Prozac poster-boy!

How you doin' with Schnarch's monolith?

Your most recent musings have a new flavor.

Pepster

Hi Pepper!

Thanks for asking how ol' 2long is hanging (in there)!

I haven't read PM in a couple of months now, sorry! I also haven't been 2 a counselor, either. I have been in daily correspondence with a mu2al friend, and am reading and listening 2 CD's from Greg Baer about "The Truth About Relationships". Applying the "principles" of unconditional love 2 my life, not just my M, has produced some majorly visible responses from my W in the past 3 months.

Saturday, she told me "You really are an awfully nice person." Which, if I had felt sarcasm would have been productive, would have said something like "I hope I can make someone a good H someday", but I refrained.

My W understands that it's "reasonable for me 2 expect her 2 not speak 2 Rat Meat again", but she's still having a hard time breaking contact. I snooped again recently, and all but one message between them in the past month and a half has been work-related. The one was Rat Meat saying he was in CA recently, and he wanted 2 see her, but there wasn't time. She replied about her original work question and IGNORED his comment about being in CA.

Is this recovery? I think so, though it's certainly not conventional. It's mostly me recovering myself. I have learned an awful lot about myself and my behavior over the past couple of decades, probably my whole life, that has put people, even close friends and certainly my W, at a distance. I am working on fixing that!

Again, thanks for asking me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I should add that I intend 2 pick up PM again after I'm done with Baer's book. My W also expressed an interest in PM. I hope she'll also take one in Baer's book and CD's. The benefit of both of those books is that they don't put the WS on the defensive, which SAA and even HNHN did with my W. She just won't read them.

Oh yeah! And I stopped taking Prozac about 3 weeks ago. I feel fine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ October 20, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Hi 2Long. I dunno if this is "common," but in my sitch. it seemed as though one party in the A becomes the persuer, and the other seems to enjoy being persued, but didn't initiate.

After d-day, my W almost always initiated any contact. And OM always responded, but never initiated. It all seemed very one-sided to me, at least from what I was able to see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The only way it stopped is when the persuer (in this case, my W) was told to stop.

That she ignored the CA comment is good (though, let's be honest, she could have replied to that in some other way--phone, etc.), but until contact is broken, I expect he'll keep testing the waters.

Believe me, I understand about "unconventional," so I'm not gonna quote SAA or something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Do you ask her about her C w/ OM? Does she tell you EVERYTHING? Prob. not.

What I learned was that NC was not so much about my jealousy, but about something that was intentionally in our relationship--C w/ OM--that my W needed to lie to me about. No good can come from that. Finally, my W has gotten that... hope the same will be true for you.

I had to find a "safe" way to broach that--I couldn't say, "well, hon, I was snooping in your e-mail the other day..." Prob. you can't do that either.

Hi 2long,

I also think you are sounding much better. You have been giving some very good help, and your words show a strength that wasn't there before. I find I don't worry about you nearly as much as in the spring, and that is good. Please keep it up.

You haven't reported on how the house is coming or how the rest of the family is for quite some time. Not that you have to, but those of us who care about you would like to know. (maybe you have reported but I missed it?)

Anyway, glad you are doing well.
SS

Riff:

Thanks for your comments!

"Hi 2Long. I dunno if this is "common," but in my sitch. it seemed as though one party in the A becomes the persuer, and the other seems to enjoy being persued, but didn't initiate."

I've thought about this. It 2k me a while 2 get past my own emotional reaction 2 it, but I think my W is the persued here, and likes the attention. This isn't the first time I've seen her ignoring his "advances" either. But the work relationship continues 2 provide an excuse for responding. In some cases, she's ac2ally the initiator, but these are in relation 2 the work he's contracted 2 do for her. But it sounds like an excuse 2 me, particularly when I'm in pessimist mode.

"The only way it stopped is when the persuer (in this case, my W) was told to stop."

I've ac2ally considered telling Rat Meat 2 stop on a number of occasions, but nearly everyone tells me it won't work. I have told my W that "it hurts me" and she's aware. All the emails from her 2 him were completely lacking in any personal remarks (not so much as a "you'd look nice in that tux at your cousin's wedding" or similar things I USED 2 see months ago). But my W is only just starting 2 feel comfortable being honest with me about her feelings, as *I* am only just starting 2 feel comfortable talking 2 HER (or anyone) about MY OWN feelings. I've got 2 give something for progress 2 occur. I've got 2 stop expecting anything, at the same time. I can only control ME. She can only control HER. Rat Meat is a loose cannon, totally out of control (because he's dating rather than rebuilding with his W).

"That she ignored the CA comment is good (though, let's be honest, she could have replied to that in some other way--phone, etc.),"

Thanks for that independent observation that this is a good sign. In the thick of it, it's not always easy 2 remember that. But you're also right in that they could easily go "underground" in many ways. This email I saw is on her new work account. I'm not even sure she's using the hotmail account anymore. I don't think she suspects that I could access her work account like I did, so the fact that she's not being personal with him is sincere, whatever that means. This is a delicate sitch. I won't drive her underground by an angry (or otherwise) confrontation. I can't TELL her what 2 do. I CAN (and will) show her what we have and how it can be better, so that SHE can make the right decisions on her own. And I believe she will.

