As is usual, 2long, you are pretty much right on the money. Even as an atheist, you see what I already knew as a Christian and have failed to rely on. That God has a plan for me in this, only I have REFUSED to see it as I try to get my way...in my time.

Again, you're post is right there. I dont want to be stuck in this foxhole again. I may have screwed things up during a ceasefire, popped off a couple rounds when I wasnt supposed to, and now I am right back where I was...only worse because this had been the first time in all of this that she finally started showing me that she understood what was going on, what she had done, and there was remorse.

So, Mortarman is back in Battle Plan B instead of ceasefire negotiations. I have pulled back the big guns (the divorce.custody stuff) again...for the 4th time (sounds like I got a hairtrigger doesnt it?). I wish I could pull those rounds back, or at least make her see that they were an accident. But alas, a round fired is a round downrange. Now I must make a BDA (Battle Damage Assessment) and figure out what's next.

The one thing I have found out in this, and it has to do with God so I might put it in its own separate post today, is that I have been very disobedient in trying to do things my way, instead of His. If I could just relax and not try to solve everything at once, then the OM would already be gone. I am my own worst enemy.

Mortarman trying to win the peace. I am good at the war stuff...the peace stuff I keep screwing up.

Out.

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

JL:

Roger. Wilco.

Out.

(and thanks for the butt kicking! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

BTW JL: Do you suggest Plan B, or some other Course of Action? WW not in talking or anything else mood.

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Hi Mortar,

Concentrate on you and kids. It isn't over until the Judge says so.

I know I have told you bits and pieces of my past, so I can help you understand things that have worked for me. So, I will do so again. This time, I have to go back farther.

My H and I were not m when we had our first two children. He was finishing up his last year of school when S#1 was born, 6 months later I am pg again with S#2, he started changing sometime just before he was born and within 6 mo after he was born. I didn't understand what was goiing on. He was never home, didn't want me around. I don't know if he was cheating while I was PG. We had discussed getting M when his brother had leave from the army. We got word of his leave, planned s#2 christianing, and was going to start making simple wedding arrangements. My H wanted to introduce a mutual female friend of our to one of his softball buddies. They go to the bar after the game, so she met them up their. She did not want to alone, so she brought a friend. He friend and my H hit if off. Christianing comes, and he stalls about wedding plans. Next thing I know, he is making excuses to be with her. Pretenses of introducing her to others. I started getting phone calls from friend of mine who saw him with her, and our mutual friend called to apologize to me. She did not intend for this to happen. I confronted him, he denied it. One month later he moves to a friends house. The only thing is, a friend of mine lived in this neighborhood and had to drive past his friends house to get to work daily, so needless to say, I knew she was their almost daily. During this time, I'm crying, begging, yelling at him about her, asking him to come back and try to make it work. This went on for about 6 months. Finally I gave up (if I knew about the Harley's stuff, you could say I went into plan B, except this plan be was with all intentions of moving forward without him). When I stopped trying to make it work, he started coming around. Because I was not going to trust him again, I let him lead the course of the R. I didn't bring up OW. When he did, it was usually something dumb, such as, you might hear rumors of her telling people I'm her boyfriend, because she has some guy bugging her and won't leave her alone. I didn't buy into that. I told him that playing those kinds of games are very highschoolish, and she should just tell him to get lost. I didn't say what I thought, which was, you are just trying to CYA, because, you don't want it getting back to me that you two are acting like boyfriend and girlfriend. Some would say because we were not married and he left that we no longer had a R. There is a ring of truth there. However, in my mind, we had a family together and were a month away from being M. I felt that we (me and the boys took first priority and that she is the OW). Anyway, when I stopped the LB's things turned around. The mistake I made, which is why things are the way they are now, is we didn't resolve past issues. I went into the M with anger and distrust. So, now, when the time is right, I will do what has to be done to either save my M or save me.

Anyway, the point to this is, I was once where you are. Trying to fix the M, trying to get them to see things your way. Trying to force things to happen. Stop trying to force things and let it happen. The A will stop, when you quit trying to make it end. Now, the second time around, it is easier to deal with. I have my moments. He knew it. I spent about 2 weeks in a depression. My H noticed. He didn't know what to do. I'm glad he didn't ask. I probably would have told him what I thought of him. (would have been a very huge LB). I'm not saying that you will have a second A to contend with. When the time is right, resolve the anger and bitterness. When she wants to come home, that is when you can make sure that OM is gone.

The point to this is, we all LB'ed in the beginning of the discovery of the A. We all tried to fix things. That does not work. Will not work. Some have made a recovery, once they stopped trying to force things.

