Ok people....gonna blow a little steam here.

Brace yourself.

Really, I'm in good shape. Handling the impending Dv rather nicely. Have a very positive outlook on life, and am more hurt by having to leave the place that I have called home for the past 14 years, rather than the fact that my WW and I are no longer going to be married. That's a good sign.

It doesn't hurt that there are MULTITUDES of single, intellectual, attractive 30-ish women all over the place! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My self-confidence has improved greatly over the past month or so.

I'm going to be just fine.

How often does a single, 40 yr old male, secure employment, good nest egg, new home, no children get the opportunity to do it all over again?

This time with a h3ll of a lot more knowledge. I know there are no guarantees, but I do know that my experiences are going to make my odds much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have learned a lot. Both through my hard-earned experiences, and the support and care from ALL of you here on MB.

Geez...that made me realize that many people in life that go through DV with no sense of direction or purpose, and just "roll" with the punches, are missing out on a great education.

Sure....None of us wanted our respective scenarios, but we are here because we HAD to know more. We needed to know more. We demanded more. We were determined to get something positive out of this mess, even if it was not what we wanted as a first choice.

Nothing like a good old-fashioned education.

Back to my topic header.....

Anyway, met with my attorney today, as he had a copy of the preliminary draft of our settlement agreement that the WW's attorney had drawn up. Everything looked in order, just had to add a little wording that I had requested initially, and the WW's attorney wanted us to just mark and add the changes ourselves, and then he would redo it.

Guess what? The WW's best friend is now my attorney's paralegal. Ain't that a hoot! I had never met her, as she worked with the WW at the WW's law firm until just a couple of months ago. She had known about the A the entire time, too. She did manage to tell me that she was adamantly against it, and told WW multiple times. She also wanted to reiterate to me that since she had switched from one law firm to another, that there were certain cases and files that she was not allowed to access. Mine was one of them. She said that she told the WW from the start not to ask her anything about it. They talk everyday, she said. Now, for the interesting part, and the subject material.....

She told me that WW has told everyone that she could not think of one single bad thing to say about me. I was a very good husband. That none of this was my fault (wish she could say that to ME!). WW's friend volunteered that WW was a little bit too needy on the attention. I was getting bits and pieces of opinions from her, and she would catch herself and stop.

Then the WW's friend did it.

She said that damned phrase.

WW's friend: WW really struggled with all of this. She cried to me many hours.

HCII: I know that feeling. Want me to give you an idea of how bad it is?

WW's friend: Sure.

HCII: Even though you probably are aware of how much I hate OM, I hope that HE never has to feel it. NO person has EVER done anything bad enough to have to live and experience that feeling. No one.

WW's friend: (Silent w/ watery eyes for a moment...then, out it came)

WW's friend: Deciding on DV was a VERY hard decision for WW to make. She COULDN'T STAND THE THOUGHT OF HURTING YOU.

HCII: (silently brewing)*(*(&##$$*#$#$*#$*#$#$+(*#$+#
#(*$#(*#$(*#$
#$(#)$*(#+$)#($

Gawd.....What the h3ll has the last 3 years been? She didn't give a [censored] about hurting me. Do I look like that big of a doofus? Geez...give me a break, puhleez!

I wish I could think of a way to catch those words as they appeared, and shove them back where they came from. Those words do not deserve to be spoken. Those words are NOT for me. Those are for HER satisfaction.

I swear....If I hear that one more time, I'm gonna puke.

And then there is one more.....

Now, anytime the WW happen to speak, which has only been 2 or 3 times over the last 5 or 6 months, and she is leaving, out it comes....

TAKE CARE!

Just tell me f****** bye, would you? She has NEVER used the saying "take care", until the day she couldn't say ILY. Geez, that may be my inner child, and may be trivial, but I CAN'T STAND THOSE WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next time, (and there will be a next time, I'm sure) I am going to say this:

"I sure will! I found out that I couldn't depend on YOU to do it."

Those are my biggest problems right now.

And if so, I must be doing rather well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There IS life after.

Boo

Good for you!! Sounds like you're on your way to healthy and greener pastures!! Every pasture has a road that leads up to it, umm, that sounds cheezzy, but I'll let it stand! This is an interesting post in that you are getting FOG BABBLE second-hand. Shouldn't there a be a law about second-hand FOG?