"but until contact is broken, I expect he'll keep testing the waters."

I believe this is correct. It's HOW it's broken that's the key 2 "success" here. Not even when (because it's certainly not an on-going A like we read about all the time on this 4um). Only time will tell.

"Believe me, I understand about "unconventional," so I'm not gonna quote SAA or something."

Good, because I bought SAA when I was in the guest house for a week in July. What did I learn by reading it? Not a damned thing. Every last word in the book, I'd read and said on the 4um for months by that time. I realized, however, that the one person that could benefit from SAA, my W, NEVER would, because books about ending As put the WS on the defensive. Why would you read anything that starts by telling you, IN THE TITLE, that what you're doing (and trying SO hard 2 ignore) is WRONG? So, I'm reading Passionate Marriage (Schnarch) and The Truth About Relationships (Baer), which are about love and fixing M, not about As, and so don't put the WS (or anybody) on the defensive as much as the A-books. My W has expressed an interest in PM, but isn't interested in reading HNHN, which is rather "benign" regarding As.

"Do you ask her about her C w/ OM?"

I have. As recently as last month.

"Does she tell you EVERYTHING? Prob. not."

No, she does not. Should I put her on the rack and MAKE her tell me everything, though? No.

"What I learned was that NC was not so much about my jealousy, but about something that was intentionally in our relationship--C w/ OM--that my W needed to lie to me about. No good can come from that."

I agree 100%. Even the "jealousy" part. It's interesting, though. These days I'm not so much worried about contact because of jealousy as concern for the preservation of our family. Because, if for some reason our M is "wrong" and something else would be better for both of us, I'd truly like 2 give that option a chance 2 be discussed. But breaking our family apart is a scary prospect. It's also really unreasonable, and she must realize that because she's still here after 12 years of this nonsense.

"Finally, my W has gotten that... hope the same will be true for you."

I hope so, 2. I think it will happen, in time.

"I had to find a "safe" way to broach that--I couldn't say, "well, hon, I was snooping in your e-mail the other day..." Prob. you can't do that either.""

Definitely I can't do that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But I can reiterate that it hurts me and HER family that she's still in contact. I don't need 2 reveal my sources, either. Because, if she were 2 break contact permanently, I would bet my bottom dollar that she'd be bragging 2 me about the accomplishment. So, if she ever asks how I know, that's my answer. Because she hasn't told me she's stopped.

And here's a vent, because I PROBABLY would never do this... probably!:

Pretend email 2 Rat Meat:

Rat Meat:

Just 2 words. BACK OFF, A$$****!!!

My mistake, that was three words.
-2long

Multiple post!

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

So was this one!

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

SS:

Thank you, I DO feel a lot better of late.

The house is going.... ...slowly. We still don't have the final settlement resolved, though. Painting the exterior starts next week. We've got a waterproof roof now, though! SOME of the electricty is back on, but the whole house needs 2 be rewired, still.

Sa2rday was the one-yr anniversary of the fire. Kind of somber, but we kept busy and didn't think about it much at all.

We closed escrow on the other house we bought, and we worked on it this weekend. Good investment, and we hope 2 sell it 2 my SIL in a year or 2.

I am determined that we will MAKE IT. Either as a M couple or apart. I won't tolerate either of us crashing and burning. That's my plan.

bumping for SC (he doesn't use a Mac!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2Long, man I wish I had your insight and strength. Everytime I read something you post or a reply to mine, I feel like an amateur or better yet immature. I really hope everything works out for you in whatever direction it may take. If I become half of the person I see you to be, I'll consider myself very fortunate.

HW

HW:

Thanks, but if I become half the person I PROFESS 2 be, I'll feel like I've accomplished something! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All seriousness aside, I don't expect 2 ever stop growing, and I DO have a lot of growing 2 do still. I just hope I can truly grow up before I "step on a cloud and go home 2 Jesus!"

Well, well, well...sounds like I hide out for a bit and ol' 2L start hammerin' on my PC-preference...

and Pep, ever so sweet, looking after her "boys", and asking about us...very, very nice!

Glad to hear everything's going well, 2L! You hang in there, and keep the love going!

Hey Space,
if you are going to come around, you could least tell us how things are going. I mean, I suspect they are going pretty good, and your last report sounded positive, but we would like to know.

SS

And where's Pepper?

I think she's THERE, but since I am HERE, I don't know for sure.

I always thought since you are older than me, you would know all that kind of stuff.

I always tell my kids the reason I am so smart is because I am so old, and you are two years older than me.

Now I'm loosing faith in you.

Ss

SS:

The problem is (and this is why you should be worried) that right around your 48th birthday, you're brain starts 2 atrophy. Mine's alreay 50% jello, and it's only been a year!!

Well, 2long,
one month down, 11 to go.
I could run and scream, but it wouldn't do any good. I can't run very fast anyhow.

SS

SS:

Hey, don't feel 2 bad. Pepper's even older than *I* am! (DOH!). And the only one older than that's got 2 be Just Learning! I didn't think ANYBODY could be that old until I met HIM!

Now, if that doesn't get one/both of them 2 post 2 this thread, I don't know what will! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bump... he he he... Cause I'm mischevous!