In reading the posts on this forum, and in looking at my own over the past few months, I'm coming to the realization that there are "zones" in recovery, kind of plateaus, and then you either go up or down. I think I must be in the Twilight Zone.

It's not just a cute term or play on an old theme. In a sense, it's real. In Cannery Row, John Steinbeck wrote about a sense of "evil" over the row that eminates from one incident, then eventually cracks and goodness comes in.

I imagine we can all relate to that sense of evil. It creates a dark shroud that kind of greys everything and creates a false twilight.

But what exactly is that zone? It comes about when we quit asking am I doing this or that right, is it right to ask about this, is what he or she's doing good or bad. It comes when you know the rules, understand basically how you should proceed and really have to make that decision whether you want to move or not.

See, I think I'm getting this point nailed in my head rather rudely these days. FWS and I are in this weird limbo where she's nice, but not going overboard to show her love and commitment and desire to keeping the marriage. I wondered if this was strange, if perhaps I was being set up for a fall, so to speak. But, in looking over the posts, and talking to a few good friends on this board, I'm seeing that it is the time when I have the power of choice. And that choice is desperately unsettling.

This is when all I've learned comes into play. My marriage is laid out before me. As my FWS said, we have blank pages of a book to write in, but we cannot write too far ahead, or we won't get there. She used to say she saw us old together, but not how we'd get there. That was mostly my fault, as I talked of the future as a way to guarantee that no matter what, she'd be in it. That was the child in me needing reassurance, and in doing that, I didn't do the things daily necessary to keep the marriage healthy. I simply wasn't engaged because I knew it would eventually all work out.

Now we're here. The future is to be written, but my child wants those reassurances. The logical adult raises his Spock eyebrow and reminds me that it's one day at a time. The nuturing adult says quit worrying about the past. The child, though, is screaming.

It's not a trust issue now. It supersedes trust. For if you put your trust in the person you're with, you CAN get hurt again. Happens all the time. I must find my way through this twilight zone by trusting myself.

I'm not Plan A'ing or B'ing, and suppose if it comes to a crossroads I'll do one or the other. What I'm trying desperately to do is simply be a good guy once again. I have been, but have realized that there is much much much more to be done.

So I'm saddened, in a way, when I see people looking for some sort of sign that it will all work out in the end. That tells me that there are a lot of people like me in the Twilight Zone. Maybe we're all in that zone.

But the way out may be more in our hands than we think. My FWS is waiting, I know, but not sitting still. She will continue with her life, with our without me, and that's unsettling. If I get my figurative **** together, then maybe -- and it's a big "MAYBE" -- we'll be a happy camper couple. I'd say "once again" but the past was hideously disfigured.

I know if it ends tomorrow, her reasoning would be that I couldn't get over it. She'd be right. That's what being in the Twilight Zone is all about.

It always comes back to that, doesn't it? Choices. We all have choices. My spouse isn't mentally impaired or suffer from some sort of bizarre psychological complex. We can reason our way around all the whys and wherefores, but the reality is, she's a person, just as screwed up as me and you and every one else in the party.

Interestingly, I've looked at the past three months for patterns. I've seen them, those climbs to plateaus, and each plateau was caused by my insistence to not only gaze at the carnage, but also to be openly introspective about me, her and the whys and wherefores. That was fine for a while, but when we both agreed to move forward, she did so happily and eagerly and with great joy. Then, I'd revert to a deep, dark "let's look at the real root of the problem" mode. She likened that to a kick in the teeth, and she has learned to mistrust my effort to get better.

She said I had to learn to be confident with myself. Well, I'm in that Twilight Zone, boys and girls.

Anyone got any suggestions for getting out? No, of course not. You can't answer those questions. Only I can. Because, in a way, we all have our Twilight Zones.

Just food for thought on what really isn't such a bad day. She kissed me and said she loves me. So that's a start.

Chorus,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> FWS and I are in this weird limbo where she's nice, but not going overboard to show her love and commitment and desire to keeping the marriage. I wondered if this was strange, if perhaps I was being set up for a fall, so to speak. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am finding myself exactly where your wife is. I too, am a FWW, I love my H so much. But as time goes by I feel myself thinking "is he ever going to get over it". At the first start of recovery I was over anxious to show my love, prove to him that I was worthy of getting another chance. It has been almost a year since true recovery began, and now I think is the rest of my life going to be this huge test. Why can't he "be more confident", why must he always question me. I guess that is part of the mind set of the WS, the "get over it" attitude. But then again I too know the other side of that coin, I was a BS also. I think sometimes "Why have I gotten over this and he can't". Every action I take boils back to my A. I have this attitude "if it works, it works". I used to care now sometimes it feels like more trouble than it is worth.

Recovery, overall has been great. And I am much happier with my M than I ever was before. We have gotten past previous issues that caused an envirnoment for both our A's to occur. Now we are resting at this place where the A's themselves are an issue(and they don't want to go away).

