Well, I'm so sorry I haven't been real active. I've been lurking and living life good. Things have been pretty great at home. However, I've run into those darn obstacles and I so desperately need your help.

Ok, long story short - DH ended up with 2 cel phones from work for a short time. He just got the 2nd yesterday. So, this AM he has me take one with me. I haven't carried a cel phone in over a year, and I have no clue what the ring on this phone sounds like. In any event, DH calls me on the phone, I figure it was while I was still on the bus going off of when he said he called and when I actually got to work. Well, needless to say I didn't answer cause I didn't hear it. I talked to DH after I got to work cause I was missing him and he mentioned he called. Once I realized he was talking about the cel phone I explained I never heard it, and why I probably didn't hear it. I asked if he called for a reason or just to say hi. He said he called to see if I'd answer.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> After so much good happening why am I being tested like this. It hurts so much. Why does everything have to seem like it's under a close watch. I haven't done anything to make him think I'm fooling around again, but he felt the need to test me like this. Then, in a morbid sort of tone, tells me not to worry about it. How the heck am I supposed to not worry about it?

Oh please help me here. I realize I may not deserve your kindness since I haven't been actively around for awhile, but I just needed a break, with things going so well at home and all. I hope you can understand and still welcome me with the kindness you always have. Thank you in advance. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

TUTTER!!! Dangit....just settle down. This is NOT a major thing. DO NOT MAKE IT ONE! Remember, your reactivity to everything effects HIS reactivity. If you get nervous and jumpy and over reactive every time there's a question or a doubt...he'll start to wonder why!

I've had similar things happen to me Princess. It is hard to deal with, because you feel you have no right to complain. You are "stuck" with this treatment because you "earned" it. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten in trouble due to situations like the one you described above. I always feel set back in our recovery by it.

Oh Hope, so good to hear from you. I just want to cry! Things were so great for us. We were doing so good, and he has to test me like that. I didn't get all jumpy. When he mentioned calling I thought he was talking about my work phone. I pulled out the cel and saw the missed call and apologized and explained that it was in my coat pocket, that I was most likely on the bus, and never heard it (partially due to the bus, the fact that I'm not used to having one, and the fact that I don't know what it sounds like).

I just feel stomped on. I so cannot put into words how I feel right now. I hate how he is feeling, and I know I didn't do anything wrong. Why the test? Why now? I didn't deserve it. On top of it I hardly have any friends of my own, so I never go out by myself, for anything really (except to run quick to the store or something). He has this Marine Corp. League thing, that he's had something to do for last night, this past Sat., last Tues. and the Wed. before. I feel like I'm in a prison sometimes, and now I have this electronic leash for him to check-up on me. Damn it - I think about him all the time. I get up, get ready for work, catch my bus, read on the bus, get to my building, get the mail, and start my morning routine at work.

Urgh! Thanks for letting me vent. I sure could use a hug, and I just want to cry. I am so depressed right now. Thanks for being here for me, it means so much!

Finding, thanks for the reply. You really got it right with the "earned" it. So true, so true. But when do we deserve to not have to live like that? It has to get somewhat normal sooner or later. I appreciate your response, thanks.

Well, tutter, at some point...and it may be a little too soon to be that point...you may have to confront that fact. Hubby needs to learn to openly communicate and not treat you like a child who is grounded. Your husband may have moments where he feels insecure....but I think we established that that was the case BEFORE this happend. This just reinforced it and now when he feels insecure he probably feels angry and then takes it out on you.

And...I assume...you STILL aren't seeing a counselor? I know you want to just ride along and enjoy the goodness while it's there...but think about it...it's easier to work on things when everything IS good. If things start taking a turn again...it'll be all the harder to get it back where it needs to be. Prevenative maintenance...that's my opinion.

