AGH, I guess this could be good.. coming out of fog a bit. He wants time together , doing stuff together with kids and me- but no talk of coming home... this is crazy.. WHY is he doing this????

Financially and as a single mom this is driving me nuts?!

Ok, advise anyone?

I want to be with him and rebuild, he even sd a few days ago he will go to cousenling. he gets mad when I R talk.

Honey

go for it, act like you are dating again. Create a safe environment for him, one that makes him feel special and loved, one that makes him feel better as a sober person so he does not feel he needs to drink to drown his sorrows. Let him know you can be a family again by actions, not words.

Hi Honey,

you just got the best advice! And G_C knows what she is talking about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hugs
bb

Honey-

I'll differ a little from g-c's advice but I felt compelled to respond. I don't want to see another spouse bouncing in and out of Plan B, etc. and permitting their spouse to disrespect them or their boundaries.

What about your boundaries? You don't sound overly enthusiastic about being with your H right now. How is your H going to protect you? Tell him after he schedules and sees a counselor for his problems, then you'll consider being together with him, a little at a time. Not back in the house though until you feel safe. Make him accountable for his time and finances. Ask your H about his counseling and learn something about the qualifications of his counselor. Maybe just a date without the kids every now and then. Slowly build up to where you can enthusiastically spend 10-15 hrs a week alone with him. But you must let him know the conditions that are necessary for you to feel safe. Have you thought about those?

If you can, try following Cerri's story over on JFO. She is not following Plan B but rather kicked her husband out and then set conditions for dating and slowing integrating her H back into the home and family. She calls it separated and dating. She said that Dr. H thought it was also a good plan for their marriage. It is important for you to conveny your needs to your H and find out how he is going to address those concerns.

Also, don't be afraid to give Dr. Harley a call when he is on the radio on Monday or Thursday at 1 pm CST. Call early, let the phone ring until someone answers it. In 10-15 minutes, he can be a great assistance and it is free!

Good luck. I know this is tough stuff you are dealing with.

HoFS

Well we are going to a very late lunch in a few minutes, abuot 20. I am excited, and I am giong to have lots of nice actions, no R talk. just a funtime to spend together. It is hard, because I want him home and with us, working together on the same plan of life.

Well thanks for the advice, but I must say , my h will not respond at all to me setting verbal boundaries to him. Not telling him how it is going to be.. he is still of the camp, he was treated wrong and that is why he did this... and quite stubborn... at that- he has to be plan a, loved back, not boundaried back. boundaries are fine yes, but putting thm up earlier in this charade drove him to ow num. 2, well partly- it certainly was not my fault.

he has told me he wants acceptance and love.. and I was not givinghim that. I was; quite a demanding wife, i admit, I even ordered him around a bit. i cant do that now, that is what he ran from. I have to be the loving girl he fell in love with, not some bossy wife.

Not saying that is what you mean, but just a little into on who he is.

thanks for caring enough to post all of you.

I am giong to make this a pleasnat and fun late lunch... and I do look kind of nice today too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Dressed up ... just for work, but he will like my look.

Hugs, and thank yous- honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Honey-

Sorry if I misunderstood. Your signature line indicated you are setting up boundaries. You've recognized and admited your shortcomings and what you need to work on. He also needs to recognize his faults. Perhaps he also needs to set boundaries in your marriage that were not there before. Rather than dealing with the problems, he found other means like OW and drink.

Good luck with your plan but do think about how you are going to convey to your H what you need to feel protected and cared for. Also let him know what you are willing to do for him but that you can't tolerate the OW and other garbage. Stating those things is not controlling or disrepsectful. It is how you feel and what you need. Be true to yourself. If he doesn't trust you, then that is another issue to deal with. Figure out how you are going to create a safe place for him also. Ask him what he needs but at the same time, don't be afraid to tell him what you and the kids need. Hope you had a good lunch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HoFS

Honey, there's a difference between demands and boundaries.

You've stopped demanding that he change, that's significant progress on your part.

BUT taking him back without his changing is something totally different.

