I first became acquaind with marriagebuilders from my wife after she new I was having an affair. I tried many times to exit the affair, but couldnt, I was addicted. I promised my wife to end the affair, I didnt. I kept lying one more time and thought one more lie and then could get on with my marriage. The affair began on line and continued for almost a year and a half. ( I was going to leave my wife and marry the OW) Guilt, (the wake up call from God) kept eating at me and one event led to another and my wife called the OW. They set up a sting operation on me that worked. At first I was angry, then happy they did what they did because it finally accomplished what I couldnt or wouldnt do. The affair was over! finally. No telling how much longer it could of went on and/or how many more people I could of hurt. The last two weeks of my life have been the best and the worse (I thank God for the affair ending, food, friends, a place to sleep and a car, but most importantly for God loving me enough to let happen to me what did. The worse part is I love my wife and want our marriage to work. Now that this is done, Im anxious to rebuild the marraige but have one major problem. My wife and I have not spoken since this happened (2 weeks ago). I have sent her cards, letters, faxes, flowers and left her a few phone messages. I know that I have hurt her and betrayed her and she has every right to hate me or never speak to me again and want a divorce. I have spent the last 2 weeks with my inner self and God and feel like I have never felt before. How do I go about trying to rebuild when my wife doesnt?

Toolbox - <P>First thing you want to do is familiarize yourself with Dr. Harley's Marriage Building principles. Start with the information that this website provides and definitely buy (or check out from library) Harley's "Surviving an Affair". It is chock full of information and will provide a framework against which you can start the rebuilding process. If you can try to get your W to read it too. Right now, she is justifiably angry and VERY hurt, depressed. However, she is lucky in that you want to rebuild. Most betrayers usually are not too motivated to rebuild.<P>I am the betrayed in my situation. My W left me for a married OM in June (he's a rich foreigner whose wife lives in Germany with their 4 kids). She has been living with him since July and has recently filed for divorce. As the betrayed, I am trying like h*ll to bring her back to me to rebuild the marriage. She is so deep into her affair that nobody (family, friends, co-workers, etc.) can get through to her.<P>I know you are looking for help, and I'm here to do just that as best I can. May I ask a question of you toolbox? Can you help me understand from your perspective just how intoxicating this feeling is when you are in an affair? Did it make you want to alienate everyone and everything in your life in order to keep it going? My wife is in serious self destruct mode now and it would help to understand that this is "normal" for someone in an affair. Thanks.

yes, i would do anything to try and get my wife to divorce me. i didnt want to associate with anyone, including my father in law who i have know for 20 years. ( i have been married for 8 years)i was totally addicted to the emotional and sexual feeling that the OW gave me. we actually talked about marriage, her family accepted me and on and on. What I ahve found out since is that I was addicted to the woman. My wife originally introduced me to dr. harleys writings and i played along with it, but could not break the affair. thats why im glad they did what they did...they did me a big favor. NOW that the affair is finally over, I want nothing more than to rebuild my marriage, but she wants nothing to do with me. I understand how she feels, but also know the power of prayer. I read you story, WOW, i have you on my prayer list. Go get the book, The relationship toolbox, read it. its the best 14.95 I ever spent. keep praying and let God do the rest.

toolbox - <P>The Relationship Toolbox. Ok, I'll try to find it (either in the library or at the bookstore).<P>I'm so glad you are relying on God to sort out your difficulties. Before my W's affair, we were just a couple of lapsed Catholics...you know the type, go to church once or twice a year, believing that if we were good, we'll get into heaven.<P>My W's betrayal has been a spiritual WAKE UP call to me. My sister-in-law had directed me to Christ to help me through this. Since then, I have accepted Him into my heart and I have seen hard evidence that He is working through me. My W actually told me that she believes that God brought the OM into her life. We all know that she has mistaken the great deciever for God. I pray for God to defeat Satan's grip on her soul. Even if she does not come back to me, I want to know that she will be saved.<P>Toolbox, don't give up hope. Lean on God, apply Harley's principles (even if it's a one way street for the time being), and show/tell her you love her. She may want some space...your going to have to give that to her. She's hurting very much and there's not much you can do about it.<P>I must go now for the evening. I'll check back in the morning to see how you're doing.