Anyway, I will say that my hubby probably does things or says things every now and then that would be somewhat of a "test" or maybe just a hair of not trusting...but it doesn't bother me because I don't take it personally. If he's feeling insecure and wants to check up...no problem. I get worried that he's shikabobed himself in the windrower when he's out farming late and get antsy....so I guess it's pretty normal.

And here's your hug Tutter (((((TUTTER))))). I know it hurt, but like I told BB...don't measure your worth from what someone else thinks or does. Your doing your part...and that's all you can do. If things are bad for him, he needs to do something about it.

It wouldn't be quite so bad to be tested now and then if he didn't get such suspicious tone about him. It was like, yeah right and I'm supposed to believe that. I don't even want the damn phone. URGH!!!

I'm so lost today. I want to talk to him about it, but I know now is not the right time. Plus, I know that if I pursue conversation about it then it will make it worse. I wish I was an ostrich and could burry my head in the ground.

Anyhow, thank you so much for taking the time for me. I truly appreciate it, and thanks for the hug.

Tutter, these tests (and I don't mean from hubby) are what make you all the stronger. You already see that pursuing a conversation right now wouldn't be to anyones benefit. That's progress!! Let yourself calm down and get in to a better state of mind...heck, turn it around and pamper him with a good meal (or some good take out) when he gets home tonight. When you're both in a good mood...then tell him his tone hurt you.

And when this incident is over...don't forget to pat yourself on the back for choosing to react rationally instead of emotionally!!! I think it makes all the difference in the world! FEELINGS YOU DON'T CONTROL ME!!! Ahhh...now that makes me feel powerful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And on that note...I gotta go kick some butt at work. I hope your day starts looking up!! If you start feeling really bad...chocolate. It always works for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Hope. I still want to cry right now, but it helps so much venting here and having people like you to talk with me through it.

I sent DH an e-mail asking him what he was thinking and feeling. I told him if he didn't want to talk now it was fine, but that I had to ask. I told him I feel awful and that I love and miss him. Hoping that wasn't a bad move.

Thanks again for your time.

Hi Tutter...

Listen, as the BS, I suspect that I will be checking up on my FWW from time to time for years to come. It's not so much about you, it is more likely a trigger event for him and he needs reassuring right then. I have a list of triggers now, for instance, the make of car they 'did it' in. Every time I see that kind of car I get extremely upset and think about them doing whatever disgusting thing they did. I am probably going have to rent that kind of car and 'take her back' in it to get over it.

If he checks up on you, please try to remember that that means he still cares.

You guys are doing great. Please try not to freak out over little things, just accept that he won't be back to 'normal' for a long time.

My FWW just woke up on Tuesday, and I am walking around waiting for the fog to roll back in and her become WW again. I am quite hopeful that she won't, but she did it once... I can't believe it is for real. She betrayed me in the worst way, you know. I will never fully trust her again, but according to the Harleys, that is actually the best thing.

Hang in there girl, you are doing great!!

ST -> NSST -> BTST -> OT

Thank you Tiger, I appreciate your time and thoughts. It's just really hard today. I hate making him feel that way, especially when I don't have any clue I'm doing something to make him feel that way (make sense?).

Anyhow, my best advice to you right now, is just believe a little in her and your marriage. It will help you through some of those hard times. Trust will take time, but believing helps both the BS and the WS. My best to you. Thanks for taking the time to respond here.

Thoughts??? Here are the e-mails going back and forth. What do you think?

Me responding to DH:

"DH honey, you are not weak at all. I feel safe in your arms. Why do you feel like we are going through the motions? Is there something I can do to help? I'm sorry it felt like old times. It wasn't that at all. You are doing a great job of making things work. I think things have been great between us. I understand having your down moments, but don't feel you have to deal with it all on your own. I love you Jay and I am here to hold you through those moments. Why do you feel like you are not giveing me romance and passion? I don't feel that way. You are very romantic and I feel great passion between us. Romance doesn't have to be candles and wine, it can be moments like yesterday when you walked up behind me and touched me lovingly.