Keep faith and work on you and kids. Start a hobby. Start a hobby that you can do with kids. Keep busy

<<<If she asks, you can be honest and tell her that her R with OM is too hard on you, so you need to distance yourself from the situation. You are not blaming her, you are not blaming OM. You are stating what you need to do to protect yourself.>>>

Yes. Yes. Yes.

This is ABSOLUTELY true.

Plan B is not to "punish" your spouse (though they always think it is.)

Plan B is not to force them to come back to you.

It is to PROTECT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN from your own anger and pain and despair at the WS' actions, and to protect you from the cruelty and disrespect and humiliation of having an affair thrown in your face.

Plan B is to PROTECT YOU. There's no other reason for it. Well, in a sense it protects the WS too, since they are removed as a target for the BS' rage and pain.

And I agree completely with whoever said your W is using your reactions as 100% justification to continue her affair. Not that any of them need much, but she'll take all you want to dish out to her and say "See? You drove me to it! This is YOUR fault! I have no choice!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Her actions are indefensible and she knows it. So stop throwing her ammo when you know she's just going to pick it and use it right back atcha!

Plan B. Plan B. Plan B.

Thanks Sue and psycho....I get the message loud and clear. It's not fair is it? The BS is the one who wants to save the marriage, to go the extra nine yards even though they are the one who got betrayed, and somehow it is their fault if they act human. And of course, no fault or responsibility of the spouse who had the affair.

Thanks.

Hi,

I like the new post.

Life is not fair. Unfortunately, for us. One thing that helps me, is when my H is acting weird I tell myself many things.

1) He is borrowing someone elses brain, so I cannot expect wise decisions at this time. When he brain is returned, then I will have him back

2) He has gone crazy. Crazy people dont' make rational decisions, so you have to wait it out.

I find many bizarre ways to try to rationalize his odd behaviour. It helps me to stay calm.

You may have many more ups and downs. That is what this forum is for. Vent during the down times, and be overjoyed over the good times.

It will take a while for W to see what is going on. Just sit back and wait for it to blow up. In a demented sort of way, sit back and enjoy the show. OM will LB, he has done it many times already and he knows nothing about Plan A, Plan B all that stuff. You also have history.

Here is another story. My sister, her H cheated on her with a coworker when their youngest was 6 months old (what is with 2nd children and their reaching the age of 6 mo). Anyway, back to my sister, he left my sis for OW. After about 6 mo, or so, he wanted my sis back. They started talking about getting back together. Then OW is pg- how convient. Anyway, he stays with her because she is PG and talking about an abortion. I honestly believe that it was all done on purpose and she didn't really intend to have an abortion. Only told him she would so he would stay. This was 13 years ago. He married her. However, many times over the last 13 years, he has said to my sister that he made a mistake and should have never cheated. He had a good thing going with my sis. He blew it. I guess he is not happy with his current W and wants out. However, this was the best thing he could do for my sister. He does drugs and I understand he hits his current W. The point here is that even though he married the OW, he has his regrets. He stayed with her, when he didn't want to.

Be patient. It sounds like she still loves you. Anger will not get her back. Love and patience will.

Thanks Sue! You are so right. I pray that God will comfort me, convict her, and make the OM LB hourly!

I hope the OM does LB. That, and the fact that all of the major holidays are coming up, will hopefully make my wife want her family again and see that she wont get that there. Just a very lonely life.

A funny thing I thought of on the way home from work. I wish my wife could see us married with no children in the midst of this mess, and then look at us with children. How much easier it would be for both of us to just walk away. Even though we are the basis of the family, without kids, it just doesnt have the level of importance as our marriage does with these three wonderful kids.

How does she ever think that her life will be even close to what she wants without her family? She gonna petition for full custody? What if she gets it? The kids will be a mess without Dad...a new step-Dad in the house will not be able to be there for the kids like I would (and our kids wouldnt allow it anyway...oh how I love them). Same would go at my place. What if she doesnt get custody? She willing to be like her OM? He was cheated on and he divorced her. His wife married the OM. They have two daughters who live in Florida, which he sees infrequently. My wife want that, after devoting most of our marriage to those children?

No, my wife will have to wake up soon before she loses what she prizes most. Her family. That is me, her AND the kids. I had to learn this in Bosnia as I woke up from my morass from the past few years. I realized I was about to lose my family. How right I was, I found out a few months later.

There should be better marriage training out there before we get married. Maybe mandated by law. Then I think the divorce rate would go way down. I know if we had had MB training early on, we would have never gotten here.

