you later. Hope you had a good day.

Thanks again,
Sharon

Hi Sharon,
This has been such a long day! I will do my best now to answer your questions, and I hope my brain is still working. After my class tonight I still had work to do for my job! At least I do feel I got a lot done tonight. Just no R and R today.

You're right, I do think about my situation a lot. (When I'm not working, especially) I don't talk about the situation too much though. I keep my personal life far from my professional life. If I didn't , I would not be too effective at my job. This website is a sheer blessing, to be more 'open' about things. Furthermore, just as you observed, being the former WS and now Exwife--not too many people who know of my situation around me are too sympathetic at this point. It is kind of like they are saying to me, "We learn by our mistakes." One true friend of mine said...in essence ( I can't be so direct here, what she said was humorously rather graphic/profane) "I guess you learned how we can bury our head in the 'sand' and make STUPID choices." She was right!

It's nice that you feel sympathy for your H, and understand that there is pain attached to what he is doing , too. I think your attitude is truly commendable.

I see what you mean about him not being to receptive to hearing 'I love you'. My exH is certainly the same way now. I am so afraid to be me, to just say what I want to say. In your case though, I see it as different. You haven't done him the huge harm he has done you, nor the one I did to my exH. I guess maybe you could instead say, "I just want you to know that I really care about you so much, and I am hoping that you will love me again as I do you. I care about how you feel, and I pray that in time you'll return to me AND our family." I don't know if that's MB approved, but perhaps those words would help him wake up a bit. Others here know so much about the MB principles, I certainly am only learning now.

My exH has been saying this 'move on' thing for a long time now. Maybe it is kind of a male thing to say. (Sorry, men, to make generalizations) Perhaps overall women are more sentimental. I know I certainly am, compared to exH. (Yes, I know, it wasn't too sentimental to cheat on him, you're right) This past summer he took the kids to the same locale and hotel where we'd gone as a family of five for years. I couldn't believe it. I took the kids to a totally different city ..somewhere new for us.

It sounds like he gave you some hope before the OW moved nearby. I wish there were a way you could somehow get more 'reality' into his life. I recall that the 'best times' OM and I had were times when there was nothing to do with reality....my kids, my job...nothing. This is true for all people, I suppose. No added 'real' stress, it's easy to be relaxed ,etc. (sorry to bring up OM, but at this point in my long day, I am beyond self-editing) Could you encourage the children to call him often? That could be a good dose of reality!

Yes, no one can 'compete' with these fun weekends, as you mentioned. However, don't be so sure they don't fight. The OM and I fought , even when he lived long distance. These situations are so ugly, it brought out the worse in me with OM. In time I grew TIRED of OM, and wished for the comfort and stable love of my family. I bet your H will begin longing for that, too. Also, I would imagine that his filing was a result of OW's pushing for him to do that. It can be delayed, the whole process...can't it a bit?

It's kind of you to admire me for hanging on with some hope. I do have it, but then again it just seems that it isn't looking so good. I've seen lots of infidelity in my lifetime, and I've never seen anyone who wouldn't forgive like this. That is just how I see it, I know that he is typical of many males. All I am saying is that it's hard when I hear of this or that person, and the forgiveness, and I can't get even a taste of it. It's like he's hardened himself to all good thoughts of me.

Please don't give up on your situation. D-Day wasn't that long ago for you, really. This OW just moved near him...reality may set in soon. Our D-Day wasn't until after exH and I separated. I was tired of lying, so I told him I wanted to separate. During my A, I seriously thought he knew about it , and didn't much care. That is how bad things had gotten near the end. After separation he asked me about OM, and A , and I told him the truth. He was furious, of course. About two months after that I asked him for a chance, and he said 'NO'. That was in spring 2001. I didn't dump OM. I was truly stunned that my ExH didn't want a chance again, so I thought, Okay..stay with OM, your H doesn't care any way. ExH filed in July, after bothering me to do it for months. I wouldn't do it... Anyway, throughout these past months I've occasionally asked him about trying again, but it's always been 'no'. Finally I dumped OM this summer--mid July. So really, I have been without the OM for a very short time. I asked exH in June if we could delay the D, and of course it was,"no". I wish exH had once asked me for a chance, and to get rid of OM, but he never did. Oh well, that is how it goes.

BTW I was a SAHM too for 13+ years, and I only began this job when I separated. Before that I had just worked 14 hours /week for a few years. Lots of life changes at once! I don't mind my workload too much, but I really miss my ExH.