If he came to you today and said he wanted to move home, and that he would financially support you, but that he would drink whenever and however he liked, and party, sleep around and date whomever he wanted....would you take him back?

See thats where boundaries come in. You need to decide where that line is for you. He can be and do whatever he wants and you shouldn't demand that he do differently. You have that part down right. Where you are dropping the ball is accepting that this is who he is, and determining for yourself, what HONEY needs and deciding if he fits the bill or not.

So the question is....AS HE IS TODAY...lies, drinking, OW, all of it, would you take him back?

hope you have a good lunch, Honey, I think its all in our actions. You can definitely show love without allowing him to walk all over you.

<strong>WHY is he doing this????</strong>

because he knows you'll let him.
HofFenceSitter and Bramble Rose know what they're saying. boundaries are important in every marriage not just one's that have broken vows. you can only be a door mat if you let someone walk on you, ya know?

He is not seeing any ow at this time and has been clear to me that he is not. He is working to get me money , but having trouble doing so. Today I suggestede he wait tables, deliver pizzas, do whatever it takes to support his kids.

He sd this week he believes he should support me and the kids- now that is the old h, not the last yrs ws.

He says he wants to go to counseling. Does not want to lose me for a maid, etc. it is so ridiculous, referred to the first a as having made a bad mistakea nd not knowing what he was doing or why he did it.

He just still tries to say he didnt just have the A, that there werwe reasons he wanted aawy from me, and that that was what lead to the A, the a is a symptom of marriage problems, not the cause of them he says. Well I say, sure we had issues, but none like we have now.

His eyes filled with tears when he heard at lunch how sad older son is and how hurt he is over this, but ws, was scared that a neighboring table would hear our discussion and sd he wanted the topic to change... I could not just have a good time. I mentioned tellign the maid to never call again if she does... she called a few days ago from mexico wanting him to come visit her. he claims she was saying she loved him and he sd he did not love her and ... etc. he sd he told her not to call and that he could not talk to her for a year? who knows, does he want her on the backburner if we divorce???/ he is still foggy. I tried to insist he tell her that he cannot talk to her ever again if she calls.. ow one is out of the pic entirely, no more calls or anytihg/... well he says ow 2 is out of the pic entirely, he is concerned about his 6 mth lease he jsut signed and does not want to break it. What else?

he says the maid will not be calling him again and this is somthing he does not want to tell the grandkids? He acts like he loves me, and wanted a kiss wehn he dropped me back at work...

He acts hesitant like I caused this whole mess. But I know he has quilt. He mentioned he was afraid I would not even let him have a cell phone... because I mentioned I did not like his cell phone.

See, our lunch was not all that pleasant... other than that we discussed doing something together for halloween, he sd he wanted to have a nice christmas, and also some other illusions to us being together. who even knows? fog.

I am confused, but I did ahve boundaries I believe. I am hurt that he has done all this mess.

It is hard to just let go. He is agreeable to counseling, but we cant afford it right now. We have no insurance.

I just dont even know anymore. We are suppossed to meet again for lunch tomorrow, part of it is he is going to help me pay a bill.

ANyway, gotta go have dinner with my dad, his bday.

Thanks for being here and for all the good advice, everyone, sorry I cannot list all your names right now. thanks, honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>He just still tries to say he didnt just have the A, that there werwe reasons he wanted aawy from me, and that that was what lead to the A, the a is a symptom of marriage problems, not the cause of them he says</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey,
Reread that statement again, I think this is one of the first intelligent things I have heard him say. Nothing against you, but affairs do occur due to a breakdown of the marriage, on both sides. He acknowledges that it is a symptom of problems, when before he just said he wanted to leave. I agree with his statement above.

I see that as positive about the marriage counseling, didn't you mention there was a free service near you?? Also, have you ever spoke to your church about counseling??

OH, now might be the perfect time to pick up the book Surrendered Wives and give it a browse through, see if you see any part of your 'controlling self' in it. It is NOT a book on how to be a doormat, but a book on how to let go of control you never had, ie...trying to control your husband and failing at that. It's not a cure all, but could certainly shed some light on some of what you may have been trying to accomplish in the past, and how to make changes for the better. They have a website if you want to read the first two chapters, www.surrenderedwife.com or is it wives....hmmm forgot!