Toolbox, I'm very happy for you that you are out of the affair, now it's time for you to heal and your wife. I am the betrayed, my H met someone on-line also, the bottom line is there were problems before this started on the computer. I can only tell you my feelings from a "betrayed" point of view. You said "I know how she feels", Toolbox you have no idea the pain and hurt you have caused, with time and if your wife chooses to work on your marriage, you will see it for a long time. The pain I felt after I found out about my H, was so intense....words can not describe. She knows you chose someone over her, she is probably questioning who you are, she has been lied to over and over again, and only now when you have been caught did the affair end. The same was true for me and my H, it didn't stop until he was caught red handed. Then it stopped cold in it's tract. He also came to his senses, and I'm happy to say we've been in recovery for over a year. You need to let your wife greive the marriage she lost, she needs to decide what to do now. All you can do is to let her know that you love her, allow her to be angry and don't ever blame her for the affair....that was only your choice. I wish the two of you nothing but the very best, I wish everyone could work it out like we did.

thanks gladimadeit<BR>do i keep sending her cards? does she read them? i started sending her flowers today and have ordered them to be sent every monday, is this okay? i know the affair was my choice, and if it was not for the 2 of htem, no telling where it would of ended..please keep us in your prayers

to shattered1<BR>yes i meant to answer your questions more directly instead of going on about my own problems. im here to help you too. yes, during the affair you are on a high. the addiction is convincing that you are actually in love. i believe that everyone of us has some self worth...your W has her down times believe me where she thinks of her actions. The wake up call from God called Guilt will hit her one day, it hit me right between the eyes, but i ran from it and God. I look at it as though God allowed to happen to me what did for a reason if nothing more than to bring me back into His fold. keep the faith all you have to do is ask God to help you and He's there. He's there even when we dont ask, but He loves it when we do. We have to depend totally on Him in everything.

Toolbox, Sorry I've been at work all day, Yes keep sending the cards and flowers...but try to set up something with her to see her. It's possible that the longer she is away from you the madder she will get. Try to set up something maybe for lunch in the park, tell her you know she has questions and you are willing to answer all of them the best you know how. Don't get defensive is she is angry, right now she has every right to be angry at you. Are you going to counseling alone? If not, I would recommend you do and let her know that. I believe that if she asked you to come to this site in MB then she wanted to save her marriage. Does she know you are posting now? It might not be a bad idea for her to know.....just look at hopeful and empty shell. Do you have children? Maybe try to do something as a family if you do. Ask her to go to church with you. The hardest part is yet to come for you Toolbox, you now will have to build trust and right now you are at zero. Don't give up though, she will see that you are sincere. If you have any other question from my point of view just ask..... I'm praying for you and your wife.

Toolbox - <P>I like your attitude. I think we can really learn a lot from each other. I might be able to shed some light on how your wife may be feeling. At the same time maybe you can interpret some of my W's actions for me. Deal?

hey, how did I get drawn into this? ? Thanks gladimadeit, hopeful and I have gone through a lot, and this site has definitely helped tremendously.<P>Toolbox -- From what I have read of your story, and I must ocnfess that I haven't read your profile yet (I'm at work and haven't had all that much time) I think I would have to agree with the advice you have been given so far. Continue to find ways to let your W know that you do love her and want to try to rebuild your marriage. Get yourself into counselling if you aren't already. You can learn so much about yourself that sometimes it is scary. I also have to agree with gladimadeit, if your W asked oyu to come to this site, then she must have a desire to rebuild. Maybe by ignoring you she is trying to let you feel some of the hurt she felt? You might want to let your W know that you havestarted posting here. Tell her your screen name, and let her come see what you are saying, what you are asking. It might help.<P>I don't know if any of this helps you or not toolbox, but you are in the right place.<P>God Bless

gladimadeit<BR>i have asked her if i can come out to take her tolunch and even said i would be on a plane the enxt day to see her. shes in las vegas im in jenkintown, pa. i have not spoken to her in almost 3 weeks, i have left a few mesasges and sent cards and like i have described. i dont know if she reads them. yes im going to counseling 2 time s aweek and though i must admit, the last 3 weeks have been the worse and the best of my life. when she asked me to get involved in Mb i told her the affair was over...well it wasnt, but now that it is, im excited to rebuild and renew.i havnt told her im posting here, becaus eat this time i think all she would think is that im not sincere (trust) she does know im going to counseling. no kids by this marriage. i know im at zero and believe that GOd has already intervened, but. in my next letter i will mention that i willanswer any questions that she amy have...thanks for the advice and help and your .prayers

shattered1<BR>deal!

emptyshell<BR>i got drawn into this by the computer. my wife wasnt meeting emotional/sexual needs, heck we quit talking and doing anythig together except arguing. i was not strong enough to sit down and say , hey ihave a problwm ,lets get counseling and/or work on our marriage. i would give my life right now to be able to say that to her.. i am in counseling 2 times a week and enjoy it very much and yes its soemtime scarey. i feel more and more every day the pain that i have caused her. my dr. put me on anti depressants that have helped a great deal. if i let her know im posting here, she and the OW still talk, they will have my new e mail address. i did sign her up for MB. i think at this point, i will just keep doing what i have...thanks to all of you at Mb for your prayers and advice, i look fwd to it daily. thanks for your help and advice, i appreciate it veyr much.