When you say you can't do this anymore, what are you referring to? I'm sorry I haven't seen the depths to which the money is affecting you. What do you say we sit down tonight and map out a complete budget. What we bring in, when, and what bills we have and when they come and approx. due. It should help us out with that. And from now on, let's do the bills and money stuff together. This way it's not on just one of our shoulders. I know how stressful it is, I was there remember. I'm sorry it's getting that way for you. You have done such a wonderful job with the bills and money, and I appreciate you taking that burden from me when I was going through so much stress. However, I never meant for it to be like this for you and it is time for us to really share the job. I'd be happy to help you with all of it.

DH, I don't think happiness is completely behind us. Sure, sometimes it feels like it, but more often, and I'd like to believe you feel this way to, the happiness is there. Are you that unhappy being married to me? Are you trying to tell me something? The things you mentioned that you are doing, healing, mending feelings, and the money, we can do all those together. Here is my hand sweetheart, don't be afraid to accept my help. I love you! I am here for you."

DH responding to me:

"WW,
It was just that I tried to call and say I love you this morning. When I wasn't able to reach you it felt like old times. What more can I do to make things work. I just feel like **** all time. I do not feel like I am giving you romanance, or passion.
Sometimes I feel that we are just going through the motions rather than being in love with eachother. I am so stressed in making money work in all places. We bring in so much money that can cover more than what our needs have to make, but we still are striving to stay afloat.

I have not had one good nights sleep in two weeks, because of the money situation. I just can't do this anymore WW. I am so depressed and upset that I am basically just falling in two. I feel so alone and discouraged that happiness is so far behind me. Yes there is we will try harder next time. But week after week it's the same story, striving to survive. I am sorry your husband is so weak and not strong like other men. But trying to heal, mend feelings, and stress over money is not what I planned in life."

My original message to DH:

"DH, could you let me know what you are thinking and feeling right now? I don't want to elevate this, and if you don't want to talk now that's fine, but I had to ask. I feel awful. It just seems like lately all I do is make you feel like I am falling into old habits. It's not so. Anyhow, I just had to ask if you'd talk. If not, maybe later. I do love you and miss you very much."

I hear ya Princess, you know he is watching you, but sometimes it's the way it's done. My H has FLOWN off the handle a few times because he can't reach me at work or on my cell phone. I was at work the whole time, just detained. I tell him, come to my work then! See for yourself that I am there. He says there's no way in hell he'll do that. So instead he sits at home dialing my numbers over and over again and leaving me hateful messages. I come back to my desk, oblivious, and get 15 messages to go thru. All with him sounding madder and madder.

Sometimes I just don't know what to do, I can't even describe the feeling...

My H was also very insecure and jealous before all this happened, it has just made it worse.

I feel for you princess... I really do.

All of us have bad days, BS, or WS, or even if we have not had an A in our marriage.

I suspect there is not one here that has not had these feelings that he is expressing. I get in these moods and just say " things will be better in the morinig." And they always are, they always are. Why was I in such a black mood? Why couldn't I recognize it and get out? Why do I make it carry over on everyone around me?

I don't know the answers but I have come to accept it as part of life and just try to cope until I feel better. I bet he feels better tomorrow, and you can love him tonight and help. Please don't take it as a sign that things are really coming apart, stall for time, don't encourage him to talk, it just makes it worse (for me anyway.) See if it isn't much better tomorrow. I bet it will be, I think I have lived this one myself so many times that I would wonder what was happening if it passed me by for a week or two.

SS

Oh, Tutter, just a quick comment...

No offense intended, but all those lengthy 'feelings' e-mails would drive me CRAZY!! I would want you to (sorry!) shut up and let me process my feelings. When I feel bad, I will let her (you) know if I want to talk about it. Men don't usually like such interrogation. Perhaps your H is different, and only you know that, but I would get very annoyed at your e-mails.

still seeking speaks for me:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't take it as a sign that things are really coming apart, stall for time, don't encourage him to talk, it just makes it worse </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't encourage him to talk. He will talk when he is ready. Pestering him about it only makes it worse. (My mother is like you; she wants to write and write about feelings. I get to where I won't read it all. It just takes too much energy! I love her, but she runs me crazy sometimes!)