I just don't see these types of affairs, like mine and your H's..lasting. Please don't give up. In the case of the ExOM, he never did divorce to my knowledge. HIs wife filed BEFORE my ex-H, and to my knowledge nothing more has happened. She, the OM"s wife, would have taken him back when she learned of me in summer 2000. (this is all coming from OM--I never spoke with his wife, naturally) After that point OM and I were still together TWO MORE years. So you can see how messed up both of our families and lives became, and how long it all took.

I knew I should have ended it with OM long, long ago, but I was very weak about it. It truly was like an addiction. I remember feeling self-hatred too, for what I was doing. I come from a long line of people with self-destructive tendencies, and I saw this as 'my' chosen method of sabotaging the happiness I'd found in life. ( I saw all of this rationally, but I couldn't quite stop it. The draw was absolutely hypnotic once I was in it! Unbelievably so intense, hard to explain!)

Hang in there, and try to be patient. Work on being the best you can be, and be as kind to H as you can when you have to deal with him. My exH 's kindness always made me think how hard about how I missed him. Your understanding heart will earn you many points with him. I can only imagine that OW and him are arguing a lot. If not yet, they will. As I mentioned, these situations are too ugly to allow peace to all parties.

THis is long and rambling, exhaustion has set in after this long day.

I hope it's been helpful.

Take care,
H_P

Wow H_p,
Thank you so much. It is really late I couldn't sleep. I really appreciate you taking the time and trouble to answer after a hard day. I am having trouble typing.

Seeing and hearing your viewpoint is most helpful, I can really "SEE" my H in your answers. I am truly sorry that your H will not let the wall break down. Maybe, ?? he wants you to "SUFFER" for awhile. I don't know. This A thing makes both parties a little crazy. I know I am. It does seem to me though that the men have more trouble forgiving and forgetting. Just the way they are built.

Don't get too down reading about the H's who are forgiving. I also get down reading of the WS who come back and ask to reconcile. But each case I guess is different.

It seems tough though to HOLD ON, with no hope from your S. I do realize I am still a short time into this, because OW just got here. It just seems like forever because D-day was further back. I also did not know of OW till after H left, so we were also separted already.

I would encourage you to hold on too. It hasn't been long for your H to process and forgive. I think, like for me, it SEEMS longer. For you it seems longer because you have been living with the pain since your A started. Your H probably still doesn't quite trust that it is truly over with OM and doesn't want to open his heart yet. It is a lot of hurt to take a chance on. I would give him time. Once he sees your sincerity hopefully he will come around. The fact that you have kids greatly enhances this.

I am hoping that even if we D, that sometime down the road things will change. I think H needs to learn the same things that you have learned. I think your H needs time to see what you have learned.

Well I want to re-read your response when I am a little more awake. So I'll keep in touch. Have a good weekend and get some R&R. Thanks again. You have been great.

Sharon

Hello Sharon,

Thanks for your reply. It's been a horrendously busy week, so glad it's Friday evening now.

I'm glad that it was helpful for you to hear my viewpoint. At least that's some good that came out of the mess I created, that I could help you in some small way.

I'm sure your H is very confused and torn at this time. I remember about four months ago, and even back longer--when OM had relocated here and I could REALLY see pretty early on that it was a HUGE mistake. Plus, I knew my ExH didn't want me. At times when I was driving alone in my car, windows up--of course---I would let out a SCREAM. Just to let off the stress, to let off the sheer anger at me over the mess I was in . I knew too that I'd have to dump OM, but even so it did take a lot of nerve and courage in some ways. Even when I knew he was no good at all. My exH is a gem, and here I had basically left him for a man who rarely stuck to his word, a man who was very self-centered, and a man who lied to me AND played mind games with me. What a MISTake! So I am sure that your husband is going through hard times too. The sad part is that we WS's bring it on ourselves, and worse yet we hurt all those around us. That's a horrible realization to come to, but it is true.

Thanks for your empathy, Sharon. We both have a hard time seeing why our spouses can't act the way some of the forgiving BS's and some of the returning, repenting WS"s act here. Nice to know I'm not alone.

Do hold on to your hope. IT is early in your H's and this woman's REAL time together. For me, it was somewhat good, 'novel' at first when he moved here (although there were bad times too, right away) In time it disintegrated into a horrid relationship. It was like a ridiculous teenage one, fighting---the OM wanted only drama. He'd want to get out of the car to walk to his place, he would pick fights, all that sort of thing. I wasn't used to that in my life. My exH is calm , and very kind to everyone. ExOm was upsetting for me to be around. In time your H may discover that the lady is different , too, in person.