Toolbox - <P>Good morning to you. I'm glad you went for the anti depressants. I'm on Zoloft - 100mg per day - and it made a WORLD of difference. They aren't happy pills, but they prevent you from sliding into the "suicidal" zone. I found that it took about 3 weeks for the effect to fully kick in.<P>You mentioned that your W is in LV now. Was this a planned vacation or is she there to get away from you? When you do talk to her, how is her demeanor? You should expect her to be very angry, depressed and scared. I'm not sure the best way to ask her, but you might want to consider somehow getting her on anti-depressants. I was so distraught the first 2 weeks or so that I actually thought about suicide. That feeling has NEVER before come over me and I pray to God that it never will again. It is the most destructive, hopeless, agonizing feeling I've ever had in my 40 years.<P>When is your W expected to come home?<P>You do have an advantage living in PA though toolbox...IF your W decides to file for divorce, I understand that if you don't agree, it can take 2 years. That is good because if she files soon, it would clearly be a "knee-jerk" reaction - the 2 year buffer gives you and her time to attempt a reconciliation.<P>I have the opposite problem as you. My W filed 2 weeks ago. Since I live in liberal MN, I can only expect 3-4 months MAX before it is final. There's a good chance that my W may still be in the midst of her fantasy even 3-4 months from now.<P>I pray that circumstances change. Now that the affair has been "outed" and she has completely alienated EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that loves her (including and especially her family), I'm counting on Dr. Harley's statistic that affairs of this type usually die within 6 months.<P>Toolbox, I really liked what you said about guilt being God's wake-up call. How did that start to affect you? Did you have complete disregard for just about everything else in your life during the affair? She came by on Monday to pick up here fall and winter clothes - obviously, she feels as if this will continue for awhile. I was completely devastated Monday evening...I cried for an hour. How are you doing today?

Bringing this back to the top for toolbox.

shattered1<BR>we have a home in las vegas, ihave a business ptnr her in pa, and got a condo here several months ago. guilt really started to eat at my insides about 4 months ago when i realized my wife did nothing to deserve what i was doing to her, by then i was soaddicted to the OW, i didnt care most of the time, but when driving, or being alone i would really feel bad. my wife would call me and i would treat her like s---. by not wanting to talk to her, i was just awful. when the OW and i would argue over my hurring up with the divorce (on my end) she would get upset and i would leave and feel so relieved only to call her back when she paged me, or i would think about her and call her and go back ot her. i basically lived 2 lives. the guilt really god bad to the point where i wished i would die in my sleep when my wife would fax me letter and or send cards to me or write me letters talking about us. we havnt spoken in almost 3 weeks now. my business assoc., here in pa has spokjen with her a few times and at least she is ok, all things considered. i will just keep praying and sending cards, letters and flowers to her. i am understanding more and more each day how i hurt her and im starting to feel worse every time i think about it. my 2 times a week counseling does wonders for me and i m finding out new things about me that i have never confronted before. im amazed at how much our past has to do with the future and our actions. the positive things is that i know God is working overtime in my life and im getting more back from Him by spending more time with Him, if that makes sense to you. One thing for sure is that God will never allow us to experience more or go thru more than we can handle so keep that in mind. women have a keen sense of intuition, (as i have found out) and they know whats going on ..so i resolve to just keep on the path that im on no matter what, and after the sharpness of hurt, fear and anger starts to go away, then we will talk. so keep the faith, pray for guidance daily, talk openly to God, write your prayers down to him and when you need additional help, just ask Him. He likes to be asked by us for help. the more dependent we become on Him, the more he can help us. Yoiu know im starting tolisten to myself write this to you and im amazed at my own personal growth from 3 weeks ago to today. thanks for your prayers, im praying for you too