I pray for the Lord to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get through to my wife. He did it to me and it was hell...I am still suffering. How much will she have to go through before she sees and obeys?

Thanks again Sue!

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Mortarman:

"There should be better marriage training out there before we get married. Maybe mandated by law. Then I think the divorce rate would go way down. I know if we had had MB training early on, we would have never gotten here."

Okay, I'm going 2 be hard on you... ...what would you have them teach? Hopefully NOT what YOU've done (remember, you can't control HER, you can only control YOU).

$h!t, Mortarman, you were on the verge of making some serious progress, but you blew it. You can STILL undo some of the recent damage and not risk losing your love for your W. Stick 2 plan A. No more of this talk of plan B YET, okay? You know what you need 2 do...

Now ol' 2long will cheerfully don his asbestos underwear for the flame-fest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2Long: Thanks. Look, what I meant by training is there is very good information all over the MB site on how to do this all right BEFORE adultery. Many of the core rules for relationships, blunt honesty (sorry...radical), mutual decision making...info on how affairs happen and how to prevent them. Scare us silly on losing our spouses. Teach us to NEVER trust our spouse fully, so we never get too comfortable and take them for granted. Stuff like that.

Point taken on Plan B/A. I am in Plan B only while she cools down. I am not going to approach her, just let things lie for awhile and hope all the good stuff of the last few weeks will bubble up through that nasty LB layer I just put on top. When that happens, then back to the ole Plan A with gusto...and maybe I can get it RIGHT this time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No need for the flame suit my man. My butt has already been cooked over the last week. No one need follow me.

Mortar, you gotta quit beating yourself up, dude! You did NOT (IMHO) screw up with wanting your wife to at least make some kind of commitment to your marriage! Your wife is waffling - she's not quite ready to LET GO of the OM - at least not yet. Perhaps she has to (borrowing an old term from my Dad here) really get down to the BOTTOM of the Garbage Can before she is flat on her back looking up - before she truly realizes she needs YOU in her life. She was getting there - according to the way she was acting last week when she was saying all that stuff about feeling worthless, etc. This might sound crude, but remember: "BS talks and Actions walk" So far, you've just seen a lot of talk (last week) and NO action on removing the OM from her life. Perhaps she needed you for something and decided to 'give in' a little for you so she could get it - playing you again. Why now is she suddenly 'backing off' now that she has seen you're still there for her?
If I was you, I'd hold the course and not back down. I was reading what you said in your letters to her about getting rid of the OM and you were ON TARGET. When your WW is really repentant of her affair she WILL dump the OM and return to you. She's not repentant yet - she is still trying to hang on to... what, I don't know. Hold your course, don't back down and stick to your guns!
Hooooooooooooah! (SGT T-Bird, US Army RET)

Hooah T-Bird. I am staying the course. I have had enough of this. Seven months of being a doormat, being drawn in only to be disappointed. Enough is enough. Even in Basic Training, you got a break from the hell every once in a while (although BT today seems like one big party to me, compared to the "Old Days").

Wife called me at work today. She was feeling kind of sick, over at a "friend's" house and she was going to take a nap after eating something. Wonder what friend that is. Anyway, she had some crap about wanting to drop off some stuff she had for the kids tonight at my son's baseball practice. I said "No Problem." I told her we were headed out after to get Halloween stuff. She asked why I hadnt bothered to ge their costumes before today. She asked if they were upset because they didnt have them yet. I said "Dont worry about it. I have things under control. It has been a busy week and I am on my own. They are fine and they will have everything ready when they need it." Of course, I WANTED to say "What the hell do you care? You are out trapesing around with a bar bouncer, your kids havent seen you since last Saturday, you are destroying their family and their Father, you are living in sin and completelyt abandoning your vows to me and God, and you want to question how we are living? Sorry, you dont get to live like an immoral teenager in heat and then officiate our family from the sidelines." Of course, I didnt say that. probably would fall into some sort of love buster. But, it's too bad I didnt because I do love to speak the truth.

Anyway, the conversation ended with me asking her to bring my wedding ring back (with my new post, you can see my return to my reliance on God...and one of the signals of my disobedience so far was me taking off my ring...I am married to Christ as well as her and He has not told me to divorce yet...thus I am still married).

Anyway, after she got off the phone, I started shaking in hurt, anger, despair, etc again. I began to pray, and that calmed me. But since I went to Plan B this weekend, and my new reliance on God to handle her, I was having a good week. Now that pit is back in my stomach.