BTW, the xOM was also from another country and culture. Those differences were hard to handle, too. Just a thought, but it does create more challenges. What seemed 'charming', 'intriguing' and 'interesting' at first turned out to be very much a 'culture shock' after not too long. All I am saying is that it added to the stress, and your H has that , too.

Thanks for the encouragement. I feel better just knowing that someone believes it is possible that my exH could turn around and love me again someday.

Take care,
H_P

H_P,

Sounds like you had an exhusting week. I don't know but it seems like all this stress makes things harder to do. No matter how easy they used to seem.

It is a hard thing for me. You said you knew OM wasn't as good as your H. I am worried about OW. I think she is probably a nice person. Plus she is YOUNG, smart, beautiful, accomplished, world traveler. Everything I am not. Not to say I am not as good as her in different ways, but we are SO different. I think of them together and I think sometimes, GEEZ if it was me I'd probably pick her too.

I think the hardest part for me if my H returns will be thinking, "He just picked me because she dumped him, I am the booby prize" Believe me I don't feel like that about myself but would always wonder if that is what H was thinking. Maybe that is what your H is thinking. Even though you broke it off. He may still feel like second place. I think for my H and I to recover he would have to prove to me that what he had with OW paled in comparison to what he had with me. That HE wanted ME!!!!!! Not just he got dumped and I was better than the alternitive of being alone.

I would encourage you to hold on to hope too. It is early for your H too. I don't know if you have read any of the Harley stuff, but it talks about the giver and the taker, and that when one person is the giver in the R ( in your case your H) and the other is the taker (you, no offense), that when the taker finally comes around that the person who worked hardest at getting the R back together is often the one who has the most trouble coming back to intimacy. Kind of hard to explain. You should probably read about it. I think it is probably on the site here somewhere. You should also read about the 3 stages of relationships. It helped me. It gave me some perspective of what was going on.

That is interesting what you say about the cultural differences. I remember when H first traveled to Romainia how he said people were just DIFFERENT there. Just an attitude he attributed to living for years in a communist regime.

Also another ?. Do you feel like your leaving your H was all about the OM and A. My H says it has not to much to do with her. Where you having marital problems? We kind of where, no fighting, just withdrawing from each other. But I do feel if OW hadn't come along H would be willing to work things out. I am worried that he has tried to convince himself so much that it isn't about her that it will become true in his mind and that even if it doesn't work out with her he still won't come back. But I really do think we could work it out. We were happy, we had things in common, we have a wonderful family, we got along, we didn't fight, we cared for each other. We just needed a wake up call. I just wish it hadn't been this wake up call. An A is a bad wake up.

Well, I hope you have a good weekend. I keep you in my prayers. I think we are going to be okay. It's funny everytime something bad happens in my life my in-laws say "someday you'll look back on this and laugh" it has always been true. I hope someday my H and I will sit in rocking chairs with our grandkids around us and look at each other, get a knowing grin on our faces that says "we made it" and take each others hand.

Take care,

Sharon_

Thanks, Sharon, for your thoughts. I appreciate it so much.

Yes, work was super busy but in a way it's a blessing. It somewhat takes my mind off the main problem in my life,which is what we're talking about here.

You said,

"It is a hard thing for me. You said you knew OM wasn't as good as your H. I am worried about OW. I think she is probably a nice person. Plus she is YOUNG, smart, beautiful, accomplished, world traveler. Everything I am not. Not to say I am not as good as her in different ways, but we are SO different. I think of them together and I think sometimes, GEEZ if it was me I'd probably pick her too."

Please don't put yourself down that way. I am sure you are also intelligent, beautiful, and accomplished. You might be accomplished in a different way then you perceive OW as being accomplished, but what's the difference? As for being YOUNG, well--that's totally out of our control. In time your H may discover that 'youth' isn't always what a person in their forties needs to have all of the time in their life. And the world traveler part certainly doesn't impress me. It's ironic, Sharon. ExOm was a 'world traveler'. I tired of his wanting to go on some huge trip every time he had a week off of work, or even less time off. It was like he was never satisfied to be in his own home, just being 'himself'. BTW, I never went on any trips with him. ExOM could have planned a world trip, but he couldn't even help me out in normal everyday life circumstances. Your H may discover this, too.