You are doing GREAT!!!! Be happy!!!!

TIGER!!!!

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Optimistic Tiger ]</small>

I thank you all for your responses and support. I truly appreciate it. However, I think something was read a little wrong.

I did not pressure him to talk. I encouraged him to talk if he was ready but expressed it was ok if he wasn't. He started with the first *feelings* e-mail, I simply responded as comforting and caring as I could.

And actually, sometimes it's easier for us to communicate by e-mail because we are at work, and/or because it's easier to openly express without being taken wrong by tones, inadvertent body gestures, ect. and without being interrupted.

Again, thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I encouraged him to talk if he was ready but expressed it was ok if he wasn't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did understand that from your e-mails.

The point is to not even encourage him to talk. Just be there - be happy - do what it takes. The 'talk if you want, but ok if not' stuff *itself* would annoy me!

I meant to address that I understood you were telling him that it was ok not to, but that reads to me, 'please please please please talk to me about this,' and he then feels obliged to share his feelings, even if he doesn't want to, which becomes painful to him. When he wants to, he will. Just love him silently!!

Ask him his feelings if you must, but try to cut back, ok? (I do the same thing with FWW, I know exactly what you are feeling.... I just know how I would react to such questions.)

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox Tutter xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

You are doing wonderful!!! Don't Worry!!!!

TIGER

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Optimistic Tiger ]</small>

Well, I want to thank all of you for your support yesterday. I truly appreciate it.

The evening went well. DH was in a bit of a better mood. It appears that money is the root of his issues. Money/financial stability is a huge EN for him, and it's been a bit rough lately. So we sat down last night and figured some things out. We did it together and was able to relax and enjoy the remainder of the evening cuddling. We talked a little about things, but most had been resolved. He did make a comment about "welcome to my lonely road". I told him it doesn't have to be lonely that we can do it together. I think things worked out well.

Hope you are right, I needed so desparately to stay calm and not escalate it. It just all took me by surprise and off guard totally. I was shaken and not ready for the incident. Thank you.

I do have to touch on something Tiger said, please don't take offense to this. You mentioned that I need to "love him silently". I'm sorry, but I disagree with that. I sympathize with him and do a rather good job of understanding and giving value to what he thinks and feels, but just because I made this bed does not mean I do not have feelings and thoughts just as real as his. I have just as much right to address my feelings as he does and not have to walk on egg shells for the rest of my life. I know you didn't mean anything by that, but it was a bit unsettling yesterday. Yes, he has every right to feel how he does and have his triggers etc. I was not being pushy, he knows when I'm being pushy and giving the *please, please, please talk to me*. I was simply letting him know that I was there for him. Try to keep that in mind for your own benefit. A simple "if you want to talk, etc." is just a gentle way of saying - here is my hand, I'm offering you help when you are ready for it. Now, when it is followed up 2 seconds later with the same thing or something similar, then yes, it's a "please please please talk to me".

Sometimes it's hard to set back and let the BS *own* these feelings. The reality here is that a WS in recovery realizes that we have force fed you these thoughts and feelings and there is nothing we can do to just take them away and make your heart better. It's kind of hard to accept. We had all the power to drown you in this horror, but no power in pulling you out. We just have to wait and let you take it at your own pace. Don't take the *pushing* as a bad thing, but know that she cares to try to help you through it. Sure, it can drive you crazy, and you should address that with her and I'm sure she'll work at not doing it, but try to understand why she does. Not to be in control, more to help you through the rough times.

In any event, I truly appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me. That is one of the great things about this place, BS and WS can learn from eachother.

Again, thank you all for being there for me. You are all so wonderful and so kind.