Question. I think I should go to a full Plan B until she meets two criteria: 1. OM is gone; and 2. She wants to sit down and plan our recovery. Until then, I want NO contact.

Some will say that I should Plan A her when she calls or comes around, in order to give her positive things to miss when she leaves. I have done that many times over the last 7 months, and it has always left me like last week...deserted, hurt, angry, etc.

Also, I am thinking of taking down all of her pictures here in the house. When we moved in (and she moved to her apartment at the same time), I took pictures out of family albums and plastered on the fridge. Pictures of all of us together. Also put up framed pictures of her and me throughout the house. Now, it is just a sad reminder to me and the kids of the life that my wife and their Mom is destroying. Up to now, I have talked positively about her EVERYDAY, with us all praying for her everynight. But I think I should take down the pictures and stop playing her up with the kids and just concentrate on what's left of our family. We will still pray at night. But, if she wants to be the enemy of her own family, then I guess I should protect the kids from her and OM. The best way to do that is keep her influence out of their lives as much as possible. What do you think?

So, Plan A her when she contacts me...or tell her absolutely no contact until she is FINALLY serious and wants to put down her cake? Help with this one. LBing at this point could be fatal.

In His Arms.

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Hey MM,
Just caught your latest update. I think you're doing fine - plan B is what the doc ordered. your reactions to her words is still very strong, you still feel hurt very much (no wonder!), that's why you need to take a break and look after yourself.
Personally, I'm not v religous. That's something everybody has to decide for himself, isnt it. My view, maybe rather an agnostic one, is: [disclaimer: last weekend I've been in Rome, the eternal city, and saw the holy father - it really brought tears into my eyes]: we live the life here and now, right here, right now. the religous aspect CAN help, but at the end of the day, it's the deeds on the ground which count. I think what I'm trying to say is: don't turn too much into a religous nutter, but rather, get a life. [that's put rather straigh forwardly, so please don't feel offended!]
Good luck! Keep the faith - in yourself, 'cause you're a great guy.

N

Mortarman:

You didn't get yourself a copy of Greg Baer's book "The Truth About Relationships" did you? No, you didn't. Look, I'm not saying that this is a "better way than MB" at all. I am using it 2 customize my plan A, and it's working. But I could very easily have done what you're doing, yet again, and be just as miserable as you are now:

"I am staying the course. I have had enough of this."

These statements are completely contradictory, in my view.

"Seven months of being a doormat, being drawn in only to be disappointed. Enough is enough."

In plan A, you're NOT SUPPOSED 2 BE A DOORMAT. You're NOT. It's that simple. If you feel like one, then you're doing something wrong.

"Wife called me at work today. She was feeling kind of sick, over at a "friend's" house and she was going to take a nap after eating something. Wonder what friend that is."

Who cares??? And do this: STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. They'll only make you crazy, and may villify your W for something she isn't even doing.

"Anyway, she had some crap about wanting to drop off some stuff she had for the kids tonight at my son's baseball practice."

Is it back 2 this? When your W talks 2 you, it's crap? You're going 2 lose this make-believe battle with that atti2de, Mortarman.

"I said "No Problem." I told her we were headed out after to get Halloween stuff. She asked why I hadnt bothered to ge their costumes before today. She asked if they were upset because they didnt have them yet. I said "Dont worry about it. I have things under control. It has been a busy week and I am on my own. They are fine and they will have everything ready when they need it." Of course, I WANTED to say "What the hell do you care? You are out trapesing around with a bar bouncer, your kids havent seen you since last Saturday, you are destroying their family and their Father, you are living in sin and completelyt abandoning your vows to me and God, and you want to question how we are living? Sorry, you dont get to live like an immoral teenager in heat and then officiate our family from the sidelines." Of course, I didnt say that. probably would fall into some sort of love buster."

No $h!t, Sherlock!!! Good for you for not SAYING that. Bad for you for THINKING it. Bad Mortarman, BAD!!

"But, it's too bad I didnt because I do love to speak the truth."

This isn't truth, Mortarman, it's hor$e$h!t. At best, it's YOUR truth. And if it's your truth, you might as well give up on your M, because it's not worth saving. Try finding out what HER truth is for a change. If you'd stop feeling like a doormat (remember, that was YOUR decision, not hers) and stop LBing so visciously (even though you're doing it as a vent HERE, not 2 HER, you're thoughts are clearly clouding your ability 2 do any better than 2 just "not LB" her by not saying how angry you are (another CHOICE YOU MADE - she doesn't MAKE you angry).