-blueberry

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Good for you!! Sounds like you're on your way to healthy and greener pastures!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep....WW is admiring HER greener pasture at the moment, also.

It's just that her green grass is hiding all those cow patties. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Boo

Those aren't "patties". They are land mines!

Ya know, there are just phrases like that one that people say when they don't know what else to say. I know after our tornado the phrase that almost lead to homicide was "atleast no one got hurt". Hey, I was totally glad that no one was physically harmed...but after months upon months of hearing that from people I wanted to scream THIS F**KING HURTS!!! But, in my usual manner, I turned it around to become somewhat of a joke between my friends and I. I told them that next time someone said that I was going to give them an evil grin and say something like "well, you could be the first!!". It made us all laugh and every time someone would say that they'd all get a look on their faces like...ooh, is this going to be the straw?? LOL!! I think her friend meant well...and it's obvious she doesn't approve of your wifes actions...it just seems to be easier to say the wrong thing, than nothing.

You're dealing with this really well HCII...as well as can be expected. It's gonna hurt, it's gonna suck...but you have a full life ahead of you with your new education and your reputation intact.

And hey...atleast nobody got hurt... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hcii

She COULDN'T STAND THE THOUGHT OF HURTING YOU.

And the next time someone says that just very calmly say:

“She did purposely hurt me, with thought or concern for my well being. Her words mean nothing.”

I hate it when people come off with this meaning less drivel. Of course WS’s mean to hurt us. They purposely enter into affairs knowing all the time it’s going to hurt. They only wish they could behave in that manner and not hurt anyone. But they know what they are doing and do not give one hoot.

You got me to thinking...

In the "spying" I've done in the past, I've found that my WW has often signed correspondence with OM with "Take care"...

I always took that to heart in many ways, because it told me she could never bring herself to say ILY to them... I think she knew / knows deep-down that it's not real love.

Of course, when the ILY's for me stopped, I had to wonder... did her love just "vanish" - or is she just running away from it, hiding it, trying to convince herself? I think we all know the answer. I did nothing to destroy her love for me after d-day - other than the ordinary stuff everyone does, I think. And the kind of love she / we have / had isn't the type that just disappears. One has to cross hell and back to get rid of it.

The same is true for your WW, hcii. If she thinks Dv is the "solution"... she'll eventually realize it's going to be a part of her "problem". Not exactly a badge of honor to wear, especially when she can't think of anything bad to say about you... sounds like my WW too... (admitted I'm Prince Charming at points along the way.)

I dunno. I say continue to give her no reasons to say or think anything bad. That'll frustrate and confuse.

You got me to thinking...

In the "spying" I've done in the past, I've found that my WW has often signed correspondence with OM with "Take care"...

I always took that to heart in many ways, because it told me she could never bring herself to say ILY to them... I think she knew / knows deep-down that it's not real love.

Of course, when the ILY's for me stopped, I had to wonder... did her love just "vanish" - or is she just running away from it, hiding it, trying to convince herself? I think we all know the answer. I did nothing to destroy her love for me after d-day - other than the ordinary stuff everyone does, I think. And the kind of love she / we have / had isn't the type that just disappears. One has to cross hell and back to get rid of it.

The same is true for your WW, hcii. If she thinks Dv is the "solution"... she'll eventually realize it's going to be a part of her "problem". Not exactly a badge of honor to wear, especially when she can't think of anything bad to say about you... sounds like my WW too... (admitted I'm Prince Charming at points along the way.)

I dunno. I say continue to give her no reasons to say or think anything bad. That'll frustrate and confuse.

Boo,

I just finally had a chance to read your post and I want to let you know that I believe you will do better than you ever expected to. With everything I've read in your posts, I know that you will find true happiness. Unfortunately, you still need to tie up all of the loose ends that are still holding YOU back.

I completely relate to your pain of having to give up a home that you've had for so many years.
I chose to give mine up when I walked out that door. You didn't really have a choice. I think the pain that you might be feeling is directed more at the loss of the "dreams" that were represented in that house and in finally having to give this up, you are being forced to let go of those dreams. I sense in many of your posts that you are READY to do this.....and you deserve a new life with much love and happiness.