Others here have mentioned exactly what you said, about BS's feeling like the 'booby' prize. They've mentioned too that perhaps my exH would feel this way. All I can say is that in my case the A was about my own problems and MEGAweaknesses, not my ExH's. A's are about feeling 'alive', the jolt of new 'love', excitement. See this as a huge weakness and inner problem in your H, not in you.

I would like to know how to prove to my exH that I want him, and that he's not just the alternative to being alone. I suppose time will help in that regard. If he sees that I'm not with some BF, and I"m waiting for him still years for now--maybe he'll know more how I feel.

I will look more here for the giver and the taker information. Did you buy the books? Which ones did you buy, if you did? I will look too for the three stages of relationships.

As far as your questions about me leaving my H for the OM. Let me explain. The A started on the internet, and went on from there. I decided to separate as I didn't want to continue lying about OM. I should have ended the A, but instead we separated.

ExH and I were getting along pretty well until the EA started online with OM. (exH worked awful hours, I didn't work much--I had too much free time and not enough time with ExH--not making excuses but that contributed to all of it. He worked every weekend, etc.) Even in the beginning of the EA, things were okay. Sadly, ExH used to 'tease' me about my talking with OM online. He didn't show much concern. Once I started PA w/OM, ExH and I weren't 'together' that way anymore. We talked of separating for a long time before separation happened, withouth ExH knowing about OM. He always seemed apathetic to the whole M at that point.

Quite honestly, this never would have happened had I not began chatting online in IM form with men. I never would have sat and had those conversations with any men, in person. I just knew all along that to do so would be very wrong, and dangerous. When I felt myself growing 'addicted' to talking to OM online, I should have told ExH to get rid of the internet, and join me in counseling. But, I didn't. To top it off, exH wasn't ever much of a talker type, and ExOM was a huge talker. Plus, he said what he knew I wanted to hear. It's easy to be who you want to be behind a keyboard!

My ExH also doesn't blame the A entirely for the marriage. He is just apathetic to me completely.

I hope that your husband does return to you. I am sure he may do that when this A blows away. Just continue following the principles here. They work for so many people. Be the best you can be!

One of my close girlfriends was separated from her husband for a little over one year. She said there was never an OW, but who knows. There were rumors and 'sightings' of such in the local community. Anyway, they've been reconciled now for years. He returned after he saw her kind of 'get on' with her life. She got busy in things, and she changed her appearance a bit, and it seemed to wake him up that she might move on and not wait. I only mention this as an anecdote, not advice!

Your in-laws sound wonderful, and supportive. I hope someday too that you can look back at it and grin. You're amazing to even be able to say that.

When I appealed to my exH for reconciliation, I asked him to look down the road 20 years. I told him I wanted to have him sitting with me, but he couldn't say the same thing. In four years if he still feels that way, then I may give up hope on him. As many here have pointed out, even though I've known him now 29 years, he just couldn't believe what I did to him. That's hard to live with!

Thanks for your prayers, I will do the same for you.

H_P

Hi H_p,

What a nice response. Thank you. I don't want to put myself down. I guess in a way that I have the same 'Fantasy' preception of OW that my H does. I keep thinking she's perfect. It is funny because my H has said some of the most "DUH, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING" things to me:

"I am probably making the biggest mistake in my life because as far as good wives go you are the poster child."

Told his best friend "I know what I should do. I should quit my job, go home and start going to church with my family" This is a big problem for him, I am involved in church and he feels looked down upon.

Always telling me what a "wonderful, great, sexy, blah blah blah" person I am.

I just don't get it if I am so wonderful then ????? I guess it is like you say the newness and excitement of new love. But I also agree with you that this whole thing is more about my H than it is about me. Your H sounds like a nice enough person. Maybe, and I really qualify that MAYBE, but let me tell you a little about my sit. with H before A. We had been growing apart for awhile, when he became interested in the OW, I am not sure when it was but can pretty well guess, our R. really suffered. I REALLY began to wonder if I wanted to continue in the M. As I said the A was a huge wake up call for me. Here is the maybe. Maybe your H kind of turned off to the M when things started going downhill. I know I did. I just got tired of trying. I does sound like to me however that you were more of the GIVER in your R emotionally. I was the Giver and it got to be too much. ONLY after reading, praying, thought, IC, talking, did I really see what was going on. I knew I wanted H back but I think if I had not found MB and other things to make me understand what was going on, I might not have been so forgiving and willing. You see by the time my H made his decision about OW, I knew from my reading to expect it. Your H however is working "blind". I think if my H had chosen OW and I had not understood what was happening to him I would have become a ranting, screaming, unforgiving UBER-B****!!!!