"Anyway, the conversation ended with me asking her to bring my wedding ring back (with my new post, you can see my return to my reliance on God...and one of the signals of my disobedience so far was me taking off my ring...I am married to Christ as well as her and He has not told me to divorce yet...thus I am still married)."

Okay, I admire the devotion 2 God and the "message" 2 your W by asking for your ring back (though I don't know how she reacted 2 the request).

"Anyway, after she got off the phone, I started shaking in hurt, anger, despair, etc again."

Why? Heck, Mortarman, I did exactly this when I tried 2 plan B back in July. Had as much of what I'd call a breakdown as anything I've ever experienced. Went back home after a week of trying 2 plan B. Did I become a doormat? No. In fact, I changed plans al2gether, won't EVER do plan B, and don't believe I'll ever have 2. I simply loved my W, "forgot" about OM (not really, but I didn't beat her over the head with him every few days either - in fact, I stopped talking about him and the A al2gether for so long that she had 2 ask ME how *I* was doing! ...which was EXACTLY the right time 2 bring him up again).

"I began to pray, and that calmed me. But since I went to Plan B this weekend, and my new reliance on God to handle her, I was having a good week. Now that pit is back in my stomach."

I don't believe it ever left, you just smoothed it over.

"Question. I think I should go to a full Plan B until she meets two criteria: 1. OM is gone; and 2. She wants to sit down and plan our recovery. Until then, I want NO contact."

This would be in accordance with MB plans, but have you asked SH or Jenn whether it's REALLY the right time for YOU? You might be surprised by the answer.

"Some will say that I should Plan A her when she calls or comes around, in order to give her positive things to miss when she leaves. I have done that many times over the last 7 months, and it has always left me like last week...deserted, hurt, angry, etc."

Well, then you've done it wrong. Plain and simple. I did the same thing (though my W didn't leave). But I had done it wrong for at least 6 months, I now realize.

"So, Plan A her when she contacts me...or tell her absolutely no contact until she is FINALLY serious and wants to put down her cake?"

I'm one of those that would vote for plan A, but you've GOT TO DO IT A WHOLE BUTTLOAD BETTER THAN YOU HAVE!

"Help with this one. LBing at this point could be fatal."

The alternative would be 2 quit now. End the M and get the crying over with. Don't "let" your WW "do this 2 you" and don't subject her 2 your LBs.

"In His Arms."

And I can't believe She ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) would want you 2 quit, Mortarman. ...I'd prefer that God, herself, would take that 2x4 and smack you upside the haid for this latest!!!

But I will shut ol' 2long's trap now and let you get on with whatever it is you think you're doing...

All my best,

<<<Of course, I WANTED to say "What the hell do you care? You are out trapesing around with a bar bouncer, your kids havent seen you since last Saturday, you are destroying their family and their Father, you are living in sin and completelyt abandoning your vows to me and God, and you want to question how we are living? Sorry, you dont get to live like an immoral teenager in heat and then officiate our family from the sidelines.">>>

MM, there isn't a betrayed spouse here who hasn't felt exactly the same way. These are your feelings and you are entitled to them. Trying to stuff them down and make them go away, or trying to force yourself to somehow NOT feel this way, would be complete disaster. You'd be e-mailing us all from the loony bin, or a jail cell, instead of your house.

The important thing is that you said exactly the right thing to your W. There would be no point in giving her your real feelings right now because she is far too focused on herself to care about what she's doing to you. No sense wasting your time on a fight that will have no winners.

Anyway -- the Harley's guidelines say that a BS should go to Plan B when the pain is getting to be too much to bear, when you're not going to be able to avoid telling the WS how you really feel much longer, and when you can feel your love and respect for them draining away.

It sure seems to me that that's exactly where you are now. Plan B will protect you from the pain and humiliation she's heaping on you, and it will protect *her* from your completely understandable anger and frustration at the way she's chosen to live her life and deal with her problems. Most of all, it will protect your children from the pain both of you are suffering right now.

Most of the BS here will tell you that the only thing that ever got their WS' attention was Plan B. Their only regret was that they waited too long to do it -- waited until they were so angry, and had taken it out so many times on their WS, and their WS had gotten so comfortable sitting up on that fence, that there was virtually no hope left.

Don't take my word for it. Read the Harley's own guidelines on this site. Good luck.

Hi Mortar,

I don't know if you should Plan A or Plan B or a combination. So I won't say anything about that.

It is better that you vent her, than keep it bottled up inside and then vent to W. That would be very bad.