The only thoughts I can offer to you for this situation is that you will have another home, and it will be even better because you are starting a brand new chapter in your life. You will have new dreams, you definately will have a great relationship with your next partner, and you know what you DON'T want in your life. You will not have all of the memories tied with that old house haunting you every day, and it will make it easier for you to begin anew.

As far as the comment "Take care", I myself am extremely guilty of using this phrase towards XBF. I tell him this because I genuinely do feel deep things for him and I feel that telling him "ILY" would be much more painful for him than to express it with these words. I'm glad that you expressed your feelings here because ot gives me a little perspective on what his thoughts might be when I try to show my true feelings. I guess it must anger him too. After all, I avoided any emotional interactions with him for the better part of two years. It must seem really weird to suddenly hear me expressing caring, and nuturing phrases after he gave up any hope of hearing them again. I guess I would ask, "What would you be comfortable with as a phrase from your STBX when you are ending a topic?" Perhaps you might tell her that the current phrase she uses isn't appropriate and that in the future you would like a less personal statement from her.

From what you've written, I get the sense that your STBX does have deep feelings for you and she really wants for you to be happy. She is still chasing her demons, and only she can determine the outcome of her life. This does not have to hold you back from staying healthy and moving towards a happier, more peaceful way of life.

hcii:

I guess I musta thought that your DV was final a while ago. Time flies when you're "having ..." well, that cliche doesn't really apply very well, does it?

It's clear that your W has some serious issues of her own 2 overcome. Chief among these is being open and honest with HERSELF, let alone those around her. 2 have all that bottled up for the sake of pride, or whatever this is, is truly tragic. How did she get this way? Well, I look at your W as a characature of my own W's behavior. My W has not been quite so "far gone" as yours seems 2 be, but very much the same thing went on between us for many years now, and I'm just starting 2 realize my part in it. And since I can't change HER but CAN change ME, that's what I'm doing, and it's finally working 2 the better. Look, my W has always been an outgoing, thoughtful, caring, loving person. How does THAT work with an A going on and off for 12 years??!! Well, I truly believe she "didn't INTEND 2 hurt me" beyond the "normal" game-playing many of us do anyway. I think quick "decisions" 2 spite another happen and get out of control equally quickly, and so I'll attribute the start of my W's A 2 her initially subconscious desire 2 spite me for not being there for her when she was confused. I've thought a lot about my own shortcomings that might have contributed 2 her deciding 2 have an A (because *I* have 2, because she woudln't or couldn't TELL me), and I think I'm truly beginning 2 understand them such that I can start 2 do something about them.

I can't control HER. I can't even control Rat Meat (and neither can she). I CAN control ME, though. But it's amazing just how little I have understood ME all my life, So, I'm doing a lot of internal reflection lately. If I *win*, my changes really WILL have a positive effect on my W (like plan A is supposed 2, right?), and we'll have a happy restored M. If I also win, if we really aren't "meant 2 be" we can DV amicably and live happily apart. No remorse on either side. I don't plan on entertaining thoughts of losing.

doubular post

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

"It's just that her green grass is hiding all those cow patties."

Cattle Fritters!! Texas Frisbies!!

another 2ble post!

-22lloonngg

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as the comment "Take care", I myself am extremely guilty of using this phrase towards XBF. I tell him this because I genuinely do feel deep things for him and I feel that telling him "ILY" would be much more painful for him than to express it with these words. I'm glad that you expressed your feelings here because ot gives me a little perspective on what his thoughts might be when I try to show my true feelings </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just realized exactly what it is about the "take care" phrase that bothers me. The reply above, Kily, made it plain to me.

There is a distinct difference in when you say it to exBF, and the WW says it to me.

In my case, first understand that in the 16 years that I have known my wife, I cannot think of ONE single time that she used that phrase. When leaving her family, it was usually an "ILY, bye", or something similar. If it was a close friend, a simple "talk to you later", or "see ya later" with "goodbye" or "bye" was the rule. NEVER, EVER, "take care".

In my neck of the woods, "take care" is usually used when there is going to be a "long while" before you see each other again, and is reserved for people that you actually care about.

#1, She doesn't need to keep reminding me that this is a "painful, extended", goodbye.

#2, It really irks me when she is trying to say to me that she cares, right after having an almost 3-year A, and is now living with OM #2.

