I listened to Dr Harley on his wife's radio show via the internet today.

If I understood him right he was recommending to a woman who was seperated from her WH that since they were seperated then she should move to Plan B and he also said something about figuring out a way to break up the A.

This doesn't sound at all like what I've read on this board, in SAA, or what is printed on this website.

I understand that each case is unique, but it sounded like he was making a rather general statement.

My understanding was that the BS shouldn't do anything to intentionaly break up the A. Just Plan A the best that they can until the A dies a natural death or until the BS can't take it any more and is dangerously low in their LB toward spouse.

Input from those who truly understand Plan A and B. I've heard so many interpretations on these boards that it becomes confusing sometimes.

I've heard many BS mention that they are "Plan Aing their spouses". Doesn't make sense since I understood Plan A to be something you were doing for your self, not the WS.

Thanks and God Bless.

Biscayne...

I don't know about 'breaking' up the A... but not shrouding it in secrecy.... getting it out into the light of day is an important element... most affairs don't survive two years past the light of day... 6 mths-2 yrs, I believe, are his statistics...

It is not that you have to be intentional or cruel... just that there are natural consequences of an A, and the BS tendency is to shield the WS from those consequences (I still do this to some extent).

Don't keep the secret.
Don't shield them from natural consequences.

That would be my take.

Cali

Since I didn't hear the broadcast myself, I'll only be guessing, but I'll do it anyway...

Sure, Plan A is designed to help the BS make themselves better... it also buys time for the natural death of the A... it also doesn't say anything about enabling the A by hiding it, etc. - so shining a bit of light on it is certainly NOT non-MB (got the double-negative?).

I was advised by SH to confront OM #2, back in Feb'02. I did so in March, and it put a serious dent in the fantasy bubble of THAT particular A of my WW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

And I've heard others talking about advice from JH along the lines - especially for BW's - to go to Plan B fairly quickly... I think BW's have a rough time with a long Plan A.

So I dunno... could very well be consistent.

Biscayne,

Both plans are for the benefit of the BS not the WS.

When BS say they are plan Aing the WS, it is a misleading concept that it is being done for the WS benefit. The only benefit to the WS should be that they see the BS bettering themselves and notice those changes. In reality it widens the gap between the WS and BS. Since the WS oftens tries to damage the BS' reputation but in reality damages their own spousal reputation in order to promote the WS reputuation (thereby causing the 'alien' effect).

Plan B is when the effects of plan A (BS bettering themselves) nears completion (as much as humanly possible). The BS realizes they are no longer the cause of the A nor one of the contributing factor but rather the WS bears the brunt or ownership of where the A is going. So plan B is done as a protection of family, sanity and finances.

Plan B is done knowing it can lead to D or separation or reconciliation. Nonetheless, it is a desired step by the BS since the plan A appears to be enabling the WS. In a true desire NOT to enable the A, the BS reaches an emotional level where they are strong enough to implement a good plan B.

This may initially cause an out of balance condition with the WS and OP. It may even cause false recovery mode. The point is that now it is not a case of the BS having to prove anything (been there - done that). If a reconciliation is to occur, the WS must put forth the effort and win back the love and trust that has been lost. It is a hard step. The BS should not minimize the efforts of the WS towards recovery......don't baby the WS nor take their blows for them.

JMHO, of course.

L.

Just to add it is important to remember that the situations are unique. This is why MC and IC is often so important rather than relying on the board.

In my case I was doing a Plan A for myself under fairly extreme circumstances.

Steve H specifically altered his normal recommendations for me because of my situation. That was to Plan A as much as I could but the pain and abuse being inflicted by interaction with WS would slip me into Plan B.

Due to WS it was very important that I did NOT deliberately move to Plan B myself. This was contra to the normal views here on the board. But Steve was spot on and this is exactly what happened. Just my £0.015p

Neil.

The major mistakes I see in Plan A are:

1) The BS doing nothing to interfere or attempt to break up the affair in acceptable ways.

2) Plan A’ing for too long, to the point that it becomes a lifestyle with great payoff for the WS and little for the BS.

3) Tip toeing around the WS by not telling them how the affair is hurting the BS. Basically acting as though the BS is afraid to upset the WS in any matter. This can lead to great emotional abuse of the BS.

4) The BS does not do Plan A for the WS or for themselves. It is done to break up the affair and begin marital recovery.

While becoming a better, more patient, more loving spouse can be a side affect of plan A, that is not it’s purpose. Plan A is a strategy to separate the spouse from the lover. (Or perhaps to pull a spouse out of deep withdrawal, but that's not your issue right now.) Nothing more, nothing less. Plan A will not save or restore your marriage. It is simply a tool to show your spouse that you recognize the contribution you've made to the deterioration of your M, and that you are willing, able, and determined to change those things.