Try to focus on the positives. Have a good Halloween with your kids. My kids are looking forward to it, I'm not. Temp is supposed to be down in the 20's. That means winter coats over costumes, unless I can fit the costume over winter coat. Cinderella will look pretty chubby with her gown over a winter coat. And can you imagine Anakin Skywalker in a orange and black parka. (Wanted to give you something to smile about).

Take care

MM,

The drill as I understand it is to do a good plan A for as long as you can and then switch to a plan B. How long is "for as long as you can?" It is to the point that you are having a hard time not LB'ing and undoing what you have done. It is BEFORE you lose all love for her.

Plan B is to preserve YOUR love, but sometimes it has the added bonus of letting the WS see what life without you will be like.

I think in your case you will have to have some contact with W because you have children. IN those situations plan A her, otherwise martial your resources and heal abit. Your W is in user mode right now and her taker is running full steam. My feeling is that you would be better away from her than talking to her, YOU ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH YET!

Example? Last weekend. You need to get your stuff together first. So just back off. Eventually, you may need to go into a formal plan B where a letter is written and your boundaries are explained: OM is out, she is willing to try to rebuild, etc. But, right now take a break from her.

FRankly I think some sessions with Steve Harley might help solidify your plan. You do need a plan. 2L has spoken of his plan, and he is executing it with positive affects. You need a plan for you.

So hang in there, knock off the LB's, focus on your children, and have fun trick or treating. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Hi MortarM! Yah I sure remember the old days too - the Army will never be the same. O well, things change, as my wife told me once. She's so right.
I'm really sorry your wife is putting you thru all this - and I know it's especially hard when you are 'on notice' for field exercises and deployments anytime - I sure know how those times were!
We're praying for you, and I feel God will help in His own Way, somehow, just keep trusting in Him, sure I know it's difficult, but you gotta hang in there, man. I'd definitely go to Plan B ASAP - you're killing yourself with your emotions - and you gotta get a hold of them. For your sake as well as trying to save your marriage! Please, stand strong - we're behind you. "Read & Heed" the other Postings - they're right on it.
God bless you, Mortar, as you continue to serve - with the Best!
SGT T-Bird (US Army, RET)

First, a few responses to the latest posters here:

Nick: Thanks for the encouragement. I'm no catholic, but I can understand what you were saying about Rome.

2Long: Okay man. dont worry about it. I love when people speak their minds. I just ordered Baer's book. Many of the points you brought up, I have considered. But I think right now I am going to stay in a firm Plan B (see my update below) because of things going on and how I feel right now around her. But, as soon as I am strong enough around her, I hope to go back to Plan A where I can.

psycho: You are so right. My wife hadnt peaked her head out of the fog UNTIL I went to a full blown Plan B at the end of Sept. Three weeks of that, and I am getting calls with her crying and her ACTUALLY seeing some reality. No fog talk. No accusations. But some personal responsibility of her own. I have owned up to mine. this was the first time she had owned up to hers. I immediately went to Plan A and we had a great couple of weeks. But, I think after 6 months of trying to Plan A her, I am very weakened around her. Any suggestion of leaving or the fact that OM is even alive, and I LB. So, even though things were going well, nothing had really changed, no concrete steps taken. I cannot put myself in that position again (see below for the update). Thanks again!

Sue: halloween was great, except right at the end (see below). Yeah, this is definitely the place to blow off steam.

JL: You are right on the money. Except I have a few outlying issues that has moved me firmly into Plan B, with paperwork filed. (see below). You are right...I am too weak now. Since I decided to back off completely, go to Plan B, and concentrate on what God wants, I have not been anxious, depressed or been flailing around. I have actually eaten three squares and slept through the night every day this week (the first time since I got home). So, I think for now, the doctor is ordering me to rest from this battle, to move back from the front and take a little R&R. Battle fatigue has taken over. Just need some sleep, some food, and some time to get some personal things taken care of. Then maybe, just maybe, I might have the strength to go back to the "war." right now, I am taking my pass from the commander and going to go enjoy myself if I can.

T-Bird: Thanks for the morale boost. Yeah, it aint the same Army I got into, but still the best in the world! you're right...God's making the Battle Plans now...I'm going back to my foxhole and just concentrate on my left and right limits. No since trying to do the General's job. Thanks again.

Now the update.....