Does she really care? If she does, why has she NEVER said "I'm sorry"? That's correct. Those words are yet to spew from her mouth.

I guess I relate it exactly to what her best friend said to me at my lawyer's office. It wasn't her best friend's words, but rather her BF was repeating what the WW had told her. The WW told her that DV'ing me was the hardest decision to make, because she didn't want to "hurt" me by Dv'ing me.

She didn't care to PURPOSELY have an A for 3 years. She didn't care to tell me that she felt as though she was "cheating" on OM instead of the other way around. Even though we are Dv'ing, we still ARE NOT, yet she moves in with another man. Instead of having a little decency and waiting just a little while until I get moved out, you'd think she could refrain from having OM #2 here in my face, next door.

Now, pray tell, does that sound like someone who cares about hurting me? She still thinks that those words will make me think that she cares, and that is EXACTLY what SHE wants.

She is trying to convince HERSELF that she isn't huring me.

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

In your case Kily, you ARE showing that you care. You do make it a point to be with him. Even though your past may not have shown it, your present state does. You are not telling him to "take care", and then running off to OM immediately after.

So...basically, the way it gets to me is this:

She is reminding me that I am unique from other people, because she doesn't say that to anyone else, and that she cares, but, I'm not sorry for hurting you, and you're gonna have to live with the fact that I am noe leaving to be with OM.

In other words, "We had something special, but now we don't, HA HA".

Where I come from, we call that "rubbing your nose in it".

(vent mode off)

Sorry about that long winded post. That just really gets to me.

Boo

BTW...The WW's best friend did volunteer something that sort of made me feel better. It was a criticism of the WW, but it being just that was not what made me feel better. It was the fact of a personality trait that just strengthens my opinion of one of the downfalls of our M.

"She really, really likes to be the center of attention".

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees that.

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: hcii ]</small>

Hey hcii, that phrase doesn't hold a candle to the question that my xWW has asked me a couple of times "can we still be friends?". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The last time she asked me this question, I asked her if she could ever be friends of someone that had murdered a child? She gave a me a confused look and asked me 'what does that have to do with still being friends?' ARGGHHH! I regained my composure and said to her slowly and without emotion in my voice 'the love I had for you was very much like a child, it needed attention, protection, food, and shelter, when you had your affairs, you ignored, harmed, poisoned, and threw that child out on the streets, in other words, you murdered that child. So once and for all, never, ever ask me that question again'. So far I'm lucky and it's been over two months (a record) since the last time she asked.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey hcii, that phrase doesn't hold a candle to the question that my xWW has asked me a couple of times "can we still be friends?". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM,

Been there, done that. A couple of times, and the last time was the very last time that we spoke (09/04).

She asked (well...actually didn't ASK) "I would like for us to still be friends".

Ain't gonna happen, I told her.

She then spoke about our pets, our two cats. One of them we have had since we married. She asked if I was going to keep her from seeing them. "I sure am", I said. "You haven't given a darn about them in over 4 months, so why are you concerned, now?"

"You mean you won't let me come to visit them?", she asked.

That's when I wanted to tell her that there were 2 things that she would NEVER see......

Heaven, for what she's done, and two, the inside of my new home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I just let it slide, though. She ain't worth it.

Boo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess I musta thought that your DV was final a while ago. Time flies when you're "having ..." well, that cliche doesn't really apply very well, does it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2Long,

All I can say is this:

It's been real.

It's been fun.

But it ain't been real fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But it's getting better!

Boo

hcii:

"That's when I wanted to tell her that there were 2 things that she would NEVER see......
Heaven, for what she's done, and two, the inside of my new home.
I just let it slide, though. She ain't worth it."

More important, YOU aren't that low. You and all of us here know that.

Weird, but I'm betting some MB greenbacks (like monopoly money) that this ain't over. Your STBXW has a lot of eye-opening 2 do in the next couple of years. OM2 ain't going 2 "solve" her problems, and it's only a matter of time before that's done. Then what? OM3, 5, 32398? That lifestyle won't satisfy her for long, either.

Another zinger for the toxic waste site: "Get over it!"

It only passed her lips once, but if I hear that one again I swear I'm going to up and move to the extreme northern part of Alaska, where the temperature is downright balmy compared to how that phrase leaves me feeling!

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: shattered in SF ]</small>