Anyway, you're doing great!! Congratulations! It is so wonderful that the first two posts I read tonight have long history of waiting patiently, and finally, FINALLY the fog lifts ....YAY!!!

Shepette <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks again everyone ... I still see fog lifting, but we are not there yet.

I am definitely hopeing and praying and trying not to lb. I love this man, especially who he used to be.

He used to be a man with a drinking prob., now it is worse, and the controlling me came out ot the drinking prob.- alanon wife, fixer, trying to make everything right... at my command that is.

I know I messed up and became a less loving, kind, and fun playmate, ... instead to the bossy, angry wife demanding that my h grow up, work hard and be a man! It is bad some of the ways I acted. At times I gave up got depressed and let things fall on him... I thought i was stopping the enabling, at other times I just yelled and screamed... at him and even told him how stupid he is, and irresponsible and how i knew better than him.. things all men love to hear, right? SOmehow I thought he would never leave me. I even told him and this rings in his ears, you will be in a ditch without me... this was an answer to a real life arguemnt, where he threatedned to leave because I was not giving sf, etc. because I was not getting my needs met... i thought that was fair. Well, turns out they do look elsewhere.. I even told him to that same night I told him how stupid he would be to lose me.

sadly it was / is terrible for me to lose him. Despite his imperfections... breaking up a family is the most awful, terrible , horrible thing I have ever experienced.

I am praying for more clearance of the fog. I wnt my family/ marriage/ life back.

Yes, with boundaries, but not ordering them. I will take a look at surrendered wife.. I have that one too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs and thanks, honey

Honey,

when you check out that website, you can sign up to get a weekly Surrendering Wife newsletter, you know how much I loved that book, read it in 2 nights!! I was also very controlling!!

I really think you can Plan A and still have boundaries. You are a person that he wants to respect and love. Keep being that person, remember 1 Peter Ch 3, actions speak louder than words!!

I am a true believer that if you treat someone the way you want to be treated, eventually you will get that. Show that you are such a loving person that deserves all the love and respect in the world. And remember, if he starts to disrespect you, simply say the words "I am sorry you feel that way", and get out of the situation. This way you are putting his feelings back onto himself.

Let us know how lunch goes tomorrow!!

Honey,
Here are my suggestions,
1. You take thirty days OFF from mentioning the word affair, maid, what you want from him etc...
2. That you plan A him with all focus and contact being centered around family issues and activities.
I think you should plan things with the kids on weekend invite him let him know how much you want him to join in ...but go ahead with plans with or with out him...
You should invite him over for dinner during a weeknight...and have him HELP with homework or any other school project the kids may have...
If any of the boys are invited to a birthday party in the next thirty days ask him to help you take them....
Focus your plan A on the FAMILY and not the relationship soley....let him see and feel exactly what he is missing in a consistant time frame with no pressure from you about any of the "adult issues"....
Resist any of your urges to discuss them with them...which is your hardest challenge...because we all know how deeply you feel and hurt over these things...but it is that grand passion to fix things that while very noble often smacks you back in the face...
Continue with ALANON consistantly,.....
I recommend no overnights at his place...no dates...no lunches unless with the kids...create and show him a warm family environment in which it is impossible for you or him to discuss any deep issues...but show him a clear picture of what he has abandoned...without LBing...actions often speak louder than words...and the both of you often get stuck in the same word battles and cycles.....
Be gracious and fun accept his refusals to join in family times..let him know you would love for him to be there...but hey it's OK if not...
Show him now when he is talking about wanting to come back...that you and the boys are just doing great...
Let go of the hurt and blame for thirty days...he has been out a long time..so you can do this...you have been all along....give yourself a rest...give your children the opportunity to be with mom and dad without pressure and conflict...

use actions not words for thirty days...be strong and confidant...show that you can go on with or without him by continueing on with life....
Do it now while he begining to verbalize his thoughts on wanting to come home...show him how great home is and can be...
peace to you and your boys
ARK

thanks for the good advice, I guess we can talk adult issues later.