I think your H is probably taking this whole thing VERY personally. That is one thing the BS can not afford to do. Because as you said it isn't really about us. I don't know if you get my point but if you read the books you'll understand more.

I read, just borrowed from library:

Surviving An Affair by Harley

Dr. Harley Answers your Q's On:
Your Love and Marriage

Also a GREAT help book for life not just A
7 Habits for Highly Effective People by S. Covey
This is a really good book. I read this over and over too, before I read or knew about Harley and MB. It is the single biggest reason that I did not go off the deep end and start LBing my H from day one. It is really helpful in the Improving YOU category.

Bonds That Set Us Free. sorry I can't remember the author lent it to my brother he bought it for me and I thought he should read it.

I read these over and over night after night. I wanted to understand what was happening because I knew that my H was not a bad person. SURVIVING was especially helpful. I gives real insight into the A process.

I hope that you don't get discouraged coming to this site seeing how these BS's so desperately want to re-unite with their WS. I think this is not the norm. I think more often than not a BS may react like your H. But you do have a lot of history with him and children. You will always be in his life. So I think that gives you a good chance. That is the hard part of all this. Their are NO guarantees. That is why they tell the BS to work on themselves. You cannot change your H. But maybe he will see and be affected by the changes in you.

H_P, I hope some of this helps. You are really helping me. I feel like you and my H have a lot in common in the reasons for your A. So it helps to see "IT" through your eyes. You sound like a good person. It sounds like you haven't been really awful to your H. My H has actually been very kind to me, well, compared to most of what I see on this site. I hope you can forgive yourself, for what you did. It is harder to forgive ourselves than others for hurting us. But I think it will be a big step in YOUR recovery no matter the outcome with H. I hope my H can forgive himself. I think it will be a BIG stumbling block for him. But you have taken the first big step, acknowleging your mistake and trying your best to "right" the wrong.

Take care and have a relaxing weekend. Be good to yourself.

Sharon

Hi Guys,

I was just wondering how you both were this weekend. Sometimes I wish we all lived nearby so we could meet for coffee and just cry and chat together.

Keep believing in youself and in each other.

Hi Kily,

Thanks, I also wish I has someone to chat with and share. I do have friends but this stuff is our of the realm of most friendly conversation.

So feel free to chat here anytime. I am going to read your weekend update. Hope things are going well for you.

Sharon

Hi !
Thank you Sharon and Kily for your thoughts. This is such a wonderful forum--MB. It sure has been a blessing. I want to answer your posts here, and then I'll tell you what happened last evening.

I think it's encouraging, Sharon, that your husband told his best friend that he knows what he should do. When the fog lifts for him, those seeds of wisdom that are already there should begin to grow. That certainly happened to me. The difference will be that it seems that you are willing to forgive and work on recovery.

I remember even before I separated after PA had started that I had thoughts of ending the A. I just didn't have the strength at that point, and my ExH and I had grown apart. I stupidly thought I wouldn't be able to get the thought of OM out of my system. How foolish! As I said before, it is the newness and excitement of someone hovering over you, giving attention to your every desire and whim. Very much fantasy, no reality.

Sounds like your H reached out to this person, or vice versa, when you were at a 'low' point in the marriage. That is what always seems to happen. Instead of reaching to our spouses, us WS's looked elsewhere for 'answers'.

I appreciate your insight into the idea that I may have been the Giver in the marriage for a long time. I think it might be true, but he was giving, too. It's just that he didn't want to deal too much with what I said I needed, etc.

Thanks too for the insight about coming here, and all that you learned here. My H said he looked here once, per my suggestion, and thought it was all silly and didn't make sense. He has never been overly analytical, he just sees everything as black and white. Yes, he is taking it personally, but he won't even listen when I tell him that it wasn't about him. He is very shut off from hearing me at all.

I did read online here about the Giver and the Taker and the three stages in a relationship. Thanks! Very helpful. I will also check into buying or borrowing from the library the books you mentioned. It sounds like you went through a lot of self reflection and read a lot! My exH says that it made him mad whenever I suggested books to read. HE said, "I should be fine just as I am, without some dumb book to read." Do you see what I am up against here?

I am trying to not be encouraged by seeing all of the BS's here who forgive, while mine doesn't thus far. I still can't believe it, I thought he'd love me forever.