Plan A is also about meeting needs as much as you feel you can. If you can make love with your H and not go away angry and resentful... go for it!! But if not, then Be pleasant, courteous, thoughtful, respectful. No demands, no disrespect, no losing your temper, no dishonesty, and no doing things that annoy or offend your spouse. (annoying behavior does have a qualifier when there is an A, and we will talk about that too.) Plan A is not about being perfect, being a doormat, or being a perfect doormat!

Plan A can be done in a letter if that is all you can muster. Plan A should have a deadline, as it's not an indefinite lifestyle choice. Most women cannot do Plan A as long as men. Some cannot even do it for a day, the pain of knowing their H is with OW is too great. Most women plan A for about 2-3 weeks, most men for about 6 months. Plan A is not a life style.

When it is said that the BS should do nothing to break up the affair, it’s a bit of a misleading statement. Plan A and Plan B are attempts to break up the affair. Acceptable and unacceptable ways to break up an affair.

It is unacceptable to try breaking up the affair using tactics such as threatening or using violence, stalking either the WS or the OP.

Acceptable ways to put pressure on the affair in Plan A/B:

1) Plan A and then if necessary Plan B.
2) Tell everyone: your parents, his parents, your religious leader, your other loved ones and close friends. Ask for their support in ending the A and saving your marriage.

3) Tell the WS that they are hurting you (the BS) every time there is contact. Do not give the WS the impression that you can get by.

4) Tell the WS that they are offending you grievously, that you are hurt beyond belief and that you are in pain. All of this helps break the shroud of secrecy and protection around the affair. It puts pressure on the affair.

5) Confront the OP. Tell OP that you love your WS and that you want your marriage to survive. Tell OP that he/she is contributing to the destruction of your home and your family. Beyond this do not contact the OP. Do not set up a relationship with them. They are incidental to the problems in your marriage. Given time the affair will almost always end whether or not you and you WS remain together. Affairs are based on fantasy. Tell the OP’s spouse.

6) Tell your children. Yes... tell them. They already know, so give them the gift of honesty.

7) Now, in the interim, there are things you can do. Confront the OW.

8) If your spouse is in the military talk to the Chaplin, their commander, family support and anyone else you can to get support. Their commander can put a lot of pressure on them, change their assignment to interfere with the affair, and so forth. Criminal charges can be filed. And so forth.

This will make the WS angry. The Policy of Joint Agreement does not apply. The marriage has already been breached. Telling is a way of stopping the bleeding so to speak. A way to end the A, to pick of the pieces of the destruction he is wreaking.

Affairs do not survive in the light of day. Doing everything you can to end it is encouraged. Once again, this is against every instinct we have, but it works.

Affairs do not last long when the OP is meeting limited needs and the WS is just having a wonderful time having their cake and eating it too. All the while the BS is.

Plan B is risky. At first it will certainly push the WS into the arms of the lover. But almost all affairs die a natural death. And that is hastened by being exposed to the light of day. Affairs exist and thrive only in secret and in fantasy. Once the harsh realities of life... kids, schedules, finances, laundry (!!) intrude, they lose their appeal.

Soon the arguments set in, withdrawals to the LBnk are made and the A comes to an end.

The time to go to Plan B is when: You are LBing more? Not sleeping well? Poor appetite? Losing your ability to concentrate? These are things that you need to take into account. Plan A is not sustainable indefinitely, and the more your love bank drains, the harder it will be to continue.

The 2 biggest mistakes with Plan B are not going to Plan B in time, and not insisiting on the conditions for recovery. NO ONE wants to do Plan B. It goes against every instinct we have. But MB is about going against instincts. Harley says it over and over again on every topic he covers. Doing what our instincts tell us to do only gets us into trouble.

A Plan B letter should be short and to the point. It must include these

1. I love you

2. I married you for life. I want to stay married to you.

3. This thing you are doing is too painful for me to bear; it is destroying the love I have for you.

4. As long as you have contact with this person, I cannot see or speak to you.

5. When this affair ends, I would love to discuss reconciliation and recovery with you.

6. Until then I ask that you not contact me. All issues relating to children/finances/etc should go through____ who is acting as intermediary.

Great post Zorweb.

I just want to add that another reason why it's dangerous to stay in plan A for too long is that by the time the A is dead and the WS shows interest in coming back to rebuild the M, the BS already has lost too much love for the WS and is no longer interested in reconciliation and heads straight to divorce. A good example of this is the case of thejohnsmith in his thread Her A is Ending .

There is so much emphasis on ending the A and plan A, that people lose sight of the fact that ending the A is just one of two equally important parts in rebuilding the M. The second, and probably toughest part, is recovery. If the BS has very little love left for the WS, the recovery part may already be doomed because the BS will not put the sufficient effort to work his/her part and may use the WS's equally lukewarm response as enough proof to jettison the M and head straight to divorce. This is why plan B is an important component to the goal of rebuilding the M.