Do you, as a FBH, feel a need for your W to reassure you all the time? And if so do you think that need will lesson in time? And do you think that there is anyhting you FWW could do to help you get past this place you are stuck?

DU

Chorus:

"She said I had to learn to be confident with myself."

You have 2 learn 2 be confident with yourself.

du:

"Do you, as a FBH, feel a need for your W to reassure you all the time? And if so do you think that need will lesson in time? And do you think that there is anyhting you FWW could do to help you get past this place you are stuck?
"

As a FBH, or maybe even still a BH (in some sense, because contact isn't over), I would say that I certainly feel the need 2 be reassured by my WW that we'll "make it." But how *I* feel about it and how *I* recover from the past 12 years is entirely up 2 ME, not her. So, I don't think there's anything that my W needs or even can do necessarily 2 get me unstuck.

Only I don't think I'm so stuck anymore. I'm reading Greg Baer's book "The Truth about Relationships", and applying "unconditional love" 2 my own healing, and it's rubbing off on my W's behavior 2ward me. Will it perform "miracles?" I think so. But even if our M were 2 not survive (a possibility, even now), I have learned how 2 love my W in a very different way than ever before. I love her for who she is, and what kind of person she is, not for what I imagine she's "done 2 me" over the past 12 years. In so doing, I've taken a tremendous pressure off her, such that we're having a marvelous time (in spite of all the crap we're having 2 deal with rebuilding our house after the fire a year ago). So, I think our M will survive and be better than it was. But even if it doesn't, I can still love my W for who she is. I don't have 2 be with her 2 appreciate the person she is. And by recognizing THAT, I don't put undue pressure on her 2 "come around, or else." Which feeds back in2 the "miracle" healing from our past.

Hi Chorus! I think this zone concept you described is very real for those in recovery. I can tell you after 14 months post DDay, that I've plateaued and pressed forward several times.

And I've had all the thoughts you've expressed about your FWS, too. They show signs of remorse, but for some reason the inner child wants more demonstrations of sorrow and acknowledgement for the hurts they caused. More kisses for the boo-boos. And they get to a point that they are sick of wallowing in it and want us to simply buck-up and show some confidence in their words and actions.

I think the key to this is to lay it on the line and tell them that there are times - thankfully less and less of them as time progresses - that you need extra assurances of things getting better. I think its also important learn to develop the habit of dreaming together again to visualize where you're going. Most couples in crisis, I've found, long ago ceased to dream of their lives together and that's part of the problem that led to dreaming outside the marriage and eventually an A.

My FWH is at the same point your wife is. He wants to move on and past my sporatic sad moments. He says my sadness makes him sad. Well, duh. If I could plaster on a happy face that was real 24/7 I'd do it, but I'm human too. I think they forget sometimes that their explanation of bad behavior as being human can just as easily be shared.

Keep posting. I've lurked and posted a few times and I think there is wisdom in learning from others that have pushed through the pain and onto other plateaus. I think that's the key.

pendragon

The question of reassurance:
Yes, definately. 24/7, preferably. But, part of growing up is learning to read the reassurances that are that, and realizing you ain't necessairily gonna get it when you want it, so you have to find it yourself.
That's the hard part. An "I love you" for it's own sake, not as part of a string.
And should they over-reassure? Hmm. Depends on personality, I think. If you're a reasonably sound person with good self-esteem, maybe so. But a person with low self-esteem, such as myself, needs it and craves it, and feeding it too much could create a downward spiral.

The mention of slapping on happy faces: She contends she has done this by and large for our marriage. I agree, but counter she didn't take the necessary steps to really let me know what was what. Doesn't matter,though. Ithink sometimes we do have to slap on the happy face. I do so thinking it will eventually become permanent.

Should the BS just get over it? YES. Why spend your life in hell? If it all goes south tomorrow, at a minimum, you can say you damn sure tried.

Just thoughts.

Chorus:

"She said I had to learn to be confident with myself."

You have 2 learn 2 be confident with yourself.

"If you're a reasonably sound person with good self-esteem, maybe so. But a person with low self-esteem, such as myself, needs it and craves it, and feeding it too much could create a downward spiral."

What do you need 2 do for YOU in order 2 change your low self-esteem 2 high self-esteem? I can see this dilemma in my own sitch. My W and I both had low self-esteem, I feel. By "needing and craving" it from her, I set her up for disappointing me and her both. If she doesn't give me reassurance, I'm depressed. If she gives me 2 much reassurance, it seems fake and I'm depressed. Same goes for her and any efforts she's tried. What 2 do? Change the subject. Hope for the reassurance, but don't dwell on getting it "or else." Cherish the time you have 2gether. It could certainly be worse (it was, remember?). Cherish the love that you have for each other. Focus on those things.