Hi Toolbox -<P>Sorry I couldn't get here until now, but believe me when I say that you wouldn't have wanted me to with the way my head was!!! LOL!!!<P>I have a few questions.....<P>Have you still not talked with her? <P>How long do you have to stay in PA?<P>What was the general atmosphere after your Wife and OW confronted you? Were they chummy? Did you get tossed by both? Or was it more of a "make up your mind" kind of thing? <P>How long did Wife know about the affair and how and when did she tell you of MB?<P>What did she want then? Counseling (which you are doing now), honesty, and what else?<P>Have you addressed within yourself any of your contributions to the original problems that led to the lack of sex, etc. Do you have a clear picture of them and are you working on your part in them?<P>As far as the flowers, cards and letters, is this just doing something traditionally romantic or endearing? Or is this something that she absolutely would love. In other words, knowing your wife - as only you do - what would absolutely melt her heart? Under normal circumstances?<P>I'll give an example of what I mean....<P>I have been given flowers and cards and other "traditional" items by H for some reason or another.......but to really touch me...I would much prefer something that he put some thought into that was specifically for me (the person that I am) not something that didn't take much effort or imagination. I want to KNOW and FEEL that he is trying to put his all into repairing the relationship and this would show me that he knows how to start working by his actually thinking and doing on his own.<P>Does this make sense?<P>Try to think of something that you could put together that would show her some of the things I have said. I don't know her so I can't say what that might entail. Just something that is personal to her and her only - not a generic love token.<P>Along with that I would compose a letter telling her you love her, sorry for pain, hurt, being a jerk (Smiley Face!!), lying, losing integrity, etc. and what you have learned about yourself and to improve things, That you could never take back what you did and that you want to try to start anew with the knowledge of relationships and the personal growth that you have been experiencing. You would like to continue the path you both started out together on when you got married only this time a stronger, wiser and more caring man.<P>Being that she showed you this site, she must know about the fantasy part of infidelity, that however is not something that should be used by you as an excuse or a reason for her to give you another shot!! Just mention that you were to consumed by your own blindness to comprehend what she was trying to do for the both of you and to help move you forward into making the marriage as wonderful as it should have been - as it could have been if you had only seen her concern, love and common sense about the whole thing.<P>Top it off with how you should have trusted her and yourself enough to have been able to say the things that were troubling you but instead you foolishly ran from the partnership and escaped from the troubles.<P>This is only, of course, if this is how you feel......I'm only trying to give you some more personal wording. <BR> <BR>Hope this has helped you some.<P>If you think of any endearments that would be more personal in nature to touch her heart - try those. If you are not sure - let us help you figure it out.<P>Let me know what else I can do to help.<P>Hugs and Strength,<P>Sheba<P>PS - I commend you on the counseling and the work you have and will, I'm sure put into making yourself a stronger and better person, who will take the tools you will/have learned and apply them. Remember that communication is the key and that your wife is your partner - not your enemy.......when you turned away from her - that's what she was left with!

Hi toolbox..Promised I'd get back to you...so here I am. Not sure I can offer much more advice....Heck, not much success in my life at the moment!!<P>Anyway, for me, I would want actions, not just words. For him to show me he loves me enough to do some things, even though they might cause him pain, or might be hard. I have changed a lot, and spent a lot of time looking at myself (some of my recent posts talk about that), even though I'm not the betrayer. I believe that you have to start with the problems within the marriage in the first place. And wanting to fix them. Both of you. I would want him to show me some show of strength of feeling, that I was worth something to him. For him to commit to counselling with me, and want to make changes. To keep on going. For us both to acknowledge that we need to do things differently. To really want to be with me, not just because it was the best option. To surprise me sometimes, by doing things which I don't expect....like organising some time away, and not leaving it to me to organise kids etc. Or organise dinner, even at home, and bring home a romantic movie...one he knew I would like. And want to snuggle up together and watch it....better stop, depressing myself!<P> What TNT said was a really good point ....to do something that said...this is just for you....like for me, my H didn't buy me flowers very often, so that would show me he was really thinking about me. But, if he were to pick a bunch of flowers from the side of the road for me, and hand write me a love letter, and give them to me in person, that would mean so much more. <P>It's about restoring trust and honesty....I truly would like to believe things he has told me, but he has never backed them up with actions, so they mean nothing. For eg....he kept telling me he loved me and wanted to be with me, and needed to break away from the OW, but wasn't actually willing to do anything - like change jobs, or stop contact, or commit to counselling etc. Like when he told me about the 1st OW, but still maintains contact with her...It would have meant so much to me if he had said...I will no longer contact her...your feelings are more important than hers...I have done this for you...and it feels ok even if it hurts, because I care about you.<P>Is there anything you can do to try and show your wife some trust again? I mean, can you commit to not going online again, even if it means removing your internet connection? Something positive that says...this is painful to me, but your feelings are more important.<P>A book I have read and found really insightful, is "After the Affair". I can't remember who wrote it, but I'm sure you would find it. I got it from the library. It has lots of ideas if I remember rightly.<P>You are really lucky that the OW wanted to break this off with you....that must be a positive sign for your wife.<P>Read through the old threads on this board, going back a way...you're sure to find some good advice in similar threads.<P>Hang in there for the long haul...keep showing her by your actions that you have changed, and acknowledged your problems...keep the communication open...let her know you really want this to work from the heart, don't give up easily, give her time, she has a lot of hurt to work through.........I know!<P>Goodluck - Sorry I can't really help - I'm no success story, but wanted to post as you asked me.<BR>