Thanks for the compliments. I have always tried to be a good person with integrity. The A was totally out of character. People who knew me, and know of it...are floored by it, that I did this. I was the Sunday School teacher, volunteer type, earth mother nurturer woman. No one can believe I did this.

I still really haven't forgiven myself for it. I don't think I ever will, in many ways. It was just that I hurt not only him, but my whole family and most of all my children by depriving them of an intact family.

Thanks, Kily, for your words of friendship and kindness. Even though we aren't sitting together in person, I feel that you and all the others here have touched my lives and been helpful! Thanks so much. How was your weekend? I will look for a thread when I 'm done here.

ExH brought the boys home last evening, our daughter stays with me every weekend now. ExH and I both had to fill out the same sort of paperwork, so I suggested we fill it out together. (tax type stuff) I brewed fresh coffee, offered that--no thanks. I offered soft drinks, other beverages..no thanks. We sat and did the paperwork in a business like fashion. I feel that I am natural, and laugh, etc..he is super stiff and formal. It took about 10 minutes.

I then mentioned a few household maintenance items. In the past he's offered to do repairs, but he didn't last night. I was ready to cry, out of upset at the money I'd have to pay someone when he could do it so quickly. I guess I shouldn't have felt this way, but here's why. He repairs things for my siblings,(annual income of my sibling- 150 grand + a year) his co-workers, and he didn't want to do it here this time. He has before, I couldn't see why not. He could use the time with our sons, and teach them a bit, too. So I said, "Well, I'll pay someone to do it, and it will be hundreds." He then said he would do it. I wasn't trying to guilt him, but it is just that if I am broke, then our children are broke, too. BTW , exH makes A LOT more than I do,right now I am not doing so well as I have no overtime. Money is very tight for us at this time.

Anyway, we went outside to look at the problem. Nothing personal was said. I sat down on one of the chairs outside, and he went in to say goodbye to the kids. I could feel tears welling up fiercely. He came out, and said 'bye' with a cool wave of his hand. That was it.

I came inside and burst into horrible crying, privately. My daughter, age 19, could tell when I emerged from the bedroom that I'd been crying. She is sweet, she merely came and sat by me and put her arm around me.

One more thing, he wrote out the child support check while here. He forgot to fill some of it out. He did that another time, a few weeks ago. Normally he doesn't do this sort of thing, when he and I were together, that is. I suppose that he is upset when he is around me, so he forgets things. So, I guess even though he doesn't show it, I must have some 'effect' on him, although it appears to be nerves and no warm fuzzy feelings. So be it!

Whew..this was long. Thanks to both of you for your replies. I appreciate your insight very much.

I am remaining patient, but it's just at times I feel that my exH prefers to be alone. He 's never once said he misses living with the kids and me. That to me is very sad. Once I asked him if he missed living here. His answer was 'No." Maybe he wasn't being honest, and just trying to hurt me. Understandable.

How was your weekend, Sharon? I will read your update now, too.

Thanks for listening,
H_P

H-P,

I am truly sorry for what you are going through. I understand the pain in your heart. I know that in a sense we are on different sides of the coin. But the pain we feel is the same. We want our family intact and our loved one to love us in return. I do feel that your pain is perhaps more intense than mine, and for that my heart aches for you. It seems a terrible burden you bare. I don't know if you believe in God, but he does forgive. And he forgives us as we forgive others, including OURSELVES. Forgive yourself.

I am sorry you and I cannot control how our spouses feel and act. It is all so sad. I just made my 'leap of faith' you can read about it in my thread. It will be the end all be all turning point in my story.

I don't know why but talking to you the last little while made me ready. Something just clicked. Orchid, LOR, you and others. It all finally came together. Thanks.

It sounds like your H is really in withdrawal. That is especially hard on you I know. My H was in withdrawal before he left. It is a sad, sick, lonely feeling to be on the receiving end.

If you read my other post you might get the impression that I don't want to work on my M anymore. That couldn't be further from the truth. But I have finally realized I have done all I can do. It is up to my H and the Lord now.

I think H_P you will also get to this point. Where you know you have done all you can do. And you can truly say "I did my best". And accept the outcome of your hard work to make up for your mistake. I pray the peace of that feeling for you. I pray you will find comfort. I pray you will feel the love of forgiveness. I pray that you and I will find happiness inside ourselves, and be strong enough to share our strength and happiness with others.

Thanks for your help and support. Talk to you again soon

Sharon