My wife is mad...real mad. Went off on me in front of the kids two days ago. Said I am keeping them from her (a lie...everytime she has asked to see them, I have made them available and even brought them by when she hasnt asked...there is no formal visitation schedule or anything like that). Then she said I was brain washing them against her. I pointed out that our oldest, who is 10, was brought up by both of us. he was taught what God wanted out of families and marriages. He knows the truth. She and I brought him up well. His problem with his mother is directly related to his upbringing and her immoral and selfish behavior (pointing this out was a MAJOR LB...but I was not going to take the wrap for my kids pulling back from her when it is her doing it). I pointed out that I plastered her picture all over the house. That we pray for her every night. that I try to include her in conversations with the kids everyday, so they are reminded of her in their daily lives (she only averages seeing them for a couple of hours once a week). I make sure when she is available that she sees them. Now, does that sound like brainwashing? I dont talk bad about her. When the kids ask why Mom is not obeying God, the most I have said is that she is confused right now and trying to work things out with Him. But I dont call her names. They know that my wife's behavior is selfish and immoral and is destroying their family and their father. I do not even have to say a word. Again, this is all due to their upbringing. I mean, we have told them not to steal. If all of a sudden, their mother became a bank robber, then they would be confused. What do I say to them? They know their mother is wrong. She cannot justify bank robbery. Just like she cant justify adultery, separation or divorce. They are wrong and these children, unfettered by the prevailing winds of this corrupt society, know better. "Sometimes things don't work out." "mom and Dad just argue a lot and cant get along." Why? If you and Mom told us that we have to get along, then why don't you? If you guys told us to never quit, then why do you? If you said that marriage is for a lifetime, that you belong to each other, then why are you such hypocrites? AAHhhhhh. From the mouths of babes……..

Anyway, she is on a roll on this kid thing. Again, the fog seems to be warping her mind again. Keeping the kids from her…brainwashing them? Not a shred of truth to this, but then again, if my wife had been living in reality over the last year, instead of the fog, then she wouldn't have had an affair, wouldn't have been trying to end our family and would have at least stepped up right now to try to make amends and move forward with our lives together. But reality and fog do not mix. Perception is reality for her. She can say the sky is purple all day. She may even believe it. But that does not make it true. Of course, the kids and I have to live in STARK REALITY that has been created here.

Okay, I vented! Anyway, she talked to our mutual friend after she yelled at me. Said all of these things. And then said a few funny things that do not make since. Stuff like "Maybe I should just move home until graduation in June and then make my decisions (of course I would NEVER allow this)." Or "He (me) is pushing me towards the OM. Why is he doing that?" Or "I came over here to talk to you (mutual friend) because I didn't want to discuss this with OM." Or "There are things I still love about Mortarman, but he makes me so angry when he does stuff like this." And some more talk that showed that reality hasn't completely left her. Interesting. Crazy? Yep. But not enough to hold onto. Not enough to go back on her saying all this week, and even that night with mutual friend, that it is over. Do I believe it is over? No. God still isnt done. He hasn't told me to move on yet. But, I have a few things I have to do here now.

First, I refiled the divorce and custody paperwork. Her vacillating is scaring me, and I want to make sure the kids are protected by having our current arrangement drawn up legally. The custody paperwork is bound up in the divorce paperwork. Really, all I want is the custody issue settled right now. But my lawyer advised starting the whole thing, get the custody deal taken care of, then come back and decide where to proceed or if to pull back. So, that is what I am doing. Of course, that will be a MAJOR LB to her. But, I cannot worry about upsetting her anymore. It is now about my family (minus her since she doesnt want in). It is about protecting those kids. It is about protecting my love for my wife. And it is about her and God having a toe-to-toe match with me out of the way. So, if she gets mad over the paperwork then so be it. She will have to understand that it will all go away if she gets her head back on straight. And if not, then its time to move on anyway.

No, the paperwork is also about me trusting God. It is saying that I am going to put this forward, to protect my kids, and trust that her and God will work through her mess and bring her home so we can work together to fix ours. Of course, I havent changed my mind about my wife or my life. I want my family back. I want what I had for 8 years, with it improved by getting rid of the underlying problems that set us up for this. I KNOW we can have that. But it is going to take the Holy Spirit, I guess, to convince her. And a lot of times, He has to do it through some painful experiences in our life because it is the only way we listen.

So, Plan B and paperwork on the way. She said last night, when she was at our mutual friends house (I dropped by to let her see the kids in their costumes) that she wanted to make sure we could still work together on the kids. I said "well, no. We can make decisions together. You can email me or leave a message on my voicemail or with a friend or relative and I will get back to you the same way. We can make decisions that way. But if you think we can be in the same room together, or go out together as a family, or anything else like that as long as you are living the way you are and not rid of OM and not committed to this marriage and this family, then the answer will always and forever be NO, I cannot talk to you, be around you or help you. This is not to punish you, but to protect me, the kids, and even you from the hurt I feel and from me losing the love I have for you."