Hi toolbox, told ya I would be here, just wasn't sure when I would have a chance.<BR>First let me tell you how happy I am that the affair is over, at least that part is over with.<P>In relation to the rest... the situation is a bit different from mine, but ... well, I agree with sheba, I like her suggestions, I also think exactly like so sad, when it happenned I wanted consistent actions more than words or offerings. I needed to know that my H not honly had ended the affair but that he was with me because he really wanted the marriage to work, not because it sounded like a good idea, or he was worrying about what the others would think or say about him. Actually, certain things that he used to do before and that I enjoyed, started to bother me at that time. He bought me flowers once, and I almost threw them on his face ( I used to love it before, and I love it again, but at that time I just rememebered one of the messages from the ow asking him if he had send flowers to her office, and all the times he gave me flowers while the affair was on ). Also, althoug our sex life improved ( due not only to the reconciliation but also because I was not taking my medication any more ) I started valuing more the emotional side of the relationship I didn't want to feel we were staying together because sex was good, I wanted him to hold me and touch me with no sexual connection, just because he felt like it. It helped me a lot when he finally "regained" memory of the happy times we had had in the past ( had forgotten all during the affair ) and was able to talk about it. Mainly I needed to feel I was important to him even after such a big storm, and any ways he was able to convey that to me, were steps towards the right direction.<BR>A letter ( like sheeba suggests ) would have been the best thing I could get from him , unfortunately that is one of the things that are almost impossible for him, so I had to do with a few words that he sometimes left me before going to work. Not much,but a lot for him, so I treasured them.<BR>Consistency, patience, understanging and gentleness were the key for me.<BR>Hope this helps some.<BR>Keep doing your best and keep posting.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Sheba, Sosad and Kat1<BR>i need to start sendign the 3 of you a check for the great advice. i hardly sent flowers to her so im sending themevery monday, im sending her cards and marriagebuilders info. she likes milano chocolate mint cookies, so today i will go to the store and get some with a card and fedex them to her at work. she called me friday night for the first time in 3 weeks and siad "this is you fault" and hung up, then called back and said" i wished you would of just killed me it wouldnt of hurt as bad as this" and hung up. she calle dagain saturday and hung up, THEN yestrerday evenig faxed me a list of the 10 commandment swith ultimatum, i had 24 hours to write her back with a letter explaining my affairs, including phone and internet sex. i wrote a four page letter to her and will fax it to her as she requested today at 2:47 pm my time, exacty 24 hours after her request. i vented about things that happened to me 20 years ago, and basically told her in the beginning, that some things would hurt, but she requested the letter. i have a condo and bus ptnr here in philly. i want to go back to las vegas, but dont want to force her. both her and the OW tossed me and I actually believed that the OW would think i would come groveling back to her. i have not signed on with the exception of visiting the MB website and have told my wife so in the letter. she wanted for me at first to be honest and stop the affair, and i tild her i did, but i didnt and couldnt, didnt want to...only thru their scheme was it ended, and for that i thank God. they did what i couldnt. im dilligently working on my problems seeing a counselor, a follow up support group, church and weekly prayer meetings. she called me last night and accused me of having her car broken into and called me a f---ing liar when i denied it. i asked her if she wanted me to finish the truth letter or was it just a game with her, she said that i could do whatever i wanted to do and i said i wanted to finish it. THEN she called me at 3:30am this morning and apologized for accusing me of messing with the car, she was crying, we spoke for a few minutes then she hung up. thanks for all your advice. i wished i could post my 4 page letter for you guys. thanks and keep praying