I appreciate it. It is very hard, .... but he is seeming to Want to come home, just trying to fall back on... gee, you treated me soooo bad I h ad to leave.

not .

It is so hard to deal with a foggy mind, that blames me for his mistakes.

He still has 6 months, or 5.5 to go on his new lease- dont know if I can deal with this all that long?

I can quit mentioning the lies and hurts he has thrown on me, but what will he do about them?

Honey

"I can quit mentioning the lies and hurts he has thrown on me, but what will he do about them?"

Honey..that thought process is the exact one that you keep stumbling over...again and again...

You can't change him, control him, or make him make things better....He may never do anything about anything..and it is up to you to approach all interactions with you in control...

And in all honesty keeping up mentioning all the lies and hurts thus far...hasn't gotten you any where anyways....let them go for now...time to change your attack plan....

You keep giving him power and expectations and each and every time he fails you add that to your list....of hurts...

You even go to him looking for them...did the maid call....did this happen yet...did you go here or there...etc...stop for you sanity and sake....

Let go of any and all expectations of him making any of this better and figure out what you can do to make it better. independant of his actions....
Create a place that is fun and safe and free from pressure for YOU...it sounds like he is getting off free...but the truth more damages and set backs occur for you when you confront him...and he fails you again...

Let him begin to feel safe in an adult manner continue to approach his actions as his responsiblitity....he has shown some glimmer of light...scare him off now and you will be back to step one...and I don't give a rats behind how he feels, this is all said to protect you Honey...you've been spiining and waffling a long long time...time to get a grip and make a plan and stick to it,....

thirty days sabatical no relationship talk...no questions about OW, Maid,
Have fun focusing on family, kids,
go to alanon
ARK

Honey,
Ark is giving you good advice.

I know all you think you want right now is for him to be home...but as soon as he is home, you'll want more. Trust me on that.

You'll want him to have a job. You'll want him not to be drunk. You'll want him to be kind, loving. You'll want to know where he is when you aren't with him.

He'll want you to be kind. He won't want you to bring up his failures of the As. He likely won't want you to bug him about drinking or where he is.

Being home is a start, but it isn't enough.

I advise trying to get along for weeks, a month before he comes home, to see what kind of relationship you can have without the pressure/tension of being in the same household.

If he can make changes without coming home, that is a good indication that he will keep it up if he does come home.

he is not planning on coming home right now anyway, and he does have a lot to prove first... guess I will give him a chance without any pressure.
he says there are no women, ok. then lets see if.

he says he wants to be friends first before a relationship.

he brings up good memories of the past, proof he remembers.

He has kind of stopped the mean comments he gives me , on weight, etc. at least for a week or two.. that I rmemember... yeah the maid has been in mex a few months and as he says she wasnt much compettiion anyways.. it is just so hard to let it go.

I will for a month, mark my words today on the 18th ark... thanks for the advice. I have done it before and it worked, no asking, no ?s , no lbs on my part.. let him do any lbs and I will back off..t hat is my role.

Today we are having lunch, hopefully m ore pleasant than yesterday.

Yes. was still nice, just spiced with hurt and sarcasm.. etc. not the best.

Anyway, today will be better and this weekend me and the kids have our own plans, he will be invited when approp.

Thank you all again.. HONY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I non-lbed in 2 emails he just wrote me about when he is coming by to pick me up.

I am going to act like I did back when we dated, before we married, like we are not married.

I will try to invite him and welcome him with kids, and he is still seeing them every other weekend.

I am working on meeting his en's as best I can.

He is trying to work, make money and provide and in his words...

Does not want me to bring up any of the CRA+ , you know what I mean.

I am tired of it too.

I have to let it go.

It is so hard. I did not find the surrendered wife last night, I became overwhelmed by my kids and messy house.. plus got home late from dad's 60th bday party.. small but still took time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway, I am going to a no lb lunch with him. best behavior for this all too bold girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks, HONEY