Her face dropped. She said I had to work with her with the kids. I said that we could work together on the kids, but not directly with each other. She said that was unacceptable. I told her that everything for the last year (this was probably an LB) was about her and her selfish wants. That I am not here to do everything her way, especially if you are not being my wife and actually trying to destroy me and our family. That I am not comfortable around her and cannot keep from Lbing as long as the OM is around and she is not committed to the marriage again. Again, she got angry and said she would do something about that (I assume she will talk to her lawyer?). Oh well. How does that change anything? She says she wants out. She has made no concrete moves to try to save herself, the kids, and even me from this mess. She has even said she wants the divorce, that it is over with. I cant worry about that, whether it is true or not. It is in His hands.

Okay, again, the plan is Plan B…completely. She will get the paperwork in the next few days and we will probably start custody stuff in three weeks. I am relying totally on God to make her see that this isnt about divorce and that I still have not changed my mind. It is about protecting myself, my love and my children from her decisions and her destructive actions toward us.

Anyone want to weigh in? Like I said, some interesting little tidbits when she was talking to the mutual friend. Beginning to see she might not be back with OM fully (just "friendship" while she tells him she wants to figure things out…might be wrong). I think she is wanting this to just sit to see what happens and keep her from having to make any decisions (she has no time to deal with this, and the status quo right now is working for her). So, maybe there is hope, but I think either through a painful experience brought on by God, or her waiting until graduation, it wont be resolved for awhile. That doesn't mean that me and the kids have to live like she wants us to. That there now has to be some boundaries. That it is time she live, for the first time in 10 years, completely without Mortarman at her side. No contact, no sex (that will be bad because it is very important to her and OM is lacking in this department), no late night support phone calls when she needs a lift…nothing. Just her and the world she has created. If she likes it, then there was nothing that could be done anyway. But I hope the lord will show her the error of her ways, that that life will lead to unhappiness. And she will miss out on her blessings.

Okay, let me hear it guys and gals.

In His Arms.

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

I have more to say but I am in a bit of a rush. I will comment more later...first keep in mind God will not make her see...God will continue to offer the picture...lay out the cards in front of her but she still has the choice of opening her eyes or not. Remember Jesus and Lazurus...Lazurus is in his tomb for days, buried, decaying, dead. And in front of hundreds of witnesses, His disciples, Christ calls him back to life. By the end of the week Christ disciples were betraying, Him, denying Him, and basically leaving Him for dead. These same witnesses called for Christ's death and the freedom of Barabas. My point? God goes to THE GREATEST lengths to demonstrate his love for us but in the end it is solely our choice to accept that. God is with her as He has always been with you. God will never abandon any of you but He will never force her to see what she refuses to accept. I continue to pray for her to accept as you have just keep in focus as to what God has demonstrated time and again...His greatest gift to us is being His highest creation...our greatest sin is not realizing what we have had all along.

Will write more later

continuing prayers aylsyne

Thanks to all for the recent posts and encouragement.

I am still trying to hold onto the plan. But it is hard. Constant questioning if I am doing the right thing. I know the divorce/custody paperwork is going to show up next week (read my previous post). I am not sure how she will take it (although I know she will be upset). I have wanted to call, or write to her, several times today in order to tello her that this does not mean I want a divorce, it is just allowing me to legally put in place our current situation and that if she decides that she can meet the criteria of OM gone and her committed to working on the marriage, then all of this can go away. But, I am in Plan B and I need to stay there. I just hope that she gets the right message out of this. Again, this is a trust issue with me and God. So, I will let the Holy Spirit work with her on her understanding.

Who knows? After I screwed things up 2 weeks ago and the OM said some "wonderful" things to her about being there for her, maybe this will push her over the edge and make the decision for her. She doesnt like making hard decisions, so to have them made for her works for her, even if they are not what she would have really chosen. But, we cant remain in perpetuity either. I have nothing left.

So, would love you all to weigh in on what you think her reaction might be to the paperwork. Of course, you'll have to take it either way: she is wanting to leave now and would welcome this OR she really wants to stay and now this.

Let me know. I am trying to prepare myself for what might happen, to maybe be ready for certain contingencies. Ultimately, it doesnt matter to what I am doing. I am following Christ and fully in Plan B. No contact...period.

Let me know what you think. Going through this here helps me not do stupid stuff out there.

In His Arms.