I beleive that one thing that can help the BS move forward is to separate the A from the FWS. If the WS has acknowledged his/her mistake in having had the A and has shown to have learned to avoid falling into another one in the future, then the BS MUST, for everybody's sake, separate the sin from the x-sinner so to speak. The A is in the past, and thus unreachable to anybody but God, but the FWS and BS are here right now writting new chapters in their lives and much more aware of the dangers that are out there that can destroy a happy and healthy M. In the beginning our minds may buy this kind of reasoning intellectually but not emotionally. It takes constant reminding until the emotional side of our minds finally accepts the truth in it.

A few more thoughts for today to add to your thread...

No doubt, moving on and getting on with life is all of our goals. The problem comes in when you apply real people to logic models and it just doesn't come out the same. No real revelation to those in recovery.

Time is such a great healer - but so is attitude. I've read some of your posts Chorus, and I can identify fully with your cyclic swings. I'm right there too. Fortunately, with the addition of time, my swings are getting farther apart. I read the same from other long term survivors.

I used to beat myself for feeling needy in wanting reassurances that all was well. I came to realize that that need was not so much fueled from my neediness - but more so from my inability to trust my own processing of feedback and cues. When your whole world is in upheaval from a betrayal of this magnitude, it just stands to reason anyone would be a little unsteady and unsure. The WS needs to understand that and be willing to assist during the rebuilding, I think.

On the other hand, I've also known of folks that seem to wallow in this misery. They relish every detail and wear their sorrow like a badge. They flock to other miserable folks and each one feed the other's misery. I can't participate in that. A downward spiral is their future if they don't get off the train and break the cycle.

I don't think you're one of the latter group.

Just some thoughts.

pendragon

Hi Chorus,

Yes there are different stages...zones if you want to call it that. Each "zone" has its lessons, and I really believe that we don't move to a new stage until we've learned the lesson in current stage.

That's why the repeated "chorus" (heehee) around here "It takes time, give it time".

Self-esteem, like happiness, has to come from within. If you are looking to your spouse to make up for your weakness in this area, you are going to be disappointed. It also makes you unattractive - who wants to be with a needy insecure person?

Self-esteem comes from doing esteemable things - it doesn't come from what others think or say about you.

I had zero self-esteem before my husband had his affair. As a result, my husband found the OW irresistable - she was confident, didn't mind asking for what she wanted and needed, expected to be treated like a princess and therefore got it.

She didn't get treated like a princess with the result that she FELT like one.

She acted like one, treated HERSELF like one, and expected others to do also.

It definitely worked on my husband thats for sure. He wanted to be out with the princess than with the needy, demanding, yet personally unassertive, "whatever you want dear" woman who respected herself less than others.

So since I had no self-esteem already - conventional wisdom says I should have been totally destroyed by my husband's rejection and affair. Well...I was....BUT I was already working on those issues, and kept plugging away at myself regardless of what my husband was doing.

What I discovered during his affair was that I *could* live without him. I *could* single-parent, I *could* manage my life and all its challenges without him. And since I focused on MY problems, I had time to focus on what I wanted, liked and needed. While he was out running around with OW, I was "finding" myself.

So in the end, I had MORE self-esteem, MORE confidence, and alot more self-respect. And amazingly, my husband just loved those changes in me. I can't tell you how proud he is of me these days - and doesn't mind telling me...and course it is wonderful to be admired by one's spouse, but it is even more wonderful to receive that admiration as "icing" on our relationship, rather than as a necessity to shore up my personal self-esteem and confidence.

It is one thing to expect our spouses to meet our emotional needs...its something else entirely to make them responsbile for our self-esteem and happiness. That kind of expectation is what builds resentment and victimhood, and drives up walls between couples.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: still forever hers ]</small>

So, if I read correctly, SFH -- Relax, live it one day at a time, follow the plan and enjoy the ups rather than dwell in the downs?

P.S. -- I need some work done on my house. Wanna drop by? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: still forever hers ]</small>

Real house, figurative house... they both need work. And yes, cable, in all it's really expensive digital glory.

Now, the hard question: What was the "shared vision" of your M? Can you put it in words?

Thank you for your description of The Twilight Zone. I understand where I am now. I am so tired of people telling me I'll just be in limbo until I decide what is best for me. I have to decide whether I'm staying or leaving. If I knew which were better, the choice would be easy. It's not knowing what to do that leaves me stuck here in the endless gray zone.

BrambleRose - I was the one full of self-esteem, plans, and energy before WHs A. OW was and still is, a very needy, demanding, selfish, suicidal mess who even ran off for my H, leaving her preschoolers behind with her BS. Don't think your H had the A because of anything you did. He did it because he's selfish and self-indulgent. After d-day I was destroyed. I haven't even been able to hold a job since then, and it will be one year since d-day, next week. I have zero self esteem today.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: still forever hers ]</small>